29 replies to this topic

[Marcor]

During the 24 H of Belgium in 1929 (at Francorchamps), one of the famous and fastest Belgium driver at the time was killed, trying to make up the lost after a collision with an other car. That 39-year man was Frédéric-Charles Charlier, known as Freddy Charlier.

In 1931 Arthur Duray, driving a Sport 1100 cc BNC, won his class at the same 24 H. He shared the car with a driver often named Charlier. Who was the latter ? Certainly not the poor Freddy. But who else ? Maybe a Belgian motorbiker also called Charlier. I was trying to look for the first name in motorcycling magazines until I came across an umpteenth report of the 1931 24-Hour edition. In the article it was mentioned of Charrier and not Charlier. Firstly I though it was a mispelling. Then I saw Charrier again. Then I met the initial C. in front of the name Charrier.

My investigation was close to succeed when I checked once again in the Black book. In page 305 (last but one race report) of Volume 2, I saw that Charles Charrier drove a BNC 527 in the 1931 Comminges GP, 1100 cc class. It fits !

I must report that some books about Francorchamps and some websites indicate Charlier as codriver of Arthur Duray (yes an other source of confusion with the US driver "Léon Duray").

Other confusion: Jacques Ledure (Belgium), also known as "Elgy", "Eljy" and Jérôme Ledur (France), Salmson driver.

[Jimmy Piget]

According to the Chimay book, Jérôme & Jacques Ledure were brothers.

[Marcor]

I have found two other mentions of Mister Charrier:
1)- Argenteuil Hillclimb 1930, 1st 1100 cc racing cars class
2)- 6 Heures des Routes pavées, 13 September 1931, 1100 cc racing car class (in the entry list, result unknown).
In both events he drove a BNC...

I'm very sceptical about the brotherhood link between Jacques Ledure and Jérôme Ledur (without final E !!)

[Marcor]

Mister Charrier (Charier, Charié) also at Le Mans in 1931, driving a Lombard 1097 cc. Codriver Camille Royer, DNF (oil pressure).

Lombard was taken over by BNC in 1928 and BNC stopped in 1931.

spelling Charrier: Serge Pozzoli in L'Album du Fanatique, Volume 7 (picture of the car)
spelling Charier: all the websites including the results of the race
spelling Charié: book "Cinquante 24 Heures du Mans 1923-1982" (published by the ACO).

He was presumed to be Frenchman.

[Hans Etzrodt]

A driver named Charié drove in the 1931 24-Hours at Le Mans, where he share a 1097 cc Lombard with Royer. [Edmond Cohin, p 196 and Hodges: Le Mans book p 30.]

[Marcor]

Maybe I'm Stubborn or just determined...

I've noted down all about the appearences of my mystery driver at the 1931 24-Hourof Le Mans in the newspaper "Les Sports"and it's not really conclusive, it's in fact more confused...

1)- first entry list published (20 May 1931): #30 Charlier + X (car not declared).
2)- Monday 8 June 1931: entry list included #30 Lombard 1097 cc, Charrier and Roger.
3)- Saturday 13 June 1931: last entry list before the race, #30 Lombard 1097 cc, Charier, Royer.
4)- Monday 15 June 1931 (just after the race), DNF Lombard 1097 cc #30, Charier and Royer.

And yet, the 24-Hour of Le Mans is a well-informed event.

[Barry Lake]

Sorry if I am heading off at a bit of a tangent here, but this seems like the ideal time to clear up a little mystery I have.

I have a note (with no source credited) that a Robert Charlier was killed at Spa-Francorchamps in 1919 (no day or month provided).

Is this another Charlier, or has someone got both the year and the first name wrong?

And, in any case, could Marcor please supply a day and month for the 1929 race in which Freddy Charlier was killed.

Something in my head is trying to tell me that Charlier is one of the people commemorated by a stone marker somewhere around the old circuit. Is this correct? I once stopped and photographed those I could find, but would not know where to find the photos right now.

[Marcor]

Freddy Charlier died during the first hours of the 24-Hours of 1929. The day was Saturday 6 July. And yes you're correct about the memorial stone which is at the foot of the grandstand. He crashed at Masta and was killed instantly.

[Marcor]

The picture was originally posted in the German forum.

[Barry Lake]

Thanks Marcor. But what about "Robert Charlier"? Was there no such person?

I hadn't noted the source of this information, but I am beginning to think it came from THAT now infamous fatalities list that had so many glaring errors.

[Marcor]

If you have read somewhere that a Robert Charlier was killed at Spa-Francorchamps in 1919 (no day or month provided), and if it provided from this list, yes it contains at least 2 errors. The circuit was first used in 1921, so error in the date is clear (1929 not 1919). The second error is the first name, not Robert (forget it) but Freddy (or Frédéric-Charles, his real first names).

Where can I see the fatalities list ?

I've never seen a Robert Charlier in my sources.

[David McKinney]

My records, too, state that the first Spa meeting was in 1921, not 1919
However, there was a fatality at that meeting, when André Boillot crashed a works GP Talbot (ie Sunbeam), IIRC in the asociated hillclimb, killing his passenger. I don't have the name of that unfortunate man. Could it have been Robert Charlier?

[Marcor]

The 1921 inaugurating meeting of the Francorchamps-Malmédy-Stavelot circuit was in fact a motorbike meeting.

The Spa Meeting - whose winner received the Cup of the newspaper La Meuse - included a 500 m sprint and the Malchamps hill (5 km) to climb three times.

André Boillot took part in this meeting, driving a 3 L Talbot-Darracq GP. In the Malchamps trial, he was the last to compete. He had not his usual riding mechanics as passenger but René Eycken, from Brussels, the Belgian importator of Talbot. When it was the time of the start, it was suddenly raining heavilly. Now the tyres were inedequate but Boillot decided to start at all costs. He stepped on it and drove as fast as possible. At the first corner the car skidded and hit a tree then an other. Boillot was thrown out of the car. Eycken was crushed under the impact between the tree and the car. A 20 m-high flame shot up, the tank had just exploded. Eycken who was stretched out on the remains of the car was burnt alive. The rescuers couldn't help him. Boillot was alive but seriously hurt (his jaw was broken and he had numerous bruises).

[Barry Lake]

Originally posted by Marcor
If you have read somewhere that a Robert Charlier was killed at Spa-Francorchamps in 1919 (no day or month provided), and if it provided from this list, yes it contains at least 2 errors. The circuit was first used in 1921, so error in the date is clear (1929 not 1919). The second error is the first name, not Robert (forget it) but Freddy (or Frédéric-Charles, his real first names).

Where can I see the fatalities list ?

I've never seen a Robert Charlier in my sources.

Believe me, you don't want to see the list! It had many unbelievably bad mistakes in it.

Stefan Ornerdal once had the dreaded list on his web site but had so many complaints he deleted it. Stefan said he even had examples of people contacting him to say they'd just seen one of the "fatalities" walking down the street! The person who created it has not been from around here for some time now. My mistake was not to always note the source when I added dates and information from it; otherwise I could easily just delete all that had emanated from that source. Now, I might be years gradually getting rid of such things as "Robert Charlier". I can understand how someone can hit a "1" key, when intending to hit the "2" (although I don't see how they could do it so often and apparently never check their typing), but I don't understand how someone can "invent" a first name for a person, especially when it isn't even the same initial. This is only one of many such examples.

Are you able to give us dates for those two meetings you mentioned? That's the Francorchamps-Malmédy-Stavelot motorbike meeting and the Spa event at which André Boillot crashed. I could probably find the Spa date, given time, but it's much easier for me if you already know it. Thanks.

[David McKinney]

The first Belgian Grand Prix was planned for 21 August 1921
When it was abandoned, a 500m sprint and the Spa-Malchamps hillclimb were held instead. I presume these events took place on the 21/8 weekend - the sprint was held on the first day and the hillclimb on the second. I'm not sure where the motorcycle racing fitted in.
And thanks Marc for providing the name of Boillot's passenger - the Robert Charlier thing was a long-shot guess and can now be eliminated

[Marcor]

The now called Francorchamps circuit had to be inaugurated by the GP de Belgique de la FMB and the GP du RACB. The FMB = Belgian motorbike Federation, The RACB = Royal Automobile Club de Belgique.
The coupled event was planned for Friday 12 (the motorbikes) and Saturday 13 August 1921.

Only the FMB GP was held - at the originally date. The RACB cancelled his race because at the closing admission date the entry list contained only 1 line: Leon Derny and his Imperia-Abadal. The planned race was a real GP, with the same rules as the ACF GP, ie 3 L capacity, at least 800 kg. The race was International, by invitation, opened to constructors of the member countries of the SDN (Germany was excluded). Each constructor could enter 5 cars at the most. The cancellation of the race was announced in May.

The Spa meeting was an other affair. The RACB had nothing to do with it. Usually it was organised by the local Automobil Club (The RAC of Spa) but this year it was done together with the Automobile Club de Namur-Luxembourg, and the meeting lasted 5 days. Some competitors just took part in the Spa part of the meeting (days 2, 3 and 4).

1st day, Saturday 27 August at Namur: the preliminaries (checking of the cars) + breaking and acceleration runs (400 m sprint) + exhibition of the cars + ...
2nd day, Sunday 28 August, the competitors went to Spa (touristic drive). At Spa gymkhana.
3nd day, Monday 29 August, on more serious matter, 500 m flat sprint at Malmédy.
4th day, Tuesday 30 August, the main event, the Malchamps hill to climb three times.
5th day, Wednesday 31 August, back to Namur (touristic drive)...

Boillot and Eycken crashed Tuesday 30 August 1921 around 10.15 am. The place of the accident was called "virage de la Ferme Delhougne". After the crash the Malchamps event was stopped, the second and third climbs were cancelled !

In September 18, The Automobile Club de Namur-Luxembourg organised his own meeting (sprint and hillclimb) in the area of Dinant and Ciney.

[humphries]

After a few weeks of perusing the Nostalgia Forum I have decided to dip an old toe into hopefully tepid water and make a contribution.

When I saw the name Charrier I immediately thought Christian not Charles. Although Charrier did race occasionally in 1930/1931 I had an inkling that he had raced more often, and with some success, earlier on. Therefore I decided to see if I could prove that Charrier was a Christian and not a Charles and provide the race statistics. Little did I realise how events would unfold.

First off I checked my records for 1926 and came up with nothing. So on to 1927 which provided the following:-

18 July Copa Guipuzcoa,S.Sebastien Christian Lombard AL1 retired

(Moto-Auto, a Spanish magazine)

14-15 Aug. GP de Paris (24 Heures) Christian/ Royer Lombard AL2 3rd overall

(Various French journals. This Royer I contend is the same Camille Royer that later was to drive with Charrier (Charier, Charie) at Le Mans in 1931)

18 Sept. C. Routes des Pavees Christian Lombard AL2 4th overall

( Le Grand Echo, a local Lille newspaper)

The 1928 Season.

8 April GP d’Antibes Guy Lombard AL3 non-starter

( Auto-Moto Sports de la Cote d’Azur state just the name Guy. In the Black Book, however, the name is Christopher Guy. An odd name for a Frenchman or was he an English ex-pat or of dual nationality like Williams or Bret? And why, after successful
drives in 1927, wasn’t Christian entered? In my 1927 files I could find no record of any guy called Guy racing anywhere. True, it was possible in those days to get a drive overnight especially if you were reasonably competent and did it for free or, better still, paid for the privilege. Some things don’t change much!)

17 May Six Heures de Bourgogne ( 2 hour race for motorcycles, a 4 hour for cars)
Guy Lombard AL3 4th in class

( In La Revue Mensuelle de l’AC de Bourguignon it just stated Guy but in the Black Book it is Christopher Guy again. A little alarm bell began to ring.)

16-17 June 24 Heures du Mans Sabipa/ Christian Itala retired

(According to the preview in Autocar it was Sabipa and Christian but according to the preview in The Motor it was Sabipa and Charrier. I believe they were both right! Also the works Lombard was entered but driven by Desvaux / Goutte. Why wasn’t Christopher Guy driving? Hopefully you are getting my drift. I contend that Guy was Christian. Charrier would not be the first driver to use two pseudonyms.)

1 July GP de l’ACF, Comminges Guy Lombard AL3 4th in heat
8th in final

(Various French periodicals have Guy and the Black Book Christopher Guy.)

8 July GP de la Marne Guy Lombard AL3 accident

(Now my records from years and years ago, before I acquired a photocopier, were copied by hand, a scrawl, and I have written down Christian Guy which looks horribly like Christopher Guy. Doh!! Why you little ……..bell!! Probably you are thinking what I am thinking. In my defence I will claim I was always most particular with the spellings when I sent information to Paul, all those years ago. We always dealt with contemporary material but usually recognised contemporary mistakes. Maybe Christopher came from my blip or maybe Paul knew something I didn’t know, which was quite likely.)

15 July GP von Deutschland Christian Charrier Lombard AL3 retired

(The entry list in AAZ clearly gives the name in full; his residence as Paris. There is no doubt that Christian is the first name of Charrier and I am convinced that Charrier and Christian are one and the same. Charrier’s team-mate in the other works Lombard was the famous Andre Morel. But where was Guy? He could have been in hospital; possibly his accident at Reims was serious. Maybe Charrier was invited back into the team to replace Guy but, m’lud, the entry list appeared in AAZ ( 7 July) before Guy had had his accident! The entry must have been made even earlier. Maybe the German entry form required real names only. Circumstantial evidence is indicating that Guy and Christian Charrier were also the same driver.)

29 July GP de Espana, S.Sebastien Christian Lombard AL3 4th overall

(British, French and Spanish references all use that name.)

9 Sept GP de Boulogne Christian Lombard AL3 non-starter

(British and French references and the Black Book agree.)

15 Sept C, Routes des Pavees Christian Lombard AL3 4th overall

(Grand Echo)

In 1929 it seems Charrier had a break from racing except for one race.

26 May GP de Champagne, Troyes Christian Charrier Bugatti 3rd in class

(The Tribune de l’Aube stated,” Une victoire de Christian Charrier, en 2 litres, ne nous etonnerait pas, bien que Bouchez desire lui tenir la dragee haute”. Bouchez was down to drive in the same class. Charrier obviously had problems and finished way down the order but having competed in national Grands Prix and Le Mans it is not surprising that he was considered a pre-race favourite. Interestingly Andre Morel, Charrier’s team-mate in the 1928 German GP, was Guest of Honour. I wonder if Charrier’s only racing appearance of the year was linked to Morel’s attendance?


In 1930 it does appear that Charrier only put in one appearance.

30 March Cote d’Argenteuil Charrier BNC 1st in class

(Was this car a newer BNC or his trusty Lombard AL3 now referred to as a BNC?)

In 1931 he returned to his old stamping grounds, so it would appear.

13-14 June 24 Heures du Mans Charrier / Camille Royer Lombard retired

(Times were hard and many in motor racing had fallen by the wayside. Charrier obviously had the warewithall to make a private entry with an old mate, apparently using his old car. The spelling of Charrier, Charier and Charie is probably down to simple human error. The convivial atmosphere was not always conducive to factual reportage, the crackling telephone lines created communication problems, the usual typing mistakes (no spellcheckers then!), the printers adding their bit of confusion and later historians potboiling the whole lot - little wonder there are discrepancies!)

4-5 July 24 Heures, Spa Charrier/ Arthur Duray BNC 13th overall

(Again my records go back to when I was copying my hand from French journals. In more recent publications the name Charlier has appeared but I think this is just a typo. Where the Robert has come from, I know not. Of course someone may know better.)

16 Aug. GP du Comminges (1100cc) Charrier BNC 4th

(Again my hand written notes just record Charrier. Possibly the abbreviation Ch. appeared in another report and that usually means Charles but it has been used to mean Christian. In Britain Geo is used to denote George and in the same way Chr. is the usual abbreviation for Christian but also for Christophe and Christopher! We are back to Christopher Guy again and almost full circle. Somewhere along the line there has been a misinterpretation. Maybe it wasn’t my blip over Christopher. In my files there is no record of a Charles Charrier.)

13 Sept. C. Routes des Pavees Charrier BNC non-starter

( The Grand Echo has Charrier in the entry list not Charlier. The reporting in this local paper over the years was always detailed and accurate. The recent Spa spelling can probably be dismissed.)

Did he race in other events? I would never claim that this list is now complete. Did he race in 1932 and beyond? I do not think so but I do not have the time to do a thorough check. If anybody has additional information on Charrier from contemporary or reliable sources I would appreciate a photocopy.

What does all this prove besides the researching of motor racing history is both fascinating and frustrating, littered with pitfalls and very time consuming!

I think it proves the following:-

1) Charrier’s first name was Christian not Charles. The evidence I think is clear cut.
2) Christian Charrier raced as Christian. The evidence is overwhelming.
3) It is probable that Guy and Christian were also the same person. The evidence is circumstantial but I can find no reference to Guy ever racing against Christian or either of them racing against Charrier. This suggests that all three were one and the same. Perhaps his name was Christian Guy Charrier! Unless a relative or a family friend can be traced we will never know for sure. How many people even care?

Some of you may wonder why discrepancies like the above were allowed to creep into the Black Books and were not picked up before publication. The reason was because Paul and us willing helpers all had demanding jobs and families to feed. Not only was it necessary to compile the list of the races that were to appear in the Black Books but also to check out handicaps, hillclimbs and sports car races in an attempt to collate and confirm the spellings of surnames and ascertain car types where possible. Even as a humble researcher it took ages; how Paul found time to put it all together I’ll never know. Quite rightly Paul insisted on meeting deadlines, ready or not, or the Black Books would never have seen the light of day. Since publication and the addendum a significant amount of new information has emerged and does so continually. My apologies for causing more defacement of your Black Book Vol. 2.

[Marcor]

Incredible first post !!!!!!!!

Bravo and many thanks !!!

I had to make some updates in my data ! I don't know why I had not noticed the 1928 German GP. In fact, I had Charlier (with a big ?) or Christian, retiring (Lombard)... I should not be Charlier (once again a tipo error in my source, I presume).

Do you know anything about "Raph" and his first 2 appearances in the 24 H at Spa ?His bio says he took part in this race in 1932 and 1933. The entry list and results indicate the pair GILBERT and ROBAIL driving in 1932 the Amilcar C6 registered 7080 RD2 #80 and in 1933 the Rally #24. I'm sure one of them was "Raph"...
link with the thread "Raph": http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=52626

[Pils1989]

Originally posted by Marcor
The picture was originally posted in the German forum.

Ahhhh i finally discover who's that driver... i've always wondered what was that memorial about when i go to Spa.
Thank you, Marcor

Toine

[Marcor]

Guy and Christian the same person ?

The entry list of the 1928 ACF GP I've found in a newspaper dating from 1928 gave
#88, Christian, Lombard
#90, Guy, Lombard

Guy was finishing 3rd in the qualifying heat and 7th in final, but no trace of Christian in the results. So in spite of two different numbers in the list, It could be the same person...

I've Christian (Lombard #17), Racing car 1100 cc class, in the entry list of the Meeting des Routes Pavées (Marcq-en-Baroeuil), 15 September 29.

Humphries, You said: "Unless a relative or a family friend can be traced we will never know for sure. How many people even care?".
maybe just me or some people in TNF !!!

You quote La Tribune de l'Aube as source for the 1929 GP de Champagne at Troyes. Hans is desperatly searching for infos about the Torvilliers (Troyes) races. Do you know more about the 1929, 1930 and 1932 races there ? Do you know if I can read this newspaper in the Bibliothèque François Mittérand at Paris (the National French Library) ?

[Barry Lake]

Originally posted by Marcor

Humphries, You said: "Unless a relative or a family friend can be traced we will never know for sure. How many people even care?".
maybe just me or some people in TNF !!!

I care!

[Jimmy Piget]

Originally posted by humphries
An odd name for a Frenchman or was he an English ex-pat or of dual nationality like Williams or Bret?

Hi, John

I must inform that James Bret did not enjoy a dual nationality : he was definitely French, heir of a healthy hotelier family in Cannes.
The first name "James" is sometimes given to babies in France and does not induce another nationality.
(My source : a letter from the son of James Bret)

[Indy501]

Marcor,

The fatalatie list almost up to date (as I know there are probably lots of errors), but the list is compiled on data i gathered here at TNF and from the internet and racingbooks. The aim now should be to get the fatalaties confirmed by newspaper clippings, articles, photo's, you the lot.

I'm now converting my excel list into a access database. If you are interessted I will send you the list on monday, it should be completed (I know it never will be fully complete and correct) and then the search for confirmations can start.

Greetings.

[Geoff E]

Originally posted by Marcor
Other confusion: Jacques Ledure (Belgium), also known as "Elgy", "Eljy"

Presumably the nicknames were phonetic forms of the initials "LJ" and the French/Belgian practice of putting the surname first.

[humphries]

Hello Jimmy

I must be letting age catch up with me!

The Bret that I made brief reference to was not a James but an Edward, I think, or perhaps Edward James Bret. Edward is still an English name.

The reason I thought he had connections with England was because there was a short article, or it may have been a letter to the editor, about him in either The Motor or The Autocar. It extolled Bret's ability as a driver and the fact that he was so young, about 18, I think. I'm fairly certain it stated he was an Englishman who resided in a hotel in Cannes, which when I read it made me wonder what a teenager was doing racing cars and living in a hotel! Hotel Anglais!?

I suppose now I will have to think of him with a silent "t".

I would be very interested to know what his son had to say about him; he disappeared from the scene and I've not heard what happened to him. I suppose he became a hotelier.

Cheers, John

[Marcor]

If you want to know more about the brief career of Edward Bret, I recommend the book of Antoine Raffaëlli, "Archives d'une passion". We learn that the young Edward Bret started racing at the age of 17, driving a 2-litre Georges Irat sportcar. He was the son of the owner of the "Hôtel des Anglais" at Cannes, a luxury well-known hotel. When he was 19, Edward Bret bought a Bugatti T37 (racing car). He was 20 when he took delivery of the Bugatti T35C serial number 4855, on 2 June 1927. At the end of the 1929 season, he stopped racing and traded off his Bugatti against a plane in England.

I've tried to compile his career records of Edward Bret, please correct or complete !

1925 and 1926, Georges Irat 2-litre
11 January 1925, Falicon, hillclimb, Touring car 2-litre, 1st class,
14 March 1925, Nice (promenade des Anglais), 1 km flying sprint, Touring car 2-litre, 2nd class,
15 March 1925, La Turbie, Hillclimb, Touring car 2-litre, 3rd class,
21 March 1925, Monaco Mi-Coriche, hillclimb, Touring car 2-litre, 1st class
22 March 1925, Mont-Agel, hillclimb, Sport car 2-litre (?), 1st class
26 March 1925, Esterel, hillclimb, Touring car 2-litre, 1st class, 2nd overall,
05 April 1925, Le Camps, hillclimb, Touring car 2-litre, 2nd class,
20 September 1925, Circuit des Routes pavées, Georges Irat, Touring car 2-litre, entered, result not known,
20 February 1926, Monaco Mi-Corniche, hillclimb, Touring car 2-litre, 3rd class,
21 February 1926, Mont Agel, hillclimb, Touring car 2-litre, accident,
28 February, Cannes Meeting, including 500 m sprint + Esterel, Touring car 2-litre, 1st class,

1927, Bugatti T37 racing car 1.5-litre
09 March 1927, Coupe de Monte-Carlo, Moyenne Corniche Monaco, 1st class,
10 March 1927, Mont Agel, hillclimb, 1st class, won the Rolfo Cup,
12 March 1927, Nice La Californie, hillclimb-sprint 1100 m, 2nd class,
15 March 1927, La Turbie, hillclimb, 2nd class,
20 March 1927, Esterel, 1st class, 2nd overall,
20 March 1927, Cannes La Croisette 500 m, 1st class,
25 July 1927, GP de San Sebastien, 5th overall
24 June 1928, GP Bugatti, Le Mans, 9th heat 1, DNQ final *,
07 July 1929, GP de la Marne, DNA **
22 August 1929, GP de la Baule, Entered, result not known,

*: entered by René Bret, from Paris.
**: according Paul Sheldon, James Bret.

1927 to 1929, Bugatti T35C 4855 racing car 2-litre
12 June 1927, Circuit des Gattières, 1st overall,
03 August 1927, Montrejeau, hillclimb, 1st overall,
07 August 1927, GP du Comminges (Handicap race), Entered, result not know,
02 October 1927, Val de Cuech, hillclimb, 1st overall,
06 November 1927, L'Hôpital, hillclimb, 1st overall,
27 November 1927, La Californie, hillclimb, 1st overall,
29 January 1928, Course du Boulevard Michelet à Marseille, 1st overall,
01 April 1928, Circuit de La Riviera, Cannes, 1st qualifying heat + 2nd overall + FL,
09 April 1928, GP d'Antibes Juan-Les-Pins, DNF,
29 April 1928, Les Alpilles, hillclimb, 1st overall,
01 April 1929, GP d'Antibes Juan-Les-Pins, DNA,
07 April 1929, Circuit de La Riviera, Cannes, 1st overall.

Two more things about Edward Bret after his racing career:
He was involved in Yachting: see http://perso.wanadoo...esentation2.htm

He flew: see http://www.geocities...ing_flight.html

[Hans Etzrodt]

Marc, I am speechless.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by humphries
...Some of you may wonder why discrepancies like the above were allowed to creep into the Black Books and were not picked up before publication. The reason was because Paul and us willing helpers all had demanding jobs and families to feed. Not only was it necessary to compile the list of the races that were to appear in the Black Books but also to check out handicaps, hillclimbs and sports car races in an attempt to collate and confirm the spellings of surnames and ascertain car types where possible. Even as a humble researcher it took ages; how Paul found time to put it all together I’ll never know. Quite rightly Paul insisted on meeting deadlines, ready or not, or the Black Books would never have seen the light of day. Since publication and the addendum a significant amount of new information has emerged and does so continually. My apologies for causing more defacement of your Black Book Vol. 2.

John – I think that the Black Books are still of unparalleled importance and of highest value. AFAIK, there has been nothing remarkable published since that would supersede Paul Sheldon's work. I am talking here only about Volume 1 to 4, which is all I ever wanted to know. Yes, there are omissions and errors. So, what?
I still think Paul should have been knighted for his dedication and contribution or at least receive otherwise appropriate recognition for his work helped by the F1 Register group.

[Marcor]

I've briefly mentioned in my special 1000th post thread a motorbiker called Charrier who took part in the Picardie and Torvilliers races in 1933. Well it's not Christian Charrier, as the initial of his first name was "A". This man was an independant driver affiliated to the MCF.

[Nanni Dietrich]

About the 1929 24 Hours of Spa, held on 06/07 July 1929, according to Italian newspaper Il Messaggero di Roma issue 08 July 1929 after the fatal crash of Charlier's Bugatti (called by newspaper Charles Charlier) another fatality happened, when an unknown driver went off the road and hit a group of policemen killing one of them and injurying three.

Winners of the race were Attilio Marinoni-Robert Benoist in a Alfa Romeo, first of 2000cc class, 2433,260 kms, average speed 101,600 km/h.
Winners of the categories:
5000cc class - Stoffel-Rossignol (Chrysler) 2188,200 kms
3000cc class - Gouvion-Svalens (Lancia) 2288,540 kms
1500cc class - George Eyston-Boris Ivanovsky (Alfa Romeo) 2407,015 kms
1000cc class - Duray-Laly (Aries) 1921,900 kms