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Arnoux in France, 1982


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#1 isynge

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 12:44

In this week's article on Renault in F1 (http://www.atlasf1.c...n22/okeefe.html ) Thomas O'Keefe comes across to my eye as being highly critical of Arnoux for not adhering to team orders and giving way to Prost.

For me this was one of the highlights of the 1982 season. Arnoux, leading his home Grand Prix, time after time passing the pit board instructing him to let Prost through reinforced his image as a true character in the sport and, I seem to recall, went quite some way to endear himself to the Tifosi who greeted his win at Monza that year ecstatically, seeing him as an heir to Giles as a flamboyant spectacular driver.

So... was Arnoux right or wrong on that day? And does it change the way people think about his F1 career?

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#2 mikedeering

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 13:39

From my limited knowledge of the incident I would say he was wrong. If only because as I understood it, he had agreed with Prost and Renault to assist Alain's bid for the WDC prior to the race. So he went against his word. Had he not agreed to move over in advance, I would probably have more sympathy with him since I am no fan of team orders.

#3 Tim Murray

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 23:08

If Arnoux broke an agreement to help Prost, then he deserves condemnation. On the other hand, the situation was rather different to that, say, of Pironi and Villeneuve at Imola. Arnoux was some 20 seconds ahead of Prost in the closing stages of the race. What was he supposed to do - stop for a cup of coffee? Imagine the furore if Barrichello had surrendered a 20 second lead to Schumi last year.

Also, the implication that Prost was in contention for the championship is a bit optimistic. Going into the race he had 19 points to Pironi's 35, and had scored only 1 point in the previous eight races. He certainly didn't look like a championship contender at that stage.

#4 David M. Kane

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Posted 23 January 2003 - 23:44

Tim...how many seconds did Rubens give up at Austria? What's the difference
than a clear 5 or so seconds to 20 seconds? Is it NOT the same principle?
Or am I missing something?

Arnoux was from a working class background so most of the "other" French
F1 drivers treated him very badly. Having met Alain Prost at the first
GP I can personally assure you he is world class jerk. Just look at how
he butchered his own F1 for the sake of his own ego.

That does NOT, however, give the man the right to go back on an agreement.

I was totally stunned when it was recently announced that he had been talking to Jaguar F1. What was that all about?

#5 Tim Murray

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Posted 24 January 2003 - 00:21

The principle is the same, obviously, and any application of team orders devalues the sport. My point was that, if you are going to execute team orders, it's a lot easier for the driver in front to feather the throttle and let the car on his tail go past (as in Austria 2002), than to somehow get rid of a lead of 20 seconds.

#6 ghinzani

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:02

Arnoux was from a working class background so most of the "other" French
F1 drivers treated him very badly.


Any ideas what the form of this mistreatment took?


#7 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 08:57

Any ideas what the form of this mistreatment took?


I really think the argument that the French drivers treated Arnoux differently due to his 'working class' background, is urban myth and have no base in facts. If Arnoux was treated hard, must be due to his personality, manner when dealing with other drivers and teams, not because he was from a certain social class.

And is France not the country of egality anyway?

:cool:

#8 Gabrci

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 09:22

I only met Prost briefly a couple of times, but he always came across as a modest and nice man.

On team orders - I think an employee, whether a bank clerk, a postman or a racing driver is paid to serve the employer's interests.

#9 rallen

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 09:31

Did Arnoux suffer from not obeying team orders?

#10 Bruno

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 10:34

la meilleur chose que René Arnoux ai jamais fait en F1, après être venu chez Ferrari.
rester devant prost, puisqu'il était plus rapide.

#11 Chezrome

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 10:49


Jean Pierre Jabouille (first driver at Renault) went out of his way to help Arnoux when he came there. Everyone at Renault tried to do their best to make Arnoux feel at home, because he was shy and preferred to be at his farm with his dog (named... Lotus). The other French drivers thought that Arnoux was perhaps too shy to become a worldchampion, but they never mocked him for his modest background (Arnoux lived in a caravan for many years, his wife sold t-shirts).

The French public didn't dislike Arnoux, they just like Jacques Laffitte better, also more than Depailler, Pironi or Prost.

So this story about Arnoux being bullied by other French drivers... I never heard it and I think it is nonsense.


#12 seccotine

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:13

Considered a huge talent when he started racing, Arnoux won his first season in Formula Renault (1973), ahead of guys like Tambay or Pironi. Then he had en empty year in 74 (bad contracts with Lotus and Kitchiner) but he came back in 75 for the first year of FR Europe and won it (Pironi was behind again). Just to say he was obviously the rising star of French racing (Prost started only in 76) and his shy manners gained him most people's affection. If there was any bullying, it might have been from some specific individual but not from "the other French drivers".
He later became a mad dog, especially during his Ferrari days (girls!) but seems to have remained the nice and easygoing Néné the French audience liked.
He is still very popular today.

#13 isynge

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:46

After today's somewhat disappointing display at Hockenheim I can't help wishing that we still had someone of the character of Rene Arnoux around.

France 1982 still sticks in my memory, as an event that shaped a lot of what my then 10 year old mind thought about what motor racing should have been about.

Regardless of what agreements exist or what contracts say, I'd rather have seen an Arnoux like display than what we got from Massa - probably better for his career, but a lot worse for being inspiring.

#14 Amazin

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 02:39

After today's somewhat disappointing display at Hockenheim I can't help wishing that we still had someone of the character of Rene Arnoux around.

France 1982 still sticks in my memory, as an event that shaped a lot of what my then 10 year old mind thought about what motor racing should have been about.

Regardless of what agreements exist or what contracts say, I'd rather have seen an Arnoux like display than what we got from Massa - probably better for his career, but a lot worse for being inspiring.


Oh man you have no idea about the repercussion of what Massa did, here in his homeland Brasil...

For most people, today was the one year anniversary from his rebirth (after last year's freaky accident), and today is also the very same day he died in the hearts of millions of F1 fans in Brasil.

It's a shame.

Carlos

#15 Seebar

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 11:54

In this week's article on Renault in F1 (http://www.atlasf1.c...n22/okeefe.html ) Thomas O'Keefe comes across to my eye as being highly critical of Arnoux for not adhering to team orders and giving way to Prost.

For me this was one of the highlights of the 1982 season. Arnoux, leading his home Grand Prix, time after time passing the pit board instructing him to let Prost through reinforced his image as a true character in the sport and, I seem to recall, went quite some way to endear himself to the Tifosi who greeted his win at Monza that year ecstatically, seeing him as an heir to Giles as a flamboyant spectacular driver.

So... was Arnoux right or wrong on that day? And does it change the way people think about his F1 career?


It would be interesting to know whether Prost ever thought he was in a race. Piquet retired just before half-time, giving Arnoux the lead. Did Prost then stop charging, thinking Arnoux would let him pass anyway?

The cynic in me is trying to imagine how people would feel about Arnoux today, had his teammate been killed in qualifying two weeks later.

#16 Marc Sproule

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 13:06

Arnoux and Prost. Long Beach '82

http://www.flickr.co...57623186790747/

#17 Henri Greuter

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 13:18

It would be interesting to know whether Prost ever thought he was in a race. Piquet retired just before half-time, giving Arnoux the lead. Did Prost then stop charging, thinking Arnoux would let him pass anyway?

The cynic in me is trying to imagine how people would feel about Arnoux today, had his teammate been killed in qualifying two weeks later.




I think that another major factor with Rene was that all year long he had retirement after retirement so it was kind of easy to anticpate this trend to continue on and on again. And for his teammate it had been the near same other than the first two races....
I wonder how big he believed the chance was that it could actually come down to a 1-2 for Renault with him is such a big lead. How big were th odds on this to happen before the actual race?
And then, in your home race.....
being told to give up a lead in your homeland race....
One of the hardest moments ever for any driver to give up the lead I guess....


Henri


#18 eibyyz

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 01:30

After having gone through "JONES/REUT" the year before (and I was a huge Lole fan) by this time I was getting used to the idea of "Teammates When It Suits Them".

Sooner or later one driver is going to be injured in a shunt with their teammate.

Got to thinking, how about if a team finishes 1-2, both drivers split the points, as if they both finished in 1.5 place?