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Ayrton Senna - Macao 1985


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#1 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 09 February 2003 - 22:03

I found an interesting note in an old magazine a couple of days ago. It's a magazine from mid-1985, where the news that Ayrton Senna had agreed to race the Macao F3 race for Mauricio Gugelmin's team was presented. I can not recall that Senna raced at Macao in 1985, does anyone have more information about this?

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#2 jarama

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Posted 09 February 2003 - 22:33

According to my source there were a lot of non-regulars in Macao '85, as Mike Thackwell, René Arnoux, Roberto Guerrero, Jan Lammers, Johnny Dumfries, Emanuele Pirro or Christian Danner, but no hint of Senna.

Carles.

#3 WGD706

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Posted 09 February 2003 - 23:40

In 1983, the 30th Macau Grand Prix was another landmark year for the event with its nomination as the FIA Formula 3 World Cup. Strongly supported by Teddy Yip's Theodore Racing, a young Brazilian driver, then known as Ayrton Senna da Silva, took victory in this first Formula 3 Grand Prix. Senna was followed home by Roberto Guerrero and Gerhard Berger.

#4 fullcourseyellow

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Posted 10 February 2003 - 03:11

No, Senna was definitely not there.

Jarama, do you have info on the starting grid for that 85 race?

#5 maxie

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Posted 10 February 2003 - 03:33

Not the starting grid, only the classification for the top 10.

From http://www.formel3gu...com/dm/85em.pdf

24.11.1985 32.Macau Grand Prix
12+15 x 6,117 km = 165,159 km
1. Mauricio Gugelmin Ralt RT30 VW 27 1:05.17,08
2. Mike Thackwell Ralt RT30 VW 27- 9,53
3. Jan Lammers Ralt RT30 VW 27- 19,67
4. Roberto Guerrero Reynard 853 VW 27- 22,70
5. John Nielsen Ralt RT30 VW 27- 28,36
6. Rene Arnoux Ralt RT30 VW 27- 52,40
7. Volker Weidler Ralt RT30 VW 27- 52,93
8. Andy Wallace Reynard 853 VW 27- 1.03,14
9. Russell Spence Ralt RT30 VW 27- 1.06,45
10. Jo Gartner Ralt RT30 VW 27- 1.33,73

PP: Mauricio Gugelmin Ralt RT30 VW 2.23,19
SR:Mike Thackwell Ralt RT30 VW 2.22,91

#6 sat

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Posted 10 February 2003 - 04:49

Here is grid:

Mauricio Gugelmin 1. 02:23,190
Emanuelle Pirro 2. 02:24,030
Jan Lammers 3. 02:24,210
Mike Thackwell 4. 02:24,280
Martin Brundle 5. 02:24,830
Roberto Guerrero 6. 02:24,990
Ross Cheever 7. 02:25,050
Volker Weidler 8. 02:25,270
John Nielsen 9. 02:25,460
Jo Gartner 10. 02:25,500
Dave Scott 11. 02:25,500
Christian Danner 12. 02:25,820
Andy Wallace 13. 02:25,870
René Arnoux 14. 02:25,920
Johnny Dumfries 15. 02:25,980
Franco Forini 16. 02:25,980
Marco Apicella 17. 02:26,030
Didier Theys 18. 02:26,310
Kenny Acheson 19. 02:26,700
Russell Spence 20. 02:26,720
Fabrizio Barbazza 21. 02:26,860
Slim Borgudd 22. 02:26,960
Kris Nissen 23. 02:27,110
Pierre-Henri Raphanel 24. 02:27,330
Franz Konrad 25. 02:27,890
Adrian Campos 26. 02:28,760
Thomas Danielsson 27. 02:30,550
Aguri Suzuki 28. 02:31,160
Shuji Hyodo 29. 02:32,730
Hideshi Matsuda 30. 02:36,210

#7 AndreasF1

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Posted 10 February 2003 - 05:00

Man you guys are great! There is nothing that somone in this forum doesnt know about. By the way, could anybody tell me what Gugelmin and Arnoux had for breakfast? :lol:

#8 maxie

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Posted 10 February 2003 - 05:54

Petrol, I think. :rotfl:

#9 DOHC

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Posted 10 February 2003 - 18:38

No way, a small sip of castor oil is what does it... :rotfl: :lol: :rotfl:

#10 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 10 February 2003 - 20:39

As Carles mentioned, it was far from unusual that current GP drivers did take part in the Macau GP.
I remember beeing surprised about Stefan Johansson entering as late as 1984. He was already a F1 regular by that time, and hardly nothing could be gained by entering, you only risk your reputation if you don't finish in the top.

Jan Lammers was also one frequent visitor, he did his last Macau GP in 1988. And as you can see from the '85 grid, Slim Borgudd did the race as a 39-year old, and he regards the '84 as the race of his life.

Hard to see a F1 regular entering today.

#11 SB

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Posted 11 February 2003 - 03:29

Julian Bailey has raced in Macau F3 in late 80's also after he has become a F1 driver.

SB

#12 maxie

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Posted 11 February 2003 - 03:33

Winning the Macao race after becoming an F1 regular is even rarer. Only Patrese did it.

#13 Slyder

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 05:07

You're forgetting Takuma Sato ;)

#14 da Silva

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Posted 12 February 2003 - 15:09

Anyone know if the track layout has been changed since the beginning of 1980:ies?
Saw that Sennas average speed in -83 was beaten first in -89....

#15 SB

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Posted 13 February 2003 - 09:12

I dont have any information on hand right now, but I think it is quite impossible to any major layout changes since either the track is formed by the streets in middle of the hill or just at the harbour front - both have no alternative routes for changes AFAIK.

SB

#16 maxie

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Posted 13 February 2003 - 09:30

The Lisboa bend was somewhat modified in the early 90s. It was tightened up to ensure that there is only one good line entering the bend.

#17 maxie

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Posted 13 February 2003 - 09:37

Also, overtaking has been banned at the section leading up to and past the Hairpin around that time. It was done by placing a yellow flag at the hairpin throughout the race.

#18 Geza Sury

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Posted 13 February 2003 - 12:09

Originally posted by maxie
Also, overtaking has been banned at the section leading up to and past the Hairpin around that time. It was done by placing a yellow flag at the hairpin throughout the race.

A year before this measure had been introduced, overtaking was only forbidden on the very first lap.

#19 Woking

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Posted 13 February 2003 - 12:36

There are major amendments to the grand stand and the start/finish line.
To aviod traffic jam in the first left hander at the first lap the start/finish line have been dropped back for around half a mile.

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#20 maxie

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Posted 14 February 2003 - 00:41

Excuse me, Woking:

Before the start/finish line was moved, the first two bends are both right-handers (the Mandarin and the Lisboa). After the move, the first bend (the Reservoir) is a left-hander.

#21 da Silva

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 13:20

Here are the pole times from 1983 to 1990. According the the organicers there have been no racetrack changes during this time.

1983
Ayrton Senna
BR
West Surrey Racing/Theodore
Ralt-Toyota RT3
2m 22.02s

1984
Stefan Johansson
S
Eddie Jordan Racing/Theodore
Ralt-Toyota RT3
2m 22.95s

1985
Mauricio Gugelmin
BR
West Surrey Racing/Theodore
Ralt-VW RT30
2m 23.19s

1986
Stefano Modena
I
Euroteam Cipa
Reynard-Alfa Romeo 863
2m 22.41s

1987
Martin Donnelly
GB
Intersport
Ralt-Toyota TOM’S RT31
2m 24.34s

1988
Eddie Irvine
GB
West Surrey Racing/Theodore
Ralt-Alfa Romeo RT32
2m 22.60s

1989
Otto Rensing
D
Paul Stewart Racing
Reynard-Nova Alfa Romeo 893
2m 22.38s

1990
Mika Hakkinen
SF
West Surrey Racing/Theodore
Ralt-Mugen Honda RT34
2m 20.88s