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Ugliest road car of all time?


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#51 Geoff E

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 19:06

Originally posted by oldtimer
From a long while ago, and largely kept as a British home product, the Austin A35.


I saw a bent one yesterday that had been in collision with an ambulance I think. I think its contemporary, the Standard 8 was possibly a worse looker.

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#52 Racer.Demon

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 19:36

Tatra? Just "Tatra"?

Some of the thirties' Tatra luxury streamliners are true works of art, IMHO, and were well ahead of their time too, so type numbers please, Mark!

My votes go to practically all 80s sedan "stickertape-a-boot-on" conversions of small or medium-sized 3-door hatchbacks: from Corsa to Escort, from Jetta to Civic - there's no word to describe their utter miserableness. You can still see some leftovers of this type of misguided design, like the 4-door Skoda Fabia. Ghastly! And there is absolutely nothing wrong with the hatchback. Why is it so hard to design a handsome small sedan?

As for current cars, apart from anything from Korea - I'll go with René's Vectra but will raise him with the new Toyota Avensis. Looks like a bleeding Hyundai! A huge disappointment, that, from the same company that reinvented the Celica so well recently.

Oh, and the Multipla of the 2000s - the new Micra. Have to disagree here with Vitesse: these cars have been willingly designed. The trouble is that their designers didn't know when to stop designing! :lol:

#53 David Beard

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 19:41

I remember well Doug Nye saying that he thought of road cars as being as interesting as a Hoover, which I thought was a very correct way of viewing the things. For using in A to B mode, and all that. Racing cars, however, are works of art and worthy of discussion.

Oh, and by the way, I think the Fiat Multipla is the most imaginative piece of Automotive Design to be seen on our roads. I love it.

#54 Racer.Demon

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 19:45

Originally posted by David Beard
I remember well Doug Nye saying that he thought of road cars as being as interesting as a Hoover, which I thought was a very correct way of viewing the things. For using in A to B mode, and all that. Racing cars, however, are works of art and worthy of discussion.


So if we paint a starting number on a road car and get it into a race they can become works of art?

#55 David Beard

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 19:47

Originally posted by Racer.Demon


So if we paint a starting number on a road car and get it into a race they can become works of art?


Definitely not. :down:

#56 dretceterini

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 19:59

Richard:

Yes, that Boneschi bodied car is actually OK..a little over the top on the trim..but OK overall.

As to worst ever, the Aztec is FAR worse than the Multipla IMO..

#57 Racer.Demon

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 20:00

Originally posted by David Beard


Definitely not. :down:


That's an interesting view, David!

So sportscar and touring-car racing is not real racing, is it?


#58 dmj

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 20:07

Mattijs, thanks (or rather not) for reminding me of Opel Corsa sedan - surely a favorite for such a title! As well as last generation of Ascona, boxy one with that awful radiator grille... Blah!
I don't know if you are familiar with Renault Thalia, Turkey-built Clio sedan? Really bad looking.
It is strange that no one so far mentioned Marcos Mantis, Fairthorpe Atom or TX Tripper.
Than almost whole Talbot range from '80s.
Final De Sotos.
"Packardbakers"
But my vote without any doubt goes to whole range of Zimmers, Clenets, Excaliburs and other awful "retro" cars... Especially Zimmers!

#59 David Beard

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 20:22

Originally posted by Racer.Demon


That's an interesting view, David!

So sportscar and touring-car racing is not real racing, is it?



Of course they are. Even NASCAR is real racing

But only single seat open wheelers are pure, no compromise cars. (other than what the rule book does to mess them up) Their design is not compromised to involve the accommodation of ashtrays, hi fi systems, luggage space, large numbers of seats.

They are works of art in a special sense that road cars just can't match. I (or at least like to think I do) appreciate what the stylists of road cars try to do...at one time I seriously wanted to be one. But what the stylist envisions for a road going vehicle is rarely what finally appears on the streets. A racing car, whilst not usually created by a "stylist", at least always arrives uncorrupted.

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#60 Racer.Demon

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 20:34

Originally posted by David Beard
But only single seat open wheelers are pure, no compromise cars. (other than what the rule book does to mess them up) Their design is not compromised to involve the accommodation of ashtrays, hi fi systems, luggage space, large numbers of seats.

[...] But what the stylist envisions for a road going vehicle is rarely what finally appears on the streets. A racing car, whilst not usually created by a "stylist", at least always arrives uncorrupted.


I think we'd better agree to disagree here, David! :lol:

In my view, what a rule book does to a single-seater is exactly what ashtrays and luggage space do to road cars. An "uncorrupted" stylist's vision of a racing car would be the Ferrari Sigma (that would have failed the F1 rules) or Colani's original Eifelland (which failed as a racing car on all accounts). It's precisely the rule-book/market-demand compromise from which great (looking) and ingenious cars are born - the challenge (finding the loopholes) is the same for both road and track.

#61 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 20:45

Originally posted by Vitesse2


Aha - two simultaneous votes for the Multipla! But I refuse to believe it was "designed" :p



yeah it looks as though there was a slip of the pen regarding that eccentric bonnet! still looks very nice i think!

#62 David Beard

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 20:53

Originally posted by Racer.Demon


I think we'd better agree to disagree here, David! :lol:

In my view, what a rule book does to a single-seater is exactly what ashtrays and luggage space do to road cars. An "uncorrupted" stylist's vision of a racing car would be the Ferrari Sigma (that would have failed the F1 rules) or Colani's original Eifelland (which failed as a racing car on all accounts). It's precisely the rule-book/market-demand compromise from which great (looking) and ingenious cars are born - the challenge (finding the loopholes) is the same for both road and track.


Perhaps I am not putting my ideas over as well as I mean to...

I remember both cars you refer to well enough. The Sigma was a Farina creation? And Colani made a classic job of the Canon T90 SLR camera but should never have been allowed near a racing car.

However well a road car is designed it is still transportation's equivalent of the Hoover.
Can you imagine a version of TNF for domestic appliances? That's what a road car is.

#63 Racer.Demon

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 21:10

Originally posted by David Beard
Perhaps I am not putting my ideas over as well as I mean to...


No trouble there, David. I see your point in the race car designed for ultimate speed instead of safe transportation. I just disagree with your "race cars to the right and road cars to the left" approach when the automobile design apocalypse will arrive one day.

Originally posted by David Beard
However well a road car is designed it is still transportation's equivalent of the Hoover.
Can you imagine a version of TNF for domestic appliances? That's what a road car is.


I'm sure you'll find dozens of domestic appliances in the Conran Dictionary of Design. I know there are, I have the book here right beside me. Lots of road cars in there too. So I have no problem whatsoever imagining a TNF for all sorts of mass-production goods from the past.

And... I just don't think a road car is a Hoover.

#64 David Beard

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 21:29

Originally posted by Racer.Demon


No trouble there, David. I see your point in the race car designed for ultimate speed instead of safe transportation. I just disagree with your "race cars to the right and road cars to the left" approach when the automobile design apocalypse will arrive one day.



I'm sure you'll find dozens of domestic appliances in the Conran Dictionary of Design. I know there are, I have the book here right beside me. Lots of road cars in there too. So I have no problem whatsoever imagining a TNF for all sorts of mass-production goods from the past.

And... I just don't think a road car is a Hoover.


Racer.Demon...I concede that I have rather lost the drift of my own argument. However, I rather like the direction you have taken.

Can we discuss Raymond Loewy's 1935 "Coldspot" refrigerator, and how it compares with his Studebaker Avanti?

#65 rdrcr

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 21:38

Originally posted by David Beard
"... Can we discuss Raymond Loewy's 1935 "Coldspot" refrigerator, and how it compares with his Studebaker Avanti?"


Thank goodness that's over... :lol:

But regarding Lowey, IMHO, one of the great industrial designers of any age, should be in a separate thread and not in one of the "ugliest road cars".

Oh, and I think that was 1934, when he was commissioned by Sears to revamp their refrigerator

:p

#66 Racer.Demon

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 21:39

Originally posted by David Beard
Can we discuss Raymond Loewy's 1935 "Coldspot" refrigerator, and how it compares with his Studebaker Avanti?


:clap:

I'll pick a pack of Luckies over both of them ;)

Although I stopped smoking five or six years ago I was a Lucky Strike regular up until that moment. BAR did horrific things with that design, however. The 2003 car is the first I can actually bare looking at without an instant shudder through my spine.

But by moving over to, gulp, racing cars I'm getting way off-topic now :rotfl:

#67 Locai

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 21:43

How about anything and everything ever produced by AMC?

The Pacer was actually one of the less repulsive designs. The Gremlin was far worse.

There was an AMC that was a compact 4-door with 4-wheel drive that was just ridiculous looking. I think it may have been the "Spirit". This was not the forerunner of today's AWD cars. It was a true 4-wheel drive. This thing looked like somebody took the ugliest body they could find and put it on top of a 4-wheel drive mini pickup chassis. AWFUL!

From personal experience, I would like to nominate the Plymouth Volare' (complete with the "rich Corenthian Leather" seats). My dad had one that was painted brown. At least I think it was painted brown...the thing rusted so bad that it was hard to tell what was paint and what was rust. I thought that was the ugliest car ever until he replaced it with a white one!!! I've been scarred for life from that experience.

Some others that he's owned:

- a couple of Corvairs
- a Ford Pinto
- a Chevy Chevette
- an early 70's Ford station wagon complete with the woodgrain shelf paper on the sides (think of the Family Truckster from "National Lampoon's Vacation").

#68 Vitesse2

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 21:52

Originally posted by Racer.Demon
Tatra? Just "Tatra"?

Some of the thirties' Tatra luxury streamliners are true works of art, IMHO, and were well ahead of their time too, so type numbers please, Mark!


Hear hear!!

Originally posted by Racer.Demon
Oh, and the Multipla of the 2000s - the new Micra. Have to disagree here with Vitesse: these cars have been willingly designed. The trouble is that their designers didn't know when to stop designing! :lol:


A case of "too many cooks"? :)

#69 rdrcr

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 22:08

AMC produced a few very cool cars:

Posted Image
The Javelin,

Posted Image
The AMX,

and a sort of 67 Charger knock-off, the Marlin.
Posted Image


Though the previously mentioned Pacer, Gremlin, Matador, and their predecessors, (not including Lowey's work) the Rambler line, etc., etc... were awful. Though back in the 30's they had some rather nice designs. The '37 pickup was really a neat piece.

Some others have really come into the foreground as UGLY, those Bond cars, or I should say legalized golf carts, slipped my mind... and for good reason, they are truly forgettable.

#70 zango

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 22:28

The Plymouth Superbird:

Posted Image

#71 Roger Clark

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 22:51

I nominate most modern Ferraris and every Lamborghini since the Miura. Ugly monstrosities, trying and failing to look like racing cars, and not even practical road transport.

#72 antonvrs

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 23:04

Re: Tatras-
'20s and'30s Tatras=way cool.
Later Tatras=been whupped wit' a ugly stick.
I'd love to have a T11 or T12 Targa Florio Tatra racer but I'd be amazed if any have survived.
'49 thru '51 Nashes are so ugly they're kinda wonderful. same for mid'30s Chrysler and DeSoto Airflows.
They're far uglier than anything Chrysler made in the '50s.............er, wait a minute, ah, disregard that.
I just remembered '59, '60 and '61. Oh, well.
Anton

#73 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 23:06

Roger...

I'm sure you'll find it's 'Leowy' or something similar... and his designs were for Studebaker.

Of which the Avanti was acclaimed at the time... now it seems it's turned nasty on him.

#74 Joe Fan

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 23:09

Originally posted by Rob Semmeling
We have a winner, no contest at all:

http://www.fiat.nl/r...ges/foto_02.jpg

The designer must have been on crack or something when he draw that awfull nose.


Wow! That is an absolutely terrible design.

#75 Joe Fan

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 23:11

Originally posted by zango
The Plymouth Superbird:

Posted Image



BOOOOOOOOOOO! HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

The Superbird was an awesome design when it came out. This green color sucks and the car looks much better in Petty blue or black. I can see how someone might not like the design today but to me, it has a nostalgia feel to it along with a visual reminder of the power these cars possessed.

#76 Joe Fan

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 23:29

Originally posted by Locai

From personal experience, I would like to nominate the Plymouth Volare' (complete with the "rich Corenthian Leather" seats). My dad had one that was painted brown. At least I think it was painted brown...the thing rusted so bad that it was hard to tell what was paint and what was rust. I thought that was the ugliest car ever until he replaced it with a white one!!! I've been scarred for life from that experience.

- an early 70's Ford station wagon complete with the woodgrain shelf paper on the sides (think of the Family Truckster from "National Lampoon's Vacation").


LOL! This brings back memories of that stupid commerical for the Volare' where Ricardo Montalblan sings VoooLarrrrrre!

My very first car was a white 1969 Ford LTD station wagon with woodgrain siding, complete with a carburator burn on the hood. I agree, these beasts were ugly but when you were 16, it beat a bicycle.

#77 AndreasF1

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 23:39

What about the Trabant from East Germany?

#78 Simpson RX1

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 01:39

Now I'm a fan of all things American, particularly their cars, but the Fiat Multipla pales into insignificance against this abhoration.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you (drum roll)............


Chrysler Woody

What the hell were they thinking of?????

#79 dretceterini

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 03:08

I've actually seen a Pontiac Aztec with wood trim added here in Los Angeles. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

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#80 Wolf

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 04:08

Dear friends, I must warn you that link that will follow shortly reveals the horrors unseen in here, and if you have kids bid them leave the room before you click on it (which you will, naturally, do at own peril). A person who used to be my friend (resons will be self-explanatory upon clicking) sent me one of those photos.

Even if destuction od churches and cultural monuments in Croatia and Bosnia wasn't bad enough, our eastern neighbours have unleashed new horrors upon unsuspecting world, in form of 2002 concept sedan at the bottom of the page:

http://yugoworld.tri...zastava2002.htm

P.S. I'm glad DMJ already mentioned Excaliburs, and heartily second that nomination.

#81 MarkWill

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 04:08

Look, all you Fiat-bashers are just pathetic :evil: . The Americans have you all beaten roundly, and the Aztec is simply the butt-ugliest car EVER penned, so put aside all of your Fiats, Lancia's, Daimlers, Austin's, Tatra's (undeserved contenders in my opinion) Bond Bugs etc. . If anything, this thread has proven that the Americans have more experience in this field than any European car-producer. I nearly died laughing when I heard that there exists an Aztec woody (thank you dretceterini) - that should be enough to scare away even the most redoutable Conquistador from the Old Continent. I don't even know how you could go into a showroom and BUY an Aztec woody. Watch out for these cars as "instant draw" prizes in Lotteries and charities. So far, no contest.

#82 dretceterini

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 06:52

Mark:

Sorry to say that the Aztec woody is not a factory car, so you won't be able to buy one. You will have to do the conversion yourself.

This monstrosity was lemon yellow with light wood trim edged with dark wood trim. It also had enlarged wheel wells and big wheels and tires (20 inch?) and was lowered.

If you are really interested though, I can try and find it for you... :rotfl:

#83 eldougo

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 08:22

:) Geoff E (quote) It doesn't look that good in real life.

----------------------------------------------------------

THANKS FOR THE PHOTO . Geoff E . Now i know why we don,t buy FIATS out here, :down:

#84 Peter Morley

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 08:35

If we are talking modern (European) cars then as mentioned already:

Toyota Yaris Verso
Fiat Multipla
most of the new Renaults

Are all ugly monstrosities

BUT
I just saw the new BMW Z4 and what a mess that is - presumably the designer's guide dog was a fan of the TR7 (and current Ford's)!

As for old cars the AMC Pacer takes an awful lot of beating!

Being European I can't really comment on other American cars - sounds like we've been saved from some serious ugliness!

#85 Mark Beckman

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 09:00

Oh I'm in a real panic that the Tatra lovers will win here :rotfl:

Take your choice......

http://www.tatra.dem...ars-history.htm

#86 Mark Beckman

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 09:04

Originally posted by Racer.Demon


So if we paint a starting number on a road car and get it into a race they can become works of art?


Oh I might be gotten here, there is a T603 race car amongst that lot above

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Stop it I cant breathe.....

#87 BRG

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 10:27

A late nomination - the Morris Ital . The original Morris Marina saloon and coupe were uninspired but reasonably unexceptionable cars. However, BMC contracted the Ital Design agency to "update" them and the resulting mess was produced as the Ital - a hideous thing with tacky matt black add-on spoilers and so on. A disaster to look at (and by then hopelessly out-of-date technically as well)

Also could I nominate the Ferrari Testrossa - this must be Ferrai's biggest styling mistake to date, although the new Gonzo (er, sorry that should be Enzo) runs it close for ugliness. I beleive that they both go quite well, though!

#88 Garagiste

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 12:53

With you on all the "cheapies" and the Testarossa, but the Enzo and XJ220? Both rather nice, IMO.
One of my all time least favourites was the Matra / Talbot / Simca (I don't think anybody wanted to admit to it) Rancho. Soft Roader/ Tonka toy err, thing! What was it for? and did it really have to be that hideous?

http://perso.wanadoo...lbotrancho.html

#89 silver

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 12:55

IIRC Jermy Clarkson said in Top Gear :" Ford Scorpio, so heroically ugly, that even Ford dealers didnt drive with them since that would have been bad publicity!" :p

#90 bobbo

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 13:10

Markwill:

I will agree that there is a bit of FIAT-bashing going on, but they have recently produced some really, how shall I put it, "less than attractive" machinery. However, let's remind others that the 124 Spider and Coupe (even though they were rust disasters at least here in the USA) were absolutely delightful. And that X1/9: One seriously sexy car! And how about the 1600 roadster of the late '50s (??). THey were what the MGB SHOULD have looked like!

And for some reason, those TATRAs are beginning to look rather interesting.

Bobbo

#91 bill moffat

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 14:20

Originally posted by bobbo
Markwill:

I will agree that there is a bit of FIAT-bashing going on, but they have recently produced some really, how shall I put it, "less than attractive" machinery. However, let's remind others that the 124 Spider and Coupe (even though they were rust disasters at least here in the USA) were absolutely delightful.
Bobbo


Quite agree. Pininfarina got it spot-on when they designed the Fiat 124 derivatives and, arguably, the rare 130 Coupe.

I have a theory. Celebrating the success of these models the Pininfarina designers got terribly drunk. Whilst under the influence they jokingly drew a rough sketch of a bloated and out-of-perspective version of the 130 Coupe with impossibly small wheels and massive overhangs. The original elegant nose was replaced by a bluff cliff-face of a radiator grille.

As the morning tea was poured in the Design Office the drawing was pulled from a jacket pocket. Even in the midst of a dreadful collective hangover the commercial possibilities were explored.. Pig ugly yes, but this chianti-stained image had a certain aire of distinction and exclusivity about it ..who might be interested in it ??

Yes, ladies and gentleman the boys at Crewe loved it. We were presented with the Rolls Royce Camargue which, pound for expensive pound must take the prize for the most ugly car ever....

#92 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 15:27

Originally posted by Wolf
http://yugoworld.tri...zastava2002.htm


Always read the small print!

The 2002 model Zastava, It appears not to function.


Just like most Yugos then :rolleyes:

BRG: I owned an Ital for a while. It sure was ugly, but actually drove quite well. Mine was gold and I sold it on for more than I paid for it to a guy who claimed he was going to cut it up and turn it into a trike! I say "claimed", because a few months later I saw the same registration number on a red Ital ....

#93 Racer.Demon

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 15:31

Originally posted by Wolf
Even if destuction od churches and cultural monuments in Croatia and Bosnia wasn't bad enough, our eastern neighbours have unleashed new horrors upon unsuspecting world, in form of 2002 concept sedan at the bottom of the page:

http://yugoworld.tri...zastava2002.htm


Wolf, your hideous modern-day example is another graphic illustration of just how difficult it is to create a good-looking small sedan. And you don't have to be with Zastava to get it all wrong. (But having seen that, erm, thing :eek: , it does help!)

#94 TODave2

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 19:18

Yeah, but come on, you're getting into concept cars now which is a whole new category :D

#95 MarkWill

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 21:14

Please! Please! PLEASE! Before I die, I MUST see a picture of this Aztec woody :lol: dretceterini, can you get a picture of the one you saw, 20 inch wheels and all? As Basil Fawlty would put it "What a NOVEL concept!"

Bobbo, you're right, although there are some heroic efforts from Fiat, they are sadly let down by certain "good taste" models which dilute the breed of truly horrible cars (although, that being said, Pontiac have let the side down with a few good-taste cars as well, and you just have to look at RDRC's pics to see that they totally failed to produce entire generations of ugly cars - K-cars and their derivitaves excluded)

Best "Bad value, pound-for-pound dog-ugly production car" may well be the Camargue, but the Aztec just out-uglies it on a mass-production scale, and with no pretentions to good taste or breeding.

#96 antonvrs

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 21:43

Yeah, the Camargue is bad and may qualify for the ugliest really expensive car, or maybe the most expensive really ugly car but for basic pug-ugliness those 603 Tatras have to be some sort of pinnacle of inane hideousity(!?). They make bathtub Nashes look sleek and sexy.
In the realm of exotica I think the Docker Daimlers and some of (most of?) the Voisins are in the running.
Anton

#97 bobbo

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 22:43

MarkWill:

Certainly my 1984 Plymouth Reliant (one of Chrysler's "K-Cars) was certainly ugly, in fact, setting an new benchmark for "ugly,", but I will admit that, when I purchased it (Seriously abused) with, what was it, something like 95,000 miles from a crude owner ("Fill it up! Change the oil twice a year, need it or not!") who shouldn't even have had a driver's license to begin with, another 55,000+ miles later, it was still going. AND the poor sucke . . . er, um, . . . person I sold it to put another 40,000 or so on it after that. So, if we have to call something ugly, maybe we need to take into account reliability. After all, my lovely lady's late very lamented 1984 Mazda 626 4-door sedan wasn't particularly pretty, actually rather bland (and really a bit beat up when we got done with it!), but it had over 300K miles on it when we sold it and the fellow who bought it ran it for another 40K or so.

"Reliable" makes up for a LOT!!

Oh, yeah. The Reliant's nickname was "the Toad." VERY, VERY appropriate.

Bobbo

#98 dretceterini

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 04:54

Mark (and all) :

I'll be happy to send you a photo of this Pontiac Aztec monstrosity if I can find it. I've stuck a camera in my glove box.

When I saw it, it was heading east bound on Victory Blvd. near Lankershim Blvd. in the San Fernando Valley section of Los Angeles, about a mile from my home. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, and nearly crashed.

As to FIAT, there were some really strange funeral vehicles created on FIAT chassis; some going back to teh 1920s. I actually like the old Multipla, but the "new" one...well....

#99 Joe Fan

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 07:04

Originally posted by dretceterini
Mark (and all) :

I'll be happy to send you a photo of this Pontiac Aztec monstrosity if I can find it. I've stuck a camera in my glove box.

When I saw it, it was heading east bound on Victory Blvd. near Lankershim Blvd. in the San Fernando Valley section of Los Angeles, about a mile from my home. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, and nearly crashed.

As to FIAT, there were some really strange funeral vehicles created on FIAT chassis; some going back to teh 1920s. I actually like the old Multipla, but the "new" one...well....


Here is a website for the Pontiac Aztek


http://www.pontiac.c...e=models_prices

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#100 Martin Roessler

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Posted 19 February 2003 - 08:58

:eek: ewwwwww.....