71 replies to this topic

[D-Type]

Whatever his motive, Senna certainly blocked Warwick's appointment to the Lotus team.

My favourite memory of Derek was when he went past Pironi's Ferrari to get the Toleman up to second place in the 1982 British GP; and then a drive shaft went. Let's gloss over whether he would have had enough fuel to make the finish?

[Jerome]

I don't think that fuel would have been the problem. The problem was more than Brian Hart had built a great engine, but Toleman were by no means a big funded team. They did not have the money to develop, and suffered terrible reliability problems because of it. In 1983 the Toleman was the quickest car behind the big four, but only after they changed turbo's (from Holset to Garret), the car started finishing races. And scoring points. Warwick said at the end of the season: 'If only we would have known at the beginning of the year.'

[David M. Kane]

I think Brian Hart is not given much credit. If he had ever had a proper budget...

I only saw Derek race once and that was the Las Vegas GP at Caesar's Palace. He DNFed.

If anything he impressed me as possibly being too nice a guy, only real p#$%ks seem to succed in F1. Maybe I'm just jealous...but I still own my soul...

[FLB]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
I think Brian Hart is not given much credit. If he had ever had a proper budget...

I spoke at length to a Benetton mechanic at Montreal in 1995. He was with the team since that time. He said the monoblock (fixed head) Hart engine was an absolute piece of crap.

We discussed something that had bothered me since 1983. I was in what is now known as the Senna Curves, where the pits currently exit. The thing that had intrigued me is that both the Tolemans used to make one hell of a sqweaking noise when the drivers changed gears from third to fourth. I told him the only time I'd heard something similar was when I heard a pop-off valve go off on a Zakspeed in 1988.

Him: 'Well, there you have your answer...'

Me: 'Huh???'

Him: 'We had a chronic wastegate problem. The ****ing thing wouldn't open properly until the boost pressure was almost high enough to blow the engine to bits...'

[Jerome]

Exactly FLB! That wastegate problem was something they could not fix, but improve dramatically with changing from Holset to Garret turbo's (or was it the other way round?)

Anyway, thanx for the insights! I could be all wrong about the Hart-engine... but it can't have been THAT bad... considering how fast the Tolemans were in 1983, in flashes. I also remember that Warwick was quite quick at Monaco that year, not a turbo circuit (though the turbo era was that far advanced that turbo's could be very quick around any streetcircuit)

[Vicuna]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
I think Brian Hart is not given much credit. If he had ever had a proper budget...

I am 100% in agreement DMK

[ian senior]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
I think Brian Hart is not given much credit. If he had ever had a proper budget...

Agreed. Am I right in thinking there were once moves afoot to give Brian some manufacturer's support by branding his engines "Rover" - in the days when Rover were more or less solvent....

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by MCS


Mmmmm...not sure I agree with this, Pete. But sort of prepared to bow to your better knowledge of the period.

Always had the impression (rightly or wrongly) that Senna suffered from paranoia; almost a mistrust of people in the same team, if he hadn't been involved in their appointment in the first place.

I think you can ascribe it to a kind of paranoia, in that Senna thougt that a competitive British driver would draw resources away from him - but I don't think the "hadn't been involved in the appointment" works, look at how he turned McLaren into "his" team, even though they had a very successful incumbent.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by ian senior


Agreed. Am I right in thinking there were once moves afoot to give Brian some manufacturer's support by branding his engines "Rover" - in the days when Rover were more or less solvent....

Eddie Jordan once painted a car up in Rover livery, yes.

[jcbc3]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Eddie Jordan once painted a car up in Rover livery, yes.

OT: Have we got a picture of that? I tried search here and google, but drew blanks.

[ian senior]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Eddie Jordan once painted a car up in Rover livery, yes.

Was that in the days when Rover corporate colours were burgundy and beige?

[Arjan de Roos]

I can only think of Derek as a very approachable, friendly gentlemen whenever I met him. Never too much of an F1 driver to not sign or answer a racing fan. The blow he got from Paul's loss was felt by anybody who only met him briefly.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by ian senior


Was that in the days when Rover corporate colours were burgundy and beige?

I recall the "Jordan-Rover" as having been a sort of burgundy shade, yes. Pic was definitely in Autosport at the time...

Eddie (rather than Brian Hart!) also tried to get Volvo backing for the V10 at about that time, didn't he? -- which was coincidentally at about the time Cosworth were doing the WDA road-car V10 for "an undisclosed Swedish client" -- I'm told by very reliable sources that it fits very nicely into the engine compartment of the S80...;)

From what I recall the Rover thing was a bit of a PR stunt gone wrong - Eddie had jumped in and done it without much (if any?) support from Longbridge and denials were quick to appear.

edit - this would've been round about December '92. The only quote I can find from a Rover spokesman was "I think some people put eight and eight together and made 19."

edit 2 - seems that Wee Tam was the man who wanted Volvo badging for the Hart, some years later - although that would've been perilously close to the time when Ford took them over.

[the moon monkey]

Dear All,

I know this is slightly shameless plugging of my website, but there is a new interview with Derek online now. This was recently conducted by the CVM Group (a GP Masters sponsor) and Derek, as ever, provides an entertaining insight to this new series.

Read all about it here - http://uk.geocities....warwick/dw.html

Many thanks.

The Moon Monkey

[Melco Hairpin]

Originally posted by the moon monkey
Dear All,

I know this is slightly shameless plugging of my website, but there is a new interview with Derek online now. This was recently conducted by the CVM Group (a GP Masters sponsor) and Derek, as ever, provides an entertaining insight to this new series.

Read all about it here - http://uk.geocities....warwick/dw.html

Many thanks.

The Moon Monkey

Your website is very good.
Thank you to sustain a Derek site !!!

The only thing which is sad, is that it appears very difficult to have great pics of him driving in GPM at Kyalami !!!
I can not understand why GPM organisation not provide more free pics. That's incredible !!!

Thank you.

[the moon monkey]

Thanks for your kind comments Melco.

Yes - you are right - it is hard to find decent "free" GPM pics.... I will be on the lookout this weekend though!

Cheers,

The Moon Monkey

[Haddock]

Originally posted by MCS


Mmmmm...not sure I agree with this, Pete. But sort of prepared to bow to your better knowledge of the period.

Always had the impression (rightly or wrongly) that Senna suffered from paranoia; almost a mistrust of people in the same team, if he hadn't been involved in their appointment in the first place.

Something worth bearing in mind in all this: Lotus themselves obviously didn't rate Warwick so highly that it was worth the risk of losing Senna over him. Which, given that Senna might well ultimately have been bluffing (I'm not at all sure any top teams had an opening for him at the time in question), suggests that the team obviously thought Senna special in a way that Warwick was not.

Don't get me wrong, I think Warwick was good, but I don't think he was world champion material.

[Maldwyn]

Impressive showing by Derek in Qatar this afternoon. He lines up third, behind Mansell & Danner, and ahead of Riccardo.

[the moon monkey]

Originally posted by Maldwyn
Impressive showing by Derek in Qatar this afternoon. He lines up third, behind Mansell & Danner, and ahead of Riccardo.

Looking forward to a good race tomorrow. Hopefully Mansell will be challenged by Warwick, Patrese et al...

[Fiorentina 1]

Warwick was always one of my favorite drivers. I'm still bitter that the suspension didn't hold up another what was it 8-laps for Derek to win the Brazilian GP in 84. Also, too bad the 85 Renault was such a sh*te box, when he was in his prime and the 86 season was 1/2 way finished before he landed a ride. IMO, he was better then Mansell in 83-84, the start of their careers.

Imagine if he left Toleman in 82 when Ferrari called him to replace Pironi..... :

[LittleChris]

Del Boy will be in the Motor Sport offices tomorrow for a podcast should anyone want to submit a question.

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/

[arttidesco]

I think you can ascribe it to a kind of paranoia, in that Senna thought that a competitive British driver would draw resources away from him - but I don't think the "hadn't been involved in the appointment" works, look at how he turned McLaren into "his" team, even though they had a very successful incumbent.

Hmmm ... IIRC when the "hadn't been involved in the appointment" routine did not work the driver of whom you speak used his admirable 'crash into the enemy form behind routine', perfected against Martin Brundle in F3, to oust his far more successful incumbent at McLaren.

With hind sight it is easy to see that Delboy was far safer out of the Lotus team than in it with an unworthy bully for a team mate.