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#1 FordPrefect

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 10:58

article about Fangio from the Canadian International Auto Show, nothing really new for you people I suppose but I must admit i didn't know about the '40 Chevy.

full story here

Who is the greatest Grand Prix driver of all time? Michael Schumacher’s accomplishments notwithstanding, there are many F1 aficionados who rank Juan Manuel Fangio, the Argentinian ‘Maestro’ whose five world championships Schumacher just equalled, as the best there ever was.


In a Formula 1 career that spanned just eight years, he won 24 of the 51 Grands Prix he entered, driving cars that were not always the best in the field.


The Canadian International Auto Show pays tribute to that spectacular career with a ‘Salute to Fangio’ as part of its Classics display, always one of the show’s most popular attractions.


During a special media-day reception, hosted by the CIAS, David E. Davis Jr., former editor of Car and Driver, founder and editor emeritus of Automobile magazine, and currently editorial director of Motor Trend, regaled a throng of assembled press and motorsports figures with tales off his personal acquaintance with Fangio. Among those tales was one of visiting a restaurant with the maestro in his native Buenos Aires, where he was as glorified as a saint, and everyone in the restaurant spontaneously rising to their feet in his honour.


Before he appeared on the Formula 1 scene, Fangio cut his racing teeth in modified American stock cars on long distance races held over mostly-dirt roads up and down South America. One such race, which he won in 1940, was almost 10,000 km long and took almost two weeks to complete. One of the cars he drove during that period, a 1940 Chevrolet Coupe is owned and has been restored by Davis, and it is on display, along with two other cars associated with Fangio, at the auto show.
After winning World Championships for Alfa Romeo and Maserati in 1951 and 1953, Fangio joined Mercedes-Benz in ’54 to drive the now-legendary W196R that vaulted the German firm back to pre-eminence in the racing world. Advanced in every way, it was one of the first post-war racers to adopt true aerodynamic features.


The CIAS features one of three such cars in existence, courtesy of the Indianapolis Speedway Hall of Fame Museum, with the double pedigree of having been driven by Moss as well as Fangio. It is one of the most prestigious cars in the world with an estimated value in the range of $20-million.


The third car in the display, a 1955 Maserati 250F Formula 1 car, is a model Fangio considered one of his favourites. It was a 250F he drove in what many believe to be his greatest drive ever – perhaps the greatest drive ever – in the German Grand Prix at the Nürburgring in 1957. After losing 56 seconds and the lead in a pit stop, he proceeded to win the race, bettering the track record by 12 seconds on three consecutive laps in the process. "I had never before had the courage to push things so far,” Fangio said.


The vehicles comprising the salute to Fangio are located on the 700-level of the South MTCC for the duration of the show.


Written by Gerry Malloy, MSN Autos Canada reviewer and regular contributor.



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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 11:06

Ah yes, the Chevy coupe with the cutaway 'fenders'...

Fangio lost one of his co-drivers in one of those Gran Premio events, a sad thing indeed, but he rose above it. He was as much the master of the Andean enduros as he was of Spa and the Nurburgring.

#3 Arturo Pereira

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 15:08

His first Chevrolet Coupe (1939) was this one (property of the JMF Museum)
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This that 1939 Chevrolet nowdays ...
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He raced 3 times with this car, all in 1939.

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His second Chevrolet Coupe was a 1940 model (property of the JMF Museum)
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Fangio won the 1940 "Gran Premio Internacional del Norte" (Northern International Grand Prix)(the "almost 10000km long..." race) driving that 1940 Chevrolet Coupe
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This same car is exposed in the Juan Manuel Fangio Museum, located in Balcarce, Argentina.
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He raced this car since 1940 to 1942, when all car racing stopped in Argentina because of problems related with WW2.

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The 3rd Chevrolet Coupe he drove (from 1947 to 1949) was this one (also a 1939 model)
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This is the car David E. Davis restored :)

Fangio and his co-driver, Manuel Urrutia. Urrutia died in an accident while they were participating in the 1948 Gran Premio America del Sur (South America Grand Prix).
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Arturo

#4 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 20:08

Wasn't there also a replica built for a movie or something?

I would have been sure that was a 1940 model... and thank you, Arturo, for those pics... I've never seen so many of the great man in his trailblazing days.

Should you really surprise Fordy, though, and show him the kind of cars Juan Manuel drove in the early thirties?

I'd like to see them too...

#5 Arturo Pereira

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 21:03

Hi Ray,
It seems that Fangio's first race took place on October 25th, 1936. He drove a 1929 Ford A with the #19 (second row in the picture). That Ford A was owned by the father of Gilberto Viangulli , Fangio's friend, and it was used as a cab. The day of the race the Ford A was converted in a sort of racing car by the group of friends and they reconverted it again in a cab so Viangulli's father could not realize what his son and Fangio were using the cab for in some weekends :blush:
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The second car Fangio drove was a 1930 Ford A, also in 1936.
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Next came this V8 Buick, in 1938.
http://www.jmfangio....804necochea.htm

Fangio participated in his first race organized by the Argentine Automobile Club on March 29th, 1938, driving a Ford V8 (1938 Ford V8 engine in a 1934 chassis)
Posted Image Fangio with Gilberto Viangulli as his co-driver
Posted Image Fangio again with Viangulli
Posted Image nowadays in the JMF Museum

Fangio drove a Turismo Carretera car for the first time in October 1939, the Gran Premio Argentino. His friends donated enough money to allow him to buy a Ford but he could not find any decent one in time for the race. Finally he bought a black colored 1939 Chevrolet Coupe
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He finished that race in 9th position, and the rest is a much better known story :)
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Arturo :wave:

#6 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 21:20

Originally posted by Arturo Pereira
.....The second car Fangio drove was a 1930 Ford A, also in 1936.

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Well, if he drove that A-model on those flat tyres, it's no wonder he became a genius!

Arturo, you have no idea how much I appreciate this rundown... which was the car owned by the garage proprietor? I'm sure it's not among these... though it was a rough picture in the book, it may have been the first A-model.

#7 oldtimer

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 21:34

Looking at that 1930 Ford, it is much easier to appreciate how Fangio came to make the 'less brakes, more throttle 'comment.

#8 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 21:46

Yeah, you need that with flat tyres...

#9 marhal

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 06:07

Hello..............


Now you know why Fangio is the BEST............someone who could manage such cars in those awful roads only could be a Master...............In 1998 I was at Balcarce and one day I made a test, I tried to go fast with my rental car (a Renault 9) on the dirt, at 80 km/h I almost lose my teeth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Fangio drove in a "normal" track (Monza, Spa, etc), only in 1948, when he traveled to Europa, at age 37...................

Ray asked about the "replica" car. The Chevrolet 40 was bought in 1971 for the movie "Fangio". I think that the model A, and other cars are replicas. The Museum claims that the Chevy 1939 (red) is the same car which Fangio suffered the accident in 1948, where his friend and co-driver, Daniel Urrutia, lost his life..............

#10 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 06:37

Why haven't I seen that movie?

I have, somewhere, the book that I think came out with the movie... full of pics of Fangio in all manner of cars... and with lots of pics of the 1940 coupe that clearly weren't from the time he raced it.

Fangio surely raced on regular circuits in Argentina when Wimille and so on went there just after the war, however.

How else could it come to be that Wimille made his famous statement about Juan Manuel? How else could the Argentinian club have had the confidence to send him to Europe?

#11 eigar

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 08:28

Hello other Fangio fans!

I can see that "Fangio" - the movie from 1971 is mentioned in this thread, and I have been searching for this film a long time. Does someone know if it is available on video or DVD, and in case where?

I have already two other Fangio videos: "The Pirelli tribute" and "Fangio Special - a great racing driver". The last film contains two parts: a coverage of the 1956 GP season and review / interview where Fangio as a old man is looking back. Here the Chevy is shown in several sequences, apparently when Fangio is having a nostalgic drive through the route for the 10000 km race: "Gran Premio Internacional del Norte" . These sequences are maybe from the movie made in 1971, as Fangio's age seems to be approx. 60.

Does someone have any information about the 1971 movie?

#12 FordPrefect

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 10:47

thanks everyone, especially Arturo for the extra info and photos. really appreciate it.

#13 Arturo Pereira

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 17:16

In the 1948 Temporada Wimille won the race that took place in Rosario, in the Parque Independencia track, February 1st, 1948, driving a Simca Gordini 15 1.2l.

Wimille at the S/F line
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Wimille just left Villoresi behind him
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Fangio, also driving a SImca Gordini 15 1.2l offered to him by the Equipe Simca Gordini, could not finish the race, but he got the 2nd position for the start and he also got the fastest lap. Fangio's performance impressed Wimille and that same night, while he was in a party with the other drivers and journalists, it is supposed that he said "If one day he has a car that is right for his temperament, Fangio will perform miracles" and/or "look carefully at this man because one day he will become a champion".

They raced again at Reims-Guex also in 1948, this time a formula 1 race that Wimille won.

Wimille also came to Argentina to race in the 1949 Formula Libre Temporada. He died on January 28th, 1949 at the age of 41, while he was testing his car at the Palermo track. The layout of that track is almost intact and it is located almost one mile from my home. He crashed while exiting a dangerous left turn at the end of the very long Municipal Golf Club turn.

Wimille's Simca Gordini after the accident
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Wimille's funeral. The Duke of Windsor and Fangio
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The Argentine Automobile Club supported Fangio and also other argentine drivers in the beginning, but it was soon clear that Fangio was the one with better control of the cars he drove. Finally, Fangio and also Froilan Gonzalez were supported to race in Europe and they soon received offers from important Teams to race their cars. The argentina Government was also involved in this support, but because Fangio was famous in Argentina since the early 40s and it was seen as "politically correct" to support a popular driver like him.

Arturo

#14 Arturo Pereira

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 17:24

Originally posted by eigar
Hello other Fangio fans!

I can see that "Fangio" - the movie from 1971 is mentioned in this thread, and I have been searching for this film a long time. Does someone know if it is available on video or DVD, and in case where?

I have already two other Fangio videos: "The Pirelli tribute" and "Fangio Special - a great racing driver". The last film contains two parts: a coverage of the 1956 GP season and review / interview where Fangio as a old man is looking back. Here the Chevy is shown in several sequences, apparently when Fangio is having a nostalgic drive through the route for the 10000 km race: "Gran Premio Internacional del Norte" . These sequences are maybe from the movie made in 1971, as Fangio's age seems to be approx. 60.

Does someone have any information about the 1971 movie?


The movie "Fangio" contains several scenes recorded at Balcarce and in Buenos Aires in those years. Fangio drove some of the cars he raced in the 40s, as one of the Chevrolet Coupes (light blue) and a Volpi Chevrolet (Formula libre car I think). Fangio also drove "his" Formula 1 cars, like the Alfa Romeo 158 (recorded at Monza with amazing sound!!), the Mercedes W196 streamliner at Reims and the Ferrari Lancia - D50 at Monaco (outstanding slow motion scenes at the gazometre and at the station). There were included also many interesting clips of his races, including the 1957 German GP at Nurburgring :)

I also have a CD that has all the clips of the movie into an avi file ...400mb :blush:

Arturo

#15 Bladrian

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 18:08

Art Perreira is the quintessential Fangio fan - he's often explained to me why Fangio is a better driver than Michael Schumacher ...... but we're still friends! :rotfl:

One of the things that Art hasn't mentioned is that he actually met with Fangio. Lucky fellow.

#16 David McKinney

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 19:02

Originally posted by Arturo Pereira
Finally, Fangio and also Froilan Gonzalez were supported to race in Europe and they soon received offers from important Teams to race their cars

Possibly a translation thing, but Fangio and Gonzalez weren't the only drivers the ACA supported in Europe. Also on the list were Campos, Marimón, Pián and I think Bucci and Mieres as well

#17 Arturo Pereira

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 20:10

Originally posted by David McKinney

Possibly a translation thing, but Fangio and Gonzalez weren't the only drivers the ACA supported in Europe. Also on the list were Campos, Marimón, Pián and I think Bucci and Mieres as well


Hi David,
It was not a translation thing. I did not post all the list because almost all the argentine drivers that drove a F1 car had the support of the ACA, one way or the other. That list should also include Carlos Menditeguy, Jorge Daponte and many others like Carlos Reutemann, Ricardo Zunino, Oscar Larrauri, Gaston Mazzacane, etc :)

#18 Arturo Pereira

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 20:15

Originally posted by Bladrian
Art Perreira is the quintessential Fangio fan - he's often explained to me why Fangio is a better driver than Michael Schumacher ...... but we're still friends! :rotfl:

One of the things that Art hasn't mentioned is that he actually met with Fangio. Lucky fellow.


You do not want that I would have to explain that to you again :rotfl: There is no reasonable way to compare Fangio with .... errr ... that Schumi guy :smoking: :p

#19 diego

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 20:45

This is the kind of thread that makes Atlas F1 truly magical.

Can anyone out there get David E. Davis to go online and tell us some more??

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#20 later

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 21:15

Originally posted by Arturo Pereira


You do not want that I would have to explain that to you again :rotfl: There is no reasonable way to compare Fangio with .... errr ... that Schumi guy :smoking: :p


This may sound and, in fact, be shallow, but anyone who seriously compares Schumacher to Fangio must be on crack. I am not saying that Schumi is not good,. He is great, in fact, but he is no Fangio. The conditions in which he drove, drove in a dominating fashion, and survived to set great records verses someone who thinks an oval is too dangerous. If anyone disagrees, have them ask Schumacher for his opinion, which was well publicized as he came closer to tying the record.

#21 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 21:54

Originally posted by Bladrian
Art Perreira is the quintessential Fangio fan -

.....One of the things that Art hasn't mentioned is that he actually met with Fangio. Lucky fellow.


It's not hard to be a Fangio fan...

Which is one reason it's hard to compare him to Michael Schumacher, of course.

I've also met Fangio, as would have done many here, I would imagine. My occasion was at Sandown Park when he did that demonstration run in the W196 with the fat engine... seeing him drive that was a sensation, even if he was in his seventies.

I've recounted before how Jack Brabham said to me, standing just behind Fangio at that meeting, "It gives you heart seeing him still able to drive like that at his age..."

And how Jack, at the same age, jumped into a Brabham at some meeting in England put on in his honour, and lapped faster than the owner of the car could... and didn't come in when they flagged him so to do!

Which, of course, brings us to recall a similar occasion when Fangio was in England to take delivery of a bunch of little 1100cc Brabhams on behalf of some Argentinian group. The magazine report of the day says that Fangio jumped into a car and drove it round for several laps, no helmet, tie blowing in the breeze...

It's a disease, of course...

But the quote from Wimille that I mentioned is not the one (or ones) quoted by Arturo... it's one I read in a book somewhere, starting something like:

"I have seen in Argentina a driver..."

This was what he told people in Europe on his return. And people in Europe had reason to listen...

Wimille was a 'great' of the time.

#22 RSNS

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 03:23

Fangio was, of course, unique. His record speaks for itself: there is no way Schumacher will beat it, even if he scores one or two more championships.

The difference between Fangio and the other fellows always struck me as being one of CONCENTRATION SPAN. He could concentrate for longer than the others, and perhaps faster. He would concentrate for as long as it took to beat the other fellows - Moss in particular... He also could concentrate in very adverse conditions - the famous Nürburgring race.

The only driver who seemed to have the same powers of concentration was Ayrton Senna (there's no South American connection - I am an European) : he could concentrate for the whole of the race and be strategic at the same time- something Schumacher can't: he tends to loose concentration when not directly challenged.

It is no wonder, for me, that Fangio admired Senna. Fangio was a much better sportsman than Senna ever was, but they shared that concentration capacity.

RSNS

#23 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 03:29

And of Jenks' comment about the 'Golden Boy's' concentration level over a certain ten hours, what do you say about that?

#24 eigar

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 12:32

Thanks Arturo

The movie "Fangio" contains several scenes recorded at Balcarce and in Buenos Aires in those years. Fangio drove some of the cars he raced in the 40s, as one of the Chevrolet Coupes (light blue) and a Volpi Chevrolet (Formula libre car I think). Fangio also drove "his" Formula 1 cars, like the Alfa Romeo 158 (recorded at Monza with amazing sound!!), the Mercedes W196 streamliner at Reims and the Ferrari Lancia - D50 at Monaco (outstanding slow motion scenes at the gazometre and at the station). There were included also many interesting clips of his races, including the 1957 German GP at Nurburgring.

I also have a CD that has all the clips of the movie into an avi file ...400mb

Where did you buy your CD, do you have any adivce where I can get one?

For comparing todays drivers with Fangio, the picture in this link illustrates the difference in courage:
http://www.markegard...lio/fangio.html :lol:

#25 karlcars

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 15:02

Great early pictures, guys.

I'm happy to say that many of them are in my book on Fangio, with I think a good depiction of his early years of racing.

Unabashed plug for my book :blush: available from all good booksellers!

#26 Arturo Pereira

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Posted 28 February 2003 - 19:36

Originally posted by karlcars
Great early pictures, guys.

I'm happy to say that many of them are in my book on Fangio, with I think a good depiction of his early years of racing.

Unabashed plug for my book :blush: available from all good booksellers!


One of the best books about Fangio, period :)
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