36 replies to this topic

[Hans Etzrodt]

Harmashatar in 1934 and 35 was a hill climb according to Michael Sedgwick in his book "FIAT" (on p201 and p202). Apparently it was here where some Fiat sports cars, 'Balilla'? were victorious over British MG's and Austins, racing in the 1100 cc and 1500 cc class.

Harmashatar sounds Hungarian to me. I appreciate additional information on these events.
* – Date of the event
* – Length of course.
* – Nearest town or province
* – Country, where the event took place
* – Overall winner and his time
* – Racecar or sports car
* – Accurate source information

[Vitesse2]

Hungarian indeed, Hans. It's on the outskirts of Budapest:

http://www.budapest....nformation.html

Harmashatar Hill
Tree-covered slopes give way to a grassy open field overlooking Óbuda. If you're lucky, you'll see glider planes taking off and landing here. Harmashatar Hill makes a good place for a picnic (though not on the glider landing strip, of course). There's also a Hungarian restaurant here, next to the bus stop. To get there, take Tram 17 to Kolosy ter, then take Bus 65 to the end of the line.

Geza?

[Geza Sury]

The 'Hármashatár hegy' ('hegy' means 'hill' in 'Hungarian) is indeeed on the outskirts of Budapest. It's 497 metres high. Budapest is actually two old cities located on the two sides of the Danube ('Duna' in Hungarian) Buda (on the West) and Pest (on the East). Buda is rather hilly, while Pest is rather flat.

I tried to collect some info of the race by looking into my colleague's contemporary magazines and yearbooks, without success. On the web, though I found was that the Hármashatár hillclimb in 1931 was part of the European Championship, Rudi Caracciola won. When I get home I'll look into my books to see if there's anything more.

[Hans Etzrodt]

In 1931 it was called the Svab hill climb (in English) or Drei-Hotter Bergrennen (in German). The Germans called this event also the Schwabenbergrennen or Dreigrenzen Bergrennen. I thought this was all at the same location, known as the Svab hill climb but with changing course length. Either way, Caracciola made FTD in the 1931 event and won the sports car category, when the Svab Climb counted towards the European Mountain Championship that year and also the year before.

1920-1923 --- 1st-4th Svab (Budapest), on 5.077 km course
1924-1927 --- 5th-8th Svab (Budapest), on 4.750 km course
1928-1930 --- 9th-11th Svab (Budapest), on 4.643 km course
1931-----------------12th Svab (Budapest), on 4.000 km course (also called: Drei-Hotter Bergrennen)
1932----------------- ?
1933----------------- ?
1934----------------- ?
1935----------------------- Drei-Hotter Bergrennen (Budapest), on 3,838 km course
1936------------------------Dreigrenzen Bergrennen (Budapest), on 4 km course

The question is: are the Svab hill climb, the Schwabenbergrennen, the Dreigrenzen Bergrennen and Drei-Hotter Bergrennen all one and the same? At the identical location, the same course but with changing length!? And are the above course lengths correct?

Svab or Drei-Hotter Bergrennen
I have no date for the 1935 Svab or Drei-Hotter Bergrennen. Who knows the date? There were two other Hungarian events in 1935:

Harmashatar (Budapest)
I have now found the date for the 1935 event:
November 17, 1935, fastest racecar was the Austin of Walter Bäumer in 3m00.09s

Guggerberg (Budapest), (1,750 km
November 3, 1935, - two weeks prior to Harmashatar - fastest racecar was Lászlo Hartmann (Maserati 6C-34), no time found but supposedly FTD.

Also:
Johannesberg or Johannisberg (Budapest), (1,750 km
This climb was held between 1925 (bikes only) and 1930 with course length of 7.4 km for the first event and 4.6 km thereafter. The 1930 climb was planned, but did it ever take place?

[tompka]

Hi! I"m also Hungarian andmanaged to find a picture of the Sváb-hegy track. It's rather small, but something can be seen. It's from 1929. It says, that the track was 4075 m long, and the difference in height is 305m from start to finish.

There are some remarks on the picture:
Éles kanyar = Sharp corner
Meredek, keskeny = Very uphill, narrow!
Vasút aluljáró = railway underpass
I try to find a Budapest map and draw the line onto it, according to street names found on the map, and post is here if you find it useful.

[tompka]

As I was looking at the maps, I found out that Hármashatár-hegy and Sváb-hegy is not the same. Svábhegy is on the middle part of Buda (the western part of Budapest) Hármashatár-hegy is on the Northern part.

Sorry for the mistake.

[Vitesse2]

That seems to confuse matters rather than clarify them! If the Dreigrenzen name applies to both courses, that is.

Tompka/Geza: does "Hotter" mean anything in Hungarian and could it be related to the German "Grenzen" meaning borders?

[tompka]

Yes Vitesse2, határ means border in my mother tongue, so Hármashatár means three borders.

[Vitesse2]

So that appears to mean that events called "Dreigrenzen" and/or "Drei-Hotter" can only have taken place at Hármashatár-hegy.

Events at Sváb-hegy must therefore be called something else!

Puts a question mark over your 1931 details though Hans!

[anjakub]

Sváb-hegy hillclimb 1924

Itinerary:

Istenhegyi uti - Költo utca - Diana ut - Karthuasi utca - Agancs ut - higher station of the rack-railway on the Svab hill

Lenght ca. 5 km, height difference 305 m.

utca, uti, ut = street

[Hans Etzrodt]

Tompka – thanks for the Hármashatár-hegy track picture. It is a bit small but provides good enough details to make out a 12.15% max. gradient, indicated on the left side. The number at the start reads 139 m and at the finish 444 m, the difference of which results in the 305 m height difference shown in the upper right of the picture. Above that is printed the 5077 m total distance if I am not mistaken. This is the same distance given for the 1920-1923 Svab hill climb on 5.077 km course. Is it then safe to conclude that the 1920-1923 Svab hill climb took place on the Hármashatár course?

On what name course was then held the...
A) ...1924-1927 --- Svab (Budapest), on 4.750 km course?
B) ...1928-1930 --- Svab (Budapest), on 4.643 km course?

[Hans Etzrodt]

According to an AUTOMOBILE-REVUE article on Tuesday, October 27, 1936, Hans Rüesch (Alfa Romeo 8C-35) established a new course record on the 3.828 km Harmashatar climb in 2m38.15s at a speed of 87.120 km/h. My assumed date is October 18, 1936.

The report states also that Rüesch was the first one to break the existing record, which had been established by Bernd Rosemeyer in 1934 at 2m44.38s. That would mean the 1934 to 1936 Harmashatar course had been shortened to the same 3.828 km. Does anybody have other thoughts?

[tompka]

Sorry, Hans, but the picture is of the Svab Hill track, and as I looked at a Budapes map after posting the image it became obvious to me, that the two tracks are separate. I try to look up the real Hármashatár-hegy track map, but it's not going to be easy, because I don't have any books on the subject. Only the Internet and Google can help me.
But I can confirm that János-hegy is Johannesberg ang Gugger-hegy is Guggerberg, so the two are separate too.

[Hans Etzrodt]

The Svab hill climb at Budapest was held for 11 consecutive years (1920-1930) on the 5.077 km long Svab-hegy. After lengthy deliberations my different minds accepted this distance for all years although shorter distances are mentioned by some sources, but this information cannot be backed up by other primary sources. Therefore it would be very helpful if our Hungarian friends could go into the Budapest library and check with their librarians in those old newspapers. This international hill climb had always attracted large crowds, supposedly up to 100.000 spectators. Therefore, the Hungarian sports magazine of the twenties and the Budapest daily newspaper covered this great contest. After the 1930 event, the Royal Hungarian Automobile Club decided to discontinue the Svab hill climb because this course was not suitable to hold the automobile and motorcycle events. [They probably encountered insurance problems because several spectators had been killed and injured during those 11 years, not mentioning the various driver fatalities and injuries.] For 1931, a new event was supposed to be started in the City Forest. [Was this Hármashatár?]

5.077 km long Svab hegy. Shown only the fastest racecar, except in 1920, a touring car
1920, Oct 24 ––– won by Ludvwig Várkonyi (Benz)
1921, Oct 9 ––– won by Karl Csermely (Benz)
1922, Oct 8 ––– won by Hermann Rützler (Steyr)
1923, Oct 7 ––– won by Hermann Rützler (Steyr)
1924, Sep 28 ––– won by Otto Salzer (Mercedes s/c)
1925, Sep 27 ––– won by Ulrich Kinsky (Steyr)
1926, Sep 26 ––– won by Ulrich Kinsky (Steyr)
1927, Oct 2 ––– won by Ulrich Kinsky (Steyr)
1928, Sep 30 ––– won by Tivadar Zichy (Bugatti T35B)
1929, Sep 29 ––– won by Hans Stuck (Austro Daimler)
1930, Sep 21 ––– won by Hans Stuck (Austro Daimler)

3.828 km long Hármashatár hegy. Shown only the fastest racecar, except in 1934. Also called: Dreihügel- or Dreihotter- or Dreigrenzen-Bergrennen (German)
1931, Sep 20 ––– won by Max Arco-Zinneberg (Austro Daimler)
1932, Sep 18 ––– ????? ––– unknown. Event did possibly not take place.
1934, Nov 4 ? ––– won by Bernd Rosemeyer (DKW 500cc or 750 cc) [What racecar/driver?]
1935, Nov 17 ––– won by Walter Bäumer (Austin 750 cc)
1936, Oct 18? ––– won by Hans Rüesch (Alfa Romeo 8C-35)

I would appreciate the support by our Hungarian friends to check the relevant newspapers for accurate dates, course length, winners' times and/or speeds or both, because then the distance can be calculated or verified. Any information would help. The state archives usually carry the daily papers in their archives.

[Geza Sury]

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
Therefore it would be very helpful if our Hungarian friends could go into the Budapest library and check with their librarians in those old newspapers.

I would love to do that Hans, but I live in Eger, some 130 kms from Budapest. I looked into the anniversary book of the Hungarian Automobile Club, and found very interesting things there, but nothing about the race. I'm planning to visit the Széchenyi Library in Budapest for a long time to read contemporary newspapers, though.

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
I would appreciate the support by our Hungarian friends to check the relevant newspapers for accurate dates, course length, winners' times and/or speeds or both, because then the distance can be calculated or verified. Any information would help. The state archives usually carry the daily papers in their archives.

I'm afraid the contemporary daily newspapers doesn't contain the accurate results, perhaps just the name of the winner and the Hungarian participants. There is a specialized sports newspaper, called 'Nemzeti Sport', which IIRC goes back to 1909. The library of the Hungarian University of Sports has all its issues from the beginning, but if you want to read pre-war newspapers, you have to obtain research permission from the University. I never tried to apply for such permission, so I don't know if I can get one. I'm afraid it's not easy...

I'm going to send an E-mail to the editors of the Hungarian magazine 'Veterán' to see if they have the results of the Hungarian races from the 30s.

[Hans Etzrodt]

I am not yet fully convinced that I have the Svab and Hármashatár hill climbs 100% correct but from the various scenarios possible, my latest presentation seems the most likely to me, of course also with input I had from you lads – thank you – . I do not have other sources available to feed additional information from primary sources like contemporary newspapers or auto magazines into these Hungarian events. This is absolutely needed to verify the correctness of my deliberations. Therefore I have to rely now on what the Hungarians lads can contribute to prove these two early events to be correct as stated between 1920 and 1936.

Tompka/Geza: Nevertheless, these races are part of early Hungarian history and it should be in your own interest to find out if my presentation is correct and also find the missing pieces.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by Geza Sury
...I'm planning to visit the Széchenyi Library in Budapest for a long time to read contemporary newspapers, though...
...There is a specialized sports newspaper, called 'Nemzeti Sport', which IIRC goes back to 1909. The library of the Hungarian University of Sports has all its issues from the beginning, but if you want to read pre-war newspapers, you have to obtain research permission from the University. I never tried to apply for such permission, so I don't know if I can get one. I'm afraid it's not easy...

I'm going to send an E-mail to the editors of the Hungarian magazine 'Veterán' to see if they have the results of the Hungarian races from the 30s.

Geza - this sounds like good news to me. Working in different areas at the same time. I would definitely attempt to obtain a research permission from the University and tell them your prior accomplishments as historian and your interest in the Hungarian auto racing history.

I am also planning to hit some libraries again in Germany and probably Austria for the first time. I have just booked a roundtrip ticket to Germany for end July, however, at an astronomical figure. I guess it's half price when flying in December, the time I usually have been traveling the past years. I will look out and might even find bits and pieces for the Hungarian events. My information will be all in German language. However, should you be able to read German, I can make articles relating to Hungarian events available to you. Just let me know.

[tompka]

Hans, momentarily I live 100kms from Budapest, but it's very likely, that I will move there this year, and will be able to do some research for you in the subject. I'm not such an expert researcher as Geza, but this topic is really interesting, and try to find out as much from Hungarian racing history as I can find.
My real interest is the Népliget track, which is near the bus station, where my bus arrives, when I'm going there. I will visit it with a trackmap, and try to find out about the races there.
And back to the real subject. I was able to find out, the Sváb-hegy hillclimbs ended in 1930 due to financial pressure and Hármashatár-hegy went on to continue the tradition from 1931.

[Geza Sury]

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
(...) I will look out and might even find bits and pieces for the Hungarian events. My information will be all in German language. However, should you be able to read German, I can make articles relating to Hungarian events available to you. Just let me know.

That's exactly the case I can read German, but to speak is a different matter Hans, I'm certainly interested in anything you would find there.

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
My real interest is the Népliget track, which is near the bus station, where my bus arrives, when I'm going there. I will visit it with a trackmap, and try to find out about the races there.

May I join you Tompka? I've been planning to walk along the remains of the old circuit for more than three years! We could also make an attempt to find a map of the Városliget circuit and explore it as well!

[Hans Etzrodt]

Geza - Please mail me:
I lost your address.

[dretceterini]

The Balilla and Nuova Balilla (508C) which were built in the mid-30s up through the late 40s were very successful in the 1100cc class throughout Europe; especially in the Mille Miglia.

A fair number of these cars were modified from passenger cars into sports-racers. Companies like Siata, Stanguellini and Abarth made speed equipment for these.

In France people used the Simca versions these cars to make sports-racers; the most successful builder of which was Gordini.

Being a lot closer to eastern Europe than was England, it's not a surprise that FIAT based cars were successful in their displacement class.

[Geza Sury]

Originally posted by Geza Sury
There is a specialized sports newspaper, called 'Nemzeti Sport', which IIRC goes back to 1909. The library of the Hungarian University of Sports has all its issues from the beginning, but if you want to read pre-war newspapers, you have to obtain research permission from the University.

I've just been told that the Szabó Ervin Library in Budapest also has all the issues of 'Nemzeti Sport' on microfilm and there's no need to obtain a research permission to read them. The only problem is that photocopying is a bit expensive. Nevertheless, I'm planning to pay a visit very soon in the hope of finding interesting results and articles from the 30s (And also some Formula Junior results for Stefan )

[Marcor]

Hans, I have post nothing until now, because I'm far from home. I'm back soon so I hope to find more about the Hungarian events. About 1932, I just can say that there were an impressive list of cancelled motorsport events all around Europa, especially hillclimb events.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Although my 1700 event list is far from complete, for 1930 I show 3 cancellations, in 1931 I have found 8 and for 1932 I presently know of 9. Most were probably caused by the aftereffects of the 1929 New York stock market crash and lack of interest (speak money) in hill/mountain climbs.

[Vitesse2]

Looking for something else (as usual!) I happened across a Hungarian film archive which has a very varied collection of old home movies. In among the inevitable Lake Balaton holiday films and a few home-made pornos I found some film of one of the Svab hillclimbs: it's on reel 13.320. Scanning through quckly, I found quite a few more (and I haven't been through the lot)

37.530: speed race at Pecs c1960

50.320: speed rally

85.320: hill climb?

102.320: car race

106.320: car race in Városliget-1925

110.320: Motor race

I suspect there's more to find ....

http://www.osa.ceu.h...320-1-2-1.shtml

[Nanni Dietrich]

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
The Svab hill climb at Budapest was held for 11 consecutive years (1920-1930) on the 5.077 km long Svab-hegy. After lengthy deliberations my different minds accepted this distance for all years although shorter distances are mentioned by some sources, but this information cannot be backed up by other primary sources. Therefore it would be very helpful if our Hungarian friends could go into the Budapest library and check with their librarians in those old newspapers. This international hill climb had always attracted large crowds, supposedly up to 100.000 spectators. Therefore, the Hungarian sports magazine of the twenties and the Budapest daily newspaper covered this great contest. After the 1930 event, the Royal Hungarian Automobile Club decided to discontinue the Svab hill climb because this course was not suitable to hold the automobile and motorcycle events. [They probably encountered insurance problems because several spectators had been killed and injured during those 11 years, not mentioning the various driver fatalities and injuries.] For 1931, a new event was supposed to be started in the City Forest. [Was this Hármashatár?]

5.077 km long Svab hegy. Shown only the fastest racecar, except in 1920, a touring car
1920, Oct 24 ––– won by Ludvwig Várkonyi (Benz)
1921, Oct 9 ––– won by Karl Csermely (Benz)
1922, Oct 8 ––– won by Hermann Rützler (Steyr)
1923, Oct 7 ––– won by Hermann Rützler (Steyr)
1924, Sep 28 ––– won by Otto Salzer (Mercedes s/c)
1925, Sep 27 ––– won by Ulrich Kinsky (Steyr)
1926, Sep 26 ––– won by Ulrich Kinsky (Steyr)
1927, Oct 2 ––– won by Ulrich Kinsky (Steyr)
1928, Sep 30 ––– won by Tivadar Zichy (Bugatti T35B)
1929, Sep 29 ––– won by Hans Stuck (Austro Daimler)
1930, Sep 21 ––– won by Hans Stuck (Austro Daimler)

3.828 km long Hármashatár hegy. Shown only the fastest racecar, except in 1934. Also called: Dreihügel- or Dreihotter- or Dreigrenzen-Bergrennen (German)
1931, Sep 20 ––– won by Max Arco-Zinneberg (Austro Daimler)
1932, Sep 18 ––– ????? ––– unknown. Event did possibly not take place.
1934, Nov 4 ? ––– won by Bernd Rosemeyer (DKW 500cc or 750 cc) [What racecar/driver?]
1935, Nov 17 ––– won by Walter Bäumer (Austin 750 cc)
1936, Oct 18? ––– won by Hans Rüesch (Alfa Romeo 8C-35)

I would appreciate the support by our Hungarian friends to check the relevant newspapers for accurate dates, course length, winners' times and/or speeds or both, because then the distance can be calculated or verified. Any information would help. The state archives usually carry the daily papers in their archives.

According to an Australian newspaper article, issue 02 October 1929:

<>

The date reported by newspaper's article is the same of the 1929 Svab hillclimb (winner Hans Stuck in a Austro Daimler), as your posting above.

The driver could have been Szenássy Allan who raced a Bugatti in late 1920s.

Hans, your page
http://www.kolumbus....ellman/hcw4.htm
states the Svab hillclimb was held on 08 October. It is very strange, in my opinion, because Hans Stuck is reported to win the Vermicino-Rocca di Papa hillclimb (near my home ) only one week later, on 13 October 1929. Do you think it was possible in 1929 to cross the Europe in less than one week? Probably it was, but...

The page has also Szenássy Allan as the winner of the Johannesberg (Budapest) hillclimb on 06 October.

Very controversial. Seems to me some dates confusion.

We need help from Hungarian friends.

[pnegyesi]

Let's do some clarification.

The map which was discovered and then scanned by me depicts the Schwabenberg (Svabhegy) race course in its original form (1920-1927). Originally the race course was 5077 meter long and had an altitude of 305 meter. It was changed in 1928 but I can't find right now the actual length between 1928-1930.

Together with some friends, a photographer, carrying lots of old photographs in 1998 we have set out to track down how the original route looks today. If there's interest, I will scan the article for you.

Though the Svábhegy race was best known hill-climb race in Hungary it was definitely not the only one:
- Jánoshegy: First one in 1907, for motorcycles only. And then between 1925-1930
- Guggerhegy: 1926-1936 (with the exception of 1934).
- Hármashatárhegy: 1929-1936.
- Dobogókő: 1935-1939.

I will try to unearth more details for you, like winners, length of race course etc.

[pnegyesi]

Someone asked about the date of the 1929 Svabhegy race: 29 September, 1929

I have taken the liberty of opening another topic on Hungarian races. You can ask me here and there as well. Will try to answer, but I can't promise to be very quick.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by Nanni Dietrich
According to an Australian newspaper article, issue 02 October 1929:

<>

The date reported by newspaper's article is the same of the 1929 Svab hillclimb (winner Hans Stuck in a Austro Daimler), as your posting above.

The driver could have been Szenássy Allan who raced a Bugatti in late 1920s....

Nanni - Do you really mean Australian or was it Austrian? I did check several Austrian newspapers but could not find the above report. What about a Hungarian newspaper report?

[pnegyesi]

When I browsed through the contemporary sports magazines, automobile magazines and daily newspapers I did not make photocopies of the race results, just the preparations.
But I have my notes on where I can find the race results! Looking at my schedule, it seems in mid-March I can deliver you a bunch of race results.

Hans, I've seen on the kolumbus page a mentioning of a 1905 race on Johannesberg (Jánoshegy). That was in 1907 and yes, it involved both Johannesberg and Schwabenberg. It was for motorcycles only. Solo motorcycle winner was Joseph Holub, sidecar winner was Austrian-born Hugo Hirsch.

At the 1922 Schwabenberg race overall winner was Austrian Josef Wetzka (6-cylinder Austro Daimler touring car) with a time of 4:36
At the 1923 Schwabenberg race overall winner was Hermann Rützler, another Austrian with a Steyr racecar. time: 4.01
At the 1924 Schwabenberg race (28 September) overall winner was Otto Salzer with a 2-liter Mercedes . Time: 4.06.9
At the 1925 Schwabenberg race (27 September) overall winner was Gr. Ulrich Kinsky with a Steyr racer. Time: 3.54.8
At the 1926 Schwabenberg race (26 September) overall winner was Gr. Ulrich Kinsky with a new Steyr racer (4800 cc). His time: 3:43.36
At the 1927 Schwabenberg race (2 October) overall winner was Gr. Ulrich Kinsky with the same Steyr as in 1926. His time: 3:55.66
At the 1928 Schwabenberg race (28 October) overall winner was Tivadar Zichy (Bugatti). His time was: 3:09.61
This is the first year when the track was altered a bit.
At that time it was claimed that he was a fearless, ferocious driver. In a 1987 interview one of Zichy's old friends said that Zichy was stone drunk when he drove his Bugatti.
In his biography, which is mostly about girls, Zichy says that he was, well, not always sober

For the remaining years (1920, 1921, 1929, 1930) I have to check the library

[pnegyesi]

After I have posted my note, I realized that we'd all be better off, if I were to focus on other Hungarian hill-climb races. So I'll do that

[Martin Pfundner]

Originally posted by pnegyesi

At the 1922 Schwabenberg race overall winner was Austrian Josef Wetzka (6-cylinder Austro Daimler touring car) with a time of 4:36

At the 1927 Schwabenberg race (2 October) overall winner was Gr. Ulrich Kinsky with the same Steyr as in 1926. His time: 3:55.66
At the 1928 Schwabenberg race (28 October) overall winner was Tivadar Zichy (Bugatti). His time was: 3:09.61
This is the first year when the track was altered a bit.

For the remaining years (1920, 1921, 1929, 1930) I have to check the library [/B]

My dear Pal Negyesi,

permit me mention a few of your statements where I beg to differ:

1922: Overall winner was Rützler (Steyr), Wetzka was 2nd overall and best spoprts car.

1927: Kinsky did not drive the 1926 Steyr but the last Steyr racing car of 1927 which was far lower than the previous cars. A photo of Kinsky in the 1927 Steyr at Svabhegy 1927 you can find in my books "Vom Semmering zum Grand Prix" as well as "Austro Daimler and Steyr".

1928: The correct date is 30th September, not 28th October. The distance was shortened from 5.077 km to 4.643 km.

It is interesting to see that both Stuck (Austro Daimler) on 29th September 1929 (3'11,64") and Caracciola (Mercedes) on 21st September 1930 (3'21,13") took some seconds longer to the finish line. This might be an indication that the distance in those last two years may have been longer than the 4,643 km of 1928.

Regards

[pnegyesi]

1922: Overall winner was Rützler (Steyr), Wetzka was 2nd overall and best spoprts car.

1927: Kinsky did not drive the 1926 Steyr but the last Steyr racing car of 1927 which was far lower than the previous cars. A photo of Kinsky in the 1927 Steyr at Svabhegy 1927 you can find in my books "Vom Semmering zum Grand Prix" as well as "Austro Daimler and Steyr".

1928: The correct date is 30th September, not 28th October. The distance was shortened from 5.077 km to 4.643 km.

It is interesting to see that both Stuck (Austro Daimler) on 29th September 1929 (3'11,64") and Caracciola (Mercedes) on 21st September 1930 (3'21,13") took some seconds longer to the finish line. This might be an indication that the distance in those last two years may have been longer than the 4,643 km of 1928.

Regards

Dear Mr Pfundner,
Sorry for the awfully late answer.

The 1928 Schwabenberg race had to take place on the 28th of October, as all contemporary sporting magazines indicated that date.
I was mentioning the 1929 race in my previous note, maybe that is the source of confusion.

Here's the altered race course for the 1928 event:


For 1929 and 1930 the course was altered again - most probably changed back to the original route

Regards,
Pal Negyesi

[David McKinney]

That looks a very fast course...

[Terry Walker]

The whole area is of course much developed since the 1920s but the route is still there. I found it easily on Google Map and Satellite View.

[pnegyesi]

The whole area is of course much developed since the 1920s but the route is still there. I found it easily on Google Map and Satellite View.

Please check this thread. I have uploaded an article we did a couple years ago when we compared the route and how it looks today.

[sramoa]

Hármashatár event video from 1934