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Porsche V10 engine for Arrows in the '90s?!?


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#1 tompka

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Posted 04 March 2003 - 20:06

I've just read in the Hungarian version of Auto Motor und Sport, that the engine of the new Porsche GT has evolved from a V10 that was under development for Formula 1 and more precisely Arrows in the nineties. It supposed to be the successor of the ill fated V12 Porsche engine.
Does anyone know anything about this project?

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#2 Henri Greuter

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Posted 05 March 2003 - 09:20

If true, yet another German Oversized Behemoth ....

Remember: that supposed Arrows V10 was supposed to be a 3.5 or 3 liter (if it was an engine for 1995 on).
And now they modified it into an engine of at least more than 4 liter (Don't know the capaicity of the block)
Which means that in its initial F1 configuration likely had been too big again that it left room for so much swept volume enlargement.....
Think about the consequences of that when used in an F1 car yourself

Other thoughts by others?


Henri Greuter

#3 david_martin

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Posted 05 March 2003 - 09:47

Sounds like a lot of crossed wires to me. The V10 prototypes that Porsche have been showing for the possible new GT road car bears absolutely no resemblance to the V12 engine briefly run by Arrows in 1991 that I can see. The V12 had the output taken centrally from what were essentially two TAG 1.5 V6 blocks mated together. The new road car V10 looks a lot more like the Cayenne or even 928 V8s, a very conventional looking engine. As for stillborn F1 V10 engine programme post the 1991 Arrow fiasco, someone else it going to have to comment..;)

#4 C F Eick

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Posted 05 March 2003 - 10:49

The engine in the Carrera GT is currently at 5.7 litres and as I've understood it, it was supposed to go into the Le Mans car for the race in 2000. For reasons I don't know nor understand, the project was scrapped.

As David Martin pointed out, it has very little resemblance to the F1 engine of the 90s so this link is perhaps a marketing trick from Porsche's press department? F1 participation (that it was unsuccessful is forgotten, after all it was over 10 years ago...) sounds better than no Le Mans appearance...

#5 tompka

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Posted 05 March 2003 - 12:36

The article says, that after the engine (or planned engine) programme for F1 was unsuccessful, they changed their mind and tried to develop a Le Mans engine out of it.
Or maybe it's just the imagination of the journalist, who wrote the article. ;)

#6 MCH

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Posted 05 March 2003 - 12:59

Originally posted by C F Eick
The engine in the Carrera GT is currently at 5.7 litres and as I've understood it, it was supposed to go into the Le Mans car for the race in 2000. For reasons I don't know nor understand, the project was scrapped.


Didn't Porsche postpone most motorracing activities because they needed the engineering resources for the development of road cars? (Cayenne etc)

#7 schuy

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Posted 05 March 2003 - 13:01

The official Porsche claim(at least back in 2001) was that due to regulatory changes with regard to the engines at Le Mans, they decided to freeze their Le Mans program, and instead, use their engines for a new road car.

#8 petefenelon

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Posted 05 March 2003 - 14:52

Originally posted by MCH


Didn't Porsche postpone most motorracing activities because they needed the engineering resources for the development of road cars? (Cayenne etc)


There were a lot of senior Porsche folks wandering around at Le Mans last year - now it's entirely plausible that they all simultaneously decided to take a holiday and watch some quasi-works GT cars, but the rumour doing the rounds was that they were looking at something serious for '04 and beyond...

Wonder when Joest will stop running those Audis?;)

pete

#9 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 05 March 2003 - 15:45

There was a Porsche prototype (never raced) briefly tested during the latter part of the 1990s. It was possibly normally aspirated, so it could have used this V10.

#10 schuy

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Posted 05 March 2003 - 17:04

I have just read an article by an Israeli journalist who had witnessed today's launch of the Porsche Carrera GT.

He spoke to Walter Ruhrl, Porsche's head development driver, and asked him who were the competitors in the test against the Porsche Carrera GT.
Herr Ruhrl answered that the Ferrari F50 and the Lamborghini Murcielago filled those roles.
When asked what he thought of the F50, Ruhrl said it's a very nice car, but the difference between it and the Porsche, is that you can drive the Porsche even at low speeds, for the whole day. The Ferrari is just tiring.

When asked what about testing the Enzo and the McLaren F1, he said they tried a couple of times to bring an F1 over, but it had an accident at both of these occasions, and he couldn't manage to get a drive of the Ferrari Enzo.

Writer's name is Eli Shauli, for Ynet.

Liran.

#11 David M. Kane

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Posted 05 March 2003 - 17:51

When Porsche decided to do the Cayenne, it required a major shift in their
resouces to meet the timeline they gave themselves to get the project completed to their specifications. This required them to stop ALL race developments and race activities. In fact they went out and hired between
300-350 NEW engineers just for the Cayenne project. That number equalled the number of engineers already on-board in the whole company.

They also did a major co-operation with the East German government/city
council in the town where they have built a dedicated plant for the
Cayenne exclusively.

#12 schuy

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Posted 05 March 2003 - 18:16

Leipzig, the same place which will build the Carrera GT.

#13 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 March 2003 - 20:50

Originally posted by schuy
.....When asked what about testing the Enzo and the McLaren F1, he said they tried a couple of times to bring an F1 over, but it had an accident at both of these occasions, and he couldn't manage to get a drive of the Ferrari Enzo.....


Spare parts sales (panels division) must be brisk!

Is there any real evidence that the V12 was a pair of V6s nailed together? I've seen conflicting stories, would just like to know which is true...

#14 schuy

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Posted 05 March 2003 - 22:26

You mean the Ferrari one?

The Porsche Carrera GT is equipped with a race-bred V10.
The Enzo is a completely "from-scratch" new V12 layout.
It is widely acknowledged that Ferrari's next V12 motors will be of similar architecture.

Liran.

#15 Dracula

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Posted 07 March 2003 - 11:14

Here a photo with first test of Arrows A11C with Porsche engine at Silverstone in October of 1990.
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#16 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 March 2003 - 21:58

Originally posted by schuy
You mean the Ferrari one?.....


No, the Porsche one, as mentioned earlier...