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Lotus 49


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#1 Tiuborg

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Posted 12 March 2003 - 15:43

Hi guys!

I was referred here by a friend of mine, and some of you as well :)
I am seeking information for a design project I am into, as it is my senior year, and I have commited myself to making a "new" suspension system for a Lotus 49.

I am looking for the following data, among other thing (anything you can tell me about the car, actually;))

1- Gravity centre position
2- Suspension dimensions (how far apart are they, drawings, etc)

You seem the people to ask about this, so... :D

Thanks in advance

Teófilo Moreira

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#2 Eric McLoughlin

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Posted 12 March 2003 - 18:10

The Lotus 49 was used (successfully) in Grand Prix races from 1967 through to 1970. In that period it went through a number of metamorphoses, the most dramatic being the fitting of wings in 1968. I'm sure the suspension set ups used were amended as the years progressed. The best source of information should be the book "The Lotus 49" by Michael Oliver - Published by Veloce Publishing Ltd.

#3 Wolf

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Posted 12 March 2003 - 18:20

Tuiborg, there are number of people around involved with Grand Prix Legends simulation, which have intimate knowledge of 'innards' of the program (which is renown for its realism), so maybe they can provide You with the data program uses... Arturo, Mark? If they don't spot it here, maybe I can ask elsewhere (if it will do for You)...

#4 Pine

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Posted 12 March 2003 - 18:25

Just to make things a bit more clear: the Lotus 49 is featured in Grand Prix Legends.

This is the best GPL forum on the web.

#5 Mark A

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Posted 12 March 2003 - 19:22

Just had a quick look through the book "Lotus 49 The Story of a Legend" and other than a unscaled drawing the technical info you require isn't there.

I'd recommend contacting Classic Team Lotus as they may be able to help.

WEBSITE

#6 Tiuborg

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Posted 12 March 2003 - 21:06

Thanks for your help guys :)

I have already gotten in touch with classic team lotus, but they still haven´t answered :(

Do you know if they take long to reply?? As I have sent them 2 mails but no reply...

Maybe they are on vacation.

Thanks!

That bit about the "Story of a Legend" book is particularly useful, because I was thinking about buying it just to see if it had that info (I´m getting desperate :))

#7 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 March 2003 - 21:07

A logical thing to do would be to adapt it as a test bed for the torsion bars used on the Lotus 72.

These were concentric bars, a hollow one surrounding a solid one, with the bars splined together at one end and an arm operating on the inner bar at the working end.

You could also 'experiment' with the linkages to produce a rising rate as Chapman did on the 72.

#8 Roger Clark

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Posted 13 March 2003 - 00:12

Doug Nye's book "History of the Grand Prix Car 1966-91" contains Maurice Phillipppe's general arrangement drawings for the original 49.

#9 Peter Morley

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Posted 13 March 2003 - 13:27

You could contact Hall & Hall in England.

Their e-mail is: cars@hall-hall.u-net.com

They have our Lotus 49 there (in a bunch of sub-assemblies awaiting assembly) and have rebuilt several others (including both Rob Walker cars).

I know they are very busy, and might not have much time for your questions, but they are some of the nicest people I know in historic racing and I'm sure they will help you if possible.

#10 Tiuborg

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Posted 13 March 2003 - 17:15

You have no idea of how much I appreciate your help.

Thank you :clap:

Big :up: for all you guys.

I will contact them and try to get the book :)

My deepest thanks.

#11 Roger Clark

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Posted 13 March 2003 - 19:22

THe Lotus 49 had noticably its upper front wishbones (rocker arms) mounted noticeably higher than contemporary cars, although the Eagle went close. Presumably this was concerned with either the height of the roll centre or with minimising camber change as the wheel rose and fell. Whatever the reason, it didn't last long as the 72 had a more converntional geometry.

#12 Doug Nye

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 09:29

Originally posted by Roger Clark
...Whatever the reason, it didn't last long as the 72 had a more converntional geometry.


Didn't last long? What, three and a bit years....????? :drunk:

DCN

#13 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 10:15

No doubt it was largely aimed at minimising camber change as tyres grew ever wider...

It would be instructive to compare the geometry with that of the Lotus 40. It had wide tyres, wider than the 33, before the 49 came along.

#14 Michael Oliver

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 12:52

Originally posted by Mark A
Just had a quick look through the book "Lotus 49 The Story of a Legend" and other than a unscaled drawing the technical info you require isn't there.

I'd recommend contacting Classic Team Lotus as they may be able to help.

WEBSITE


The drawing you refer to is a copy of the original General Arrangement drawing, provided by Classic Team Lotus. I'm not sure what scale it is from memory but that probably won't help anyway as it was certainly somewhat reduced to fit into the inside cover of the book :lol:

I also have a different copy somewhere which was given to me by Maurice Phillippe's widow and which I used to make a full-scale replica of a Lotus 49 tub out of wood so that I could play Grand Prix Legends in the manner it should be played :D I'm sure I must have scaled it up to work out dimensions etc so I could have a look for you if there are specific measurements you need to know ;)

Classic Team Lotus still possess the original drawings for the car and components but I don't know how open they are about access to individuals, as clearly they like to control who makes parts etc for Lotus racing cars :eek:

Michael Oliver

#15 Tiuborg

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 14:29

First of all, let me tell you that I was directed here by a friend of mine, and that I have never known a forum like this anywhere.
You cannot imagine how these dimensions are important for my project, and... I´m speechless :D

Thanks to all of you.

The dimensions I need are:

1- The length between the top brackets where the front suspension hangs on to (both top and bottom).
2- The gravity centre location (I don´t know if it is pictured on the general arrangement drawing).

3- The diameter of the tyres and their width.

4- The distance from the wheel hub to the anchoring points on the chassis.

Anyone who can help out with this, please email me at engineer@netcabo.pt

Thanks once again, as this really is important for me :)

Teófilo Moreira

P.S. Mail me Michael Oliver!!! :)

#16 2F-001

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 20:04

Originally posted by Michael Oliver
...to make a full-scale replica of a Lotus 49 tub out of wood so that I could play Grand Prix Legends in the manner it should be played...

Michael -
Euan told me about this once over a beer - I have to admit I was never entirely sure whether to believe him or not!
Now that's dedication for you, guys!

A slightly off-the wall suggestion maybe, but does anyone have a view on how accurate a Tamiya 1/12th scale kit is - that would at least give a good, if not cheap, feel for the general arrangement of things for someone who perhaps has not seen the real thing. I think my battered 49B is still in my parents sideboard... but I don't think I compared it too closely with photographs to just how realistic it was.

#17 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 20:57

Michael, if you were going to go to all that trouble, why didn't you make an Eagle?

The front uprights would have been easier, at least...

#18 dolomite

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 23:24

Originally posted by Michael Oliver


I also have a different copy somewhere which was given to me by Maurice Phillippe's widow and which I used to make a full-scale replica of a Lotus 49 tub out of wood so that I could play Grand Prix Legends in the manner it should be played :D

Michael Oliver


These people will sell you a nice one, although I suspect it falls into the 'if you have to ask the price you can't afford it' category....... :D

http://www.interacti...ators/Lotus_49/

#19 Mark A

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Posted 15 March 2003 - 14:46

Off topic sorry.


Michael,

When is your Lotus 72 book due for release??