19 replies to this topic

[rolando]

Last night I just finished reading the Jim Clark Portrait of a Great Racing Driver book, and there is some story told by Jabby Crombac that turned my attention

"One of the great driving forces behind Jim Clark was his curiosity about motor cars and his fascination with them. When I told him last year of a friend of mine who owned a D-type Jaguar his eyes lit up and he asked if I would find out if he could drive the car. My friend is a very wealthy man who owns a number of racing cars, and he even has his own racing track on his estate where he spends the weekends with his cars. He does a little bit of hill climbing too. His son of fourteen has a little Formula 4 racing car in which he goes like a rocket, and Pierre has told me that while because of his business he himself could not become a full-time racing driver, he wants his son to become World Champion

So, What kind of racing car is a Formula 4? I've never heard anything about it. I'd be grateful if some of you tell me.

And about that Crombac's friend, Is he Pierre Bardinon or someone else?? and what happened with his son, Did he really become a professional driver?

[Ray Bell]

I believe they were basically the old F3, but with only half the engine capacity.

250cc of raw power...

[Cirrus]

I think there are a number of incarnations of F4 depending on country. In the UK F4 started in the 60's with 250cc motorcycle engines, a popular car was the JW4. In the late 60's, the Hillman Imp engine was included, and purpose built cars from Vixen were common. Later, in the mid 70's MAE engined ex F3 cars were allowed. Nowadays the formula encompasses a bewildering array of classes, including FF2000, Zetec FF, FF1600 and a new motorcycle engined class, coming full circle, in a way.

[bill moffat]

Johnny Walker from Gloucestershire was the man behind the JW4 and the main mover of the the F4 concept. He produced the model from 1966 onwards with a 250cc Villiers Starmaker mounted behind the driver in this diminutive car. Frank Costin became involved, thus the Imp 875 engined Costin-Walker of 1969.

[Paolo]

We had a F4 in Italy too, from 1980 to 1982, IIRC.
They were small nimble cars propelled by a 400cc motorcycle engine, and winged !!! As fast as a contremporary Formula Italia, and very beautiful.
Chassis construction was free, and Reggiani was one of the makers.

[Vitesse2]

At least one Formula 4 star of the late 60s/early 70s made it to Formula 1: Mike Wilds - he was bearded then -



but he's shaved it off now



He drives in Historics these days, as well as working as an instructor.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Paolo
We had a F4 in Italy too, from 1980 to 1982, IIRC.
They were small nimble cars propelled by a 400cc motorcycle engine, and winged !!! As fast as a contremporary Formula Italia, and very beautiful.
Chassis construction was free, and Reggiani was one of the makers.

I think older F3 (with engine restrictions- VW only IIRC?) ran as "F4" in a few areas including Sweden in the recent past.

And there's a great website for Canadian F4 (750cc) - http://www.formulafour.com/default.htm

It looks like those guys over in Ontario have some interesting kit!

pete

[Rainer Nyberg]

Originally posted by petefenelon
I think older F3 (with engine restrictions- VW only IIRC?) ran as "F4" in a few areas including Sweden in the recent past.

Yes, Pete, you are correct, the Swedish version of F4 used slightly obsolete F3 cars with only carburetted VW Golf engines allowed. Don't recall the capacity, but I believe they were 1600cc. I will try to find more details at home after work.

The Scandinavian events also included Finnish competitors and driver from the Baltic states. (Even during USSR days).

[rolando]

Another of my doubts resolved by the TNF's guys, thank you...

I'd just like to know something more about Pierre's son...

[just me again]

Site about finnish F4
http://www.clarinet....pitkane/F4.html

Site about Kavor ( ex Estonia, a manufacture producing Formula 4 cars )
http://www.kavor.ee/index_en.htm

Bjørn

[Rainer Nyberg]

The Finnish F4 cars, from the link in the previous post, are very much like the Swedish cars.

[VDP]

There was also cars planned in france in mid sixties with bikes engines , a low cost promotion formula


Robert

[Tim Murray]

Originally posted by rolando
I'd just like to know something more about Pierre's son...

OTOH, Patrick Bardinon made it into F3 in the late '70s, but I don't think he got any higher up the ladder.

[cm50]

I am positive that F4 started in Italy by Techno with 250cc engines. Probably as a step up from their Karting. Also prior to their F3 effort.

I recall seeing one advertised in Oz sometime back and recall a track test in SCW even longer ago

[Rob29]

Just found a load of stuff on Argentine F4 in the 70s,that I had forgotten I still had. Used Renault & BMW engines.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Rob29
Just found a load of stuff on Argentine F4 in the 70s,that I had forgotten I still had. Used Renault & BMW engines.

The champions were listed in a recent post in the "Julio Eglesias" thread

[Don Capps]

The FRA (Formula Racing Association) created a "Formula IV" in the mid-1960's. I don't recall all of the particulars, but it seemed to allow 750cc engines and was basically a 500cc F3 variant. The whole thing was laid out in its monthly columns in Sports Car Graphic.

[Rainer Nyberg]

This pictures shows Swedish driver Lasse Lindberg at the Gälleråsen track near Karlskoga during 1966. It is a Tecno Formula 4. No info on the engine size though.

[Rainer Nyberg]

A period magazine revealed the RAC Formula 4 regs for 1967.

Formula 4, class 1 : Up to 250 cc.
Formula 4, class 2 : Up to 650 cc (bike-engines at least 1000 produced).
Formula 4, class 3 : Up to 875 cc (car-engines at least 5000 produced).

[cm50]

Exactly the car I was referring to. Im sure it was the start of F4.
I wasnt aware of the separate classes but is probably why I recall some with larger engines including the Walker and Vixen cars in the in the UK useing the Hillman Imp engine.

F4 that I have seen on UK visits seems to be more of a Formula Libra class with old FF and FR cars and anything else that turns up.