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What happened to Maurer?


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#1 Barry Boor

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Posted 16 March 2003 - 10:24

Just a thought! This team made some very passable F.2 cars but then suddenly were not there any more. I suppose I ought to know the answer to this one but I cannot recall it - if indeed, I ever knew.

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#2 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 March 2003 - 11:56

According to David Hodges Herr Maurer became disillusioned and gave up at the end of 1983, citing problems with drivers not adhering to the letter of their contracts nor acknowledging the spirit of them (whatever that's supposed to mean .....) Certainly there were legal problems with Alain Ferté.

He also seems to have been in dispute with the engine builders Heidegger, over what he said was poor peformance: they said poor payment and repossessed the engines. In 1982 he'd had a run-in with FISA over the rules on skirts and in 1983 Bellof lost a win at Pau when his car was found to be underweight. All pretty discouraging I suppose ....

#3 David M. Kane

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Posted 16 March 2003 - 16:53

I've not seen a Maurer in the flesh, but they looked great in the photos of
the day. The two drivers mentioned in this post were pretty good talents too. Sounds like money issues, as usual, that did them in.

Treadway Racing recently closed there doors here in Indy after Fred Treadway decided that losses amounting to $5M US was enough.

Racing is expensive particularly if its your own money.

#4 fines

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Posted 16 March 2003 - 20:50

Willy Maurer was a bit of an... eccentric?

Owned the "Mampe Halb & Halb" liqueur brand, sponsor to the Zakspeed Escorts and Capris in the late seventies, then started his own F2 team, sold the "Mampe" brand and moved into Chevron's old premises with the team. Planned an F1 entry for '84, backed out and managed Stefan Bellof instead. Probably left the scene in Sep '85... :(

#5 David M. Kane

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Posted 16 March 2003 - 22:49

Fines, do we know who designed the F2 car and who was going to be used for
the F1?

#6 dolomite

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Posted 16 March 2003 - 23:11

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Fines, do we know who designed the F2 car and who was going to be used for
the F1?


Wasn't it Gustav Brunner?

#7 fines

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Posted 16 March 2003 - 23:20

Yep! :cool:

#8 dolomite

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Posted 16 March 2003 - 23:36

Here's a picture I posted before in a Stefan Bellof thread, the 1983 F2 Maurer at Thruxton

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#9 Mohican

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 11:52

If I remeber correctly, the other F2 Maurer that year was driven by Eje Elgh.

#10 2F-001

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 14:40

Maurers were quite thick on the ground that year - Kenny Acheson drove a Paul Owen run MM83 at some races at least; Pierre Petit, Frank Jelinski, Tomas Kaiser (and maybe some others) were seen in a variety of maurers during the year. I seem to remember them being quite attractive cars. I think the MM83 was the last - is that right??

Bellof won on his F2 debut in a Maurer - Silverstone -, didn't he? From what I recall of that day, it was something of a race of attrition, but Stefan drove a good race, nevertheless.

I think maybe Elgh drove the year before.
Was Markus Hottinger driving a Maurer when he had the accident? Or have I got mixed up somewhere?

#11 The Chasm

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 06:29

I have just read the CHEVRON book by David Gordon. While searching this forum for more Chevron stories, I found a posting with "Paul Owens running a MAURER in 1983".

I have searched this BBS and found very little on MAURER Racing Cars.

Does anyone know how many MAURER models were built, in which years, and how many of each ?.

I understand there was a MM80, 81, 82 and 83 was the last. Were the last three models "Carbon Fibre Tubs" ?.

"MAURER moved into the old Chevron factory" - when did this occur ?.

I await the informed contributions of TNF devotees gathered here.

And,

Thank You.
:)

#12 angst

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 10:11

Originally posted by The Chasm
I have just read the CHEVRON book by David Gordon. While searching this forum for more Chevron stories, I found a posting with "Paul Owens running a MAURER in 1983".

I have searched this BBS and found very little on MAURER Racing Cars.

Does anyone know how many MAURER models were built, in which years, and how many of each ?.

I understand there was a MM80, 81, 82 and 83 was the last. Were the last three models "Carbon Fibre Tubs" ?.

"MAURER moved into the old Chevron factory" - when did this occur ?.

I await the informed contributions of TNF devotees gathered here.

And,

Thank You.
:)


Maurer. They made their first F2 car in '79 (MM1), driven by Armin Hahne at various events (unsuccesfully). From 1980 onwards they started to look like a proper racing team, Gustav Brunner designed a number of the cars and, indeed, the '81 car and onwards were carbon-fibre. There was talk of them moving to F1, but they then fizzled out......
Pity.

Can't offer you much more without looking around, but for their results (at least), look here

http://www.formula2.net/

#13 GIGLEUX

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 12:19

You can have a look here:

http://www.gafferspo...urer/maurer.php

#14 Twin Window

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 12:21

Wasn't the MM82 similar in concept to the Lotus 80?

#15 kayemod

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 12:44

Originally posted by Twin Window
Wasn't the MM82 similar in concept to the Lotus 80?


Definitely not Stuart, I think you mean the Lotus 88, and the answer is yes.

#16 Teapot

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 12:53

Originally posted by Twin Window

Wasn't the MM82 similar in concept to the Lotus 80?



According to David Hodges it had "..an ingenious dual-spring arrangement to keep the skirts in contact with the track surface whenever the car was moving (but they could be locked up by the driver)..."

So, as kayemod pointed out, it sounds more like the Lotus 88 than the 80, but i'm not quite sure...

#17 kayemod

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 13:00

Originally posted by Teapot



According to David Hodges it had "..an ingenious dual-spring arrangement to keep the skirts in contact with the track surface whenever the car was moving (but they could be locked up by the driver)..."

So, as kayemod pointed out, it sounds more like the Lotus 88 than the 80, but i'm not quite sure...


It was a long time ago, but I saw one once and all the mounting points for the supposedly fixed skirts had elongated holes. I remember them being protested, but as far as I can recall, nothing much came of it. Weren't the cars eventually modified to bring them into line with all the others, after which they just weren't competitive any more? I should have taken notes at the time.

#18 2F-001

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 13:01

Well... I suppose you might say it was similar to the Lotus 80 in that much of the outer bodywork was one piece, nose to engine-cover - but in the way it was to impart downforce it had some common ground with the 88, not least in its justification -- "your rules say nothing about what we're doing".

#19 MCS

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 13:12

Lotus 80 or 88 - irrespectively, they were beautifully engineered cars.

I can distinctly remember visiting the old Chevron works in the early eighties for a lunch appointment to find former Chevron racer/mechanic John Lewis outside working on one of the Maurers in the sunshine. John had joined the team with Paul Owens (and probably others, although I can't recall who) and was clearly very happy to be working on such an impressive chassis. When I subsequently heard they were thinking of going Formula One I wasn't surprised.

Pity I didn't have my camera with me...

Lovely car though and the black colour scheme worked a treat. :up:

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#20 Twin Window

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 13:17

Originally posted by kayemod

Definitely not Stuart, I think you mean the Lotus 88, and the answer is yes.

Bugger - I did mean the 88... :blush:

#21 The Chasm

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 13:28

Thank you GIGLEUX, you are one in a million !. :clap:

Any idea on how many cars of each model were made?. :confused:

#22 GIGLEUX

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 13:47

1979: MM1-001
1980: MM80-001, 002, 003, 004
1981: MM81-01, 02, 03
1982: MM82-001, 002, 003, 004, 005
1983: MM83-01, 02, 03, 04, 05 06

#23 Mallory Dan

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 13:55

IIRC the works only used the 79-80-81 cars. Then for 82 the works ran 2, Jelinski had one for Bert Schafer, together with an ex-works 81 car. In 83 there was a 'German team' and an 'Owens/Bolton' team too.

Some of the 82 & 83 cars were built specially for the ZA FAt series, where, I think, they ran with Mazda motors.

I've never heard of any being run since those days tho', were they all scrapped I wonder?

#24 kayemod

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 14:11

You've stirred a few memories here. As I recall, Maurer won F2 races in 82, and the Gustav Brunner designed car, which effectively had illegal sliding skirts, stirred up some controversy, though I don't recall any disqualifications. That did happen in 83 when Ralt and AGS both copied the Maurer dual spring arrangement and improved on it. March began the year well until Tauranac's Ralt Hondas got their act together and started winning everything, at which point March protested and had the Ralts disqualified, though they were later reinstated on appeal. The problem was caused by badly written rules and weak stewards, and a FISA 'rule clarification' didn't achieve much. Eventually there was some kind of gentlemans' agreement between the teams, and although Maurer and AGS stuck with the twin-spring idea, they didn't win anything, so no-one protested them. Ralt agreed to remove the system from their cars, but they still won all the remaining races and the F2 championship. Those Maurers didn't achieve a lot after the 82 season, but they were beautifully engineered cars which moved F2 standards to a whole new level. One question though, was a certain Max Mosley still actively involved in day to day running of the March operation in those days?

#25 Mallory Dan

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 14:21

kayemod, no Max wasn't involved, though Robin Herd was very much. May not have been a lawyer like MM, but I reckon RH knew his way around the rule book well enough !

That 83 year pretty much killed off F2 I think, great shame, and probably down to BMW concentrating on F1 (blame BCE for that too), and Honda coming on very strong.

#26 Twin Window

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 14:26

Originally posted by Mallory Dan

In 83 there was a 'German team' and an 'Owens/Bolton' team too.

Paul Owens ran Kenny and Pierre Petit.

#27 Stephen W

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 14:42

Two BMW engined Maurers ended up with Stuart Ridge who used them in hillclimbs and sprints. They were both MM80 models but I don't have any further details (i.e. Chassis numbers).

#28 ian senior

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 14:46

Weren't they originally known as Maurer-Mampes (presumably why they used the "MM" designation in the type numbers)? Not sure what Mampe was, though. A sponsor?

#29 Mallory Dan

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 14:59

Booze I think Ian, of some sort. And Steve, you're right re Stuart Ridge I recall now. Did he have some Bolton connexions, given he'd had the ex-Keke/Crawford/Vin M B45 before?

#30 2F-001

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 15:29

Yes, Mampe is/was a brewery - or at least, a drink brand, owned by the Maurer family.

I was at Silverstone for Bellof's debut win - I was the only one of our little group who had heard of him and was thought a little crazy when I tipped him to impress in the race... although I'd heard he was good and showed much potential in FF I din't expect his rise to be quite so meteoric!

I'm sure I must have seen Stuart Ridge's speed eventing incarnations -- I'll have to have a good fossick among my old photos.

#31 Andrew Kitson

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 15:58

My good friend Trevor van Rooyen won the South African F2 series with a Maurer-Mazda in 1985.
Very loud and quite quick! 1m 16s around Kyalami. He is back in ZA now for the summer / UK winter, but will ask him if he has any info on it when back for the '06 season.

#32 Stephen W

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 16:07

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
Booze I think Ian, of some sort. And Steve, you're right re Stuart Ridge I recall now. Did he have some Bolton connexions, given he'd had the ex-Keke/Crawford/Vin M B45 before?


No! The Chevron came from Ray Rowan!

#33 Stephen W

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 16:09

Originally posted by 2F-001
Yes, Mampe is/was a brewery - or at least, a drink brand, owned by the Maurer family.

I was at Silverstone for Bellof's debut win - I was the only one of our little group who had heard of him and was thought a little crazy when I tipped him to impress in the race... although I'd heard he was good and showed much potential in FF I din't expect his rise to be quite so meteoric!

I'm sure I must have seen Stuart Ridge's speed eventing incarnations -- I'll have to have a good fossick among my old photos.


One of Stuart Ridge's Maurers remained Black with Gold/Red stripes whilst the other was turned out in Blue & White.

Enjoy the fossicking! :eek:

#34 2F-001

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 16:57

I haven't fossicked in a good while so it may go straight to my head... :drunk:

#35 Twin Window

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 21:55

Originally posted by ian senior

Not sure what Mampe was, though. A sponsor?

The Mampe motto was 'halb und halb' - which I believe is 'half & half' in English - but only appeared on the earlier Maurers, IIRC.

Bertram Schäfer ran two [white] MM82s in 1982, with Frank Jelinski in one car, partnered by a variety of other drivers in t'other; Mike Thackwell and Fritz Glatz (Pierre Chauvet) among them.

Originally posted by kayemod

Those Maurers didn't achieve a lot after the 82 season, but they were beautifully engineered cars which moved F2 standards to a whole new level.

A bit unfair to ignore Spirit, I think, who surely were on par engineering-wise (if not conceptually).

#36 angst

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 22:14

Originally posted by Twin Window
The Mampe motto was 'halb und halb' - which I believe is 'half & half' in English - but only appeared on the earlier Maurers, IIRC.

Bertram Schäfer ran two [white] MM82s in 1982, with Frank Jelinski in one car, partnered by a variety of other drivers in t'other; Mike Thackwell and Fritz Glatz (Pierre Chauvet) among them.A bit unfair to ignore Spirit, I think, who surely were on par engineering-wise (if not conceptually).


Didn't Jelinski lead at some point at Silverstone '82? Or am I getting carried away - I remember him being very competitive and thought it a little bit of a shame that his performance seemed to be overlooked (to a certain extent) because of Bellof's rather stunning début.

I'd agree with you about Spirit though, they were a very solidly engineered team.

#37 Twin Window

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 22:46

A couple of Maurer exponents...

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Posted Image

...and I can't even blame the camera. :rolleyes:

#38 Bonde

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 23:04

Re double springs on Maurers and others:

Weren't they simply soft springs installed in series with the 'normal' road springs? The trick was that while the car sat in the pits, the soft secondary springs were able to keep the car (or rather its skirts) at the mandated ground clearance, whereas at moderate speed and beyond, aerodynamic downforce would compress the soft secondary springs enough to make them coil-bound, and thus no longer working as springs, with the normal, stiffer main springs doing the springing job in a normal, but stiff, fashion. IOW, an 'automatic', mechanical ride height lowering (and raising) device. Quite crafty. I suspect the dampers may have had gobs of rebound resistance in order to be able to maintain the low ride height during braking and at slower parts of the track.

#39 angst

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 23:15

Originally posted by Twin Window
A couple of Maurer exponents...

Posted Image

Posted Image

...and I can't even blame the camera. :rolleyes:


Why did they drop Elgh in '82? Was it a financial decision? I always thought he'd done well for them.

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#40 FLB

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 06:16

Markus Höttinger and Stefan Bellof were also Maurer drivers IIRC.

#41 2F-001

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 08:45

Originally posted by Bonde
Re double springs on Maurers and others: ... I suspect the dampers may have had gobs of rebound resistance in order to be able to maintain the low ride height during braking and at slower parts of the track.

One of the points of controversy was that they had a mechanism to actually lock everything down once a burst up to speed had lowered things to 'operating height'.

Re: Eje Elgh... was he actually dropped? Or did he leave of his own accord to seek an F1 drive?

#42 The Chasm

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 10:50

Thank you all for your information :clap:

The photos are great - anyone with any images of the 79 and 80 cars ?.

Seems there are a few of the later cars, but still not a lot. This team seem to have been a well kept secret, with little "publicity" produced (or am I looking in all the wrong places ?).

Thanks

#43 2F-001

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 12:19

They do seem to be a bit 'forgotten' don't they -- but then they were relatively short-lived and F2 was hardly mainstream news then.

Attractive and well-engineered cars as others have commented; but I think the abiding memories of Maurer concern the catapulting of Bellof into the limelight, and perhaps one of the most impressive laps of the Nordschleife (albeit the truncated, pretty-much current version). In the '83 F2 race - on the opening lap Bellof, not starting from pole, was embroiled in some head-of-the-field dicing down throuigh Hatzenbach and had to get passed a few other cars before taking the lead (I think up the inside at Schwedenkreutz, if I recall correctly) and pulling away into a sizeable lead. Then his throttle mechansim failed, which had happened before earlier in the season, coming up to the Hohenrain section toward the end of the lap, and he coasted through the final section and into the pitlane. His lap from standing start to the pits had been under 6m 40s, which would have qualified in him in the middle of the grid.

#44 Herbert

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 13:23

You can find quite a lot information about Willy Maurer and his team/cars in the new, highly recommended book about Stefan Bellof (www.bellof-buch.de/). Maurer later became Bellof's manager and they signed in June 1985 a two-year contract with Ferrari...

#45 kayemod

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 13:47

Looks interesting, wonder if there's any chance of an English language edition? On Bellof, it's difficult after all this time to separate the facts from the myth. No question at all about his speed, but I only saw him race a couple of times and he looked really wild, in the way that true talents rarely do. Anyone here able to offer a more expert verdict?

#46 dolomite

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 19:30

These are my pics of the 1980 car at Thruxton

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Posted Image

There was a previous discussion about Maurer in this thread , perhaps a merger is in order?

#47 Twin Window

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 19:57

Originally posted by dolomite

...perhaps a merger is in order?

Thanks, Doli - the threads are now merged. :up:

#48 jcbc3

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 21:15

Originally posted by Vitesse2
According to David Hodges Herr Maurer became disillusioned and gave up at the end of 1983, citing problems with drivers not adhering to the letter of their contracts nor acknowledging the spirit of them (whatever that's supposed to mean .....) Certainly there were legal problems with Alain Ferté.

He also seems to have been in dispute with the engine builders Heidegger, over what he said was poor peformance: they said poor payment and repossessed the engines. In 1982 he'd had a run-in with FISA over the rules on skirts and in 1983 Bellof lost a win at Pau when his car was found to be underweight. All pretty discouraging I suppose ....


I seem to remember that the disqualification was caused by Bellof losing his wing (and thus being underweight) in an incident and it was rather heavy handed by the scrutineers. But probably instigated by Maurers war with FISA.

#49 angst

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 21:26

Originally posted by jcbc3


I seem to remember that the disqualification was caused by Bellof losing his wing (and thus being underweight) in an incident and it was rather heavy handed by the scrutineers. But probably instigated by Maurers war with FISA.


Yes,it was the nose cone IIRC, but it was Ferte, not Bellof. At least it gave Jo Gartner, and a privateer effort, a win - which was a good thing, IMO. In a way I always saw it as some sort of poetic justice that Ferte lost the win in that way, given his barging of Alliot at Monaco a couple of years earlier (and I rated Ferte very highly, btw, never understood why he didn't 'progress' his career - money probably)

#50 The Chasm

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Posted 06 January 2006 - 13:21

Does anyone know in which year a "R. Guerrero" drove for Maurer and are there any more details known of Mr Guerrero.

Thanks