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CHaparrals for Goodwood Festival


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#1 Doug Nye

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 17:54

Announced officially this morning - Jim Hall is due to return to the Goodwood Festival of Speed this year, with the winged 2E CanAm roadster and 2F World Championship Coupe. Just thought you'd like to know... I hope the 'international situation' permits. But he has said yes. We are delighted to report...
DCN

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#2 2F-001

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 17:59

Thank you for that marvellous news, Doug.
I did get to see the 2, 2F and 2J (and the ''1'') when they appeared here a few years back - but it will be great to see 2E.
I guess this '2F' had better show up too!

#3 Maldwyn

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 18:11

How time flies :eek: Doesn't seem that long ago I was looking forward to my first Goodwood :drunk:

#4 Doug Nye

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 19:52

No fewer than six current Formula 1 teams will be running at the Festival - McLaren, Williams-BMW, Renault, Jordan, BAR and Toyota - Mercedes-Benz will be fielding their recently restored short-wheelbase streamliner W196, Renault their Le Mans-winning Alpine Barquette, from Mulhouse comes the George Eyston record-breaking Panhard (wonderful tool), Tommy Ivo is set to bring his four-engined dragster, Bob Riggle reappears in 'Hemi-under-Glass', and such past favourites will reappear as the 1911 GP Fiat, 'Mephistopheles', the Cunningham 'Le Monstre', the first three Le Mans '66 Ford Mark IIs, winged Lotus 49, etc etc etc...oh yes, and Nelson Piquet is down to run the Brabham-BMW BT52...

DCN

#5 JacnGille

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 20:11

Doug, do you have any extra room at your flat for me and my sleeping bag?????
Chaparrals, WOW!!!!!!!!

#6 David Beard

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 20:14

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug Nye
, and such past favourites will reappear as the 1911 GP Fiat, 'Mephistopheles',
DCN
[/QUOTE

I saw a photo somewhere of DCN at the wheel of a monster Fiat. Is this the one? Tales to tell?

#7 Racer.Demon

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 20:39

Originally posted by Doug Nye
No fewer than six current Formula 1 teams will be running at the Festival - McLaren, Williams-BMW, Renault, Jordan, BAR and Minardi - Mercedes-Benz will be fielding their recently restored short-wheelbase streamliner W196, Renault their Le Mans-winning Alpine Barquette, from Mulhouse comes the George Eyston record-breaking Panhard (wonderful tool), Tommy Ivo is set to bring his four-engined dragster, Bob Riggle reappears in 'Hemi-under-Glass', and such past favourites will reappear as the 1911 GP Fiat, 'Mephistopheles', the Cunningham 'Le Monstre', the first three Le Mans '66 Ford Mark IIs, winged Lotus 49, etc etc etc...oh yes, and Nelson Piquet is down to run the Brabham-BMW BT52...

DCN


Doug, how long before you can give some similar advance notices of the Revival programme? Until you can, I will be feeling the pain of missing out on all of the above...

#8 Doug Nye

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 20:56

Mattijs - I can tell you that the Revival motor-cycle races will be for the Barry Sheene Memorial Trophy. Barry did so much for the Goodwood events and was so supportive, even when he won so spectacularly yet again last September - when effectively in extremis - that he was (is) very close to us. There's also going to be a race this year catering for the kind of small-capacity production sports-racing cars which formed such a staple diet of Goodood racing in period through the later 1950s - Lotus 11s, Elvas, Tojeiro-Climaxes, Lolas, plus a sprinkling of OSCA, Stanguellini etc - to provide "the anti-Climax"... For this year 500cc Formula 3 falls from the programme. It will return...

DCN

#9 Gary C

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 22:03

DCN, this is good news on all fronts!! Particularly the info about this years' Revival which I'm determined to get to, especially after missing the last two.

#10 Racer.Demon

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 22:05

Already feeling slightly better now... ;)

#11 petefenelon

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 22:18

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Mattijs - I can tell you that the Revival motor-cycle races will be for the Barry Sheene Memorial Trophy. DCN


Splendidly appropriate - fantastic way to remember Barry.

I'm going to have to get down to the Revival sometime...

#12 Roger Clark

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 23:13

This sounds better than ever, and anybody who misses out will regret it forever. Please don't publicise the event - so that we can have the place to ourselves. :)

I am somewhat intrigued about this short-wheelbase streamliner W196 though.

#13 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 March 2003 - 23:17

Originally posted by Roger Clark
.....I am somewhat intrigued about this short-wheelbase streamliner W196 though.


Built for testing at the Nurburgring?

Or a Silverstone car?

#14 Roger Clark

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Posted 19 March 2003 - 00:02

Sounds like a special for an attempt on the Crystal Palace lap record to me.;)

#15 Don Capps

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Posted 19 March 2003 - 18:59

One of the trips I plan on taking after I retire is to the Goodwood FoS. This is something I have wanted to attend for some time now. I not only want to see the "show," but meet folks from the Atlas Euro contingent -- and especially Doug Nye and the other Scribes.

#16 rdrcr

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Posted 20 March 2003 - 00:50

What a fantastic event it will be this year too... The Chaparrals, Modern F1 machinery and the usual contingent of outstanding historic racing cars and like Don, to meet some very nice folks in person - I wish I could make it. :smoking: (Green with envy )

Perhaps some day soon...

#17 Brun

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Posted 21 March 2003 - 14:27

Damn... no I'm not so sure about skipping FoS this year :|
Are there any airports in the vicinity, so we can jump over for one day? :)

#18 Vitesse2

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Posted 21 March 2003 - 14:44

Originally posted by Brun
Damn... no I'm not so sure about skipping FoS this year :|
Are there any airports in the vicinity, so we can jump over for one day? :)


Equidistant from Gatwick and Southampton - 37 miles to either!

#19 bill moffat

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Posted 21 March 2003 - 14:44

Originally posted by Brun
Damn... no I'm not so sure about skipping FoS this year :|
Are there any airports in the vicinity, so we can jump over for one day? :)


If you can find yourself a Cessna then Goodwood aerodrome is a 15 minute walk or so.............

Incidentally I was at the Goodwood Press day on Tuesday of this week. The W196 Streamliner was there as a "guest" and, believe me, it is awesome...
















.....

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#20 Brun

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Posted 21 March 2003 - 14:50

Originally posted by Vitesse2


Equidistant from Gatwick and Southampton - 37 miles to either!


Well, there are affordable (€80) return flights from Amsterdam to Gatwick... but getting from Gatwick to Goodwood by train seems difficult.

Ah well... :

#21 Vitesse2

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Posted 21 March 2003 - 23:24

Originally posted by Brun


Well, there are affordable (€80) return flights from Amsterdam to Gatwick... but getting from Gatwick to Goodwood by train seems difficult.

Ah well... :


Probably easier from Southampton by train :)

Originally posted by Don Capps

One of the trips I plan on taking after I retire is to the Goodwood FoS. This is something I have wanted to attend for some time now. I not only want to see the "show," but meet folks from the Atlas Euro contingent -- and especially Doug Nye and the other Scribes.


We'll save you a place at the cricket field bar, Colonel :)

#22 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 22 March 2003 - 12:00

Originally posted by Roger Clark


I am somewhat intrigued about this short-wheelbase streamliner W196 though.



As seen during practice at the 1955 Italian Grand Prix.

From Riedner's W196 book:

The Stuttgart team still had something new up its sleeve, however. Three short-wheelbase (2150mm) cars had been fitted with streamlined bodywork. In three days of practice a total of eight cars were used. There were three long-wheelbase cars (2350mm), two with streamlined bodies and one in open-wheel guise (chassis numbers 2, 6 and 9); there was one example (chassis number 10) of a medium-wheelbase (2210mm) car with outboard front brakes and streamlined bodywork and four short-wheelbase cars with outboard front brakes, two of which were open-wheelers (chassis numbers 12, 13, 14 and 15).

Practice showed , however, that the short chassis was too frail on the banked sections. Driving the short car, Fangio was almost able to match his time set in the long-wheelbase version, but then it was known that Fangio could wring a halfway decent time out of practically anything that moved, and his effort could not hide the fact that the short car with streamlined bodywork was not suitable for Monza.

#23 Roger Clark

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Posted 22 March 2003 - 16:56

It must have been private practice before the Grand Prix. In private practice a week or two before te race they had tried a variety of cars; it was then they concluded that the medium wheelbase streamliners would be best. During practice they found that the long wheelbase streamlined car was better and built one up at very short notice for Moss. There was already one for Fangio.

I've looked in various works by Denis Jenkinson and Karl Ludvigsen's Mercedes-Benz Racing Cars. It seems fairly clear that there was no short wheel-base streamliner at the Grand Prix, even during practice. I can find no mention of one at the private practice either.

If they did build one for this private test seession it would seem perverse to use that configuration for a restoration.

#24 Doug Nye

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Posted 22 March 2003 - 17:52

The car looks like a freshly unwrapped boiled sweet. The wooden steering wheel rim is light, bright, perfect. The wheelbase is visibly short. The front wheels contain very visible drum brakes, moved outboard because with the short-wheelbase configuration there's no room for them inboard ahead of the engine. The curved 'aeroscreen' is of Mercedes' bullet-proof variety, about 3/4-inch thick, looking like aquarium glass. It's a lovely thing - a chillingly perfect looking piece of engineering - and of restoration. There is absolutely no sign of a soul. A very logical, literal people - those chaps from Stuttgart.

DCN

#25 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 22 March 2003 - 21:07

Roger

I think you are right about the car appearing at the test sessions held on 22nd, 24th and 25th August.

DSJ in his 1956 Racing Car Review states that "They took cars of three different lengths, unstreamlined and streamlined..."

The Individual Racing History in Reidner's book contradicts his own words. Of the eight cars at Monza five were streamlined and of those two were long chassis and three were medium length.

BTW, DSJ says Mercedes built two new long chassis frames and delivered them to Monza by the end of the second day of practice. He says they were delivered on the high-speed transporter but then goes on to say that this was "an open platform lorry to take one car." I guess they could fit two chassis frames in the space usually taken up by one fully built-up car.

#26 Roger Clark

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Posted 22 March 2003 - 21:28

Yes, I wondered about that part of the Racing Car Review. However, the Motor Sport report says that they had a long wheelbase streamliner from the start of practice. On the first day (Thursday) it proved to be the best combination. Fangio used it for the rest of the meeting. A similar car for Moss (but with a different body shape) arrived for the Saturday. So only one came by high-speed transporter.

Apologies to Doug, I really thought he'd made a mistake; although some of the medium wheelbase cars also had outboard front brakes, not for reasons of space, but to enable a simpler and lighter chassis construction.

#27 Doug Nye

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Posted 22 March 2003 - 22:18

Roger - absolutely no need to apologise - I haven't checked this identification, I merely looked at the newliy delivered car, thought 'coo - doesn't that look short in the barrel?' then noticed the outboard front brake drums and immediately PRESUMED it was the short-wheelbase length. But then according to information approved by Mercedes-Benz (2003) they only built four of the streamliners...

DCN

#28 Vitesse2

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Posted 22 March 2003 - 22:29

Found in "another place", this is an extract from the MB press release:

The car being used has an interesting history, having been used by Fangio, Kling and Stirling Moss as a test car at Monza, and raced by Hans Hermann at Reims, where it set the fastest lap (2m32.9s) before retiring. It has just undergone a six-year restoration at Mercedes-Benz's Classic Centre in Stuttgart. Having lain dormant in the same condition in which it last left the track some 40 years ago, the Streamliner fell into disrepair. Its engine had not even run for over 25 years.


W196-2 then?

#29 Roger Clark

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Posted 23 March 2003 - 01:11

Originally posted by Vitesse2


W196-2 then?


That was apparantly the car that Hermann drove at Reims in 1954, at which time it would certainly have had a long wheelbase and inboard front brakes. It was also (according to Sheldon and Riedner) the car that Fangio drove at Monza in '55, also with long wheelbase and inboard brakes. You would think that DaimlerChrysler would give more publicity to the fact that the car scored the W196's final win - if that is the case...

#30 catseye_55

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Posted 23 March 2003 - 01:23

For anyone interested the Permian Basin Petroleum Museum is adding a wing to commemorate Jim Hall, a native of Midland,Tx, and his Chapparal Race Team. They will have 7-9 cars, a mechanics garage, and pit area, and replica of his workshop. It is scheduled to open later this year(Sept-Oct.). If you would like more info just drop me a line and I'll send what I can!
tuddles,
tony

#31 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 23 March 2003 - 02:07

Gregor Grant in Autosport confirms that only one long-chassis "was built overnight at Stuttgart and rushed to Monza on the famous Mercedes 'racing lorry'." It used the 1954 style streamliner body.

#32 Vitesse2

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Posted 23 March 2003 - 12:04

Originally posted by Roger Clark


That was apparantly the car that Hermann drove at Reims in 1954, at which time it would certainly have had a long wheelbase and inboard front brakes. It was also (according to Sheldon and Riedner) the car that Fangio drove at Monza in '55, also with long wheelbase and inboard brakes. You would think that DaimlerChrysler would give more publicity to the fact that the car scored the W196's final win - if that is the case...


That alleged appearance at Monza of W196-2 has always intrigued me. It hadn't apparently raced since AVUS in 1954. According to DSJ's report, MB had identified the medium-chassis streamliners as the best bet in private testing, but the drivers now found they preferred the long chassis. So why would Fangio drive a short chassis? A misidentification in Sheldon, perhaps?

#33 Roger Clark

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Posted 23 March 2003 - 15:17

Originally posted by Vitesse2


That alleged appearance at Monza of W196-2 has always intrigued me. It hadn't apparently raced since AVUS in 1954. According to DSJ's report, MB had identified the medium-chassis streamliners as the best bet in private testing, but the drivers now found they preferred the long chassis. So why would Fangio drive a short chassis? A misidentification in Sheldon, perhaps?


As i said, I think the car Fangio drove was a long chassis. It would make sense to take one along as a spare, and W196-2 was probably the only one they had left; hence the panic to make one for Moss. But I can't reconcile this with the press statement.

#34 JacnGille

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Posted 23 March 2003 - 16:38

If this thread is officially changed from Chaparral to Mercedes please let me know so I can stop reading new posts.
Thanks.

#35 David Beard

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Posted 23 March 2003 - 17:58

Originally posted by JacnGille
If this thread is officially changed from Chaparral to Mercedes please let me know so I can stop reading new posts.
Thanks.


Seems excellent stuff either way to me.......... :

#36 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 March 2003 - 21:22

Originally posted by JacnGille
If this thread is officially changed from Chaparral to Mercedes please let me know so I can stop reading new posts.
Thanks.


It's all interesting stuff, but perhaps Don can separate the M-B specific posts and start a new thread?