46 replies to this topic

[cheesy poofs]

Karl Kling - another member of the famous " silver arrows " connection of the post-war days - has passed away in his home.



http://www.atlasf1.c...p/id/9816/.html

[Vitesse2]

Sad news. Godspeed Karl ....

[Prostfan]

Bad year for Mercedes legends

RIP Karl and Manfred

[Richard Jenkins]

Aw, this is very, very sad indeed.

Vastly underrated driver, who took his chance very well, I always thought and a good man to boot. I'm glad he survived to have a long, happy & fruitful life.

I can't think of anything else to add right now, so I'll simply say RIP Karl.

[Vitesse2]

Surprising that he was only a year or so older than Paul Pietsch, who is still with us and reaches 92 in June. Pietsch was at the peak of his career in the 30s, yet Kling only really blossomed after the war, at least at the top level.

[Ray Bell]

Another of those who could undoubtedly say the war impeded their racing prospects...

But to have driven from M-B at their peak, even as a lesser light, to have been entrusted with those marvellous machines... both the GP cars (on their brightest days) and the sports cars... must have been a great way to have spent a couple of years.

One hopes his final thoughts were of the good times...

[dbltop]

The shame is that more drivers of his era didn't live a ripe 92 yrs as Karl did. The article mentions that he was the oldest surviving Grand Prix driver, who would hold that honour now?

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by dbltop
The shame is that more drivers of his era didn't live a ripe 92 yrs as Karl did. The article mentions that he was the oldest surviving Grand Prix driver, who would hold that honour now?

Paul Pietsch. Funnily enough, we discussed this when MvB passed on and no-one (not even Richie ) picked up that Kling was older than Pietsch ..... kind of proves my point above ^

"Toulo" de Graffenried will be 89 in May - he's next oldest I think.

[Wolf]

German motorsport heritage seems to be taking heavy blows recently... RIP Karl and Manfred. On a lighter note- hey you lot, don't jinx Paul! :

[quintin cloud]

RIP

[Leif Snellman]

[Joe Fan]

I am sorry to hear this. RIP Mr. Kling.

[Zawed]

Sad news to hear of his passing

[Doug Nye]

Celebrate a good innings by the old boy - 92 for one of his generation and chosen career was pretty darned good.

Rather like Brauchitsch - only moreso - Kling was a rather frustrated racing driver, having been prevented from competing during what should have been his prime by the Second World War, and then being upstaged in what he regarded as 'his' national team...first by an Argentinian, then by an Englishman...it must have been galling in the extreme for him.

He regarded the Mille Miglia as something of a personal speciality. Moss and Jenks expected him to win it in 1955 and I got the impression that Kling felt the same. He was working up a sweat after news of Moss's pace when he smashed into that tree on the outskirts of Rome and ended up not in victory circle, but in a hospital bed. He was devastated by the experience, and perhaps moreso by the English boy's win.

I remember we spent some time with him once in Stuttgart in the early '80s and he came across then as being an almost shockingly surly and embittered individual. And the person he spoke most poisonously about was Hans Klenk... I must say was rather disappointed by my personal experience of meeting Karl Kling. From his photographs he looked a far more friendly, cheerful and cuddly person than that. Perhaps we simply encountered him on a bad weekend. Or perhaps he still had residual feelings of being upstaged when Fangio and Moss were present????

I'd like to think so, but from what others have told me I don't think the impression was unusual. Which is a great shame. Even such a long life isn't long enough to be spent feeling like that.

DCN

[Yves]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Funnily enough, we discussed this when MvB passed on and no-one (not even Richie ) picked up that Kling was older than Pietsch ..... kind of proves my point above

We focused on pre-war GP drivers in that topic ...

Y.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
...Perhaps we simply encountered him on a bad weekend. Or perhaps he still had residual feelings of being upstaged when Fangio and Moss were present????...

But he beat Fangio at the Avus in 54!

Once in a while there are people with a great ego and they have to live with that. What burden!

[Ray Bell]

Didn't Neubauer, to some degree, humiliate him at Rheims as well?

The story went, as I recall, that Kling thought he had a problem and pressed Fangio. Neubauer, unaware of the problem, was riled about it, which would have showed publicly.

[Darren Galpin]

When exactly did he die, and where was his home?

[dmj]

R.I.P.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Darren Galpin
When exactly did he die, and where was his home?

He died on Tuesday March 18th, at his home in Lake Constance, according to this French news report:

http://www.lequotidi...reve.asp?N=1430

[Dennis David]

I have a tape of Herr Kling taken from a recorded interview during a demonstration of the old cars by Brooks and Collins that added to other images/text that I have of him makes me wonder if something happend between him and MB after he retired from the company. Did he not take over from Neubauer and supervise MBs sporting efforts such as it was? How did that relationship end?

I seem to recall von Brauchitsch being offered more respect when celebrations took place during McLaren's championship seasons. Which seems surprising given his actions after the war.

[Richard Jenkins]

Originally posted by Vitesse2


Paul Pietsch. Funnily enough, we discussed this when MvB passed on and no-one (not even Richie ) picked up that Kling was older than Pietsch ..... kind of proves my point above ^

"Toulo" de Graffenried will be 89 in May - he's next oldest I think.

'

Naughty Vitesse!

As Yves said, that was the oldest pre-war driver.

Pietsch as we've mentioned is now the oldest full stop ;
Nello Pagani will also be 92 this year - second
John James (if he's still alive) is 89 on the 10th May
then de Graffenried 8 days later

The others over 85 by the way (excluding indianapolis)

Arthur Owen & Eugene Martin are both 88 this week
Robin Montgomerie-Charrington is 88 in June

86 this year: Paul Frere, Robert Lacaze, Oswald Karch, Robert Manzon, Jean Lucas, John Fitch, Maurice Trintignant, Ken Downing & Ottorino Volonterio

and 85: Dick Gibson & Tony Rolt

Andre Guelfi, Roberto Bonomi, Hans Klenk, Eric Thompson & Alan Brown are the other surviving drivers born in the 1910's.

[marat]

The "Pechvogel" who tried so much to beat Fangio in 1954 passed away, sad new.

[Vitesse2]

Ah, but Karl Kling did drive for Mercedes Benz pre-war. It just wasn't in the Grand Prix team .....

He was part of the M-B team in those long-distance mountain trials in which Germany specialised - in retrospect, presumably they were testing vehicles for a slightly different kind of trial.

Pagani raced bikes pre-war of course, but doesn't seem to have jumped to cars until 1946, when he did rather well ....

Incidentally, I came across a mention of Pagani riding a Rudge 250, entered by none other than Scuderia Ferrari - not something I knew about before. Apologies for the rather fractured automatic translation!

http://translate.goo...e...Dutf-8&sa=N

[Dennis David]

Nobody has responded to my earlier post...

[Udo K.]

Originally posted by Darren Galpin
When exactly did he die, and where was his home?

Don't know exact date of his death. Lived in Gaienhofen near Bodensee. Exact location see here:
http://www.bsz-bw.de...map/rlkkon.html

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Dennis David
Nobody has responded to my earlier post...

I would if I was a little more sure of my subject, Dennis... but I think he was in charge of the rallying efforts in the Boehringer/Rosqvist days.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Udo K.


Don't know exact date of his death. Lived in Gaienhofen near Bodensee. Exact location see here:
http://www.bsz-bw.de...map/rlkkon.html

Originally posted by Vitesse2
He died on Tuesday March 18th, at his home in Lake Constance ...

Udo's information is more precise than mine, but just to clarify, the lake known as Bodensee in German is called Lake Constance in English, Lac de Constance in French.

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by Dennis David
Nobody has responded to my earlier post...

Sometimes you can stump TNF on occasion. It doesn't happen often.

[Richard Jenkins]

Times Obit (today) for Karl Kling:

http://www.timesonli...-630435,00.html

[mrob]

There is an article by Phil Hill in the April R&T about the 1952 Carrera
Panamericana. On page's 134 and 135 is a picture of the three German 300SL
race cars with their drivers, Karl Kling amoung them. Five rather round
Germans and one tall skinny American, John Fitch.

[Don Capps]

There will be a belated obituary for Kling in Atlas F1 tomorrow.

[Richard Jenkins]

Time for a little update for oldest drivers after a few passings this year:


Pietsch as we've mentioned is now the oldest full stop & still going strong;
then Toulo de Graffenried 89, back in May.
88 & definitely still with us: Arthur Owen, Eugene Martin & Robin Montgomerie-Charrington

86 this year: Paul Frere, Robert Lacaze, Oswald Karch, Robert Manzon, Jean Lucas, John Fitch, Maurice Trintignant (but for how much longer ) & Ken Downing

and 85: Dick Gibson & Tony Rolt

Andre Guelfi, Roberto Bonomi, Hans Klenk, Eric Thompson & Alan Brown are the other surviving drivers born in the 1910's.

A couple of those men are getting increasingly frail but 20 men, either 84 years of age or above, isn't bad at all.

[Jonas]

Even if it might be slightly off topic I would like to add that here in Sweden Rolf Gülich is also still going very strong. Gülich is most famous for having been a prominent member of the Husqvarna works motorcycle racing team in the mid 1930's. But in 1938 (or was it 1939..) he was contacted by Alfred Neubauer from the Mercedes-Benz racing team. Gülich got to try the MB GP cars at both AVUS and Nürburgring and apparently did well! But due to the political climate being dodgy at the time (therefore I suspect it must have been 1939..) he was told by Neubauer to take "some time off" until things settled.. Another "could have been if it hadn't been for the war"?
To my knowledge he never raced cars. (Although he was a co-driver in the Swedish GP at Norra Vram in 1933.)

Gülich is today 91 years old and still very active in historic motorcycle events with his KSS Velocette and his often seen strolling around telling stories (he has quite a few to tell and remembers every detail!!). I had the pleasure of meeting him only a month ago or so, during a memorial run at the Saxtorp GP circuit (ordinary roads. We ran with a police escort.. and quite fast too!) here in the south of Sweden.

[Paul Taylor]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
Time for a little update for oldest drivers after a few passings this year:


Pietsch as we've mentioned is now the oldest full stop & still going strong;
then Toulo de Graffenried 89, back in May.
88 & definitely still with us: Arthur Owen, Eugene Martin & Robin Montgomerie-Charrington

86 this year: Paul Frere, Robert Lacaze, Oswald Karch, Robert Manzon, Jean Lucas, John Fitch, Maurice Trintignant (but for how much longer ) & Ken Downing

and 85: Dick Gibson & Tony Rolt

Andre Guelfi, Roberto Bonomi, Hans Klenk, Eric Thompson & Alan Brown are the other surviving drivers born in the 1910's.

A couple of those men are getting increasingly frail but 20 men, either 84 years of age or above, isn't bad at all.

Sad how that, five and a half years later, that 20 has been whittled down to just 9 people...Robert Manzon celebrates his 92nd birthday today, only Karch, La Caze and Pietsch are older if they are all still alive. Pietsch will be 98 in June, that's pretty unbelievable!

The list of those you mentioned who are still alive:

Pietsch - 97
La Caze - 92
Karch - 92
Manzon - 92
Fitch - 91
Gibson - 90
Guelfi - 89
Klenk - 89
Thompson - 89

[Gabrci]

He is just 80, but does anyone know anything about André Milhoux? I don't even know if he's still with us.

Also 88, a bit frail but mentally very sharp is Kenneth McAlpine.

[LOLE]

This picture was taken during the 1992 Ferrari FF40 event in Brussels.
In the middle of the picture you can see Olivier Gendebien while the man at the right is Milou.
I don't know if he's still alive today...

[Gabrci]

Thanks, great photo! I don't think I'd ever seen a photo of him from after his active days.

[ReWind]

Originally posted by Paul Taylor
The list of those you mentioned who are still alive:

Pietsch - 97
La Caze - 92
Karch - 92
Manzon - 92
Fitch - 91
Gibson - 90
Guelfi - 89
Klenk - 89
Thompson - 89

Sadly Hans Klenk at the time of that posting also wasn't alive any more. He died on 24 March 2009.

[Gabrci]

Oh, that's very sad... I'm amazed noone picked it up, thank you for the information.

[Richard Jenkins]

Originally posted by ReWind
Sadly Hans Klenk at the time of that posting also wasn't alive any more. He died on 24 March 2009.

Sad news.

I presume this has just come to the motoring public attention?

I tried searching, but I can no longer seem to find the original family notice (Schwäbische Post - Anzeige suchen) - but it appears to suggest he died in Karlsruhe?

Any more light/tips you can throw on it, Reinhard - and thanks for letting us know.

[Gabrci]

Originally posted by Gabrci
He is just 80, but does anyone know anything about André Milhoux? I don't even know if he's still with us.

To answer my own question, having talked to his son I'm happy to tell you that André Milhoux is alive and - as far as I understand - well.

[Ron B.]

Slightly off topic,but my neighbour was given a 3-0-0 Mercedes roadster restoration to complete some years ago for the Daimler museum. He only had to do the body work as the engine etc had been done. The car was completed and a run from the city down to the coast was planned for a break in/test drive. While out driving it was found that the car had an amazing turn of speed and could really pull from down low right to levels far beyond what 3-0-0 was known to be capable of. A return to the shop and the cam cover was removed to check the valves when it was noticed that lobes were a little different to the norm. A look at the back of the cam revealed some odd numbers and a call to Stuttgart revealed it was special experimental high performance cam ground for the cars first owner..Karl Kling.

[ReWind]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins
Any more light/tips you can throw on it, Reinhard - and thanks for letting us know.

On a private German forum someone else informed about Klenk’s passing which was reported a few days ago in the “Stuttgarter Zeitung”. No exact place of death given, just his “hohenlohische Heimat” which relates to the region his home town of Vellberg belongs to.

For a short time a death notice by his widow from the “Haller Tagblatt” (referring to the town of Schwäbisch Hall) dated 08 April 2009 was online which told us Karlsruhe is the place where the funeral urn is to be interred.

That obituary also gave the date of his death (24 March 2009) and the date of his birth (28 October 1919). The last bit of info means I will have to correct my data as well as you will have to do, Richie. Obviously October 18th is as wrong as October 29th.

[Richard Jenkins]

Originally posted by ReWind
On a private German forum someone else informed about Klenk’s passing which was reported a few days ago in the “Stuttgarter Zeitung”. No exact place of death given, just his “hohenlohische Heimat” which relates to the region his home town of Vellberg belongs to.

For a short time a death notice by his widow from the “Haller Tagblatt” (referring to the town of Schwäbisch Hall) dated 08 April 2009 was online which told us Karlsruhe is the place where the funeral urn is to be interred.

That obituary also gave the date of his death (24 March 2009) and the date of his birth (28 October 1919). The last bit of info means I will have to correct my data as well as you will have to do, Richie. Obviously October 18th is as wrong as October 29th.

Okay, thanks, no probs - it's too late to change the birthdate on the update I've just done but I will change it and anything else as per necessary.

Must say I am suprirsed that it hasn't made more news - after all, the Carrera Panamericana is not exactly a minor race...

[ReWind]

After some googling:
Obituary ("Haller Tagblatt" 17 April 2009)

Der Erfinder des "Gebetbuchs"

Rennfahrerlegende Hans Klenk aus Vellberg starb im Alter von 89 Jahren

In Motorsportkreisen war er schon zu Lebzeiten eine Legende: Hans Klenk. Nun ist er tot. Der Rennfahrer und Flieger, der viele Jahre in Vellberg lebte, starb kürzlich im Alter von 89 Jahren.

WOLFGANG SCHULZ

Hall/Vellberg Nach Ende seiner Berufstätigkeit hatte sich der gebürtige Künzelsauer Hans Klenk mit seiner Gattin Vera das malerische Vellberg als Altersdomizil ausgewählt. Sein Bezug zu Hohenlohe und die Nähe zum geliebten Flugplatz waren dafür ausschlaggebend.

Früh faszinierte den jungen Hans die Fliegerei. Schon als Fünfjähriger bastelte er Flugmodelle. Mit elf Jahren durfte er bereits als Pilot ein Segelflugzeug fliegen, was ihn ins Guinessbuch der Rekorde brachte. Die Liebe zur Fliegerei ließ ihn nie los. So konnte er auf 75 Jahre als Pilot zurückblicken. Den Krieg überlebte er als Jagdflieger nur mit viel Glück.

Nach dem Abitur studierte Klenk in Stuttgart und München Automobil- und Flugzeugbau. Bald nach dem Krieg gründete er in Stuttgart ein Ingenieurbüro für Automobil- und Flugzeugbau, das ihm ermöglichte, schon in den frühen Nachkriegsjahren Automobil-Rennsport zu betreiben. Diverse Erfolge im Veritas-Rennsportwagen und im Veritas-Formel-2-Rennwagen brachten ihm die Aufmerksamkeit des legendären Mercedes-Rennleiters Alfred Neubauer, der Vaters der berühmten Silberpfeile, der ihn ins Mercedes-Werksteam holte.

Im Jahr 1952 wurde Hans Klenk gemeinsam mit Karl Kling Zweiter im Gesamtklassement der berüchtigten "Mille Miglia" in Italien. Der Erfolg gegen die überlegenen Ferrari gelang, weil Klenk erkannte, dass eine Strecke von 1000 Meilen über Land- und Gebirgsstraßen nur mit kalkuliertem Risiko bestritten werden konnte, mit detaillierten Strecken- Aufzeichnungen. So wurde er zum Erfinder des "Gebetbuchs", ohne das heute keine Rallye mehr denkbar ist.

Der grandiose Sieg bei der Carrera Panamericana 1952 quer durch Mexiko brachte Mercedes nicht nur den sportlichen Erfolg, sondern auch den Durchbruch auf dem amerikanischen Markt. Nicht nur Ferrari und Maserati wurden geschlagen, sondern auch die amerikanischen Renntourenwagen. Und dies, obwohl ein Geier bei Höchstgeschwindigkeit in die Windschutzscheibe krachte und Hans Klenk am Kopf traf. Nach der Notversorgung baute Klenk noch am Abend ein Gitter vor die Windschutzscheibe, um das Geier-Risiko vor der nächsten Tagesetappe auszuschließen. Das Siegerauto steht heute im neuen Mercedes-Museum in Untertürkheim.

Erfolgreiche Starts auf der Berliner Avus, dem Grenzlandring und dem Nürburgring im Veritas, in Monza und Le Mans im legendären Mercedes 300 SL Flügeltürer bereiteten Klenk den Weg zu einer großen Grand Prix-Karriere. Diese wurde jedoch jäh durch einen schweren Unfall bei einer Testfahrt auf dem Nürburgring gestoppt. Zahlreiche Knochenbrüche, Kopf- und Rückenverletzungen sowie ein zweiwöchiges Koma überlebe Klenk nur knapp. Monatelang war er ins Gipsbett im Stuttgarter Olgahospital gezwungen. An den Folgen litt er bis zuletzt.

Nach dem Ende seiner Karriere wurde er zum Rennleiter des Reifenherstellers Continental in Hannover, danach zum Leiter Öffentlichkeitsarbeit bei Conti berufen. Seine Verbindung zu Mercedes riss nie ab. Bei großen Events war er stets als Gast und lebende Legende dabei.

Der Motorsport verliert mit Hans Klenk eine große, nicht immer ganz leicht zu nehmende Persönlichkeit - einen Charakter mit Ecken und Kanten. Seiner Frau Vera, die ein ganzes, bewegtes Leben lang an der Seite dieses charismatischen Menschen war, gilt das Mitgefühl vieler.

Gallery of images

[fines]

RIP, "Geier" Klenk!