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Older Australian hillclimbs


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#1 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 10:50

Hans is on a mission to log the hillclimb results prior to 1950... and he's happy to include Australian events if the information is verifiable...

So what hillclimbs were there in Australia in the period?

I can think of a few that ran regularly or semi-regularly... Mt Tarrengower and Rob Roy in Victoria,
Robertson, Broughton's Pass, Wiseman's Ferry (?), Foley's Hill, Bathurst and Hartley in New South Wales, White's Hill and Ferny Hills in Queensland and the climb at Albany in Western Australia whose name escapes me.

Also, perhaps not regularly run, but known to have been run at least once, there was one at Manly or North Manly (mentioned in Bill Tuckey's book), Lobethal had one too, and no doubt there were many more.

If you have good information about results of any climbs in Australia prior to 1950, please post them here for Hans to consider. He also needs to know the name of the event and the date.

I'll be checking with Clive Gibson as soon as I can about the ones he knows of...

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#2 David McKinney

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 11:11

Careful, or I'll have tothrow in New Zealand results ;)

#3 Udo K.

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 13:56

Originally posted by David McKinney
Careful, or I'll have tothrow in New Zealand results ;)



PLEASE DO !!! :clap:

#4 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 19:42

And to think I forgot the 1933 Frankston hillclimb...

Somewhere I have a unique photo from that event.

#5 Paul Newby

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 08:16

Ray,

I recall seeing in the "VSCC of Australia" book that they used to conduct hillclimbs up Wakefield Parkway near Frenches Forest (Sydney.) Was that before the 50's? What about Hawkesbury Hill, when did that start?

In my travels west I've been up the old Albany hillclimb, and there is Mt Brown in York but don't know when that started.

#6 275 GTB-4

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 08:23

SILVERDALE

So when did Silverdale NSW kick off?? very tight very entertaining? almost like observed trials!!!

#7 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 08:29

'Up Wakehurst Parkway'? That would have to be around Oxford Falls then... where is John Medley when you need him?

I didn't mention York simply because I have no idea, but it's hard to believe that there would be so many isolated climbs, that there wouldn't be others that took place as well. The Frankston one is a good example of how readily they might be run.

Hawkesbury, to the best of my knowledge, was only run from the early fifties.

Murphy's Creek was another (in Qld) that was in the fifties... Silverdale was another fifties beginner.

#8 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 17:04

The data I am looking for the pre 1950 hill climbs (Australian or New Zealand) are as follows:
1 - Year, month, day
2 - Event and/or course (nearest town) & length of course (measured distance)
3 - Country where event took place
4 - Driver's name (of fastest race car & FTD)
5 - Driver's car: make & model
6 - Time or speed for measured distance
7 - Class: R=Racing; S=Sports car; T=Touring car. Racing is preferred
8 - Source information: primary or secondary only incl. publ. date

#9 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 22:37

Just to start the ball running, here's Frank Kleinig about to set second fastest time of the day at Waterfall hillclimb in July, 1937.

Posted Image

The time for this car was 35.2s, while the winning time was done by Kleinig driving the 'racer' ... presumably by this time also Hudson 8 powered, did a 33.4s run.

I have other photos to scan, but this computer and scanner don't seem to work within my grasp of the technicalities. I scan one photo... then it goes haywire on me.

Who'd have a Canon?

#10 john medley

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 02:17

Too short on time to do a full listing and details, I can supply this not exhaustive list of Australian hills used 1918 - 1950:
Wildwood Victoria, Heidelberg V,Flinders V, Malpas V, Newport NSW, Belgrave V,Robertson N ,Razorback N, Mt Martha V, Wheeler's V, Wiseman's Ferry N, Kurrajong N, Terrigal N, Mount View N, GlenroyV, Mitcham V, Tooronga V, Mt Victoria N, Broughton Pass N, Arthur's Seat V, Memorial Drive Newcastle N , King Edward Park Newcastle N,, Hassan's Walls N, Leura N, Hawkesbury N, Tucker's Hill ( nr Mudgee N ), Mt Eliza V, Lobethal South Australia , Mt Martha V, Rob Roy V, Waterfall N, Hartley N, Prospect N, Waitpinga SA, Albany WA, Mt Clarence WA..... Of these Prospect and Terrigal were on grass ( some others too I suspect) , Terrigal being marked out by flags on the very steep Skillion.
John Medley

#11 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 02:21

Ray, thanks for the picture and information of your first event.

Date: ----1937, July
Event: ---Waterfall Climb
Country: AUS
Driver: -- Frank Kleinig (FTD)
Car: -----'Racer' Hudson 8
Time: ----33.4s
Class: ---Racing

Still missing:
1 - which day in July?
2 - nearest town or state to describe location?
3 - length of course? (Speed of FTD-car will enable us to calculate distance)
4 - what is your source information?

As you can see, this is not an easy task and is a rather time-consuming undertaking to collect the data needed. How do I know this? I have put hundreds of the various hill climbs together, collecting data like others collect stamps or coins. I collect hill climbs. :)

#12 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 02:21

We've missed you, John...

What was the climb that resulted in that incredible advertising where some cheap car was promoted due to its time at a hillclimb against much more expensive cars?

And where do I find that ad again? I remember seeing it, but just where is a mystery... circa 1927.

#13 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 02:24

Of course, I have the photos from Campbell McLaren of the Mitcham climb... it was being run illegally and was shut down by the police before the day ended...

Tooronga, John? Wasn't that just a grass sprint? I have pics of that too, but not accessible here.

#14 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 02:26

Originally posted by Hans Etzrodt
.....Still missing:
1 - which day in July?
2 - nearest town or state to describe location?
3 - length of course? (Speed of FTD-car will enable us to calculate distance)
4 - what is your source information?


I'll get a lot of that easily from Clive, Hans... but I have to go see him to do so... in about two weeks I'll be dropping in again.

Nearest town was Waterfall New South Wales, he can tell me the length of all of those climbs (Robertson, Broughton's Pass etc) in yards, he remembers it all.

Source?

Clive Gibson, formerly workshop foreman for Frank Kleinig... but I can get other references as well... as I'm sure John can give.

#15 275 GTB-4

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 04:01

Originally posted by john medley
Too short on time to do a full listing and details, I can supply this not exhaustive list of Australian hills used 1918 - 1950:
Kurrajong N. John Medley


Hi John, where did they race at Kurrajong??? Like me, many a time up the Bells Line of Road? :rolleyes:

#16 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 08:28

I had an idea I'd heard that there was one at Kurrajong... it may have been up the main climb, or it may have been on a bit of old road that had been made redundant.

Nothing would surprise me...

#17 Paul Newby

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 08:53

Ray

OT but as a onetime Sydneysider you would probably be familiarly with the road through the Galston Gorge (my stamping ground and daily commute.) Has this ever been used as a hillclimb - if not it would've been fantastics with six hairpins! I do recall in my youth that the Southern Cross Rally used it as a transport stage.

I've often drive the Gorge late at night at high speed and wondered what it would be like as a closed road section on a rally or a hillclimb :)

#18 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 13:30

Galston Gorge was set as a stage in a rally once in the early sixties (that I know of, at least) with an average of 48mph to be achieved...

A driver in a Citroen Light 15 got in on the required time, I'm told.

Personally, I prefer McCarr's Creek Road between the two ends of Coal & Candle Creek Road. It was this stretch, by the way, combined with the loop round Coal & Candle Creek, that was David McKay's 'test circuit' used to compare all the road test cars he ever wrote up in the Telegraph...

#19 Paul Newby

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 14:17

Ahh, yes, Mc Carrs Creek Rd and West Head, scene of a few quick sorties in Alfas and Porsches in the past. Even better after bush fires have gone through ;)

I have been up Foley's Hill which still exists as a normal road. I'm sure no one knows it was once a hillclimb.

It's interesting with Sydney's hill terrain that there aren't any local hillclimbs still in existence, Silverdale and Amaroo are gone and I believe that Dapto has been closed (at least temporarily.) It was noted in the HSRCA Oily Rag that NSW don't do hillclimbs like the Victorians do, and its true. One has to go to Bathurst or way up north (Wakefield Park doesn't count nor really does Ringwood) to go for a climb. A real shame.

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#20 john medley

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 20:47

I dont know where many /most of those hillclimbs are/were, and in many cases they are now under suburbs and gone....although I only recently found the site of a 1970s ( ?) rally stage /" hillclimb" that I recall seeing on TV at the time , Colin Bond/ John Dawson Damer ( Ford Escort) waving wheels in the air across the soft curbs of a yet-to -be -built Canberra suburb. This bit of road actually turned out to be a very serious motor cycle racing circuit called Macarthur Park and has commemorative plaques and photos displayed in a little park among the houses.
So,275 GTB-4, I like Ray am unable to precisely locate Kurrajong Hillclimb but agree that it could well be somewhere along Bell's Line of Road where most of us locals have misbehaved from time to time. And the VSCCA hillclimb immediately after WW2 apparently ran North-South along the Wakehurst Parkway towards the Blinking Light ( which probably isnt there any more, either). And those bits of road up Galston Gorge and to West Head! Back in the 70s Kel Merz in his Nota Sportsman , fanging up the Galston Gorge road and on line across double yellow lines for the next hairpin was confronted by a downhilling Porsche offline but at pace.... so they passed one another each on the wrong side of the road.
Re the photo of Frank Kleinig in the McIntyre Hudson:'The Sydney Morning Herald' 31/08/1937 says that Kleinig broke the Waterfall Hill record" last Saturday", in a time 0f 35.8 seconds for 1040 yards.... so more homework for some of us!
I will have time in about a fortnight to post more detail for your lists, Hans

#21 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 22:06

Originally posted by john medley
.....on line across double yellow lines for the next hairpin was confronted by a downhilling Porsche offline but at pace.... so they passed one another each on the wrong side of the road.....


John... if you press the shift key and then the number '1' you could end that much more appropriately!

Though I am concerned about the veracity of this story, as almost all of the Galston Gorge Road has or had no centrelines because it was so narrow.

Paul... ordinarily, I would post a photo here of a Vauxhall ascending Foleys... I think it was a Byron Gunther pic. But the server with about half my photos that have been uploaded has been lost to this world and I will have to reorganise that pic... which I can't do right here and now.

As for the 'Blinking Light'... yes, John, it's disappeared long ago. I think it's safe to say that it's about twenty years since traffic lights were installed on that intersection. But while 'north to south towards the blinking light' gives some indication, it really doesn't locate the hill properly. Were it a very long climb, say three miles or more, then it would be that delightful bush drive that comes up through Oxford Falls and then opens out past the chicken farms and then finally ascends the hill to Frenchs Forest.

But if it were the more typical less-than-a-mile run, then it could be just that final ascent fromt he flat straight after Oxford Falls Road or it could be the nicer stretch from back towards Narrabeen Lakes... starting in that area where the road runs alongside the creek.

And when was it run? My impression of this road has always been that it was a pretty modern link that was put in and hasn't essentially changed since that time... whenever 'that time' was, perhaps during the Depression? Maybe during WW2? Or immediately after it? That being the case, could it have been run during construction, prior to the opening of the road? Or was there indeed a more primitive path that was merely straightened by the major works? If so... I would doubt that it would have been given that grandiose title.

Getting back to Kurrajong... a number of options exist, but the biggest question is whether or not a hillclimb would have been allowed to hold up everyday traffic. Out of the way of the main road there is the road up from Grose Vale, which has some nice tortuous bends coming into the Kurrajong Village, or there is IIRC a stretch of bypassed old road that rises west to east alongside the current road just west of the turnoff to Kurrajong. Short but potentially available. And then, just past that point as one travels west there is a newish (forty years old perhaps?) straight stretch that possibly left a twisty bit if redundant road.

I wonder if there is anything in the old Richmond or Windsor newspapers? Of course, a date would be a good starting point. And if there's a Kurrajong Historic Society (no doubt more preoccupied with the history of painters and poets living in the area...) it could be helpful.

#22 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 12 April 2003 - 23:23

Originally posted by john medley
...Re the photo of Frank Kleinig in the McIntyre Hudson:'The Sydney Morning Herald' 31/08/1937 says that Kleinig broke the Waterfall Hill record" last Saturday", in a time 0f 35.8 seconds for 1040 yards.... so more homework for some of us!
I will have time in about a fortnight to post more detail for your lists, Hans

John - I am looking forward to your contribution with great interest because at present not a single hill climb from Australia or New Zealand is part of my list, which now contains around 2000 hill climbs of the 1897-1949 period in 25-30 different countries.

#23 275 GTB-4

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Posted 13 April 2003 - 03:25

Originally posted by john medley
I dont know where many /most of those hillclimbs are/were, and in many cases they are now under suburbs and gone....although I only recently found the site of a 1970s ( ?) rally stage /" hillclimb" that I recall seeing on TV at the time , Colin Bond/ John Dawson Damer ( Ford Escort) waving wheels in the air across the soft curbs of a yet-to -be -built Canberra suburb.

This bit of road actually turned out to be a very serious motor cycle racing circuit called Macarthur Park and has commemorative plaques and photos displayed in a little park among the houses.
So,275 GTB-4, I like Ray am unable to precisely locate Kurrajong Hillclimb but agree that it could well be somewhere along Bell's Line of Road where most of us locals have misbehaved from time to time.


Thanks John, I think that Ray may have a point about Kurrajong and the Main Road - I seem to remember that when the main was realigned that a section of the old road was used for ome sport. However, Bells was always a great little challenge!!!

A friend of mine has pictures of Ari Vattenan hoicking escort wheels in Canberra in the 70s or 80s - must try and find these plaques you speak of - possibly in the suburb of Macarthur....the rally stage I have heard of was indeed in Tuggeranong (the area where Macarthur is) before it was very much populated.

#24 john medley

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Posted 13 April 2003 - 06:02

Vintage Sports Car Club of Australia Wakehurst Parkway Hillclimb"... held on 13th May 1945, and arguably the first motoring competition postwar in New South Wales, if not Australia.These days it is nothing short of unbelievable,but such was the cooperation we enjoyed from the authorities that they not only let us use the finished bit of what is now the Wakehurst Parkway, from about Oxford Falls to the top of the hill, but we also had police assistance in keeping ordinary road usera out of our way...." " Fifty Years of the VSCCA 1944- 1994 " page 8. Fastest time of day: H. Laing Bugatti Ford V8 ( Mackellar Special). Fastest Vintage car : John Crouch Bentley 4 1/2 S/C.
Photos Pages 8, 10 of above, and 17,20, and 21 of the VSCCA Albums ( 1976) show fairly clearly the road alignment, and would allow accurate locating of the site today. Distance? Probably no more than the quarter mile around the last lefthand curve and up towards the " blinking light' intersection.

#25 David McKinney

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Posted 13 April 2003 - 08:42

In the 1960s I spent many weeks in libraries and dusty newspaper morgues all over New Zealand researching results of motor races and hillclimbs. I had no need to note specific sources of each piece of information, and it’s a bit inconvenient to pop back and get that now, so Hans will have to ignore the following lists. I hope however they will satisfy others who have expressed an interest.
Other sources include organising club magazines plus The Veteran Years of New Zealand Motoring by Pam MacLean and Brian Joyce, A H & A W Reed, 1971

1905
-/11 Port Hills (Christchurch) : Harry Adams, Minerva, 1m 30s

1907
7/12 Waitati (Dunedin)

1910
11/6 Hackthorne Road (Christchurch) : Wally Scott, Vauxhall Y2, 1m 49.0s

1911
11/3 Hackthorne Road (Christchurch) : Wally Scott, Vauxhall Y2, 1m 36.8s

1912
O’Kains Bay (Christchurch)

1913
27/10 O’Kains Bay (Christchurch) : Wally Scott, Vauxhall Prince Henry, 7m 27.0s
22/11 Signal Hill (Dunedin) : Wally Scott, Vauxhall Prince Henry, 36.0s

1921
1/10 Okoia (Wanganui) : Ben Campbell, Essex

1923
11/3 Bethune’s Gully (Dunedin) : Sam de Beer, Austin 20
O’Kains Bay (Christchurch) : John Steer, Fiat-Silvani 501S

1925
-/3 Bethune’s Gully (Dunedin) : Andy Irving, Bugatti Brescia, 1m 40.4s

1926
6/3 Bethune’s Gully (Dunedin) : Alex Campbell, Beardmore Super Sports, 1m 45.0s

1927
5/3 Bethune’s Gully (Dunedin) : Alex Campbell, Beardmore Super Sports

1932
25/1 Moncks Spur Road (Christchurch) : J R Tench, Singer Junior
26/4 Helensville (Auckland) : George Smith, Riley Brooklands Nine

1933
11/3 (Christchurch) : J R Tench, Singer
26/4 Helensville (Auckland) : Claude Edwards, Bugatti Brescia

1934
24/3 Bethune’s Gully (Dunedin) : J Hayes, Chrysler

1935
9/3 Bethune’s Gully (Dunedin) : G R McGluskey, Ford Ten
26/4 Queenstown Road (Auckland) : Gerry Mathieson, Miller 122

1936
Otago AA Bethune’s Gully (Dunedin) : E J Buttar, Ford V8

1937
Coal Pit (Oamaru) : Godfrey Paape, Frazer Nash TT
Patmos Avenue (Dunedin) : Bob Miller, Ford B4 s/c

NOTE: These are the only specific events I know about, though there were certainly others. Perhaps the list is 50% complete.

#26 David McKinney

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Posted 13 April 2003 - 09:00

Some later pre-1950 New Zealand hillclimbs -

1943
-/2 Judgeford (Wellington) - Barney Ferrier, SS, 1m 44.8s

1945
4/1 Judgeford (Wellington) - Morrie Proctor, Riley Brooklands Nine, 1m39.2s

1946
-/5 Paekakariki (Wellington) - Clem Atkinson, Alvis 12/50 SC, 2m 57.2s

1947
1/3 Paekakariki (Wellington) - Morrie Proctor, Riley Brooklands Nine, 2m 50.2s
8/3 South Island Championship, Halswell (Christchurch) - Ozzie Hawkins, Frazer Nash TT
25/5 Mount Shellscott (Auckland) - Gordon Brown, Ford V8
-/9 Mount Shellscott (Auckland) - Gordon Brown, Ford V8
21/10 Saddle Road (Palmerston North) - Morrie Proctor, Riley Brooklands Nine, 1m 14.8s

1948
31/1 Karehana Bay (Wellington) - Geoff Easterbrook-Smith, Alvis 12/50 SC
21/2 Paekakariki (Wellington) - Ron Roycroft, Ford B4 midget, 2m 32.2s
3/3 South Island Championship, Halswell (Christchurch) - Percy Lupp, Ford V8 s/c
21/3 Whitford (Auckland) - Ken Hemus, Vauxhall 30/98
Summit Road (Christchurch) - Hec Green, Wolseley Special
Seafield Road (Napier) - Hugo Hollis, MG TC
-/4 Saddle Road (Palmerston North) - Morrie Proctor, Riley Brooklands Nine
7/7 Patmos Avenue (Dunedin) - Sybil Lupp, MG TC
11/9 Karehana Bay (Wellington) - Hugo Hollis, MG TC
16/10 Seafield Road (Napier) - Hugo Hollis, MG TC, 2m 01.0s
17/10 Halswell (Christchurch) - Hec Green, Wolseley Special
-/10 Saddle Road (Palmerston North) - Morrie Proctor, Bugatti-Riley, 1m 00.0s
-/10 Summit Road (Christchurch) - Hec Green, Wolseley Special
11/12 Mount Eden (Auckland) - Ron Roycroft Austin 7 s/c, 32.4s
-/12 Riverhead (Auckland) - Laurie Powell, Ford V8

1949
29/1 North Island Championship, Seafield Road (Napier)
5/2 Saddle Road (Palmerston North) - Fordy Farland, MG Magna, 1m 03.4s
12/2 NZ Championship Paekakariki (Wellington) - Ewen Faulkner, Ford-Morris, 2m 32.85s
5/3 South Island Championship Patmos Avenue (Dunedin) - Sybil Lupp, MG TC s/c
20/3 Riverhead (Auckland) - Gordon Brown, Ford 10 special, and Laurie Powell, Ford V8
14/5 Gebbies Pass (Christchurch) - Hec Green, Wolseley Special
Halswell (Christchurch) - Percy Lupp, Ford V8
-/6 Patmos Avenue (Dunedin) - Ted Reid, MG TA
27/8 Tarawera (Rotorua) - Ron Sutherland, V8-Chevrolet Special
-/9 Riverhead (Auckland) - Gordon Brown, Ford 10 special
(Hamilton) - Peter Harrison, Brown Special
9/10 Wairekiki (Wyndham) - Sybil Lupp, MG TC s/c
10/10 Tawa Flat (Wellington) - Allan Freeman, Thompson Special
-/10 Norwood Street, Mount Cargill (Dunedin) - Sybil Lupp, MG TC s/c
29/10 Coal Pit (Oamaru) - Sybil Lupp, MG TC s/c
19/11 Saddle Road (Palmerston North) - Hugo Hollis, MG TC s/c, 59.6s
10/12 Seafield Road (Napier) - Bill Hanna, MG TC s/c
-/12 Cape Wanbrow: Sybil Lupp, MG TC s/c

NOTE: Closer to 80% complete, I suspect. Principal sources NZ Sports Car, Motor Sport, Australian Motor Sports, local newspapers, club magazines

#27 David McKinney

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Posted 13 April 2003 - 15:59

Below are some early Australian events, identified by state rather than nearest town.
Principal sources are articles in Australian Motor Sports and other Australian monthly magazines from 1945 onwards; I have omitted a number of references to specific events won by people such as Charlie East and Hope Bartlett in Bugattis, and by the famous Mrs J A S Jones Alfa Romeo 6C-1750, which annoyingly give no mention of the year. Other sources include Half a Century of Speed by Barry Lake, Type Forty Pty Ltd 1998) and, for WA events, Around the Houses by Terry Walker, Racing Car News Pty Ltd 1980).
I’d be very surprised if this list encompasses as much as 20% of the events held.

1905
Coogee (NSW) - C O Sherwood, DeDion

1911
Artillery Hill (NSW) - L W Pye, Vauxhall
Artillery Hill (NSW) - Colin Smith, Mercedes

1913
Wildewood (Vic) - Jack Day, Crossley

1915
Mt Cootha (Qld) - Boyd Edkins, Vauxhall

1917
Sand Pull (WA) - Eric Baker, Hudson, and Arthur Anderson, Overland

1919
22/2 Mount Street (WA) - Eric Baker, Hudson
Sand Pull (WA) - Eric Baker, Hudson
National Park (NSW) - Norman Smith

1922
Red Hill (WA) - Cyril Poole, Oakland

1925
Kurrajong (NSW) - Boyd Edkins, Vauxhall 30/98
Artillery Hill (NSW)
Lawnbrook Road (WA) - Ossie Cranston, Ford T special

1926
15/6 Brookvale (NSW) - abandoned after fatal accident
Red Hill (WA) - Ossie Cranston, Ford T special

1928
Red Hill (WA) - Arthur Colliver, Chrysler 70

1929
9/9 Prospect (NSW) - Charlie East, Bugatti T37
-/10 Kurrajong (NSW) - Bill Thompson, Bugatti 37A

1930
Prospect (NSW) - Jack Clements, Bugatti T30
Whittakers Hill (WA) - Ossie Cranston, Ford A special

1931
8/8 Kurrajong Hill (NSW) - A Hunter, Alfa Romeo 6C-1750)
(Vic) - Bob Lea-Wright, Bugatti
Lesmurdie (WA) - Ossie Cranston, Ford A special
Whittakers Hill (WA) - Ossie Cranston, Ford A special
Throssel’s (WA) - Ossie Cranston, Ford A special
Welshpool Road (WA) - Ossie Cranston, Ford A special
Bunbury (WA) - Ossie Cranston, Ford A special

1932
Robertson (NSW)
Mt Tarrangower (Vic)
Whittaker’s Hill (WA) - Cyril Poole, Bugatti T40

1933
Robertson (NSW)
-/9 Wiseman’s Ferry (NSW)
Mt Tarrangower (Vic)
Toodyay (WA) - Ossie Cranston, Ford V8 special

1934
Bar Beach (NSW)
Wiseman’s Ferry (NSW)
Mt Tarrangower (Vic)
Lesmurdie Road (WA) - Ossie Cranston, Ford V8 special

1935
-/4 Waitpinga (SA)
8/8 Kurrajong Hill (NSW)
Mt Tarrangower (Vic)

1936
Waterfall (NSW) - Lyster Jackson MG K3
Mt Tarrengower (Vic)
(Vic) - Lyster Jackson MG K3

1937
Waterfall (NSW) - Hope Bartlett, MG Q
1/2 Rob Roy (Vic)
29/3 Rob Roy (Vic) - Reg Nutt, Day Special, 35.42s
(Easter Saturday) Mt Clarence (WA) - Jack Nelson (Ballot V8)
12/5 Lobethal (SA)
Mt Tarrangower (Vic)
-/7 Waterfall (NSW) - Frank Kleinig, Kirby-Deering Special
Lobethal (SA)
Victoria Reservoir (WA) - Jack Nelson (Ballot V8)

1938
Waterfall (NSW)
Rob Roy (Vic)
13/6 Rob Roy (Vic) - Peter Whitehead, ERA, 31.46s
Mt Tarrangower (Vic)
-/10 Bathurst (NSW) - Frank Kleinig, Hudson Special

1939
Mt Tarrangower (Vic)
Clarence (WA) - Clem Dwyer, MG

1940
23/6 Rob Roy - Arthur Wylie, 29.47s.

#28 David McKinney

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Posted 13 April 2003 - 16:04

The monthly Australian Motor Sports is virtually the sole source for these events, plus Terry Walker’s Around the Houses

1945
Foley's Hill (NSW)

1946
1/1 Bathurst (NSW) - Frank Kleinig, Hudson Special
11/3 Foley's Hill (NSW) - Frank Kleinig, Hudson Special
8/4 Rob Roy (Vic) - Ted Gray, Alfa V8
17/6 Foley’s Hill (NSW) - Ron Ewing, Buick Special
17/6 Rob Roy (Vic) - Eddie Thomas, Ballot-V8
17/6 Glen Osmond (SA) - Ron Uffindell, MG K3
-/9 Cape Schank (Vic) - Earl Davey-Milne, Bugatti-Hudson T37
9/10 Glen Osmond (SA) - R G Pank, Lancia-Terraplane
24/11 Rob Roy (Vic) - Doug Head, Ford A speedcar

1947
5/4 Foley’s Hill (NSW) - Ron Ewing, Buick Special
5/4 Mt Tarrangower (Vic) - Clarrie Head, Ford A speedcar
19/4 Rob Roy (Vic) - Ernie Seeliger, Itala-V8
25/4 Wiseman’s Ferry (NSW)
4/5 Toodyay (WA) - Jack Nelson Ford 10 special s/c
Mt Helena (WA)
21/9 Rob Roy (Vic) - Doug Whiteford, Kaye Special
2/11 Australian Championship, Rob Roy (Vic) - Arthur Wylie, Ford A special
23/11 Parkerville (WA) - Barry Ranford, Mercury Special
30/11 Razorback (NSW) - George Reed, V8 special
13/12 White’s Hill (Qld) - Charlie Whatmore, Studebaker Special

1948
26/1 Hawkesbury (NSW) - Ray Mitchell Ford-Jeep
24/2 White’s Hill (Qld) - Charlie Whatmore, Studebaker Special
17/3 Mount Tarangower (Vic) - Ron Edgerton, Lycoming Special
(Easter Saturday) Rob Roy (Vic) - Tony Gaze, Alta
Box Hill (NSW) - Ray Mansell, Skate
Kelmscott (WA) - Arthur Collett, MG TC
2/5 Rob Roy (Vic) - Doug Whiteford. Kaye Special
16/5 Hawkesbury (NSW - Frank Kleinig, Hudson Special
14/6 Glen Ewin (SA) - Granton Harrison, V8 Special
8/8 Hawkesbury (NSW) - Jack Murray, Day Special
15/8 White’s Hill (Qld) - Charlie Whatmore, Studebaker Special
19/8 Hawkesbury (NSW - Frank Kleinig, Hudson Special
28/8 Glen Ewin (SA) - Harry Neale, Ford A midget
19/9 Rob Roy (Vic) - Arthur Wylie, Wyliecar
24/10 (NSW) - Gordon Nicol, SS 100
2/11 Australian Championship, Rob Roy (Vic) - Frank Kleinig, Hudson Special
13/11 Glen Ewin (SA) - Ron Uffindell, MG K3
21/11 Razorback (NSW)
27/11 Hurstbridge (Vic) - Cec Warren, Ford A midget

1949
31/1 Rob Roy (Vic) - Arthur Wylie, Wyliecar s/c
13/2 Foley’s Hill (NSW) - George Reed, Skate II
26/2 White’s Hill (Qld) - Charlie Whatmore, Studebaker Special
Turner’s Hill (WA) - Arthur Collet, MG TC
20/3 Australian Championship, Hawkesbury (NSW) - Frank Kleinig, Hudson Special
3/4 Hurstbridge (Vic) - Ron Baker, Ford A midget
20/5 Foley’s Hill (NSW) - George Reed, Monoskate
22/5 Rob Roy (Vic) - Charlie Dean, Maybach Special
5/6 Rob Roy (Vic) - Charlie Dean, Maybach Special
5/6 Drysdale (Vic) - Murray Rainey, midget
13/6 Hawkesbury (NSW) - Frank Kleinig, Hudson Special
17/6 Mount Tarrangower (Vic) - Charlie Dean, Maybach Special
16/7 Muddy Creek (Tas) - Bevan Murfett, Sunbeam-V8
4/9 NSW Championship, Hawkesbury - Frank Kleinig, Hudson Special
5/9 White’s Hill (Qld) - Charlie Whatmore, Studebaker Special
11/9 One Tree Hill (SA) - Ian Jackson, GN
18/9 Foley’s Hill (NSW) - Warwick Pratley, B8 special
25/9 Glen Ewin (SA) - Ian Jackson, GN
23/10 (NSW)
1/11 Australasian Championship, Rob Roy (Vic) - John Barraclough, MG K3
27/11 Hawkesbury (NSW) - Jack Hooper, Hooper 500
White’s Hill (Qld) - Charlie Whatmore, Studebaker Special
3/12 Punchbowl (Tas) - Bill Mitchell Vauxhall 30/98, and C G Prior, Ford Anglia
10/12 Rob Roy (Vic) - Tony Gaze, Alta sports

PS - I'm not sure of the spelling of some of these venues, particularly a Victorian one which I've seen as "Mount Tarrangower" often but also frequently as "Mount Tarrengower"

#29 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 April 2003 - 02:41

A whole stack of facts to fill in here...

Glen Ewin... was not that the road through the jam factory?

Artillery Hill was the climb from the weir in Royal National Park, IIRC... Clive knows more.

Kurrajong... yes, Kurrajong was indeed the climb up Bell's Line of Road, when it was gravel... Clive assured me of this.

Ferny Hills... I'll find out more, Barry Forsyth actually attended an event there and has a real live programme!

White's Hill... Barrie Watt certainly has stuff from that one.

John... 'From about Oxford Falls to the top of the hill' would amount to over a mile, perhaps a mile and a half. There's a climbing right hand bend, downhill a little along a straight of about half a mile, then a very long climb as you sweep to the left, levelling out as you cross French's Forest Road. I'd suggest that the finish line was at that intersection.

#30 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 April 2003 - 03:55

"One Tree Hill" as listed by David...

That was an older local name for Mt Coot-tha, the high point near Brisbane city that was, as Barry Forsyth told me yesterday, "the popular 'lover's lane' where you took your girlfriend on the back of your motorbike when you were young."

What could he have been talking about?

#31 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 14 April 2003 - 07:33

David - Thanks a great bunch for your New Zealand and Australian contribution. I will try to include all events you have listed. This looks like a good base to build on. The trouble with sources is that we need the primary sources, so others interested can do further studies later on. :)

#32 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 April 2003 - 07:47

When I get back to Harden in about a week's time, Hans, I can fill in the necessaries (times etc) for the 1946-49 Australian events listed.

Clive will give me more in a couple of weeks too.

#33 Paul Newby

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Posted 14 April 2003 - 08:01

Originally posted by Ray Bell
When I get back to Harden in about a week's time, Hans, I can fill in the necessaries (times etc) for the 1946-49 Australian events listed.


Ray

OT, I know. Do you live in Harden NSW? I went through the new abattoir there for work years ago (not a pleasant experience!) If so do you know the McKays, who own the local bearing business and runs an Alfa Romeo Berlina in Supersprints?

#34 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 April 2003 - 10:42

Yes, I chat with him occasionally... and no, I don't live there... I don't think...

Sometimes I'm there.

Another long chat with Barry Forsyth reveals this:

Daily Mail (Brisbane), April 2, 1928 tells of Brisbane accountant Harry Horstmann taking his Grand Prix Bugatti to a new record with a time of 89 seconds up the Mt Coot-tha (One Tree Hill) hillclimb.

If that was a Monday, Hans, I think you could safely take the date of the event to be the previous Saturday.

He also says he has a photocopy of a page of the paper with a photograph of the police (looking very old-style trooper-like) containing the crowd on horseback during a motorcycle run.

He is, of course, a motorcycle man. So he mentioned (at length) a climb that went from Coopers Camp Road at Ashgrove to the Paddington tram depot in 1915 (report in the Sports Referee of 24th July, 1915)... also an event the next year at Hitchcock Farm at or near Toowoomba, and he also said that motorcycles started running at Mt Coot-tha in 1916. Motorcycles also ran at Bardon, which John has some exciting video of... but that's from the mid-thirties.

#35 john medley

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 03:36

The list below is by no means complete, is biased towards NSW, some dates are uncertain, and comes from contemporary magazines {Australian Motorist, Australian Auto Trade Journal, Motor in Australia, The Car....} and newspapers {Sydney Morning Herald...}, and more modern books {Bob King Bugattis in Australasia, Vintage Sports Car Club histories, South Australian Sporting Car Club history...}. To my knowledge hill climbs that were part of a reliability trial or rally are marked *. State is shown N for New South Wales, Q for Queensland, V for Victoria, T for Tasmania, S for South Australia, W for Western Australia. Some annual events {eg: Mount Tarrangower / Tarrengower} 1920's - 1940's are not shown. Fastest time of day {ftd} was not always the winner, rather a handicap based on formula {hcp}. Hill distances were known to vary. So, E&OE...:
( first instalment)
1904
June Heidelberg V JR Crooke Locomobile
17/12 Norton Summit S "First Annual"

1905
July Wheelers V JW Moffat

1906
15/09 Heidelberg V WC Knight

1907
28/09 Artillery N Minerva 24hp 2:01

1908
9/09 Lilydale V "Handicap elimination pairs" ftd Banks Mercedes 60hp

#36 john medley

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 04:00

Instalment 2:
1908
26/09 Harland Rise T hcp Geo Cragg Buick
? Blytheswood Road T hcp Sir RC Baker Talbot " 3rd consecutive win.."
? Denison Road T hcp A Applegate Humber
ftd J Boag Clement Talbot

1909
Feb Artillery N ftd AV Turner Clement Talbot
15/11 Gap Hill , near Buttlejorrk V handicap pairs 51 entries

1910
4/03 Razorback N ftd LW Pye Vauxhall
5/03 Bald Hill N ftd LW Pye Vauxhall
25/06 Coogee N hcp JO Fairfax Vauxhall

1911
4/02 Artillery N hcp LW Pye Vauxhall
Easter Newstead V G Innes Humber
6/06 Deddington T hcp B Tevelein Standard
17/06 Skillion T hcp LF Piesse Itala
29/09 Macedon V hcp HV McKay Lanchester
ftd JW Moffatt Minerva

1912
10/02 Artillery N hcp LW Pye Vauxhall

#37 275 GTB-4

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 04:16

Originally posted by john medley
The list below is by no means complete, is biased towards NSW, some dates are uncertain, and comes from contemporary magazines {Australian Motorist, Australian Auto Trade Journal, Motor in Australia, The Car....} and newspapers {Sydney Morning Herald...}, and more modern books {Bob King Bugattis in Australasia, Vintage Sports Car Club histories, South Australian Sporting Car Club history...}. To my knowledge hill climbs that were part of a reliability trial or rally are marked *. State is shown N for New South Wales, Q for Queensland, V for Victoria, T for Tasmania, S for South Australia, W for Western Australia. Some annual events {eg: Mount Tarrangower / Tarrengower} 1920's - 1940's are not shown. Fastest time of day {ftd} was not always the winner, rather a handicap based on formula {hcp}. Hill distances were known to vary. So, E&OE...:
( first instalment)
1904
June Heidelberg V JR Crooke Locomobile
17/12 Norton Summit S "First Annual"

1905
July Wheelers V JW Moffat

1906
15/09 Heidelberg V WC Knight

1907
28/09 Artillery N Minerva 24hp 2:01

1908
9/09 Lilydale V "Handicap elimination pairs" ftd Banks Mercedes 60hp


For Mt Tarrangower do a google search on Maldon and say Hill Climb and a bunch of stuff comes up.

What about Mattara? The once a year festival in Newcastle with hillclimbs up from the beach - when did that start??

#38 john medley

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 04:18

Instalment 3:
1912
28/09 Carrington Road Coogee N hcp RA Carter Crossley
ftd RF Crouch Metz
19/10 Artillery N hcp JA Booth Humber
November ? N * hcp LW Pye Vauxhall

1913
March ? V * hcp WR Glasson Talbot
26/4 Artillery N hcp LW Pye Vauxhall
13/09 Wheelers V hcp H Andrews Hispano Suiza 100+ starters
ftd H Whiting Opel
18-20/09 ? N * AV Turner Benz
1/11 Artillery N hcp/ftd CJ Monro Vauxhall
8/11 Launceston T ftd C Rockcliffe Hudson 3:17
15/11 Artillery N hcp/ftd CJ Monro Vauxhall
6/12 Wildwood V hcp A Hoette Benz
ftd LM Whyte Hispano Suiza

1914
March Pretty Sally N * AV Turner Benz
Bulli Pass N * AV Turner Benz
28/03 Artillery N hcp AJ Christie Benz
? Razorback N * hcp P Meyer Benz
ftd B Edkins Vauxhall

#39 eldougo

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 04:50

:wave:
What about Mattara? The once a year festival in Newcastle with hillclimbs up from the beach - when did that start??

__________________


1951--------- RON WARD mgtc 67.72 sec . :up:

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#40 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 18:06

Originally posted by john medley
...Fastest time of day {ftd} was not always the winner, rather a handicap based on formula {hcp}. Hill distances were known to vary. So, E&OE...:

John - thanks for your contribution. What does "E&OE...:" stand for?
I take information in which ever form I get it. Basically I am interested in the FTD, hopefully with a definition of the car, instead of who won by HCP. But I take it all, even the little clubbies. :)

#41 john medley

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Posted 27 April 2003 - 22:39

One of the many gaps in my info is Mt Tarrangower year after year from the 20s, even though I know about George Pockett, Cec Warren, the Laity brothers all the way through to Stumpy Russell's performances these days. I simply havent seen each year's FTD record.
I think Mattara/ King Edward Park started 1951 ( John Crouch Cooper 59.20 ftd) so is outside Hans' target period.
E&OE is that old commercial copout code( on many a historic invoice!) for Errors and Omissions Excluded.
Some more, chronologically:
1914
? Governors N * hcp P Meyer Benz
ftd B Edkins Vauxhall
? ? T hcp M Eddie Benz
27/04 Wildwood V GF Syme Benz

1915
27/02 Station Hill T ( ladies only) Dorice Rolph Napier
17/04 ? Q ftd CJ Monro Vauxhall =
hcp B Edkins Vauxhall =
July ? T hcp F Gunn Daimler

1916
14/10 One Tree Hill( Mt Coot-ha) Q hcp AH Sagar Fiat
ftd FZ Eager Overland

#42 john medley

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 22:21

1918
15/06 Mt Coot-ha Q hcp AH Sagar Fiat
ftd GW Whatmore Fiat


1919
22/02 Perth W hcp Hudson
ftd Hudson
1/03 Artillery N ftd HJ Hunter Hudson
/o4 Bulli Pass N ftd AV Turner DFP
/05 Bulli Pass N * ftd CJ Monro
14/06 ? N * CO Sherwood Armstrong Whitworth
6/09 Artillery N ftd B Edkins
24/10 Bowenfels N * ftd B Edkins Vauxhall
? Wisemans Ferry N
6/12 Artillery N ftd B Edkins Vauxhall


1920
? Wildwood V ftd RT Lane Buick
J Brewster Hudson
/04 ? N * ftd CJ Monro Vauxhall
/04 Grafton N ftd FA Frewin Essex
22/05 Artillery N hcp CO Sherwood Armstrong Whitworth
ftd B Edkins Vauxhall
4/09 Kurrajong N * B Edkins Vauxhall
18-21/10 ? Q * B Edkins Vauxhall
23/10 Mt Coot-ha Q SC Ottoway Vauxhall

#43 john medley

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Posted 28 April 2003 - 22:54

1921
5/03 Bulli Pass N * B Edkins Vauxhall
2/04 Artillery N
13-14/05 ? N * NH Smith Essex
11/06 Kurrajong N * B Edkins Vauxhall
23/08 ? Toll Bar * both part of RACA/RACQ-organized interstate trial, Dr GE Manning
27/08 Cherry Hill * ( Vauxhall) ftd in both
22/10 postponed to 5/11 Artillery B Edkins Vauxhall
?/21 Mt Buffalo V * A Terdich Hudson
Whitfield V * A Hoette( driver AV Turner) Itala

1922
25/02 Bulli Pass N * NH Smith Essex
1/04 Wisemans Ferry N * A Mc Neil Fiat
?/04 Red Hill W C Poole Oakland
11/05 Kurrajong N * NH Smith Essex
9/08 Artillery N WM Walker Vauxhall
18-22/09 ? N * (2 hills) hcp AJ Soden Fiat ( both)
16-25/11 Bairnsdale V * A Terdich Essex
Cabungra V * HJ Lane Essex


1923
24/03 Broughton Pass N * NH Smith Essex
27-28/04 ? N * SC Ottoway Vauxhall

#44 john medley

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 00:44

17-21/09/23 ? N * hcp AG Barnard Fiat
? N * hcp C Woodhead Fiat
5/10 ? V A Terdich ( driver L E merson ) Hudson
9-10/11 ? N * WM Walker Vauxhall

1924
16-18/02 ? N *
? N *
6-14/03 ? V *
? V *
22/03 ? N *( Avon Dam )
3/05 ? N * ( Cataract Dam ) SC Ottoway Vauxhall
31/5- 1/6 N * Kurrajong F Berry Alvis/F Hill Alvis
N * Wisemans Ferry H Bartlett Vauxhall
16/08 Artillery N AV Turner Itala
( also shown as B Edkins Vauxhall 61.6)
11/09 Artillery N ( " Aust. Hillclimb Championships") B Edkins( driver CF Sanderson) Vauxhall 61.1
?/09 RACA 6 Day Trial Artillery N * hcp AG Barnard FIat
? N * hcp AV Turner Itala
4/10 Malpas V H Cooper Ballot 1:09.8
19-26/11 RACV 1000 Mile Trial V * Mt St Bernard hcp M Shmith Fiat
Whitfield hcp M Shmith Fiat
22/11 Waterfall N * AV Turner Itala 71s
13/12 Mt Grant, Maryville V

#45 Hans Etzrodt

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 06:03

John - presently, my list of Australian hill climbs includes the 125 events contributed by David McKinney. I will diligently add, whatever you submit here. BUT, But, but... bear in mind that my main interest here is FTD and with that I want to provide at least also a description of the car, whether racing, sports or touring. 'Stock' does not mean anything to me but can be converted to 'R' for racing car, 'S' for sports car or 'T' for touring car, whichever fits best. In case we don't know, we apply a '?'. I am still contemplating how I should handle all your handicap events because I don't really want those in my list. I have already ignored the 50,000 British handicap hill climbs, or were there even more?? ;) These tiny clubbies had nothing to do with what the rest of the world did in hill climbing. My list is an international hill climb list and to my knowledge, outside the Commonwealth, handicaps were not really popular. We have here a great quantity of tiny events and treat them all with equal importance. Was there a difference in quality? Which were the important courses/events?

#46 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 07:21

Hans...

Of the ones John has mentioned so far, I would say (my personal view here, bearing in mind the public standing of the location or the longivity of the event, or the traditions that sprang therefrom) that Tarrengower stands tall. Mt Coot-tha (don't forget that second 't') was very public and had a long life, it seems, while Artillery Hill (Royal National Park) had a significant life and standing.

Kurrajong was on a main road, so must have been a big deal, likewise for Bulli Pass, while Wiseman's Ferry was a popular outing destination for well heeled families and would have to be considered a big event to allow that access road to be closed for hillclimbing.

Then again, what can one say about Pretty Sally and Razorback? Presumably they were the same bits of road we've all known all our lives, one near each end of the Hume Highway, the busiest intercity road in our country!

It would be interesting to know how far back The Domain climb in Hobart went, as it may well be one of the unidentified ones from the turn of the century and was still running, IIRC, into the sixties.

#47 Catalina Park

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 08:01

Could Razorback have been the "Old Razorback" that was used in countless rallys and navigation trials? When did the old road get bypassed by the newer one? (I don't mean the M5!)

#48 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 09:16

It could have been, but it's unlikely it was bypassed before the thirties.

#49 275 GTB-4

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 11:29

[QUOTE]Originally posted by john medley
[B]1921
5/03 Bulli Pass N * B Edkins Vauxhall
1922
25/02 Bulli Pass N * NH Smith Essex

Absolutely facinating, Bulli would have been graded dirt in those days??? I can vividly remember attacking the pass in the dickie seat of many an old tourer, racing (friendly) Renault 750s in the Morrie and umpteen dozen other times (where I actually got to drive!) in more modern cars and motorcycles. A great hill, would love to have been there!!!! :rotfl:

#50 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 April 2003 - 20:31

I've no doubt you've also been up Kurrajong, Broughton's Pass, Robertson and Wiseman's Ferry as well...

Much of this is so well forgotten... have you been up the road from Agnes Banks to Springwood? The piece of road where Jack Brabham made his road racing debut?