17 replies to this topic

[WGD706]

Question put to Nigel Roebuck concerning Jo Siffert and his plans for 1972 and what impact have had..........
I recently stumbled across the fact that Jo Siffert's death in the Brands Hatch Victory Meeting took place on October 24th, 1971, long since past the time of year when drivers solidify their plans for the coming season. Who was he going to drive for in sports cars in '72, seeing as how Porsche wouldn't be supporting the 3-litre Championship of Makes? Would he have had an impact on Emerson Fittipaldi's world title in F1 or do you think Porsche would have stumped for him to be Mark Donohue's team mate in Can-Am?

Interesting question - and it brings back that gorgeous autumn day at Brands, when the perfect blue sky was suddenly adulterated by a thick cloud of black smoke, and at the same time there was that worst of all sounds at a race track: silence.
What were Jo Siffert's plans for 1972? All I can tell you for certain is that certainly he was going to stay with BRM for Formula 1. As you say, Porsche, disgusted by the imposition of the 3-litre limit in World Championship sports car racing, had already announced that they would not compete in the '72 championship, but I've no doubt that Seppi would have picked up a ride somewhere, perhaps with Ferrari, perhaps with Matra, perhaps with Alfa Romeo.
Siffert was very different from today's breed of racing driver, in that he loved to compete in different categories of racing, and did not concentrate on F1 to the exclusion of all else. For him, a weekend without a race was a weekend lost: over time he did F1, F2, sports car racing, and the Can-Am, and I've no doubt that he would have had a very full programme in 1972.
Would he have had an impact on Fittipaldi's title aspirations that year? Honestly, no, I don't think so - after all, even Jackie Stewart and a Tyrrell-Cosworth couldn't keep Emerson from winning the title! I'm sure Siffert would have been highly competitive in some of the races, and might even have won one or two, but, day in, day out, a BRM P160 was not a match for a Lotus 72.
It's an interesting point you make about Seppi's possibly partnering Mark Donohue in the Penske-run Porsche Can-Am team. He had previously driven a hybrid non-turbocharged 917 'roadster' in the Can-Am, and thoroughly enjoyed the experience (particularly at Bridgehampton, which he thought as great a circuit as ever he'd driven on), and it's certainly not beyond the bounds of possibility that Porsche - who were devoted to Siffert - would have persuaded Roger Penske that here was the perfect team mate for Donohue. Seppi in a 917/10 would have been worth going a long way to see...


What wondrous things we can imagine, if history had changed its' course.
Warren

[Viss1]

Interesting. Donahue's engineering involvement would have likely resulted in a #1 situation for him... only to see him lose the title to Siffert as a result of his sitting out part of the season.

[Ray Bell]

Or raw driving ability allied with super competitiveness?

Just what difference Seppi's continued presence in F1 might have made is indeed an interesting question...

What if he'd gone to Lotus in 1974, for instance, or replaced Hulme at McLaren?

[Anorak Man]

I'd seen F1 on the box and craved it since my days in short pants, but had to wait until my teenage years to see a moving F1 car 'in the flesh'.

It was a chilly morning long before the punters arrived for practice at the Oulton Park Gold Cup.
Standing alone on the outside of Old Hall, with not a soul in sight, I heard the approach of a snarling BRM V12 ... and my hackles rose. It takes a V12 to do that eh?

I'd still not caught a glimpse of an F1 car in action.

The only car on the circuit snaked its way through Lodge Corner and the kinks, zinging through the gears in a thrilling crescendo.

I was almost on tip-toes waiting for it to appear.

Nothing prepared me for the experience, it was quite simply stunning, breathtaking.

The white Yardley BRM speared directly towards me like a bolt of white-lightning, without a hint of braking or diminishing it's phenomenal velocity.

Frozen to the spot, I pulled my head into my Belstaff Anorak, as if to protect myself from the inevitable accident.

"He just CANNOT go round the corner THAT fast. It's just impossible!" I thought.

He did.

It was Seppi, ... and I was hooked.

I'd finally seen an F1 car in action.


AM

[Twin Window]

That's a super recollection from your youth, Anorak! I suspect that all of us got 'hooked' through some similar experience. I'm not surprised that the experience made you a big fan of Seppi's as a result.

Funnily enough, my first 'live' racing experience was also at Oulton at an F5000 race, and also in '71! I was already hooked from magazines and the like, but I too remember my defining moment which was seeing a photo of Fittipaldi totally sideways that made me think 'how do they do that? It looks FANTASTIC!!'

So, when I finally got to a race, the first thing that hit me was how small the cars were! Then, of course, there was the noise, the speed, the atmosphere... everything!

Sadly there was a fatality in that race (Peter Hawtin) which also left a big impression on me. I'd watched from Lodge, but after the races I remember asking one of the BBC workers packing up their equipment (they were encamped right by the scene, by coincidence, at Hill Top near where my parents' car was parked) about the condition of driver who'd crashed, and this long-haired, hippy-type's blunt retort was simply "he's dead". In those days you were led to feel that you 'could never trust a hippy' therefore I didn't take him at his word, but of course it was indeed the case...

Great, if not sometimes sad, days.

TW

[Twin Window]

I've realised that I got quite carried away and misty-eyed just then, as I'd originally meant to include a comment on Siffert regarding 1972...!!

One thing that never seems to get any recognition is that Seppi was the man who introduced Philip Morris (Marlboro) to Formula 1.

They were based in Lausanne, in his native country of Switzerland, and initially he ran a logo on his March 701's nose plus a patch on his overalls during 1970. As far as I'm aware, Marlboro's next move was to arrange personal deals with Denny Hulme and Peter Revson for patches on their USAC McLaren overalls for 1971, plus a continued deal with Siffert seeing the patch on his BRM overalls plus logos on the bodywork of his Can-Am Porsche.



Clearly, he was intended to be a main part of the picture with BRM for '72, and had been fundimentally influential in getting Marlboro on board as the team's major backer - but, frankly, I can't see them not having kept heim regardless.

Had he lived on, it seems completely logical for him to have gone to McLaren in '74; but sadly, this is pure conjecture. It might be worth remembering that, with Seppi gone, Marlboro effectively identified Emerson Fittipaldi as there 'chosen one' and as I recall gave him the choice of teams to go to with their backing. At one point, the really smart money was on Tyrrell - and I still have my sketch of what the car would have looked like with it's new driver/sponsor combination!!

TW

[SEdward]

I will never forget October 24, 1971.

I was standing at Hawthorn's when Seppi went off. The rest was awful. I could not stand to watch the remaining races that day. I got on my bike and rode home.

It was a glorious autumn afternoon. By pure chance, I was standing next to a die-hard Seppi fan who shouted "The Master" every time he drove by. Unless I'm mistaken, he crashed on lap 14. I can still see all the F1 cars parked between the bridge on Pilgrims Drop and Hawthorn's. He was on pole, but he fluffed the start and was dithering midfield when he went off. Gethin and Fittipaldi were fighting for the lead.

While Siffert may not have been one of the best, he was one of the finest.

Edward.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Twin Window
At one point, the really smart money was on Tyrrell - and I still have my sketch of what the car would have looked like with it's new driver/sponsor combination!!

TW

The other alternative was apparently Brabham; I think the BT44 would've looked equally good in that colour scheme. I don't suppose you've scanned your Texaco-Marlboro-Tyrrell have you?;)

[Twin Window]

I haven't, Peter, and it could take yonks to actually find it! I know I've still got it, however, as I never throw anything away...

I'll pass it on if I come across it!

TW

[SEdward]

BTW,

He would not have gone to Matra in 72, because I think that they only did one race that year.

Edward.

[fausto]

Originally posted by WGD706
...................................
What were Jo Siffert's plans for 1972? All I can tell you for certain is that certainly he was going to stay with BRM for Formula 1. As you say, Porsche, disgusted by the imposition of the 3-litre limit in World Championship sports car racing, had already announced that they would not compete in the '72 championship, but I've no doubt that Seppi would have picked up a ride somewhere, perhaps with Ferrari, perhaps with Matra, perhaps with Alfa Romeo.
.................................
Warren

I remember that he had signed with Alfa Romeo (at that time I was a young kid mad for sportprotoype racing and Alfa Romeo.....)

[Mohican]

I also remember Autosport reports that Siffert had signed for Alfa Romeo for '72, as it surprised me at the time - given that the Ferrari 312 PB was so much faster than the Alfa 33 in '71. The Alfa was reliable, and even won at Watkins Glen (driven by Ronnie Peterson, of course), but the Ferrari was much faster.

Certainly Ronnie saw that difference, and went to Ferrari for '72; when the sportscar scene was completely dominated by Ferrari.

[Keir]

That era was a real joke for sportscar fans. Ferrari was head and shoulders above everyone else. Then it was Matra's turn, then Renault ........

[Mohican]

In the three preceding years, 1969-71, Porsche won everything...

[Keir]

..... But there were some great races if not great competition !!

[Martyj]

Not to get off topic here...but if Siffert was to stay with BRM in 1972, who else was part of the team's 72 plans as the 1971 season ended? Gethen as #2? Beltiose ended up as BRM #1, but did he have to quit Matra to do that, or was he already out of a ride at the end of 71, and the opening at BRM just fell his way. Or, did BRM already have Beltiose on board, and 72 was going to be Siffert, Beltiose, and Gethen?

[philippe7]

Matra had decided to run a minimum Formula 1 effort in 1972, with one single car, in order to devote most of their time and effort to their full-scale attack on Le Mans . I assume Beltoise was advised by Matra to look elsewhere, since Chris Amon was nominated for the F1 seat.

As to the plans for Peter Gethin, I have no idea.....

[rl1856]

Another interesting "What If" question-

I think the betting money is that he would have driven a BRM in '72. To what end, we do not know. The car and engines were very little different from '71 and except for Monaco, were uncompetative. Would Seppi have had an impact on developement ? Would he have been able to pursuade L Stanley to focus on just 2 cars ? We do not know.

Interesting that he had reportedly signed with Alfa for sports cars. Even in '71, the writing was on the wall that the Ferrari was the better 3ltre car.

Best,

Ross