64 replies to this topic

[Tomas Karlsson]

Moss pushed the car over the line in Monaco for ninth, but, according to some sources, wasn't classified because he had done to few laps. Did he get some finishing-money, or why did he bother?

[Graham Clayton]

During the Sports Car Club of America meeting at the Bergstrom AFB in Austin Texas on the 27th of March, 1954, Bill Betts pushed his 750cc Giaur across the line of the 100 mile race for Class F production cars and under 1100cc modified cars, after the car stopped 100 yards short of the finish. Despite having a broken ankle caused by a crash in practice, Betts finished sixth after his exertions. For his effort and perserverance, he was awarded the Sportsmanship award at the Victory Dinner.

[ensign14]

Moss pushed the car over the line in Monaco for ninth, but, according to some sources, wasn't classified because he had done to few laps. Did he get some finishing-money, or why did he bother?

Bit late, but Monaco seemed to class everyone who made the chequer as a finisher, from memory in the aforementioned work there is an officially typed listing of finishers from the 1960 race that goes down to 44 laps behind. But the Black Books and other works applied an unhistorical 90% distance requirement to all races in the past regardless of actual regualation.

[D-Type]

Rules varied from race to race and with time, eg

(1) Only cars that actually crossed the line after the winner were classified as finishers. If a car was stopped on the circuit you wasn't a finisher. Hence pushing to the line to push it over after the winner had taken the chequered flag.
(2) Variation to (1) the final lap only counted if it took less than a specified time. Depending on how the rule was written, this could mean being classified as a finisher with one less lap or not being classified.
(3) Cars are credited with the number of completed laps. Basically this is the modern rule. A car could be on the bottom of Manaco Harbour having gone in on its last lap and be classified ahead of someone who fcrossed the finishing line after the winner but two laps behind.
(4) Variation to (1) and (2) where to be classified as a finisher a car had to cover a certain number of laps
(5) The old Indianapolis system where the track remained open for a certain time after the winner crossed the line and cars continued to circulate so a driver cowould be classified as completing 200 laps in a time greater than (the winner's time plus the time for one or more laps) then finally the real tail enders would be flagged off. This gets complex as a driver who retired on lap 196 would be classified ahead of someone who was flagged off at 195 laps as he had done the 195 laps faster but behind someone who had done 195 laps when the winner crossed the line and gone on to do another two laps before being flagged off and credited with 197 laps despite covering 195 laps slower than the retired car. (at least I think that's correct)

Edited by D-Type, 09 March 2012 - 13:15.

[D-Type]

On a different tack, at one time the Safari regulations forbade a car being towed, except for a short distance out of a mud hole. One car broke a half shaft near the finish and could not travel under its own power. So a service car pushed it for 50 miles or so. As the rules didn't forbid it, the organisers had to classify it as a finisher.

[uechtel]

Rules varied from race to race and with time, eg

(1) Only cars that actually crossed the line after the winner were classified as finishers. If a car was stopped on the circuit you wasn't a finisher. Hence pushing to the line to push it over after the winner had taken the chequered flag.
(2) Variation to (1) the final lap only counted if it took less than a specified time. Depending on how the rule was written, this could mean being classified as a finisher with one less lap or not being classified.
(3) Cars are credited with the number of completed laps. Basically this is the modern rule. A car could be on the bottom of Manaco Harbour having gone in on its last lap and be classified ahead of someone who fcrossed the finishing line after the winner but two laps behind.
(4) Variation to (1) and (2) where to be classified as a finisher a car had to cover a certain number of laps
(5) The old Indianapolis system where the track remained open for a certain time after the winner crossed the line and cars continued to circulate so a driver cowould be classified as completing 200 laps in a time greater than (the winner's time plus the time for one or more laps) then finally the real tail enders would be flagged off. This gets complex as a driver who retired on lap 196 would be classified ahead of someone who was flagged off at 195 laps as he had done the 195 laps faster but behind someone who had done 195 laps when the winner crossed the line and gone on to do another two laps before being flagged off and credited with 197 laps despite covering 195 laps slower than the retired car. (at least I think that's correct)

(6) = (3) combined with (4) and (2) - Cars are credited the number of completed laps, but to get classified have to complete a certain number of laps, with a time limit for the last lap (which in my opinion is the "modern" rule, at least in F1. I think your description of (3) is the "modern" Indianapolis rule)

Also I remember to have read, that Monaco switched from (1) or maybe (2) to (6) for the 1966 season. It became evident, because the result was only four "finishers" in that race.

Edited by uechtel, 12 March 2012 - 08:46.

[Glengavel]

On a different tack, at one time the Safari regulations forbade a car being towed, except for a short distance out of a mud hole. One car broke a half shaft near the finish and could not travel under its own power. So a service car pushed it for 50 miles or so. As the rules didn't forbid it, the organisers had to classify it as a finisher.

That reminds me of a story (apocryphal?) about a Mini that finished the Monte Carlo Rally with a few surreptitious shoves from one of the Austin service barges.

[Tim Murray]

Certainly not apocryphal. The Mini of Paddy Hopkirk and Ron Crellin broke a driveshaft at the end of the last special stage on the 1967 Rallye dei Fiori. As they were around 20km (and two time controls) away from the finish, with not enough time to change the shaft, the Princess R service barge 'assisted' him to the finish. Luckily the road was mainly downhill, so where it mattered the Princess would drop back to make it look as if the Mini was proceeding under its own steam. They finished 2nd overall (and would almost certainly have won without the problem).

[Ray Bell]

1976 International series in New Zealand...

Paul Bernasconi was driving the second Max Stewart T400. At Teratonga he suffered fuel pump trouble and pitted quite early in the race. As the winner crossed the line he was pushing the car on the edge of the track to cross the line, but was unable to be counted as a finisher because he'd not covered sufficient distance.

Edited by Ray Bell, 12 March 2012 - 22:36.

[David McKinney]

There was no Tasman Cup series in 1976....

[Michael Ferner]

There was no Tasman Cup series in 1976....

Classical David!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by David McKinney
There was no Tasman Cup series in 1976....

Oh, how easy it is to slip up!

Corrected, thank you David...

[David McKinney]

To be honest Ray, I had to think long and hard before my post

1976 was the last year there was an NZ international 5000 series - but a separate one in Australia. 1975 was the last year the two countries' races ran together for the Tasman Cup

[Ray Bell]

Exactly...

I've been living, breathing and sleeping the F5000 stuff lately and I knew it well, but it's just that it was just the one year where there were eight races for the F5000s between the two countries and it simply wasn't the Tasman Cup.

Shows how destructive the combined decisions of the CAMS and the MANZ could be. Such a good thing destroyed.

[David McKinney]

The belief in NZ after the 1975 Tasman was that it couldn't continue in that form - the 1976 NZ series confirmed that. Australia, with more money, was able to go it alone for a few more years before that series, too, had to end