30 replies to this topic

[Joe Fan]

I am trying to find some old out-of-print racing books and some old Car and Driver magazines. Does anyone know of any good sources? I am already aware of E-Bay auctions, Barnes and Noble.com, Amazon.com and EWACARS.com.

[Ray Bell]

Why not try a 'wanted' ad in one of those magazines?

[Alfisti]

try a want ad in any motorsport paper.

[Paul Hartshorne]

Have you tried http://www.collectors-carbooks.co.uk? They have a shop near Bedford in the UK and have a large selection of out-of-print books books and magazines. Some are well overpriced, but there are bargains to be found. I pop in whenever I'm passing.

Paul

[Ray Bell]

I need the Autosport report of the 1965 AGP... early March, any suggestions?
Photocopies will do, faxed copies, even emailed copies... all gratefully accepted.

[Joe Fan]

Thanks for the leads guys. I am having troubles locating a Car and Driver October 1965 issue. I am not sure that you would be able to find a back issue this old very easily but I will keep trying.

[Joe Fan]

Ray, that site that Paul Hartshorne suggested in the thread above supposedly has Autosport magazines from that year.

[Eagle104]

Joe Fan: There's a guy who shows at the Memorabilia Show in Indy each year who has a large collection of old mags. I know, because he has alot of my money!

"The Yellow Dog Garage"...Bruce Perry...Bradford PA...814-368-3208

ps: gotta get back to work now.;)
Watch your mail this week. Should go out tomorrow.

note to moderator: hope this advert is ok..if not, I'm sorry..delete as neccessary..just don't yell at me.

[Ray Bell]

Looking for a Le Mans report, Joe?

[Joe Fan]

Eagle, thanks a bunch for your help!

Ray, I have all the 1965 Le Mans articles I need but in this October 1965 issue of Car and Driver, there is a two page Ad by Goodyear of Masten's winning Ferrari. Plus a Driver of the Year ballot form in this mag that lists Masten as one of the drivers. It is pretty cool since it shows a picture of LBJ and states, "How would you like it if Lyndon B. Johnson got elected Driver of the Year?" Then it states, "Don't let the wrong guy win!" and then lists a bunch of drivers like Masten, Jim Clark, Foyt, Andretti, Graham Hill, Dan Gurney, etc. I would like to have an actual copy of the magazine since all I have are black and white photo copies of these.

[Ray Bell]

Why not try to get Goodyear in on your deal... try through them or their advertising agency - you never know, they might even have the art material for the ad and be willing to contribute it to your effort.

[green-blood]

Go to Simon Lewis, his site is regularly updated he carries a large stock of second hand books, mags and related autobilia.

http://www.simonlewis.com/

I wonder if I'll get a discount?????????

[GaryG]

Joe Fan: Don't know where you are located. I'm in Connecticut and each year Lime Rock Park has a vintage racing weekend and swap meet. Lots of vendors with quite a few selling books & mags. You might find out if there is something like this held near you. I try to make it each year & have regularly added to my collections.

Also, if you go to most any large used book dealer, they'll be tied into a national book search service. I picked up The Unfair Advantage by Mark Donohue this way a few years ago and it's probably the most valuable book I have right now.[p][Edited by GaryG on 06-12-2000]

[Barry Lake]

Joe Fan
Try Kenneth Ball at autobooks@autobooks.co.uk (e-mail address, he doesn't have a web site).
He has the largest selection of used motoring books in the UK. I have dealt with him for many years with no problems at all. He gives a very good service.
I used to think his prices were high - until I just looked at that collectors-books site, phew!
You can mention my name - it won't help you or I on price, but I like to let him know I appreciate his good service...

[Dennis David]

Joe, I would try these two sources for the OP Books: http://www.bibliofind.com/ and http://www.abebooks.com/ first. These are the first two places that I look then I use warth@pioneerplanet.infi.net.

[Joe Fan]

Thanks for the leads guys, I have located the out of print book I am looking for, The Cruel Sport. However, I'm still searching for that Car and Driver Oct 1965 mag.

[Gerr]

Joe Fan: For "out of print" try http://wilkinsonsauto.com/
Very good service and prices,great inventory.
Re: C/D, check this out.http://www.vintageautoracing.com/msgthread.cfm?threadid=1096&messages=2
Your lucky day?
Re:"The Cruel Sport" Try and get "Autoweek" April 7/86.
It has a great article about the author and the books
effect since publication. Did you know it was the base
for the film "Grand Prix"?
Gerr

[Jonathan]

Hey Joe -

Sorry I didnt read this thread earlier. I got the Oct 1965 C&D right here in front on me. It features a yellow Ferrari 275/GTS with a read head & a cop on the cover. While you cant have mine, I would be happy to make copies of any particular articles you are looking for...

- Jonathan

[Ray Bell]

Maybe a nice laminated colour photocopy would do the trick?
It is a colour ad you want, isn't it Joe?

[Joe Fan]

Jonathan, thanks for the offer but I already have black and white photocopies of some the stuff I am interested in from that magazine. Since you have this copy can you tell me whether page 28-29 in color or black and white? Also I am assuming that the Car and Driver of the Year contest Ad came out of the same issue. It has a picture of LBJ and states, "How would you like it if Lyndon B. Johnson got elected Driver of the Year?" Then it states, "Don't let the wrong guy win!" and then lists a bunch of drivers like Masten, Jim Clark, Foyt, Andretti, Graham Hill, Dan Gurney, etc. Can you see if it is in this issue and what page it is on? If I purchase this magazine from somewhere I want to stipulate that those pages are in perfect condition. Also, is there anything else in the magazine about Masten's 1965 Le Mans win?

Ray, I think I might have anwered your last question above. I have already located a color picture of the 1965 Le Mans winning NART Ferrari but I would like to have this Masten nostalgia type stuff for myself.

Gerr, thanks for finding that Ad. Looks like that guy might be getting an e-mail from me soon. I do remember reading somewhere that "Grand Prix" was based on that book but I had forgotten this.[p][Edited by Joe Fan on 06-15-2000]

[Jonathan]

Joe -

The LBJ advertisement (only a 3rd collumn on the page) is on Page 81. In addition to the drivers you mentioned, they also suggested "Donna Mae Mims" (a somewhat colourfull SCCA competitor ?)

(I would like to know more about this woman !)

The double page Goodyear ad is in Black & White and features a somewhat poor rendition (grainey) photo of the #21 NART Maston & Rindt Ferrari.

I did see a "Shell" ad featuring Ferrari's very own Maranello Shell gas station (with a Ferrari 250/LM pulled up to the pumps).

While I haven't scoured the issue looking for references to Masten Gregory I didn't see anything obviously featuring him. There is a brief Summary of the Britsh, French & Dutch GPs (Silverstone, Clermount, Zandvoort all won by Clark in a Lotus), a reveiw of a "Lackluster" Reims 12 race (won by a NART Ferrari 265/P2 of Rodriguez/Guichet - I had never heard of "Guichet"); and a review of the Firecracker 400 (Won by Foyt) that features a photo of a very young Cale Yarborough explaining to (Dale?) Dieringer how his engine blew up...

All the Photos of the Competition Ferraris are in Black & White so I can't say for sure but it appears the the NART Ferraris are red (I thought the NART Ferraris were yellow ?)

And just to put your mind at ease this issue of mine is in no way 'perfect condition' (dog-eared edges, Yellowed pages wrinkles & faint smells of mildue, and there is some yellowed former 'scotch tape' sticky-goo on some pages)...

[Joe Fan]

Jonathan thanks for the information. Here is a picture of the 1965 Le Mans winning Ferrari. http://www.uic.edu/~wap/275LM.JPEG

[Ray Bell]

Shame that pic doesn't show the nose, for that was the only visible difference between any of the cars in the 250/275LM run. Was it the model with the smaller air intake?

[Joe Fan]

Ray, I have seen this car listed as a "250" but the majority of the information I have seen in Le Mans review articles state that the car was a "275."

[Ray Bell]

The point is that Ferrari was hoodwinking the FIA homologation people. He did this, reputedly, with the GTO, something like: "Come into this shed and count these cars... very nice, there's 50 there... ah, now have a cup of espresso, we take you to see the rest once we have the cake and espresso." Then the process was repeated at another shed, to which the same cars had been removed during the coffee break. 100 was the homologation figure.
The FIA were understandably miffed at this subterfuge, but found out too late (ie. later than they could expose Ferrari and not lose face), so they were harder when it came to the 250LM. The numbers were there, but at some point Ferrari decided they needed the 3.3 engine and he wanted the homologation to carry through... that is, he wanted to make it look like they were all 275s (275 x 12 = 3275cc, 250 x 12 = 3000cc)... many of the cars may have been upgraded to the bigger engine, but maybe not all of them.
BTW - how many GTOs are there now?

[Roger Clark]

It's difficult to believe that Ferrari produced sufficient of any of the LM series to qualify as a GT car.

It was this incident that led to his handing in his entrant's licence and the F1 cars racing in American colours (NART) at Watkins Geln and Mexico in 1964.

[Don Capps]

Due to the usual chaos & confusion, although only the initial few were actually 3-litre "250LM" and the whole bunch of the rest 3.3-litre cars, the "275LM" was never used by Ferrari -- there were enough problems as there were with the ultimately unsuccessful homologation without changing the name. Besides, as Ferrari discovered, if you're going to buy someone, make sure they stay bought!!!! The ACI pulled the rug from under him and we were treated to a wonderful few races of the GP cars in NART colors...

The CSI was a clueless organization then and about as proficient as the Three Stooges in runing international racing and nowhere as entertaining as the fore-mentioned gentlemen. BTW, the GTO was allowed in under the CSI rules (as far anyone could tell...) since it was development of the 250GT series.... I don't have my 250GT books with me, but the numbers 36 or 38 seem to be the total of 250GTOs produced. Henry N. Manney III owned one, a possession he never hesitated to express his regrets about...

Donna Mae Mims, the Think Lady who won the SCCA NAtional Championship for H Production in a livid pink Sprite... And she could actually race pretty darn good since no one cut her any slack. SCCA production racing was a cut-throat business and Donna Mae was not going to be tossed any gimmes.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Here is an updated list of bookstores.
I believe the top six stores are your best bet to find out of print books.

http://collectors-carbooks.co.uk?
http://www.simonlewis.com/
http://www.abebooks.com/
http://www.alibris.com/
http://www.bibliofind.com/
http://www.tavaresmotorsport.com/

http://www.autoboek.com/
http://www.antiqbook.com/
http://www.amazon.co...ats-query-page/
http://www.ebay.com/
http://www.atlasf1.c...tore/index.html
http://www.motorbooks.com/
http://wilkinsonsauto.com/

[Maldwyn]

Try http://freespace.vir...mon.lewisbooks/

[Hans Etzrodt]

Maldwyn,
Try my second web site, it is the same as yours. Funny!

[GT Action Photo]

To Joe Fan,
Two good sources for old magazines and out of print books are:

Autoknow
http://home.att.net/~autoknowstore/
http://home.att.net/~vlvba/mags.htm

Voss Motors
http://www.books4cars.com/

Disclaimer: No direct or indirect endorsement or
relationship with GT Action Photo.



Ferrari 250 LeMans s/n 5893 GT
1965 LeMans 24 Hr.Winning Car
At the Indianapolis Speedway Museum

Photo: GT Action Photo



Donna Mae Mims (Think Pink)
Austin-Healey Sprite (SCCA HP Class)
Road America June Sprints
1963 SCCA National Champ

Photo: GT Action Photo

Donna Mae was one tough racer that hung with the Yenko crowd.Note the air horns between the headlights.

With kind regards,
Gary Trobaugh