50 replies to this topic

[BorderReiver]

Hey everyone, forgive me if this has been asked before.

While browsing few a couple of books today I came across a picture of Gilles Villeneuve with his bloodtype prominantly displayed on his overalls. This set me thinking. I wonder if you can help me with two things.

How many drivers bloodtypes are known, is so what are they? And also, how was this information displayed, did every driver have to do it etc. I have of course seen the picture which I referred to above, but there is also a bit in "Grand Prix" where the drivers are seen putting on ID bracelets etc. Is this practice still carried out today?

I'm not a deranged Vampire by the way, I'm just curious.

[2F-001]

The theory behind this, as I'm sure you can imagine, is to speed things up in the event of a driver needing to given blood as the result of an injury. But I've always wondered if this wasn't a bit of an affectation (and at lesser levels of racing, a bit of posturing?) and thus a bit pointless - I'd always understood that a medical practitioner would not give blood unless bloodgroup test had been administered (unless, in absolute emergency - perhaps at the trackside, giving a blood type acceptable to all or most)... I would imagine that in recent Formula One racing such info would be lodged with organisers' medical teams anyway... and that at lower down the foodchain a test would be essential - it wouldn't be the first time someone had raced in borrowed overalls.

[BorderReiver]

Well I've certainly never worn anything with my blood type on when racing, or even told any organizers or anything. Granted my exploits don't even rate on the back page of the local free paper, but I have seen blood on a race-track before. I can't ever recall filling in a form where I have to list my bloodtype, perhaps it is just pretention as you say 2F.

[Ray Bell]

Well, it was no unique thing for a driver to have it...

I recall seeing a few displayed.

I remember also a comment from Jackie Stewart about the bracelets. He spoke of the risk with these, of being 'degloved' in an accident... the 'glove' about which he was speaking being the one of real human skin.

[Vitesse2]

Just looked through a few 60s F1 pics - not much evidence of blood groups on overalls then. Wasn't this somehow connected to Big Lou's GP Medical Unit? IIRC some organisers were short-sighted enough not to let it attend, so this may have been a way of making sure the local medical guys got the idea?

Actually, thinking about it, wasn't it more common in sports cars?

[2F-001]

There was a time when loads of drivers seemed to have a bloodgroup embroidered on overalls in large-ish capital letters - these days there is so much brandinding on the things you'd scarcely notice!

If you buy a racesuit now from one of the regular distributors (especially if it's a made-to-measure one, but on of the shelf jobs too) one of the standard options is embroidering a name... and a bloodgroup. So I guess lots of folk still do it - I just haven't taken much notice lately. Most usual position seems to be on the waistband; but oddly, the standard offering seems to be using an really fine script typeface, which seems a bit dumb - like nobody was expected to read it anyway!

[char76]

In the eighties and before,I was under the impression that gettting your blood group on your overalls was a requirement if you attain a certain level of drivers license. IIRC that was Int.C. In fact, was not it part of the medical you had to under go?

[BorderReiver]

What about drivers blood types?

Gilles Villeneuve was famously A rhesus +

I think James hunt was too. . . anyone else know anything?

[neville mackay]

If I recall correctly, I seem to recall reading in hs biography that Innes Ireland thought it wasa great joke to write "Johnny Walker" under the heading "Blood type" when signing on at an event. A slightly different attitude to safety in those days...

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by 2F-001
The theory behind this, as I'm sure you can imagine, is to speed things up in the event of a driver needing to given blood as the result of an injury. But I've always wondered if this wasn't a bit of an affectation (and at lesser levels of racing, a bit of posturing?) and thus a bit pointless - I'd always understood that a medical practitioner would not give blood unless bloodgroup test had been administered (unless, in absolute emergency - perhaps at the trackside, giving a blood type acceptable to all or most)... I would imagine that in recent Formula One racing such info would be lodged with organisers' medical teams anyway... and that at lower down the foodchain a test would be essential - it wouldn't be the first time someone had raced in borrowed overalls.

Absolutely right. Giving a patient the wrong blood is not a very clever thing to do and has potentially fatal consequences. In A and E departments (emergency rooms) blood grouping is always checked (a very quick procedure) irrespective of any overall/bracelet/tattoo which purports to give the correct Grouping. If things are a bit hairy in the meantime there are plenty of plasma expanders etc which are non-blood products and can be administered safely.

What did happen to the Louis Stanley medical trailer ? It seemed a good idea at the time altho' I recall big Lou was a tad upset when it was sited on a rubbish dump when visiting Clermont Ferrand. When did it last make a Grand Prix appearance ?

[Runner]

Originally posted by bill moffat


Absolutely right. Giving a patient the wrong blood is not a very clever thing to do and has potentially fatal consequences. In A and E departments (emergency rooms) blood grouping is always checked (a very quick procedure) irrespective of any overall/bracelet/tattoo which purports to give the correct Grouping. If things are a bit hairy in the meantime there are plenty of plasma expanders etc which are non-blood products and can be administered safely.

Back when drivers started putting their blood groups on their overalls (around 1966/7) blood typing was not a quick procedure (particularly Rh typing) and the plasma expanders which are available today didn't exist. It was also a time when the medical facilites available in some locations were marginal at best.

When I had a SCCA National license (70s/80s) you were required to show your name, date of birth, blood type, allergies and date of last tetnus shot on the back of your helmet.

No, I don't see this today as an affection or posturing. I see it as something which started in an era when this had a real medical function (Army dog tags also carried blood type for the same reason - to save time) and now has become traditon.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Runner
Back when drivers started putting their blood groups on their overalls (around 1966/7) blood typing was not a quick procedure (particularly Rh typing) and the plasma expanders which are available today didn't exist.....

Maybe the ones that are available today didn't exist, but Dextran was in use as a plasma expander in the mid-fifties and a saline solution mixed with a fluourochemical (FC43) was in the developmential stages in the late sixties. I recall the TV show That's Incredible showed a blood substitute capable of carrying some huge amount of oxygen compared to blood in that era too.

It always amazes me that blood hasn't been supplanted by substitutes in cases requiring transfusions.

[Simpson RX1]

Always had my blood type on my overalls; seem to recall it was recommended by the BARC when I originally applied for my licence, and it was a "no cost option" at my compulsory medical.

Prior to that, I had it dymo taped to the side of my crash hat (at 16 I was a bike courier in London, so it was fair bet that I'd have a serious smash), along with the message "please do not remove unless medically qualified".

As an aside, I'm pleased to report that when I did have a serious smash, the attending members of the general public didn't remove my lid, but did drag me out of the road by lifting me by the (smashed) clavicle and my left leg, which featured broken ankle/tibia/femur/pelvis.............OUCH!

[bpratt]

Now I wish I'd asked the driver standing beside me yesterday at the starting line of the Knox Mountain Hill Climb (Kelowna, BC, Canada) about the patch sewn onto his driver's uniform. I stopped myself because I figured it would sound smart assed and then I tried to logic it out and the question then sounded ghoulish in my mind considering he might still have another run to make. He was AB negative (no name).

[Mike Argetsinger]

The ones you want to stay clear of are those who have AB Normal stenciled (anywhere)!

But seriously, blood groups on uniforms and helmets are hardly examples of posturing (which is not to say that there isn't plenty of that in evidence in paddocks worldwide). As Runner and others have said it was required for many years in SCCA and other sanctioning bodies and you couldn't pass technical inspection without that information in place - as I recall it was first on uniforms and later on helmets.

I suspect that, as suggested above, it is the advancing technology that has made this requirement passe.

[Hieronymus]

Originally posted by BorderReiver


How many drivers bloodtypes are known...

To answer the original question:

All human blood belongs to one of four major groups, i.e. A, B, O and AB

The Rh that also appears on the overalls from time to time, naturally refers to the Rhesus factor, that is present in the red blood cells of more than 80% of humans. They are the so-called Rh positives. Those that do not have this factor are Rh negative.

In blood transfusion it is a major crisis if two incompatible blood groups are mixed, since it leads to agglutination. Agglutination cells block capillaries and the end result is damaged kidneys and even death.

These days blood groupings can be determined in minutes, which was not the case several years ago. Hopefully drivers in those days always wore their own overalls or helmets. Just think what drama it could have caused if one was involved in a serious accident. Wearing protective gear with the wrong blood groupings would have resulted in a catastrophe for the poor driver.

[Spirit]

I am still required to run a sticker with my name, blood type, and known allergies on the back of my helmet in order to pass tech inspection every weekend.

This is as per SCCA regulations

[2F-001]

So, on the points of necessity, usefulness and 'pose-value', I stand corrected.
( But I was seeking views rather than framing a criticism )

[exg]

In WRC, i've noticed several cars that have the driver and co-drivers names on the small rear quaterpanel window along with the blood type. All cars do not have this, so i'm not sure about the regulation, etc. It makes good sense in a rally I guess, as medical attention could be required at a very remote area, etc. This is probably a hold over/tradition from the old days when all forms of racing were much less organised than they are today.

[eldougo]

CAMS. sent out a memo to car clubs in the about 1969 /70 asking DRIVERS to display there
BLOOD group on your Overalls. I got my late MUM to emboss it on O+. I still have that suit
some where in storage bought it at RACE & RALLY at Enfield in Sydney now that a name i have
not heard in years.

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by 2F-001
So, on the points of necessity, usefulness and 'pose-value', I stand corrected.
( But I was seeking views rather than framing a criticism )

Not really. I still, in essence, agree with your original comments.

I have been there and done it..it would be professional suicide to give ungrouped blood whatever documentation came with a patient. An unconscious driver will not be able to tell you "I'm wearing my mates overalls". With the possible exception of "universal donor" blood (Gp O) a patient will always be Grouped/cross-matched prior to a transfusion.

I believe fishing is statistically the most "dangerous sport" in the UK. I don't see many fishermen sitting on the canal banks with their medical details printed on their waterproofs !

[Mike Argetsinger]

Originally posted by Spirit
I am still required to run a sticker with my name, blood type, and known allergies on the back of my helmet in order to pass tech inspection every weekend.

This is as per SCCA regulations

You can take it off if you choose and you will still pass tech! It is no longer required by the SCCA although they do recommend it. I can't quite remember what year they changed that rule but I haven't had it on my helmet for at least the last 4-5 years - maybe longer.

[Aubwi]

I could just about swear I've seen a BAR with Jaques' blood type prominently displayed next to his name. 2000 or 2001 season, I think.

[Paul Rochdale]

At one time it was popular for racing drivers to have their blood groups embroidered on their racing overalls. Presumably this was to save nursing staff time if the driver was brought in unconscious. But a nurse once told me that they would never simply give anyone a blood transfusion just on the say so of what was embroidered on a drivers overalls. I was also told that in a worse case scenario, O+ was a good 'general purpose' blood which almost anyone could have in an emergency until the actual blood group could be determined. How true is this?

[sonar]

At one time it was popular for racing drivers to have their blood groups embroidered on their racing overalls. Presumably this was to save nursing staff time if the driver was brought in unconscious. But a nurse once told me that they would never simply give anyone a blood transfusion just on the say so of what was embroidered on a drivers overalls. I was also told that in a worse case scenario, O+ was a good 'general purpose' blood which almost anyone could have in an emergency until the actual blood group could be determined. How true is this?

I think that must be 0- instead of 0+.
That is usually the blood given when they don't know the blood group yet.
Blood type 0 is the only type that can be given to anybody with any type of blood.
The other way around is very dangerous.
If you give A type blood to a person that has type 0, for instance, the blood will clot.
So, no, I don't believe they would just simply believe what's on the drivers overalls.
They might have borrowed somebody elses overall or something.

It doesn't take long to find out somebody's blood type so probably the 0- blood is only given when it's absolutely necessary.

[LotusElise]

Blood groups were displayed next to the crew names on rally cars until very recently - probably until co-driver names were done away with.

I suspect that it is as much about tradition and superstition as about medical necessity. Motorsport people are a superstitious bunch.

[Vitesse2]

Ten seconds with the search engine would have found this ....

http://forums.autosp...w...26&hl=blood

[sonar]

I always liked seeing the blood types on the overalls.
Seeing which driver had the same blood type as I.
I don't remember, however, who they were.
Does anybody know which driver had or has A-?

I always have to carry a special card on me, because I have rare antibodies in my blood.
It mentions my blood type and also the antibodies.
Now I wonder why I carrie this thing with me all the time.
It has my name on it, but then they would have to be sure that I am really me........(is everybody still with me?)

If a driver has a really rare blood type, does he also have to cary such a card?
Maybe they should tattoo there blood type on their bodies.
It wouldn't take up al lot of space on the body so it can be done in a place on the body where not everybody can see it.

[Schummy]

If you had added another three verse paragraph, it had been a sort of nice sonnet.

Edited by Schummy, 25 September 2009 - 21:40.

[Paul Rochdale]

The reason I mentioned O+ is that is my own blood group and I'd read that it was a 'general purpose' blood.

[sonar]

The reason I mentioned O+ is that is my own blood group and I'd read that it was a 'general purpose' blood.

I think it's 0-, because it's very dangerous (to women) to give 0+ blood to a person who has Rhesus negative blood.
For a woman, if she were to get pregnant later the baby would develop RhD Hemolytic disease.
In most cases this disease will kill the baby.
Unfortunately I know this by experience.
I don't know if it's also dangerous to men, but I think in most hospitals they usually give 0- to everybody who comes in with an unknown blood type.

I do think that 0+ is the most common type of blood, though.
Maybe that's what you meant...?

[RS2000]

Does anybody know which driver had or has A-?

Well, my co-driver did. Is it rare?

On the wider subject, it became a regulation for International Rallies to have the driver's and co-driver's names and blood groups and national flags on the front wings of the car (wing as in UK saloon bodywork terminology, not single seater...) - both names/groups on each front wing. I have seen people initially fail scrutineering (including me) for not having both on both and conversely I have seen plenty of people start a WRC rally (including me) with incomplete data. I can't recall it being mandatory for it to be on overalls or helmet. It seems to have disappeared before the current craze for names on side windows. I also can't recall it ever being mandatory on UK national and below events.
I'm sure it was stopped for the reasons already posted - it was a potential disaster waiting to happen.
To out-pose the posers, I carried a donor card taped to the car dash and one taped to my helmet...

Edited by RS2000, 25 September 2009 - 22:40.

[Collombin]

Well, my co-driver did. Is it rare?

A isn't rare, but being Rh negative is.

The guy who had the best blood group for a racing driver was Eddie Cheever, AB+. He could basically be given anyone's blood and it would be fine.

He'd be a crap donor though.

[aaron]

My doctor said the same thing some years ago. Apparently no self respecting doctor would take notice of a blood type written on a helmet or overalls. Aaron.

[Catalina Park]

A self respecting Doctor may not, but would that apply to a race track Doctor?

The last International meeting that I did I had to supply the medical centre with a card with all my details on it. So that they had all the info on hand without needing to see the blood group on a helmet or suit.

[sonar]

According to Heinz Prüller, who writes about this in his 1987 edition, some drivers started storing their own blood. (it doesn't mention where)
This was about the time that people became very afraid of aids and other viruses.
Is this true?
I don't suppose they would have done this right before a race, but if they did it a few weeks earlier, they'd have to cary it around all the time......

It also mentions that some teams also had their mechanics tested so the could donate their blood i.c.e.
Does anybody know if this is true?

[giacomo]

According to Heinz Prüller, who writes about this in his 1987 edition, some drivers started storing their own blood. (it doesn't mention where)
This was about the time that people became very afraid of aids and other viruses.
Is this true?

Yeah, it was reported also in magazines back then.

IIRC, Ari Vatanen had huge troubles after his terrible 1985 Argentina shunt; he got blood donated which was suspicious of being aids infected or something along that line.

[JtP1]

At one time you had to have your blood group on your competition liecence and just why I never actually found out. Probably some bampot idea from inside the RACMSA or FIA. The other popular gimic was wearing a metal braclet with your blood group on your wrist so you could deglove your hand in an accident. That then helps with the blood loss while loosing the braclet anyway.

[RS2000]

Top racing cyclists store their own blood (allegedly).....but we'd better not go there....
I can't recall ever having blood group on a comp licence. I didn't even know my blood group until I made a return to International events in the 80s. Donating blood was a good way of finding out, so there was one "positive" result to having to display it on the car.

[KWSN - DSM]

Ten seconds with the search engine would have found this ....

http://forums.autosp...w...26&hl=blood

So you wasted 10 seconds then.

Since there is this new thread, which you did not need to search for.

[doc knutsen]

So you wasted 10 seconds then.

Since there is this new thread, which you did not need to search for.

Blood groups written on helmets or overalls are of no value to a medical team. In an emergency we'd use universal O Rh minus, or infuse a plasma substitute while awaiting the cross-match.
The again, some blood types just sound nice. Mine, for example, reads Be Positive ;)

[Lee Nicolle]

Like the others said I was going to get my blood group monogrammed on my race suit until the emergency nurse I was seeing at the time said that they would only pay scant attention to that. If you had a rare blood type etc they may pay a little more attention but they would still test anyway to confirm before giving blood.
Luckily I have never needed blood or in fact visited a hospital in relation to my motorsport.

[Andrew Kitson]

Tony Lanfranchi always had the best blood group lettering on his overalls ALE+

[RS2000]

Surely this was discussed on another thread very recently?

[Tim Murray]

Blood Groups on racing overalls

[Andrew Kitson]

Surely this was discussed on another thread very recently?

Yes but this is the original thread, not the unecessary new one. Merge time I think.

[gm914]

I was just talking vintage race overalls with a buddy. Does anyone remember on where Jackie Stewart would list his blood group and allergies? I have never seen it on his overalls or helmets, so where would he have placed them. Perhaps inside the overalls? I know he refused to wear the bracelets.
Any body have a photo?

[Terry Walker]

Innes Ireland was famously allergic to morphine based painkillers - they would kill him.

My guess is, it had to do the the Louis Stanley inspired medical unit at tracks in those days. A sort of F1 M*A*S*H unit. The drivers had their groups on their overalls, they were already typed properly in advance (after all, not a lot of drivers), the medical unit could go for broke in a dire emergency knowing they were getting it right.

Doug Nye, set me right

[Bloggsworth]

I must have had my blood tested a 100 times over the years (You get that privilege with a dicky thyroid), and I haven't a clue what my blood type is, one day I'll remember to ask! Certainly didn't have it on my overalls.

[Bloggsworth]

Innes Ireland was famously allergic to morphine based painkillers

Comes with the aristocratic bloodline... Either that or he was a horse.