28 replies to this topic

[dolomite]

Further to my previous thread , here are some more pictures from the same collection, again I believe from the 1929 Double 12 Hour race. Any identification of the cars and drivers involved would be much appreciated!

Correction - these are actually from the 1929 6 Hour race.

[Criceto]

I don't think it can be the 1929 Double 12 - car #4 in 1929 was a Studebaker President, and in the pictures, the Bentley team is clearly carrying 4, 3 and 6.

I'll see if I can match any other races.

[Geoff E]

I don't know these old cars, but the No4 in the last picture is a different car isn't it? Unless it was some sort of obstacle race - 1st stop, put hood down - 2nd stop, move bonnet strap back 6 inches etc.

[dolomite]

I'm guessing these are from the 1929 race because I read somewhere that this was the only one where it was required to put the hood up at the start.

It's possible that the last picture may be from a different race to the other three.

[Geoff E]

I expect you have seen this report:- http://www.brookland.../Race2/29dt.htm

It has obviously been converted from a scanned document but not proof read. They had the hoods up for the first 10 laps.

[dolomite]

Here's another one - somebody I'm sure must be able to identify this?

[Vitesse2]

The lower car is one of the 1926/7 Thomas "Flat-Iron" Specials. There's a picture in Georgano of a Thomas wearing #21 as seen here, which is dated as "about 1928" - the same picture appears in Hodges' A-Z of GP Cars.

[humphries]

Dolomite

Brooklands BARC 6 Hours Endurance Race 29 June, 1929 ( "6 Hours" was a misnomer but sounded better than a 457 mile handicap )

First picture, car:-

#21 O.M..................R.F.Oats, (driving solo)
#25 Frazer-Nash.....A.M.Conan-Doyle/ R.G.Nash ( yes, the son of Sherlock Holmes creator )
#30 Lea Francis .....R.Childe/ J.Bidmead
#31 Lea Francis .....E.Thomas/ H.R.Wellsteed
#34 Lea Francis .....W.H.Green/ S.H.Newsome ( Wilf Green, Willie's dad, Newsome was also nominated No2 driver for #33 and #35 so a busy day ahead for him possibly)
#45 Triumph ...........V.Horsman, ( driving solo )

Second and third picture

#4 Bentley 4.4 ...........Kaye Don/ Humphrey Cook ( Cook, the later patron of E.R.A., praised be!!- in a car entered by Wolf Barnato, who also had a bob or two!!! )

Fourth Photo:-

#3 Bentley 6.5 ........Barnato/ Jack Barclay
#6 Bentley 4.4 ........H.N.Holder/ Bernard Rubin

Fifth Photo :- Brooklands' first BRDC 500 Miles Race 12 October, 1929

#32 Bentley 4.4 s/c......Tim Birkin/ Beris Harcourt Wood ( Beris did not appear to get to drive, Birkin as usual hogging the limelight until his car caught fire N.B The rolled up sleeves, no arm protection...Tripoli 1933 )

#21 Thomas Special.........Mrs W.B.Scott/ E.M.Thomas ( Jill and Mr Thomas didn't just share the car? )

John

[Tim Murray]

Originally posted by humphries
#21 Thomas Special.........Mrs W.B.Scott/ E.M.Thomas ( Jill and Mr Thomas didn't just share the car?)

Hmm. Mr Scott had a rather unusual nickname, IIRC. Cause and effect?

[dolomite]

humphries, excellent info, thank you

Can you identify cars 36 and 37 also?

[dolomite]

Originally posted by humphries

#3 Bentley 6.5 ........Barnato/ Jack Barclay

I just found this link according to which #3 is the car 'Old No 1' which won Le Mans 1929 and went on to win again in 1930 (and was then responsible for the expenditure of major solicitors' fees in later life...)

[humphries]

Dolomite

# 36 Lea Francis........Hon. A.D.Chetwynd/ A.N.L.Maclachan ( entered by the Honourable Mrs. Chetwynd; the drivers, Adam and Alan to their friends )

# 37 Alvis ..................Noel Carr ( driving solo ) As the last Lea Francis gets away Carr and his passenger are still struggling with the hood of the Alvis - the only one entered and perhaps why?!During the early laps a number of cars were black-flagged and made to secure their hoods properly if they were flapping in the wind.

Of the other photographs Dick Oats and Vic Horsman were Brooklands regulars and Dick Nash was more famous as a hillclimber with Spook and The Terror. E.( M? )Thomas was Mrs Jill Scott's future husband and Sammy Newsome was involved with the fledgling SS company that later adopted the model name "Jaguar" to replace the company name, rather understandably after WW2.

Adrian Conan-Doyle and his brother Dennis were both keen racing motorists.

Wellsteed constructed a special out of a Morris Oxford called " Red Devil " and thoroughly enjoyed himself in the club meetings.

R.Childe (Childs?) and Bidmead are unknowns to me but both, no doubt, had a spiffing time.

John

[Vitesse2]

As Adrian Conan-Doyle's come up .... in 1937 Sheldon has him listed in two Voiturette races (both DNA), allegedly in a Delage 2LCV. Now I'm quite prepared to believe that he had one - indeed he raced one at Chimay - but a 2LCV wouldn't have been eligible as a Voiturette unless destroked or linered down - this was the 2.0 litre V12. So did he:

(a) reduce the capacity in some way?
(b) also own/plan to buy a Delage 15S8 and/or plan to buy the ex-Seaman Delage from Bira?
© own any other car which could have been entered in voiturette races?

[Marcor]

In 1937 Adrian Malcolm Conan Doyle, son of the writer, was in the entry list of the 1937 GP des Frontières in the 2 L racing car class but DNA.

André Biaumet said the car was a 1500 GP, but I've also see a mention of a 2 LCV car.

It's hardly difficult to check in the Belgian sources as the car and the driver never came at Chimay.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Marcor
In 1937 Adrian Malcolm Conan Doyle, son of the writer, was in the entry list of the 1937 GP des Frontières in the 2 L racing car class but DNA.

André Biaumet said the car was a 1500 GP, but I've also see a mention of a 2 LCV car.

It's hardly difficult to check in the Belgian sources as the car and the driver never came at Chimay.

My mistake, Marc: DNA indeed - I must remember to use my reading glasses when consulting Sheldon! I misread 6 as 8 ....

One of the two parts of option b looks favourite then. Where did Parnell get the two he rebuilt after the war?

[PAHyde]

A long shot I suspect but Dolomite do you still have these pictures scanned as I cannot get them up on my PC and think they may have been removed. I am interested in the first picture, the one with E Thomas and HR Wellsteed in. I am related to HR WEllsteed and would love to see the picture. Incidently the car is Red Flash not Red Devil.

[HistoricMustang]

There are many Brooklands threads here at TNF and my apology if these have already been presented.

But, I do not want to take a chance that they have not, as some are wonderful.

Henry

The eighth photograph is very special.

http://www.28dayslat...ead.php?t=11433

[Allan Lupton]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang
The eighth photograph is very special.

D'you mean the one with a caption implying that the second World War started in 1937?

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by Allan Lupton

D'you mean the one with a caption implying that the second World War started in 1937?

Allan, I am impressed that this gentleman's vehicle is off the ground while in the banking.

Any idea who the driver might be and the make of race car?

And, I guess the beginning of WWII depended on where you were at the time incoming started.

Henry

Edit: The vehicle actually appears to be leaving the banking so perhaps a dip was present and that explains car being airborne. WOW

[fuzzi]

Originally posted by HistoricMustang


Allan, I am impressed that this gentleman's vehicle is off the ground while in the banking.

Any idea who the driver might be and the make of race car?
-

And, I guess the beginning of WWII depended on where you were at the time incoming started.

Henry

Edit: The vehicle actually appears to be leaving the banking so perhaps a dip was present and that explains car being airborne. WOW

The airborne car is Lord Howe's Type 59 Bugatti with what could be the Barnato Hassan behind.

The car is airborne after the bump on the track where the hennibeque (sp - see me!) bridge section rejoins the concrete laid on what passed for foundations.;)

Editted to read Barnato rather than Barbato. Thank you Mr Dron sir.

[P. Dron]

Well, I never imagined Wolf Barnato as an Italian beardie... however, that does look very much like the Barnato-Hassan behind Howe's Bugatti, and from what I have read, taking off at that point of the circuit was a normal event.

But look carefully at photo 2: towards the top lefthand corner of the picture, at about 10 o'clock, there is what looks like an exact miniature replica of the circuit. What was all that about - a photo reproduction error, or what?

Edit: Ah, I see what it is - the Brooklands badge as shown also in photo 4.

[Allan Lupton]

Yes it's the Barnato-Hassan in the background - as it was from 1937 onwards with narrow radiator intake and carb intake funnel.
The last race at Brooklands was on 7 August 1939 - Bill Boddy does not refer to either the B-H or Lord Howe's T59 taking part.
Brooklands is not my subject, but airborne cars feature in photos from the beginning. As Fuzzi wrote, the thing was built on what passed for foundations, which were totally inadequate and the thing was terribly rough from the start.
In my view any car that claims a Brooklands history must show signs of having had chassis damage!

Oh, and most of us date the second World War from the British declaration of war on Germany.

[Southern Cross]

I am researching Horsman's racing for Triumph- apparently photo #1 shows him in the car, but the photo is no longer posted? Can you email it to me?

Further to my previous thread , here are some more pictures from the same collection, again I believe from the 1929 Double 12 Hour race. Any identification of the cars and drivers involved would be much appreciated!

Correction - these are actually from the 1929 6 Hour race.

[bradbury west]

A reminder about the Brooklands Society photo website.
http://www.brookland...s.com/index.htm
Roger Lund

[Allan Lupton]

A reminder about the Brooklands Society photo website.
http://www.brookland...s.com/index.htm
Roger Lund

Interesting photos which badly need captions to be useful.

[ERault]

As Adrian Conan-Doyle's come up .... in 1937 Sheldon has him listed in two Voiturette races (both DNA), allegedly in a Delage 2LCV. Now I'm quite prepared to believe that he had one - indeed he raced one at Chimay - but a 2LCV wouldn't have been eligible as a Voiturette unless destroked or linered down - this was the 2.0 litre V12. So did he:

(a) reduce the capacity in some way?
(b) also own/plan to buy a Delage 15S8 and/or plan to buy the ex-Seaman Delage from Bira?
© own any other car which could have been entered in voiturette races?

According to the Motor Sport report for the Southport 100 Miles (on Birkdale Beach) on august 12, 1933, Adrian Conan-Doyle ran a 1993cc supercharged Delage. That's close enough to a 2LCV. He only managed three laps before retiring. His brother went further with a big 6740cc Mercedes-Benz (is that a SS ?). Anyone has seen photo evidence of the 2LCV to settle this ?

[David McKinney]

My information is that Conan Doyle sleeved the V12 engine. Whether it ever raced, I don't know
He reportedly blew the engine up testing it in 1938
I regret I don't have a source for either piece of intelligence

[ERault]

MotorSport for january 1937 has the following : first Charles Martin has plans to put a 1926 straight-eight Talbot engine in one of the 2-litre V12 1924 Delage chassis, "presumably the car owned by the Conan Doyles".

Then the same article adds that "a prominent continental driver is rumoured to be acquiring one of the twelve-cylinder 2-litre 1924 Delage cars, presumably to run linered down to 1,5 litres. We understood that an inherent fault in the con-rod formation prevented the Conan Doyles using this remarkable car for record work, so that if the present rumour be true there looks like some enthralling redesigning work for someone".

So it would seem Seaman's 1936 season had some effect on the second-hand Delage market...

[Dutchy]

Presumably the straight-eight Talbot engine was a spare? I can't think of any rational reason for removing one from it's original chassis.