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McNally F1 car/Hesketh V12 engine (merged)


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#1 ian senior

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 13:20

I have a vague recollection of this car (or at least the intention to produce it) being announced in the early 1970s. I guess it would have been a typical DFV engined "kit car" but did it ever actually happen? Came from somewhere in Geordieland, I think. And who was McNally?

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#2 David M. Kane

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 13:43

Could be Patrick "Paddy" McNally the guy who heads Allsport. They are the ones who run the elitist Paddock Club at the Grands Prix for the Corporate-types. The reason I call them elitist is because...well, they think they are better than everyone else and they think its their right
to spend their stockholders money on feeding their faces with fancy food
and fancy drink. They NEVER, for the most part, every journey outside of
this compound lest they catch the plague or some other disease from the commoners. In other words I don't like stuck-up people who come to GPs for all the wrong reasons.

I think Patrick was a marketing-type for one of the teams back in the '70s,
either Williams or McLaren. Anyway, it bust his butt to set-up this Paddock
Club and apparently he has done fairly well at it. I just don't like the
type of people who are his clients.

#3 petefenelon

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 14:47

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Could be Patrick "Paddy" McNally the guy who heads Allsport. They are the ones who run the elitist Paddock Club at the Grands Prix for the Corporate-types. The reason I call them elitist is because...well, they think they are better than everyone else and they think its their right
to spend their stockholders money on feeding their faces with fancy food
and fancy drink. They NEVER, for the most part, every journey outside of
this compound lest they catch the plague or some other disease from the commoners. In other words I don't like stuck-up people who come to GPs for all the wrong reasons.

I think Patrick was a marketing-type for one of the teams back in the '70s,
either Williams or McLaren. Anyway, it bust his butt to set-up this Paddock
Club and apparently he has done fairly well at it. I just don't like the
type of people who are his clients.


McNally was John Hogan's right-hand man at Philip Morris, IIRC, and one of the many former lovers of the chat show hostess and colonic irrigation fan formerly known as the Duchess of York.

I'd heard that the McNally car was initially meant to use the Hesketh V12...

pete

#4 Rob29

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 14:55

I think he is most famous for being the ex-boyfriend of Sarah Ferguson,who dumped him for Prince Andrew. I don't remember a McNally F1 car either,and I also hate these corporate types who have no interest in the sport. Back when the GP was at Brands Hatch,each year a booking form would appear around January showing the main stand as 'sold out' One year in the GP programme we were invited to send in £10 deposit for our ticket for the next one 2 years hence. Duly sent my tenner and next thing I heard 18 months later was a form inviting me to choose my seat-startline stand sold out! So I sent an angry letter to MCD,asking how one could get into the darn stand. Seems it was reserved for 'Corporate guests' but they did save a few seats for genuine enthusiasts.I ended up with a front row seat-the only row occupied until a few minuites before the GP start,when the corporate types arrived.

#5 Tim Murray

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 15:24

I'm at work, so can't look anything up, but I'm positive the McNally involved with the F1 car was Gordon, not Patrick.

#6 Geoff E

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 15:36

Originally posted by Tim Murray
I'm at work, so can't look anything up, but I'm positive the McNally involved with the F1 car was Gordon, not Patrick.


You appear to be correct - I found this on a lottery site:-

"The Electronic Game Card is the latest brain child of John Bentley, entrepreneur with more than thirty years track record of innovation like being first with internet on TV in the US and the first video retail chain in Europe, and Gordon McNally, a successful Formula One racing car designer and inventor of gaming machines used in casinos all over the world."

#7 David McKinney

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 15:37

No-one's getting confused with the McNamara, are they?

#8 ensign14

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 16:51

Originally posted by Geoff E
Gordon McNally, a successful Formula One racing car designer and inventor of gaming machines used in casinos all over the world."

Maybe he designed a slot car racer? Barry?

#9 Allen Brown

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 17:57

These are my old notes on this project:

The initial report of the project was in October 1972, with a further report a year later stating that the car would use a Hesketh V12 engine. By early 1975, Hesketh had lost interest in the engine, leaving McNally holding the baby. Two nearly-complete units were advertised in March of that year.

Sources: Autosport (12 Oct 1972 p2, 20 Sep 1973, 6 Mar 1975 p7)


Allen

#10 David M. Kane

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 18:52

Allen whatever happen to these engines? How come complete were they? Do any
photos exist of the engines? Thanks.

#11 Cirrus

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 19:01

I think he is most famous for being the ex-boyfriend of Sarah Ferguson,who dumped him for Prince Andrew. I don't remember a McNally F1 car either,and I also hate these corporate types who have no interest in the sport.



I think that, probably unwittingly, you are not giving Paddy McNally due credit. He was a regular contributor to Autosport in the sixties (when Autosport was primarily aimed at the hardcore enthusist), and, I think, has an appreciation of the heritage of the sport.

#12 David M. Kane

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Posted 06 June 2003 - 20:58

Havw you ever seen or been to a Paddock Club at a GP? Yes, I do remember
his Autosport work, unfortunately a lot of water has pasted under the
bridge since then. Not to get into a contest, but you name some fan friendly things his has done? Unfortunately, I can't think of any?

As Bernie said to Sterling Moss at the Monaco Historics a few years ago,
"Isn't this great! This is the way it use to be before I f^&%&ed everything up!"

#13 Rob29

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Posted 07 June 2003 - 07:46

Originally posted by Cirrus


I think that, probably unwittingly, you are not giving Paddy McNally due credit. He was a regular contributor to Autosport in the sixties (when Autosport was primarily aimed at the hardcore enthusist), and, I think, has an appreciation of the heritage of the sport.

My coment was aimed at his customers not Paddy himself. This problem exists in other sports of course and I suppose needs new laws as to what is reasonable business entertainment. IMHO £1,000 per head tickets are not.

#14 Milan Fistonic

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Posted 07 June 2003 - 08:32

From the report of the Hesketh V12 in Motoring News September 13, 1973.


...Amon had already talked with Gordon McNally, the former F4 constructor and engineer from Washington Co, Durham, about the prospect of building a V12 and [Aubrey] Woods had been in contact with him for quite some time. McNally has been keenly talking about going into F1 for the past couple of years, and has outlined comprehensive plans for an F1 chassis in a letter to Motoring News in 1971. Now it appears that Lord Hesketh's enthusiasm is to take the project through to fruition.

...Gordon McNally will make the patterns [for the V12] and it's hoped to have the first motor available for a demonstration at Monaco next Spring.

Woods had been Amon's partner in the unsuccessful engine building company set up in 1971.

#15 David M. Kane

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Posted 07 June 2003 - 12:45

I agree my real, my real beef is with ALL professional sports. It is not
simply directed at Paddy, he is simply giving the bastards what they want.
My true beef is that they are NOT giving the rest of us what WE want.

#16 Mohican

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Posted 10 June 2003 - 15:03

"Simply giving the bastrads what they want" is an integral part of a market economy, actually.

Rule no 1: The customer is always right. If this is not the case, rule no 1 applies.

Do not share your ire at the Paddock Club...had it not been for the corporate types in question, a great many teams would have lacked sponsorship and engine suppliers. In itself, this could have made for a better racing scene - but also very much smaller.

No, your beef should REALLY be with the fact that the Ecclestones and McNallys make so much money out of the system; funds that are NOT channeled back into motor sport at all.

#17 David M. Kane

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Posted 10 June 2003 - 22:36

I couldn't agree more. That is why there is a danger of F1 splitting into
two groups, much like CART and IRL. We all know what a total diaster that
has turned out to be. Greed leads to bad things. If F1 splits, which is very possible, its going to a pretty ugly situation.

Yes, the customer is always right unless their is an Emperor. Once upon
a time there was this guy named Lenin...

#18 ghinzani

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 08:09

Let me get this right, Mcnally from up in Tyne & Weir was going to construct a V12 and an F1 car for Lord Hesketh, that predates Heskeths own cars from 74 onwards? Very interesting, thanks.

#19 EDWARD FITZGERALD

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 09:12

Let me get this right, Mcnally from up in Tyne & Weir was going to construct a V12 and an F1 car for Lord Hesketh, that predates Heskeths own cars from 74 onwards? Very interesting, thanks.


just read this rhread , as I started into it I realized that Patrick Mc Nally was not the man in question , the Mc Nally in question manufactured 10inch solid alloy wheels for minis IIRC ,so a v12 may have been doable

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#20 ReWind

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 12:51

If you go by newspaper articles from 1994 and 2010 Gordon McNally seems to be a most colourful character.

#21 EDWARD FITZGERALD

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 13:20

If you go by newspaper articles from 1994 and 2010 Gordon McNally seems to be a most colourful character.


the 2010 article makes great reading especially the V13 GRAND PRIX ENGINE , very innovative thinking there .

#22 r1leysp

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:05

HELLO -new to this forum but was looking through old topics and came across one pertaining to the mystery of McNally F1 -and if there was such a car-well to anyone interested in ancient history I can say that there nearly was  a McNally F1 also I think if my memory serves that there was about 6  McNally  F4,s too. I was a volunteer at Gordon McNallys in the 60,s before I started   my apprenticeship at Armstrong Whitworths -he had a workshop in Gateshead and we fabricated parts for the F4,s .they were built round a tub made of Mallite with I think alloy bulkheads- a chap in Cumberland  formed the nose cone out of fibreglass .They also had Hillman Imp engines and transmissions. Gordon was (is) a very clever chap and could put his mind to anything-he got a pattern made up of the Imp bellhousing but turned round about 30 degrees then gotem cast thus  enabling the engine to sit vertically. He also made his own windscreens by cutting a hole in a box -laying a sheet of Perspex over hole and dancing a flame over sheet -the sheet melted over hole and formed a curved bubble which was cut to shape wallah!.We took an F4 to Croft for testing (the 1st time) trailered on a huge borrowed trailer and behind an A35 van. the car handled badly I remember but probably come good later .I wanted to stay with the team but Gordon persuaded me to get a good engineering  apprenticeship then I would be of more use to the team .Suffice to say and as good as his word 5 years later I rejoined them. This was a heady time- we had 2 F1,s on the books ordered by Lord Hesketh no less- Gordon was also manufacturing his own designe  alloy wheels. We worked in a new factory in Washington Co Durham (then) which we had 2 years free rent. Aubrey Woods (ex BRM) designed the engine( he was around a lot checking and helping with any problems ) -a V12 with lots of magnesium castings. We built a magnesium foundry in the corner of the factory cordened off by breeze blocks. Sometimes there were great blinding white light explosions covering us all with dust coming from the top secret foundry(there was no health and safety as such then)-but they were successful and I machined many castings. We did a lot of in house work-I turned the  steel billets down to form the crankshafts which were then left outside before finish grinding. On one Saturday morning Lord Hesketh and James Hunt appeared in the factory for a looksee-afraid I made them tea in plastic cups -they didn't drink them !-shortly after they pulled out F1 and that was that .Dont know what happened to all the bits -we were laid off and the factory shut. I reckon we had nearly built  2 F1,s-such a pity !Would be very gratefull to know the whereabouts of the F4,s though.



#23 alansart

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 13:35

There's an old thread on McNally.

 

http://forums.autosp...f1#entry6385330


Edited by alansart, 20 November 2013 - 13:35.


#24 David McKinney

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 16:21

Thanks Alan

You beat me to finding it

Am attending to a merger

#25 r1leysp

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 09:16

just read this rhread , as I started into it I realized that Patrick Mc Nally was not the man in question , the Mc Nally in question manufactured 10inch solid alloy wheels for minis IIRC ,so a v12 may have been doable

Hello Edward-  Gordon also made alloy wheels for Escorts -I didn't see a finished V12-but I did see all the components for them. I worked  for a couple of weeks with no pay for them but then was offered another job so left for more adventures



#26 r1leysp

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 11:13

Is Gordon McNally still around -the last I heard of him -he was living somewhere in Huntingdon-would be great to hear from him again-his foreman at the factory Frank Dickenson was driving Newcastle buses after sailing round the world !-he had one of the F4s.



#27 Boniver

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 07:07

In 1975 there was news that McNelly would built an F1 car McNelly with Hesketh V12

 

Lord Hesketh had plans to build a v12 engine.

 

Aubrey Wood (ex BRM en ex Westlake V12 for Eagle) had in 1974 a project for built  a V12 for Chris Amon (John Dalton Amon Racing) but there was no money.

 

In 1975 McNally wants to buy this V12 engine, but Amon & C° had the rights to the design.

 

Why did the motor suddenly have the name "Hesketh"

Was McNally a straw man for Lord Hesketh and was the project not McNelly-Hesketh V12 but Hesketh-Hesketh V12.

 

And who was McNelly????

Was this Paddy NcNelly

 

 

 



#28 Tim Murray

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 08:28

It was Gordon McNally (not McNelly) who was behind the project. Here’s an earlier thread on it:

The McNally F1 car

#29 opplock

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Posted 26 July 2018 - 09:11

I'm intrigued as to why Chris Amon would have wanted to use a V12. He was often reported as saying that neither Ferrari or Matra V12s were as good as a DFV. I also seem to remember him being quoted as recommending that "we take the Goral (Tecno) chassis and stick a DFV in it".   

 

I remember that the Amon, Aubrey Woods engine firm got a lot of publicity on NZ radio news when first announced. Along the lines of "This has to be another chapter in the book of Amon disasters".     



#30 Tim Murray

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 10:27

While looking for something else I came across this news item in Motoring News for 26th February 1976:

Hesketh V12 goes under

The last words on the ambitious Hesketh/McNally Formula 1 engine were spoken in Newcastle Bankruptcy Court recently when a Mr Gordon Ormerod described how he was left with liabilities totalling almost £38,000 as a result of this project’s collapse.

Together with Gordon McNally, Ormerod started trading as McNally Alloy Wheels and Lord Hesketh is said to have approached them about the possibility of building the Aubrey Woods-designed V12 engine. Unfortunately the finance was not available and, despite an injection of money from Hesketh, the project foundered.

Since the firm crashed, the sheriff’s officer had seized and sold the factory’s contents for £5,000.



#31 Geoff E

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Posted 02 October 2018 - 10:54

While looking for something else I came across this news item in Motoring News for 26th February 1976:


The London Gazette has Ormerod's name as Geoffrey Joseph Ormerod.