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Maserati 4CLT


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#51 Dutchy

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 16:19

Process of elimination, mainly. Fox apparently had a 4CLT as well as the F2 Plate-Maseratis (and three newer monoposto Maseratis). Carstens bought the lot, and it's not altogether clear which two went to Maxson. From US sources, there is reason to believe one of them was a pukka 4CLT



That is most interesting. However there is a conundrum in that chassis 1598 has appeared in recent years as a proper 4CLT having been allegedly discovered derelict in Brazil.

Out of interest what were the " three newer monoposto Maseratis" you refer to?

Edited by Dutchy, 15 May 2013 - 16:20.


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#52 David McKinney

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 16:37

I can't explain why someone thinks 1598 came from Brazil. The 4CLT of that number became one of the F2 Plate-Maseratis in 1952, and it now seems clear that this and the other F2 car (formerly 1601) are the ones raided for the Mantaray

I'm not an expert on A6GCMs, but believe that 2035, 2036 and possibly 2037 were the A6GCMs that went to Fox

#53 Dutchy

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 22:48

I can't explain why someone thinks 1598 came from Brazil. The 4CLT of that number became one of the F2 Plate-Maseratis in 1952, and it now seems clear that this and the other F2 car (formerly 1601) are the ones raided for the Mantaray

I'm not an expert on A6GCMs, but believe that 2035, 2036 and possibly 2037 were the A6GCMs that went to Fox


The source was an article on the ex Bob Sutherland 4CLT in Classic and Sportscar two or three years ago. I wrote and queried it but needless to say my letter wasn't printed.

What became of the Fox A6GCMs?

#54 David McKinney

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 05:25

The ex-Sutherland car is of unknown origins - it has also appeared as 1590

I don't know what happened to the Fox A6GCMs, except that they were acquired by Tom Carstens

#55 David Birchall

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 19:50

I realise this is a dreadful photo. I took it in Steve Griswold's shop in Berkely California in the early eighties-Griswold is visible on the left. The car in front is a 4CLT48. The car behind is the v12 engined 250F if I remember correctly. I recall being at Sears Point with Nino Epifani and crew when they track tested what must have been this 4CLT-after it was fully restored-it was driven-and possibly owned-by Don Orosco. The odd thing is, I seem to remember another 4CLT being built/rebuilt alongside this one but I cannot find a photo at the moment.

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#56 larryd

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 23:25

I realise this is a dreadful photo. I took it in Steve Griswold's shop in Berkely California in the early eighties-Griswold is visible on the left. The car in front is a 4CLT48. The car behind is the v12 engined 250F if I remember correctly. I recall being at Sears Point with Nino Epifani and crew when they track tested what must have been this 4CLT-after it was fully restored-it was driven-and possibly owned-by Don Orosco. The odd thing is, I seem to remember another 4CLT being built/rebuilt alongside this one but I cannot find a photo at the moment.

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That V12 250F (2531?) came to England for restoration. A very good friend of mine in Coventry, and one hell of a fabricator, made new exhaust systems from scratch.

No factory drawings were available for either of the two systems in use in period - the work was all done from published photos, many of which I was able to supply to him, and he made both.

He was a motorcycle road racer - TT and on the Continent - and his name is Dave Kerby.


#57 Peter Morley

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:13

I realise this is a dreadful photo. I took it in Steve Griswold's shop in Berkely California in the early eighties-Griswold is visible on the left. The car in front is a 4CLT48. The car behind is the v12 engined 250F if I remember correctly. I recall being at Sears Point with Nino Epifani and crew when they track tested what must have been this 4CLT-after it was fully restored-it was driven-and possibly owned-by Don Orosco. The odd thing is, I seem to remember another 4CLT being built/rebuilt alongside this one but I cannot find a photo at the moment.


Griswold restored chassis 1600, which was found in Argentina by Ben Moser in 1981, for the Hayashi collection - in the 90s it went to a European collector.


#58 David McKinney

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:20

He also restored 1595 - and perhaps others, too

#59 Rainerott

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 08:41

Maserati 4 CLT Chassis no 1600:   I am searching for more details of this car, especially for the period between 1953 and 1981, when it was found by Ben Moser. I saw now the photo of Griswolds Workshop posted under no 65 and detected the 4CLT in front, which is obviously Chassis no 1600.If  David Birchall would search for his  other photos of Griswolds worksshop, this would be a great help to confirm this. It would also be of interest, which was the other 4CLT in this Workshop. Pictures could help to identify it. When These Pictures were taken.

Would be great to get more informations on Chassis no 1600! :clap:



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#60 Peter Morley

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 16:43

I can't explain why someone thinks 1598 came from Brazil. The 4CLT of that number became one of the F2 Plate-Maseratis in 1952, and it now seems clear that this and the other F2 car (formerly 1601) are the ones raided for the Mantaray

I'm not an expert on A6GCMs, but believe that 2035, 2036 and possibly 2037 were the A6GCMs that went to Fox

 

Years (20 odd) ago I saw what was apparently a Platé Maserati at Edmond Pery's place (Apal - one time home of many a Maserati).

There was a story that the driver had been killed in the car and I think it had come from the UK (possibly someone like Coys).

Any idea which car that was likely to have been?



#61 Peter Morley

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 16:50

Maserati 4 CLT Chassis no 1600:   I am searching for more details of this car, especially for the period between 1953 and 1981, when it was found by Ben Moser. I saw now the photo of Griswolds Workshop posted under no 65 and detected the 4CLT in front, which is obviously Chassis no 1600.If  David Birchall would search for his  other photos of Griswolds worksshop, this would be a great help to confirm this. It would also be of interest, which was the other 4CLT in this Workshop. Pictures could help to identify it. When These Pictures were taken.

Would be great to get more informations on Chassis no 1600! :clap:

 

I've only got info. from around 2003 when the French owner was trying to sell it.

What appears to be an auction listing and a report from a Maserati expert in France (that does not appear to be very reliable!).

These only mention it being found in 1981 and don't explain where it was prior to then - does say what was missing though.

If you haven't got these I can e-mail them to you.

 

Peter



#62 David McKinney

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 17:00

Years (20 odd) ago I saw what was apparently a Platé Maserati at Edmond Pery's place (Apal - one time home of many a Maserati).
There was a story that the driver had been killed in the car and I think it had come from the UK (possibly someone like Coys).
Any idea which car that was likely to have been?

There were only two pukka Plate-Maseratis, and both ended up in America

#63 D-Type

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 18:39

Could the "Platé Maserati" possibly have been something else - a Maserati-Milan or even a Milan/Arzani-Volpini?



#64 Peter Morley

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 20:53

Could the "Platé Maserati" possibly have been something else - a Maserati-Milan or even a Milan/Arzani-Volpini?

 

Definitely.

Mr Pery was pretty much only interested in the Maserati aspect of the cars so wouldn't have been too bothered about the identity of non-Maserati parts.

Arzani Volpini fits in with the deceased driver part of the story.

 

I just came across (forum-auto) a photo of it at a Zolder historic race in 1984 by which time it was known to be the Arzani Volpini and in 1988 when it had an Italian driver.

All of which makes me realise it was 30 years ago that I saw the car!!



#65 David McKinney

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 21:28

The Arzani-Volpini was being advertised for sale in Belgium in 1989...