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#1 David M. Kane

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 11:53

This Sunday I will get to meet Davy Jones, the former F3 and F2 driver, he
also did well in Sports Cars and did some Indy cars. He now lives in Houston where he owns a karting center called Davy Jones Karting Zone.
Derek Daly is going to be doing some motivation activites there in July.
I understand he retired after taking a big bump on the head in a Indy car?

What do you all recall of this American driver?

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#2 Henri Greuter

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 12:22

Davy,

Spoke him at Indy in '89 after qualifying. Nice bloke. Never got decent topdrives but quite a good driver.
In fact, many are praising Scott Goodyear for being such an outstanding driver at Indy but I remember back in '94, Scotty couln't make one of his cars work, qualified another one and got bumped. He then took over the other car which was qualified by Davey. If my memory's correct, davey was eight fastest in the field with a car that supposed Indy specialist Goodyear couln't make work....

Davey was with TWR USA too, drove IMSA Jaguar's and he was one of the best guys around to work with. He and Jan lammers were teammates often and they worked together quite well, Davey admitted he learned a lot from Jan. He told me the story about Jan once winning the Pole for an IMSA race but when the mehcnic inspected the car, some of the paintwork on the rear wing was missing because Jan had been scraping the wall for a while.
Jones was a major force with TWR USA for many years and should have deserved much better at Le Mans for the team too.

He almost did the same what A.J Foyt managed: Win Indy and Le Mans in the same year. Davey was the lone Mercedes-Benz powered car in the field at Indy, that was the very first IRL sanctionend Indy 500. Believe his entrant was Walker Racing.
Jones lost out on that race partly due to a very brutal, if not outrageaous chop on the frontstraight by Eliseo Salazar. "SaladBar" was one of the many Scandia entries in that race and one of the drivers (Zampedri I believe) was still with a chance of winning. Thus, during a restart, Saladbar was ordered to block Davey in the restart. Which he duly did and Davey was almost pushed throught the inside wall. I believe he did touch the waal gently but Dave lost so much time and the car didn't handle too good anymore so he was toast for Buddy Lazier then.
Incredibly enough, Davey was the second driver who lost the race because of actions by "Saladbar", earlier in the race, Eliseo had taken out Luyendyk out of the contest too in, of all places, the outlane of the pitt. Story goes that about everyone felt that Saladbar should have been taken out of the race by black flag for dangerous driving. That they didn't was because the Indy 500 was under so much fire for being still a creditable event despite having 19 rookies and about 25 no-hopers in the field that if Saladbar had been blackflagged that would have given CART even more ammunition to shoot at IRL and the Indy 500 being a paltry race at that time and approval of the poor quality of the field, devoid of CART drivers.
One of the drivers Joned beat was the heroic "Slick" Racin Gardner, just to name one of the 19 rookies,some of those had their lone Indy race within their career in this race.

I recall Davey married the daughter of John Mecom, the entrant of Graham Hill's winning '66 Indy Lola but if they are still a couple?
And indeed, Davey became one of the victims of the first generation IRL cars. Those cars were rather dangerous because of the 'mandatory spec. gearbox. A Kenworth truck would be jealous on these cases and that made the cars very tailheavy. the cars were difficult to balans and when they stepped out with the reat they made a 180 degree and assured a backwards inpact with the wall. Took out several drivers, Davey one of them.

Great character, nice bloke. I'm happy he won Le Mans at least once in his career. It would have been more appropriate if it had happened in a Jaguar but hey, he's won there and that matters the most of all.
Give us an update on how he is nowadays after you spoke him please!

Henri Greuter


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#3 doc540

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 14:00

Just a bit more on Davy.

He married Mary Elizabeth, the daughter of John Mecom, Jr. Mecom, Jr. was the Texas oilman who raced sports cars, most notably the Chevrolet Grand Sport. The Mecom family has been marginally active in Indycar within the last few years.

Davy should have been Rookie of the Year at Indy in 1987 while driving for Foyt but not finishing the race gave the title to Fabrizio Barbazza. New to the Speedway he struggled for speed all month, and it was questionable if he would qualify for the race. Foyt knelt by the car and told him, "Son, I've showed you everything I know about this track. Now it's up to you." Davy dropped the hammer and turned in one of the greatest qualifying efforts in Indy history.

Amazingly, Davy not only qualified for the race with the fastest speeds he'd run all month, but his speeds actually increased on each successive qualifying lap, a most impressive and unusual run at Indy. I have the video of qualifying, and an amazed and relieved Foyt is seen looking at his stopwatch and patting his chest like the kid almost gave him a heart attack.

He was making a great run during the race until he missed a gear and grenaded the engine. Days later I happened to witness the autopsy when Howard Gilbert peered into the pan (bearing cradle, actually) at the alloy carnage. It wasn't a pretty sight.

Regarding Davy's neck injury, it wasn't necessarily the car which caused his injuries although rear impacts did indeed hurt several drivers. When Davy backed into the fence while practicing at Walt Disney World in 1997, his belts either failed or stretched, allowing slack in the system. His second impact caused the damage when his body lifted in the seat and stretched his neck upward. His neck was in effect broken without any damage to the bones. He wore a halo for a long time and has recovered enough to race again.
I spoke with him at TMS a couple of years ago and congratulated him on his recovery and told him how much I admired his courage and skill.

Here's a pic of the young lion at Indy in 1987.

Posted Image

Davy Jones Karting Center

#4 ensign14

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 14:08

Didn't he run in British F3 in 1982? Something like 3rd in the title, behind Tommy Byrne and Quique Mansilla?

#5 doc540

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 14:18

From his website:

"Other highlights of Jones' career are a 3rd place finish in the 1983 British Formula-3 Championship behind multi-year F1 World Champion, Ayrton Senna and Martin Brundle and a 1991 24 Hours at Daytona victory with co-drivers Jan Lammers and Andy Wallace."

#6 cheesy poofs

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 14:22

I first heard of Jones during the 1983 British F3 championship along with Speed's Calvin Fish and Canada's Allen Berg.

#7 Gert

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 15:29

Originally posted by Henri Greuter

Davey was the lone Mercedes-Benz powered car in the field at Indy, that was the very first IRL sanctionend Indy 500. Believe his entrant was Walker Racing.


IIRC, it was Galles Racing that fielded this car.
It was also while driving for Galles that the IRL accident happend. Kenny Brack took over his ride...

I also recall him driving a BMW sportscar (BMW/McLaren North America??) in the mid eighties (1986???) together with one of the Andretti's (John I guess) and winning (at least) one event against the Porsche 962s.

Didn't his connections with Tom Walkinshaw (through Jaguar) lead to a test with the Benetton-Ford?

I wonder how we have to spell his first name? I've seen both 'Davy' and 'Davey' before, and also this thread has seen his firstname speeled both ways. Anyone knows?


Gert.

#8 doc540

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 15:51

I posted a link to his website above. They spell it "Davy".

#9 dolomite

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 16:35

Originally posted by David M. Kane

What do you all recall of this American driver?


I remember watching the F3 race supporting the 1983 British GP and seeing him spin off right in front of me :)

#10 Gert

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 17:01

Does anyone know what he did in 1984 & 1985 ?

1983: British F3
1984: ??
1985: ??
1986: BMW in IMSA
1987: Foyt @Indy, Foyt Porsche 962 in IMSA
1988 - 1992: TWR Jaguar in IMSA, occasional appearances at Indy


I guess he was contesting the British Formula 3 Championship to ultimatly get in F1.
Why didn't it work out? $$$$? Did he do some F2 races after 1983 or did he return to the US?

A 3rd place in the F3 Championship after Senna & Brundle seems like a fine result to me...

Gert.

#11 ghinzani

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 17:36

IIRC he tested a Brabham F1 car at the end of 83 with Piero Martini and Ivan Capelli. He had a rich benefactor from New York who looked after him, called something like the Captain or something. But he was good - Euro F3 in 84 if I remember and then not much for the next couple of years whilst he waited for F1 that never came - altho he did drive the BMW GTP car in 85 or 86

#12 David McKinney

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 20:49

Originally posted by Gert
Does anyone know what he did in 1984 & 1985 ?

New Zealand Formula Pacific Championship

#13 neville mackay

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 21:13

I seem to recall reading somewhere that his father was a merchant seaman and that Davy himself posessed some form of shipping licence ....which must have come in handy when it came to hauling the Jag around Mulsanne..

#14 R.W. Mackenzie

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 23:38

Prior to racing in the big leagues, Davy Jones raced a PRS Formula Ford in the Ontario Region of the CASC. He ran the 1981 season and the first three races of 1982. Prior to joining the series for the last three races of 1981, I did a test day at Shannonville in my very, very used ex-Jim Russell Van Diemen RF75. The only other car on the track that hot summer afternoon was Davy in his beautiful yellow PRS. I don't remember too much about Davy that day except that he seemed to have alot of help and there was alot of discussion every time he came into the pits. The only help I had was my (now) ex-wife and every time I came into the pits the only conversation I remember was "Where's the water bottle?!!"

Davy won most of the races he entered in those two seasons and was definitely the class of the field. I was about 2 seconds a lap slower at Shannonville (and probably about 5 seconds slower at Mosport) and never expected to compete with him head-to-head. So you can imagine my joy one day in practice at Shannonville when I passed him on the back "straight". My bubble was burst however when I looked in the mirror and saw him pealing off into the pits.

I believe that it was true that his father was the owner of a shipping company. He seemed to come to the races fairly often and rode around the paddock in a golf cart (not a very common sight at a regional event back then) as he was much older than you would expect Davy's father to be. (The first time I saw Davy at the beginning of the 1981 season I couldn't believe he was old enough to have a licence.) The only time I recall talking to Davy was one day Mosport when I tried to buy some used tires from him (mine were probably the better part of a season old by then and hard as rocks). He politely explained that after he raced on a set he used that set for qualifying at the next event, then they would be used for testing. If there was any rubber left on them after that he gave them to the John Powell (Mosport) racing school to put on the students' cars.

As I was writing this I dug out my old race results from those two seasons. I was surprised to see several other drivers listed in the 1981 FF points standings that I had forgotten were there. Roger Penske Jr. ran the first race of the season which he won. Robin Buck (a CASCAR driver in more recent times) was listed as 27th in the standings and I was tied for 28th with Ron Fellows (presently of Corvette and NASCAR fame). I won't make any excuses for Robin and Ron, but I only ran the last three races!

This probably doesn't add much to the the Davy Jones story, but at least it's part of the picture.

#15 Dennis Hockenbury

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 23:45

Originally posted by doc540
He married Mary Elizabeth, the daughter of John Mecom, Jr. Mecom, Jr. was the Texas oilman who raced sports cars, most notably the Chevrolet Grand Sport.

Maybe offtopic a bit, but to expand a bit on doc's excellent overview of Davy Jones, Mary Elizabeth Mecom is heiress to a vast oil fortune. Davy came out on that score more than O.K. As far as I know they are doing just fine as I saw them together at his Karting Center a few months back.

Her dad, John Mecom, Jr. has a strong heritage in racing, and in addition to those listed by doc, his racing team fielded all sorts of sports prototypes for a strong variety of drivers, including A.J. Foyt. His team raced various Ferrari's, Lola GT, Lotus 19, Cooper-Monaco, and the like.

He even had one of the Coopers rebuilt and rebadged into the "Hussein I" to seal an oil deal with the racing enthusiast King of Jordan. Apparantly a honking beast with a Traco-tuned 7-litre Chevy with 525 b.h.p.

Racing was a major pastime of quite a few of Texas oil zillionaires of 1950's and 1960's. Just to name a few were Jim Hall of Midland and Pat O'Connor who fielded many cars for Innes Ireland and figured prominently in his "All Arms and Elbows".

I've seen Davy race a few times, and I thought that his TWR Jaguar drives were at the zenith of his all too short career. His karting center here in Houston is first rate. My girlfriend and I go every now and then. Always fun to give it a go.

A good guy.

#16 Mike Argetsinger

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 23:46

Originally posted by ghinzani
He had a rich benefactor from New York who looked after him, called something like the Captain or something.


Not exactly. The 'Captain' was his dad and he was very much a presence in Davy's early racing days. They were from upstate New York (Cortland).

Among Davy's many accomplishments, and not previously mentioned here, is that he set - and still holds - the outright lap record at Watkins Glen for the 2.45 mile short course (or NASCAR Course if you prefer) at 150.335 mph in 1992 - with the inner loop in place! - in qualifying for the IMSA Camel GTP in a Jaguar XJ4-14. This record still stands, as I said.

That's fast!

#17 David M. Kane

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 23:50

I too was told that his nickname was "The Captain" because of the money that came from his father's shipping business. He is now remarried.

#18 Dennis Hockenbury

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 00:15

Originally posted by bertocchi
Which in turn lead to the 'Road to Nowhere' being built in Jordan so that the King could exercise the beast. The story of that hunk O highway is best told by others who would know the tale better...it's a wowzer. Perhaps Mr. Nye will slide by with the details of the moment of the naming of the car (the 'beauty part') and the history of that road.

I would like to hear that tale. Indeed.

Judging from the only pic I have of this car, a damned ugly beast it was as well.

Originally posted by David M. Kane
He is now remarried.

Davy or Captain? If Davy, he sure seems to get along with his ex far better than I.

#19 theunions

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 06:34

Originally posted by Dennis Hockenbury

Maybe offtopic a bit, but to expand a bit on doc's excellent overview of Davy Jones, Mary Elizabeth Mecom is heiress to a vast oil fortune. Davy came out on that score more than O.K. As far as I know they are doing just fine as I saw them together at his Karting Center a few months back.


They divorced less than a year after his accident, which shocked me. I've always wondered what happened there...maybe similar to what happened between Stan Fox and his wife???

Davy has gone down in history as the first professional driver I ever met. :)

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#20 theunions

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 06:36

Originally posted by doc540
Here's a pic of the young lion at Indy in 1987.

Posted Image


What exactly is/was New Atlantis, and why did they disappear from the car before the race?

And...why exactly was Davy's second tenure at Foyt's (early 1995) so short-lived?

#21 Dennis Hockenbury

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 12:33

Originally posted by theunions


They divorced less than a year after his accident, which shocked me.

Very, very interesting. I can only assume that the last time I saw Davy he was with Wife #2. So much for my clever transition to the Mecom Hussein I car.

:rolleyes:

#22 JacnGille

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 14:21

There is a fairly famous (as far as being replayed a lot) clip of the BMW GTP IMSA car spinning like a top at the Kink at Road America. Bodywork is being shed in every direction. Wasn't it Davy in the car? Anyone remember?

#23 wildman

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 15:27

Originally posted by Dennis Hockenbury

He even had one of the Coopers rebuilt and rebadged into the "Hussein I" to seal an oil deal with the racing enthusiast King of Jordan. Apparantly a honking beast with a Traco-tuned 7-litre Chevy with 525 b.h.p.


Apart from its "royal" lineage, the Hussein's claim to fame was that it was probably the only road racer ever built with a Chrysler 426 Hemi powerplant.

Posted Image

#24 Dennis Hockenbury

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 15:32

Chrysler Hemi???? My reference has it as a Chevy with hemispherical heads. "The World's Racing Cars" by M.L. Twite published in 1966, 3rd ed.

#25 ghinzani

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 15:47

Originally posted by R.W. Mackenzie


I believe that it was true that his father was the owner of a shipping company. He seemed to come to the races fairly often and rode around the paddock in a golf cart (not a very common sight at a regional event back then) as he was much older than you would expect Davy's father to be. (The first time I saw Davy at the beginning of the 1981 season I couldn't believe he was old enough to have a licence.)


This probably doesn't add much to the the Davy Jones story, but at least it's part of the picture.


I think I recall reading an article with Davy where he owned up to being underage when he started and getting a ban even ???

Great background though, really good stuff!

#26 wildman

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 15:57

The March '65 issue of SCG describes the Hussein as "a lengthened Cooper stuffed full of 426 inches of hemi-head Dodge," and the accompanying photo seems to bear this out.

#27 Dennis Hockenbury

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 16:10

I agree with you Wildman based on your photo, I have never heard of a hemi-Chevy ever. Sounds like a lot of motor for a Cooper-Monaco chassis.

The book that I referred to only has an exterior shot of the car. I had never seen a pic of the engine until your post. Thanks.

#28 Dave Ware

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 16:40

>>why exactly was Davy's second tenure at Foyt's (early 1995) so short-lived?

Perhaps you mean '94? I don't have a lot to add, but I recall watching practice and qualifying for the Indy 500 on TV in '94. Bobby Unser was commentating, and he mentioned a couple of times that the chemistry between Jones and his team wasn't very good. Before long, Jones was out and Herta was in the car.

#29 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 00:52

Just to confirm by my recall, the Hussein was indeed a Cryco Hemi in a Cooper Monaco frame. But this car may have not been the only sports racer so powered. I've a pix I took from the 1966 Player's 200 at Mosport showing what I noted on the back of the print, 'Bob Montanna's McKee Hemi-Chrysler'. The engine bonnet if off but the pix is from the front and detail of the engine bay is lost. However, a Chrysler emblem is clearly visible on the nose. Sadly, in a recent move, I dropped my scanner and ...

As R. W. Mackenzie points our, Davy Jones did race extensively up here in Canada in 1981-82 since he was underage for an SCCA permit. I do recall a pro FF race at Shannonville where he turned turtle in his PSR in Saturday practice and despite suffering no visible ill affects and having a spare PSR upon which to fall back on, officials declined to let him run in the Sunday main.

#30 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 00:53

Just to confirm by my recall, the Hussein was indeed a Cryco Hemi in a Cooper Monaco frame. But this car may have not been the only sports racer so powered. I've a pix I took from the 1966 Player's 200 at Mosport showing what I noted on the back of the print, 'Bob Montanna's McKee Hemi-Chrysler'. The engine bonnet if off but the pix is from the front and detail of the engine bay is lost. However, a Chrysler emblem is clearly visible on the nose. Sadly, in a recent move, I dropped my scanner and ...

As R. W. Mackenzie points out, Davy Jones did race extensively up here in Canada in 1981-82 since he was underage for an SCCA permit. I do recall a pro FF race at Shannonville where he turned turtle in his PSR in Saturday practice and despite suffering no visible ill affects and having a spare PSR upon which to fall back on, officials declined to let him run in the Sunday main.

#31 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 01:36

Originally posted by wildman
Apart from its "royal" lineage, the Hussein's claim to fame was that it was probably the only road racer ever built with a Chrysler 426 Hemi powerplant.


Maybe not...

Allan Caelli raced a Plymouth Sports Fury on Victorian circuits in the mid to late sixties... it was a '62 model, or maybe a '63... usually a drag car.

#32 Dennis Hockenbury

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 02:38

Principally for my own peace of mind, I've looked up the reference I have on the obscure Hussein I ("The World's Racing Cars", M.L. Twite, 1966, 3rd ed.) with the following:

".....However the Hussein I is of interest because it is probably the most powerful sport/racing car currently in use. Its 7-litre (426 cu. in.) Chevrolet engine gives no less than 525 b.h.p. and gives the Hussein a top speed of over 200 m.p.h. in suitable condtions.......

......The chassis of the Cooper is basically unaltered, except to accept the Chevrolet engine, but the normal 10 in. disc brakes were felt to be inadequate for the performance and these were changed for 12.5 in. brakes at the front and 11.5 in. at the rear...........

......Originally the car was fitted with a 6-litre engine, but when Chevrolet introduced their 7-litre "Hemi-Head" engine with hemispherical combustion chambers this engine was substituted. Tuned by Traco engineering (sic) the engine has a compression ratio of 12.7:1 and four Weber 38DCN carburetters which help it to give 525 b.h.p. This power is transmitted through a Colotti gearbox through heavy-duty drive shafts to the rear wheels......"


Chassis and Engine specifications are provided.

Clearly, based upon the photographic evidence provided by Wildman, the engine data is incorrect and I would be highly suspect of the chassis data by Mr. Twite.

#33 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 02:56

12.5" discs do fit within 15" wheels...

That sounds about right. Suspension changes were most likely, however, and springs would definitely have been changed at the rear!

#34 Dr. Zhivago

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 07:39

Originally posted by theunions
maybe similar to what happened between Stan Fox and his wife???

Not to change the topic here, but I heard from a fairly reliable source that Fox never mentally recovered from his accident in 95, which would make it a bit different from what happened to Jones.

#35 theunions

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 12:17

Originally posted by Dr. Zhivago
Not to change the topic here, but I heard from a fairly reliable source that Fox never mentally recovered from his accident in 95, which would make it a bit different from what happened to Jones.


What about the fact that some people are convinced Davy has no business being back in a race car, which is what Stan fervently believed he could still do and which is what supposedly drew a wedge between himself and his wife?

#36 Gert

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 13:41

Originally posted by theunions


What about the fact that some people are convinced Davy has no business being back in a race car, which is what Stan fervently believed he could still do and which is what supposedly drew a wedge between himself and his wife?


According to Johnson's Indy 500, he tried to qualify a car for the 2000 Indy 500 or at least he turned some laps

practice, look for pos. 29
qualifying, look for QA 62

Apparantly he only got into the car on Bubble Day.

He also was entered for the 2002 race, but didn't drive the car after qualifications were ended early by rain.

Qualification order
Qualification Results

#37 theunions

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 16:24

Originally posted by Gert


According to Johnson's Indy 500, he tried to qualify a car for the 2000 Indy 500 or at least he turned some laps

practice, look for pos. 29
qualifying, look for QA 62

Apparantly he only got into the car on Bubble Day.

He also was entered for the 2002 race, but didn't drive the car after qualifications were ended early by rain.

Qualification order
Qualification Results


Davy was among the last three out of 58 drivers to pass his physical for Indy this year as well, though I don't believe there were any ride offers. He's also done some sportscar racing in recent years (2003 Rolex 24 at Daytona).

Last month, in mentioning the above physical, the Indianapolis Star said Davy was "tired of the indoor karting business." Can anyone elaborate? Is he looking to change the business, get out entirely, etc.? And why?

#38 Gert

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 18:51

So,

does anybody know what happened after his 1983 F3? It seems Davy left for the "New Zealand Formula Pacific Championship" but I guess that wasn't a planned career move.

When considering his relative success in the British F3 championship (3rd in standings) in what must have been one of his first seasons in the series (if not THE first) and his young age (according to Darren Galpin's site, he was born in 1964 - Senna in 1960 and Brundle in 1959), I have to wonder why he couldn't move on to F2 or do another year of F3. (or even go to F1)

Was it all about money?
That's a shame, because he seemed to be rather fast when given the right equipment.
(I at least was very impressed by some of his sportscar drives!)

Why didn't he try to come back to Europe again - let's say for F3000 ?
Or did he change his goals to CART or Indy when he left after 1983?

#39 David McKinney

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 20:02

Originally posted by Gert
So,
It seems Davy left for the "New Zealand Formula Pacific Championship" but I guess that wasn't a planned career move.

Maybe not, but an earlier NZ FP series had been the making of one K Rosberg

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#40 MCS

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 20:47

He did the NZ series with Murray Taylor - his British F3 entrant (I think).

Murray - a native Kiwi and one-time Motoring News staffer (F2) - had entered Rosberg to the best of my knowledge.

I sat with Davy one lunchtime at the Portland, Oregon IMSA round in 91 and he was a genuinely nice fellow, absoultely no side to him at all. He was Jaguar's number one driver at the time, but he did, very honestly, express some disappointment with his time in British F3.

Personally, I thought he did very well.

Let's face it, most of his rivals at least knew all of the circuits they raced on...

MCS

#41 David McKinney

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 21:31

Murray Taylor ran a semi-works March effort in NZ for three years, 1978 (with Danny Sullivan as driver), 1979 (te Fabi) and 1980 (Mike Thackwell and Andrea de Cesaris).
Jones's entrant in NZ, with Ralt RT4s, was Graeme Lawrence

#42 MCS

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 22:14

Ooh, I stand corrected - old age and all that !

BTW did Brett Riley race For Murray in the Pacific series...?

MCS

#43 Gert

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 22:15

Originally posted by David McKinney

Maybe not, but an earlier NZ FP series had been the making of one K Rosberg


Originally posted by David McKinney
Murray Taylor ran a semi-works March effort in NZ for three years, 1978 (with Danny Sullivan as driver), 1979 (te Fabi) and 1980 (Mike Thackwell and Andrea de Cesaris).
Jones's entrant in NZ, with Ralt RT4s, was Graeme Lawrence


Interesting! I have to admit I know very little about this NZ series... Perhaps I should search the Forum ... their must surely be something about it :)


Originally posted by MCS
... but he did, very honestly, express some disappointment with his time in British F3.

Personally, I thought he did very well.

Let's face it, most of his rivals at least knew all of the circuits they raced on...


MCS, do you recall why he was disappointed: because he didn't rate his own performances too high, or because he got little recognition for them?

#44 mp4

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 22:21

I have some pretty cool memories of Davy Jones...
IIRC, he started racing in Canada at 15 because the Americans wouldn't let him compete.
I have a picture, somewhere, of him on the podium with Ayrton and Martin, during his F3 days.
He was incredibly talented, when he raced for TWR in a Jag.
I met him twice, at Watkins Glen, and was always ticked that he was racing a GTP car and I wasn't. We're the same age... :drunk:
I was very glad he made it to CART and also relieved after his nasty accident.
All in all, he's a good shit.

#45 MCS

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 22:32

Good question Gert,

I strongly suspect it was the lack of recognition both in the UK and back at home - although that was never stated.

In retrospect, drivers like Allen Berg, Ted Wentz and Tony Rouff - who always claimed his F3 win in the British GP support race in 73 was never recognised back home, or virtually anywhere else for that matter (!) - suffered from similar fates...

Sad really, Jones was very quick and whilst I only saw Berg once or twice, he was clearly very capable.

Wentz and Rouff were obviously talented and their rivalry was the only draw that the terrible "Indylantic" British series had in 1976, save for the "PR" that Tom Pryce would apear at the final round at Oulton Park...of course he didn't, but he probably didn't even know about it anyway.

MCS

#46 LittleChris

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Posted 27 June 2003 - 23:56

I saw both Thruxton F3 races in 1983 and it was fairly obvious that Senna & Brundle were a class above the rest. However,Davy Jones ( who was probably about 18 at the time and looked about 15 ), was the only person who kept close to them for about the first five laps then fell away. I wonder if it may have been a stamina thing. Given that he probably had some maturing yet to come in terms of body strength, possibly the fact that he was racing with a couple of very good drivers means that he was under-rated at the time.

#47 theunions

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 00:27

Originally posted by MCS
In retrospect, drivers like Allen Berg, Ted Wentz and Tony Rouff - who always claimed his F3 win in the British GP support race in 73 was never recognised back home, or virtually anywhere else for that matter (!) - suffered from similar fates...

Wentz and Rouff were obviously talented and their rivalry was the only draw that the terrible "Indylantic" British series had in 1976, save for the "PR" that Tom Pryce would apear at the final round at Oulton Park...of course he didn't, but he probably didn't even know about it anyway.


Whatever happened to Wentz and Rouff?

#48 David McKinney

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 05:55

Originally posted by MCS
BTW did Brett Riley race For Murray in the Pacific series...?

No

#49 ghinzani

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 06:56

Originally posted by theunions


Whatever happened to Wentz and Rouff?


engine builder perhaps?

#50 ghinzani

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Posted 28 June 2003 - 06:59

Originally posted by mp4
I have some pretty cool memories of Davy Jones...
IIRC, he started racing in Canada at 15 because the Americans wouldn't let him compete.


This is something I alluded to in an earlier post - did he actually forge his documents or will the Canadians let you race at 15? I was under the impression you had to be 16 at that time to race in Cananda (witness John Jones and Paul Tracey). Any Candaians like to clear this one up? Thanks