I was just after some information on what was called the Michigan Matich. In 1976 New Zealender Robbie Booth raced a converted Matich Sports Car in the first few rounds of the Peter Stuyvensant series. It was an odd looking car, as being a sports car chassis the driver was sitting to the right, rather than central. It used the sports car roll bar and a wide body. I am wondering what Matich chassis it was, a SR3 possibly????. It ran a Chevrolet engine.
Curt
Michigan Matich
Started by
Bondy
, Jul 05 2003 01:36
21 replies to this topic
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#2
Milan Fistonic
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Posted 05 July 2003 - 02:32
That car was the Katipo MJ70A buit in 1970 by Mark Petch and John Ohlsen. It was based on a Bob Brittain-built Matich SR4 chassis.
It was driven by Robbie Francevic but never achieved any significant results.
After Booth raced the car in 1975 it went to Dennis Phillips. I have a photo of Phillips driving the car in a gravel hillclimb.
Russel Greer won the South Island hillclimb title with the car in 1980.
It was driven by Robbie Francevic but never achieved any significant results.
After Booth raced the car in 1975 it went to Dennis Phillips. I have a photo of Phillips driving the car in a gravel hillclimb.
Russel Greer won the South Island hillclimb title with the car in 1980.
#3
Ray Bell
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Posted 05 July 2003 - 10:10
Britton, Milan... Bob Britton.
Builder of all manner of fine Rennmaxes, Lotuses, Matichs, Brabhams etc.
Builder of all manner of fine Rennmaxes, Lotuses, Matichs, Brabhams etc.
#4
275 GTB-4
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#5
Wolf
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Posted 05 July 2003 - 12:24
Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
It was driven by Robbie Francevic but never achieved any significant results.
This sounds as another driver with Croatian roots down under...
Any confirmation on that? And if so, I'd be obliged for additional information on him. Thnx in advance.
#6
Ray Bell
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Posted 05 July 2003 - 12:55
Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
see discussion here:
http://www.ten-tenth...&threadid=40537
Somebody had better tell them that the Matich A50 is a long way removed from a McLaren M10B...
Wolfie... Robbie Francevic seemed a strange one to me... he was into all sorts of odd cars in the sixties, then in the eighties turned up in a turbocharged Volvo sedan and started looking like a bit of a professional. Raced in Australia in that car and set the scene for Volvo to make a serious attempt on our Touring Car Championship.
#7
Vitesse2
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Posted 05 July 2003 - 13:12
Originally posted by Ray Bell
Somebody had better tell them that the Matich A50 is a long way removed from a McLaren M10B...
Ray - I read that as David correcting a caption or a literal in the Vercoe book.
#8
dmj
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Posted 05 July 2003 - 13:51
A little bit googling on Robbie Francevic brought a lot of interesting results. Member of NZ Wall of fame, seems to be still active in historics. Name sounds undoubtfully Croatian so I am interested in learning more details about him too. But even seeing that he drove in Bathurst sharing car with Brancatelli proves that he had to be very good...
#9
David McKinney
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Posted 05 July 2003 - 16:06
I dunno - you turn your back for a couple of hours and look what happens
A lot requiring comment
Starting with Wolf's comment (plus dmj's)
Yes, Croatian, though in NZ (particularly Auckland) the original immigrant families were known as Dalmatian, or more familiarly - and in no way disparagingly - as Dallies. Most families were winegrowers north of Auckland. Robert Franicevic was, I believe, the first of the community to go motor racing, and had to overcome a lot of family opposition to do so. Later - also in the '60s - came Frank Radisich, Steve Borich, Des Radonich and various others, including Robbie's brilliant engineer, Tony Kriletich.
The name was, as noted, Franicevic but Robbie got so pissed off with people putting the stress on the second syllable instead of the first that he dropped the first 'i'. Still not correct, but a lot closer.
I'm sure there's at least one TNFer who knows more about all this than I do ;)
Ray
You know and I know that a Matich A50 was not a McLaren M10B, but Vercoe obviously didn't
Richard
Not a caption error or a literal, but the main text description of the car
Ray/Wolf
More Francevic stuff -
Principally a tin-top man, winning the NZ championship in 1967 and the Oz in, IIRC, 1980
But like a lot of others spent too much time dabbling rather than concentrating on his driving career. Other priorities perhaps.
But he was a real ace in single-seaters - at which he never persevered. In his fist single-seater drive, in a twincam Brabham BT6, he lapped faster than the much more experienced Graeme Lawrence in a similar car. Next drive was in a 2.5 Brabham-Climax, in which he was a front-runner but only did one race before the team went under. A couple of years later he was down to drive a works BRM P261 in the Tasman Series, and at Pukekohe was quickly down to times competitive with those Rodriguez was doing, before telling team manager Tim Parnell the car was a heap of sh*t and he wouldn't drive it. Then came the unpromising Katipo a year or two later again, a season in a by-then-ageing M10A McLaren, and a half-hearted effort with a Formula Pacific (Atlantic) Modus
A lot requiring comment
Starting with Wolf's comment (plus dmj's)
Yes, Croatian, though in NZ (particularly Auckland) the original immigrant families were known as Dalmatian, or more familiarly - and in no way disparagingly - as Dallies. Most families were winegrowers north of Auckland. Robert Franicevic was, I believe, the first of the community to go motor racing, and had to overcome a lot of family opposition to do so. Later - also in the '60s - came Frank Radisich, Steve Borich, Des Radonich and various others, including Robbie's brilliant engineer, Tony Kriletich.
The name was, as noted, Franicevic but Robbie got so pissed off with people putting the stress on the second syllable instead of the first that he dropped the first 'i'. Still not correct, but a lot closer.
I'm sure there's at least one TNFer who knows more about all this than I do ;)
Ray
You know and I know that a Matich A50 was not a McLaren M10B, but Vercoe obviously didn't
Richard
Not a caption error or a literal, but the main text description of the car
Ray/Wolf
More Francevic stuff -
Principally a tin-top man, winning the NZ championship in 1967 and the Oz in, IIRC, 1980
But like a lot of others spent too much time dabbling rather than concentrating on his driving career. Other priorities perhaps.
But he was a real ace in single-seaters - at which he never persevered. In his fist single-seater drive, in a twincam Brabham BT6, he lapped faster than the much more experienced Graeme Lawrence in a similar car. Next drive was in a 2.5 Brabham-Climax, in which he was a front-runner but only did one race before the team went under. A couple of years later he was down to drive a works BRM P261 in the Tasman Series, and at Pukekohe was quickly down to times competitive with those Rodriguez was doing, before telling team manager Tim Parnell the car was a heap of sh*t and he wouldn't drive it. Then came the unpromising Katipo a year or two later again, a season in a by-then-ageing M10A McLaren, and a half-hearted effort with a Formula Pacific (Atlantic) Modus
#10
Wolf
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Posted 05 July 2003 - 17:54
David & all, thanks a heap. I've been called a Crow by people from Oystralia, so Dallies would be much more 'innocent', although IMHO one would be foolish to take either as remotely offensive. As for Dalmatians- that would be correct, since most our expats in Your parts of the world came from Dalmatia (middle and southern part of our Adriatic coast). I'm struggling not to digress into expats and winegrowing, but I hope to be forgiven if I brag a little; recently, it was proven beyond any doubt that 'mysterious origin' of American Zinfandel is indeed Croatian (California is also full of expats from Dalmatia).
Anyway, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that one could find enough material for a book on Croatian expat drivers (and those of Croatian descendance); it is subject we over here are embarrasingly ignorant of...
I've been called a Crow by people from Oystralia, so Dallies would be much more 'innocent', although IMHO one would be foolish to take either as remotely offensive. As for Dalmatians- that would be correct, since most our expats in Your parts of the world came from Dalmatia (middle and southern part of our Adriatic coast). I'm struggling not to digress into expats and winegrowing, but I hope to be forgiven if I brag a little; recently, it was proven beyond any doubt that 'mysterious origin' of American Zinfandel is indeed Croatian (California is also full of expats from Dalmatia). Anyway, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that one could find enough material for a book on Croatian expat drivers (and those of Croatian descendance); it is subject we over here are embarrasingly ignorant of...
#11
Ray Bell
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Posted 05 July 2003 - 22:02
Matich's father was also a winegrower by birth... which is why he so readily got a job as a cellarman when he stepped off the boat...
Wolf, all of this could prove very interesting... look at the links we have. Radisich buys Matich's M10, Francevic drives the Matich thingy (was it really an SR4 chassis? If so, was it built as a spare? I know there was another chassis in Canberra, must chase that up)... and I never realised before how close Matich himself was to his roots... in his office there are Croatians working for him, the word 'Croatian' came up repeatedly in conversation when he talked about people the other week.
It wasn't always so, I can tell you, at least not publicly. And to know this is to realise how insulting it must have been for him when he won a big race at the 'Farm once...
The presentation was broadcast to a listening audience of perhaps 15,000 keen Farmgoers, a good many of whom would have to some degree revered him. Some dignitary proffered the trophy and announced that it was well deserved by "Frank Mateech" (with a French-sounding pronunciation)!
I think it's a shame that the Matic and Radisic families adopted the 'h' on the end of their names, as well as the Boric and Kiletic and Radonic families, and for Franicevic to drop his 'i'... Frank (Matich) said it was just what they did those days and I guess he's right... but a shame all the same.
David... that's more information on Francevic than I've ever had before, thank you. Like I said, he had this strange career which was on again and off again, the succeeding cars seemingly being out of character with the previous ones at times. He certainly was an aggressive driver and when he put his mind to it was personally sufficiently aggressive to go places with the people who might put a car under him. Very self-assured, I guess you'd have to say.
Radisich, on the other hand, at times exuded timidity and sometimes despair. For this reason I've always been a little surprised to see his son do so well...
Wolf, all of this could prove very interesting... look at the links we have. Radisich buys Matich's M10, Francevic drives the Matich thingy (was it really an SR4 chassis? If so, was it built as a spare? I know there was another chassis in Canberra, must chase that up)... and I never realised before how close Matich himself was to his roots... in his office there are Croatians working for him, the word 'Croatian' came up repeatedly in conversation when he talked about people the other week.
It wasn't always so, I can tell you, at least not publicly. And to know this is to realise how insulting it must have been for him when he won a big race at the 'Farm once...
The presentation was broadcast to a listening audience of perhaps 15,000 keen Farmgoers, a good many of whom would have to some degree revered him. Some dignitary proffered the trophy and announced that it was well deserved by "Frank Mateech" (with a French-sounding pronunciation)!
I think it's a shame that the Matic and Radisic families adopted the 'h' on the end of their names, as well as the Boric and Kiletic and Radonic families, and for Franicevic to drop his 'i'... Frank (Matich) said it was just what they did those days and I guess he's right... but a shame all the same.
David... that's more information on Francevic than I've ever had before, thank you. Like I said, he had this strange career which was on again and off again, the succeeding cars seemingly being out of character with the previous ones at times. He certainly was an aggressive driver and when he put his mind to it was personally sufficiently aggressive to go places with the people who might put a car under him. Very self-assured, I guess you'd have to say.
Radisich, on the other hand, at times exuded timidity and sometimes despair. For this reason I've always been a little surprised to see his son do so well...
#12
Wolf
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Posted 06 July 2003 - 00:04
You guys are great, thanks Ray. Unfortunately, I have to leave on vacation today, so will have to let Dino tend to this fountain of knowledge.
BTW, why would it be a shame if they adopted 'ch' spelling? Firstly, it's a closest consonantin English to the letter (see, I'd insert it here, but not even my PC will display few Croatian characters here ;)), although some familliar with alpine skiing (for example) would recognize it as Norwegian/(more rarely) Swedish 'kj', as in Lasse Kjuss, or Kjetil Andre Aamodt, whereas the English 'ch' is different letter. To bore You even more, here's my surname with proper spelling (it had to be an image), where first c letter is 'ch' and second 'kj'- as a matter of curiosity, if Croatian surname ends with c/ch, it's almost invariaby second character (Slovenians usualy have surnames ending with English 'ch').
Unfortunately, I have to leave on vacation today, so will have to let Dino tend to this fountain of knowledge.BTW, why would it be a shame if they adopted 'ch' spelling? Firstly, it's a closest consonantin English to the letter (see, I'd insert it here, but not even my PC will display few Croatian characters here ;)), although some familliar with alpine skiing (for example) would recognize it as Norwegian/(more rarely) Swedish 'kj', as in Lasse Kjuss, or Kjetil Andre Aamodt, whereas the English 'ch' is different letter. To bore You even more, here's my surname with proper spelling (it had to be an image), where first c letter is 'ch' and second 'kj'- as a matter of curiosity, if Croatian surname ends with c/ch, it's almost invariaby second character (Slovenians usualy have surnames ending with English 'ch').
#13
Bondy
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Posted 06 July 2003 - 01:00
Hmmmm, how many Matich Sports chassis were built????, i was in Paul Corner's workshop back in about 95, and up a 2nd floor was this old chassis, i asked him if it was what i thought it was and he was somewhat amazed that i even knew what a Matich was (i was 25 at the time, lol) anyway to be honest i can't remeber what he told me about it, i think it was a SR4, but im sure he said it wasnt raced, next to it was a Spors car called the Trident, i think this car ran in Queensland for many tears, i think in its later stages it ran a BMW.
Curt
Curt
#14
275 GTB-4
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Posted 06 July 2003 - 04:30
Originally posted by Ray Bell
Wolf, all of this could prove very interesting... look at the links we have. Radisich buys Matich's M10, Francevic drives the Matich thingy (was it really an SR4 chassis? If so, was it built as a spare? I know there was another chassis in Canberra, must chase that up)... and I never realised before how close Matich himself was to his roots... in his office there are Croatians working for him, the word 'Croatian' came up repeatedly in conversation when he talked about people the other week.
Ray, looks like a visit to the Deakin Sports & Social Club is in order next time you are in Canberra. It is the home of the Croatia Deakin Soccer Club and also the meeting place for several car clubs in Canberra.
#15
Milan Fistonic
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Posted 06 July 2003 - 04:53
This is the description of the Katipo that appeared in Motorman in February 1971.
The Auckland-built Katipo is of Australian origin because it uses the Matich SR4 sports car chassis as its basis. The car is too wide and heavy to be competitive but the makers John Olsen (sic) and Mark Petch are using the vehicle as a test bed and have a full monocoque Formula A car on the way for next season. The Katipo clearly shows its sports car heritage with the off-set cockpit and short track ( at 94 inches this is 2 inches shorter than a standard M10 McLaren).
It has Kiwi made uprights, and while no McLaren parts are used, the pick-up points and suspension deometry are the same. Small outboard Girling discs, a side-mounted oil radiator (Lotus 72 style) and large water radiator mounted on top of the engine in front of the aerofoil are features of the Katipo MJ70-2. The car uses a rebuilt Bartz Chev engine on carbs, a ZF gearbox and American Halibrand wheels. It was undergeared for Wigram and the lengthy task to change ratios prevented any change.
The Auckland-built Katipo is of Australian origin because it uses the Matich SR4 sports car chassis as its basis. The car is too wide and heavy to be competitive but the makers John Olsen (sic) and Mark Petch are using the vehicle as a test bed and have a full monocoque Formula A car on the way for next season. The Katipo clearly shows its sports car heritage with the off-set cockpit and short track ( at 94 inches this is 2 inches shorter than a standard M10 McLaren).
It has Kiwi made uprights, and while no McLaren parts are used, the pick-up points and suspension deometry are the same. Small outboard Girling discs, a side-mounted oil radiator (Lotus 72 style) and large water radiator mounted on top of the engine in front of the aerofoil are features of the Katipo MJ70-2. The car uses a rebuilt Bartz Chev engine on carbs, a ZF gearbox and American Halibrand wheels. It was undergeared for Wigram and the lengthy task to change ratios prevented any change.
#16
David McKinney
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Posted 06 July 2003 - 06:16
Very perceptive observations, RayOriginally posted by Ray Bell
Like I said, [Francevic] had this strange career which was on again and off again, the succeeding cars seemingly being out of character with the previous ones at times. He certainly was an aggressive driver and when he put his mind to it was personally sufficiently aggressive to go places with the people who might put a car under him. Very self-assured, I guess you'd have to say.
Radisich, on the other hand, at times exuded timidity and sometimes despair. For this reason I've always been a little surprised to see his son do so well...
#17
Ray Bell
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Posted 06 July 2003 - 09:54
Well... I don't have a pretty face...
Interesting, isn't it... every Matich car that went to NZ went to a Croatian.
However, the Brabham was sold to Red Dawson... I guess he isn't/wasn't Croatian... but it was sold to him by Boral anyway, I gather.
Interesting, isn't it... every Matich car that went to NZ went to a Croatian.
However, the Brabham was sold to Red Dawson... I guess he isn't/wasn't Croatian... but it was sold to him by Boral anyway, I gather.
#18
dmj
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Posted 06 July 2003 - 16:02
Obviously I should have spent more time reading threads about AU/NZ racing... Wolf's idea of book about racing personalities of Croatian origin seems very interesting. By the way, Ray, what is the status of Matich book? When it will be published count me in for an order - more I learn about the man, more he intrigues me...
As for Matich not being so loud about his origins before, it is sad but understandable - if he has living relatives here they should had problems during communism, if he was related to what was known as "enemy emigration". No ethnic organisations of our immigrants were recognized as valid unless they were pro-Yugoslav. If any such organisation had word "Croatian" it was labelled from Yugoslav authorities as fascist and obstructed in any possible way. Any domestic relatives of prominent members of such organisations were considered as treat to the system, they couldn't have passports and often had serious problems with authorities, including inprisonments...
On personal note, I can describe how ridicolous things used to be here: one of my distant relatives had a brother living in France. Not too long after WWII he wrote her a letter. As a passionate researcher of heraldics he asked her if she can send him details of new Yugoslav flag and arm. Letter was, of course, opened by secret police (before she even could read it), as every one coming from abroad used to be. Both her and her husband were immediately imprisoned and sentenced for espionage. Both were forced to work while enduring sentence, in a coal mine and textil factory respectably, for around 3 years, IIRC, while their children fortunately weren't taken from them but given to my grandma (as she was a member of Communist party, thus convenient to do it) to care for them while they were in prison.
In later decades things generally weren't so harsh but similar things still could happen. So my guess would be that Matich, as many other Croatian people abroad, tried to be as non-political as possible to avoid problems for himself and his relatives. Besides it, one has to admit that there were some "Croatian" organisations really linked with ex-fascists and those did much harm to the reputation of Croats around the world. It's quite possibly that Matich wanted to keep distance from such ones.
And Radisich thing confuses me too - I am sure I had read of Paul Radisich being of Serbian ancestry - surname could be both Croatian or Serbian, while Matich or Franicevich/Francevich are undoubtfully Croatian. But now I am intrigued to find more details about Radisich racing family too.
As for Matich not being so loud about his origins before, it is sad but understandable - if he has living relatives here they should had problems during communism, if he was related to what was known as "enemy emigration". No ethnic organisations of our immigrants were recognized as valid unless they were pro-Yugoslav. If any such organisation had word "Croatian" it was labelled from Yugoslav authorities as fascist and obstructed in any possible way. Any domestic relatives of prominent members of such organisations were considered as treat to the system, they couldn't have passports and often had serious problems with authorities, including inprisonments...
On personal note, I can describe how ridicolous things used to be here: one of my distant relatives had a brother living in France. Not too long after WWII he wrote her a letter. As a passionate researcher of heraldics he asked her if she can send him details of new Yugoslav flag and arm. Letter was, of course, opened by secret police (before she even could read it), as every one coming from abroad used to be. Both her and her husband were immediately imprisoned and sentenced for espionage. Both were forced to work while enduring sentence, in a coal mine and textil factory respectably, for around 3 years, IIRC, while their children fortunately weren't taken from them but given to my grandma (as she was a member of Communist party, thus convenient to do it) to care for them while they were in prison.
In later decades things generally weren't so harsh but similar things still could happen. So my guess would be that Matich, as many other Croatian people abroad, tried to be as non-political as possible to avoid problems for himself and his relatives. Besides it, one has to admit that there were some "Croatian" organisations really linked with ex-fascists and those did much harm to the reputation of Croats around the world. It's quite possibly that Matich wanted to keep distance from such ones.
And Radisich thing confuses me too - I am sure I had read of Paul Radisich being of Serbian ancestry - surname could be both Croatian or Serbian, while Matich or Franicevich/Francevich are undoubtfully Croatian. But now I am intrigued to find more details about Radisich racing family too.
#19
Allen Brown
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Posted 06 July 2003 - 19:24
only by about 10-20 feet, I would guess. The Matich-built M10 tub, the third one to go into his car, was built at his workshops just as they were working away on the Matich A50.Originally posted by Ray Bell
Somebody had better tell them that the Matich A50 is a long way removed from a McLaren M10B...
I imagine that is what confused Vercoe. As the tub was built by Matich and as the first A50 tub appears to have vanished, one could easily put two and two together...
Allen
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#20
Allen Brown
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Posted 06 July 2003 - 19:40
Originally posted by allenbrown in "another place"
This just in from Milan. Dennis Philips hillclimbing the Katipo at Anderson's Farm. Year unknown.
Or click here for a larger image.
Thanks Milan.
Allen
#21
Ray Bell
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Posted 07 July 2003 - 05:15
I'm not sure, Allen, how far apart they might have been...
I know that Bowin Designs did a lot of work on the first Matich F5000s, so they might have been at John Joyce's workshop while the McLaren was at Matich's.
dmj... Matich said his father's who family was killed in World War 2... whether he was speaking literally or figuratively I don't know.
The book isn't started yet, so don't hold your breath. I'll do it, but it might take a while.
I know that Bowin Designs did a lot of work on the first Matich F5000s, so they might have been at John Joyce's workshop while the McLaren was at Matich's.
dmj... Matich said his father's who family was killed in World War 2... whether he was speaking literally or figuratively I don't know.
The book isn't started yet, so don't hold your breath. I'll do it, but it might take a while.
#22
Paul Newby
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Posted 07 July 2003 - 10:35
Just a correction on the Francevic history.
He debuted a Mark Petch Volvo 240T in the Aust Touring Car C'ship in 1985, this morphed into an official Volvo dealer team in '86 with a second car for John Bowe. Francevic won the '86 ATCC, but given his strident manner was out of the team before Bathurst that year and IIRC landed himself a ride in a Petch owned Ford Sierra.
I think he drifted from the Australian scene after that, no, he drove a "JPS" BMW M3 with Ludwig Finauer at Bathurst in '87, and a Sierra with Armin Hahne in '88
He debuted a Mark Petch Volvo 240T in the Aust Touring Car C'ship in 1985, this morphed into an official Volvo dealer team in '86 with a second car for John Bowe. Francevic won the '86 ATCC, but given his strident manner was out of the team before Bathurst that year and IIRC landed himself a ride in a Petch owned Ford Sierra.
I think he drifted from the Australian scene after that, no, he drove a "JPS" BMW M3 with Ludwig Finauer at Bathurst in '87, and a Sierra with Armin Hahne in '88
