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Gilles Villeneuve crossing the line


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#1 Japan Time

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 06:13

Can anyone explain/describe me what happened there ? I do not quite understand !

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#2 dbltop

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 08:31

I believe the first two images show Gilles taking the chequered flag and the second two images are taken 1 lap later. Gilles was handed the flag and did a "victory" lap. Why don't they do that anymore I wonder?

#3 JtP

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 09:33

Canada 78, so the whys and wherefores obvious.

Victory laps with flags were sort of banned by Max and Bernie around 94. I can't remember who was the last person to do it, but they recieved much flak from the authorities. Senna used to hide a Brazilian flag at a marshal's post for his victory laps, but after his passing the practice was frowned upon.

After all the moralising by motor racing authorities I watched Kevin Schwantz winning at Donnington in the 500 motorcycle GP. M&B would have had kittens if they had been in charge.

#4 mikedeering

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 09:42

Hill had a large Union Jack to celebrate winning at Silverstone 1994 - I think he was fined. I don't recall seeing anyone else try it after that.

I think the authorities realised that in order for the drivers to wave a flag, a spectator would have to climb over the fence and get on the track - that's why they banned it.

One of the funniest moments I saw was at Donnington 93. Senna of course memorably won that day, and spotted a Brazil flag in the crowd. He called over the fan, and waited for the flag to be brought to him. He waved it and then drove off, only for the flag to slip from his hand and be left on the track - all that effort and he never got to drive around with it!

Wasn't it Mike Hawthorn who stopped at a marshalls post on a victory lap at Silverstone and collected a pint of beer, which he then proceeded to drink as he drove the rest of the lap? Apparently the marshalls had taunted him throughout the race by waving the beer at him, so Mike figured he would stop and get some after the race!

#5 Japan Time

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 10:29

So... If I get it Gilles Villeneuve crossed the finish line once, then
he drove one more lap around the circuit, and then he asked the
race marshall for his flag and did a second "parade lap".

This may be one lap too many, huh ? :confused:

#6 mikedeering

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 10:32

Things were a bit more laid back in 1978 regarding post race protocol and procedures.

#7 Geza Sury

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 10:54

Originally posted by mikedeering
One of the funniest moments I saw was at Donnington 93. Senna of course memorably won that day, and spotted a Brazil flag in the crowd. He called over the fan, and waited for the flag to be brought to him. He waved it and then drove off, only for the flag to slip from his hand and be left on the track - all that effort and he never got to drive around with it!

The following story happened after the 1992 Hungarian GP was flagged. I was sitting at the end of the start/finish straight in the spectator area, relatively close to the circuit. Senna, who had won, stopped in front of us in his slowing down lap to see if we had a Brazilian flag. Although I was a Senna fan at that time (and still am) I had none, so after he realized it, disappointedly motored away :blush:

#8 Gary Davies

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 11:09

Originally posted by mikedeering
Wasn't it Mike Hawthorn who stopped at a marshalls post on a victory lap at Silverstone and collected a pint of beer, which he then proceeded to drink as he drove the rest of the lap? Apparently the marshalls had taunted him throughout the race by waving the beer at him, so Mike figured he would stop and get some after the race!


Voilà :)

From my very yellowed and falling to bits copy of Champion Year.

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#9 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 12:38

Just to pipe in here to say that a victory lap with the checker in hand is no cinch job. I won an amatuer FF race many years ago (all the hot dogs were elsewhere) and found the aero drag on the fluttering flag incredible. I probably didn't exceed 60 mph anywhere on the victory lap and was hard pressed to hold on to the sucker. I had to slow down, re-grasp the flag in a partially furrled fashion and proceed with care to avoid having my arm ripped out of it's socket!

#10 Andrew Murphy

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 12:48

My guess would be that Max and Bern stopped the victory lap procedure because:

a) the post race interviews would have to be delayed
b) people often run on the track after a race and this is a potentially dangerous situation. I remeber Senna and Mansell being totally mobbed on the track and having bits of their cars ripped off. Can't remebre when or where.


Drew

#11 mikedeering

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 13:53

Originally posted by Vanwall


Voilà :)

From my very yellowed and falling to bits copy of Champion Year.


Thanks Vanwall. I'm impressed with my memory - I pretty much recalled the story as Mike told it! :)

#12 John B

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 14:06

I remember a picture from the 1983 Monza race on the cool down lap -- winner Piquet and Cheever are trying to negotiate through a mob -- and one of the spectators is sticking his middle finger in NP's visor :lol: Piquet also had an orange thrown at his car in the closing laps.....

Not even Gilles was exempt here.....while he was on the track in 1981 his helicopter was broken into twice and all his personal effects/documents stolen....

#13 oldtimer

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Posted 09 July 2003 - 15:52

Originally posted by JtP
Canada 78, so the whys and wherefores obvious.

M&B would have had kittens if they had been in charge.


M&B would have kittens just watching a motorcycle GP. :)

#14 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 13:48

I understand that at the occasion of his passing that Senna had a furled up Austrian flag in his cockpit with him. Presumably he had planned to wave it on his victory lap to commemorate his friend Roland Ratzenberger.

So, that said, what's stopping a driver from secreting whatever he wants (within reason) in his cockpit?

A flag, a small stuffed animal, perhaps a picture drawn by his children?

No need for a spectator to be involved.

I think usually Senna didn't plan on winning (thus the stories about asking fans for flags) but I guess he felt strongly enough about Ratzenberger that he figured even if he made the podium (which probably wasn't a bad bet) that he could wave the flag to show solidarity.

That wasn't expressed very well--as Senna himself said, he raced to win and nothing else. He also said something along the lines of "I know I cannot win every race. However I hope that today is not one of those days."


I always thought that's a nice comment. It means that when he's detached and sees the big picture, even someone as egotistical as he realized that every weekend was not to be his. However during the weekend, in the heat of the battle, he would banish all thoughts to the contrary and drive to win and to win only.

I've always thought that was a sage comment. As someone else famous once said, the mark of true intelligence is the ability to have in one's mind two opposing thoughts at the same time.


#15 fines

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 17:34

Originally posted by OfficeLinebacker
So, that said, what's stopping a driver from secreting whatever he wants (within reason) in his cockpit?

A flag, a small stuffed animal, perhaps a picture drawn by his children?

Kelly Petillo used to carry baby shoes in the cockpit of his race cars. Not sure of the purpose, to my knowledge he never waved at the crowds with them! :yawn:

#16 picblanc

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 18:03

Originally posted by JtP
Canada 78, so the whys and wherefores obvious.

Victory laps with flags were sort of banned by Max and Bernie around 94. I can't remember who was the last person to do it, but they recieved much flak from the authorities. Senna used to hide a Brazilian flag at a marshal's post for his victory laps, but after his passing the practice was frowned upon.

After all the moralising by motor racing authorities I watched Kevin Schwantz winning at Donnington in the 500 motorcycle GP. M&B would have had kittens if they had been in charge.


Probably cos dear old Max and Bernard, don't have the image rights to the flags of the Nations,..... "you cant wave them sonny"!!

#17 Smudger

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 18:04

Originally posted by Japan Time
So... If I get it Gilles Villeneuve crossed the finish line once, then
he drove one more lap around the circuit, and then he asked the
race marshall for his flag and did a second "parade lap".

This may be one lap too many, huh ? :confused:


That would be called a 'lap of honour'. Now banned because it delays the driver getting to the podium/press conference. IIRC. At one time it was invariably done, so that the driver could take the applause of the crowd.

#18 Smudger

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 18:07

Originally posted by fines

Kelly Petillo used to carry baby shoes in the cockpit of his race cars. Not sure of the purpose, to my knowledge he never waved at the crowds with them! :yawn:


Tim Flocks, NASCAR driver in the 50s, used to drive with a monkey loose in the car. He once lost a race (allegedly) because of an in-car fight with said monkey. He was eventually banned for life for trying to start a drivers' union. He died in 1998.

#19 picblanc

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 18:09

Originally posted by Smudger


That would be called a 'lap of honour'. Now banned because it delays the driver getting to the podium/press conference. IIRC. At one time it was invariably done, so that the driver could take the applause of the crowd.


Interesting comment that, cos the paying spectators are completely immaterial now, its bums on seats (in the literal sense!) in front of the TV's now that matter!!

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#20 giacomo

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 21:21

Originally posted by mikedeering
Hill had a large Union Jack to celebrate winning at Silverstone 1994 - I think he was fined. I don't recall seeing anyone else try it after that.

I believe to remember Panis with a French flag after winning in Monaco.

#21 Jones Foyer

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 21:36

Originally posted by Smudger


Tim Flocks, NASCAR driver in the 50s, used to drive with a monkey loose in the car. He once lost a race (allegedly) because of an in-car fight with said monkey. He was eventually banned for life for trying to start a drivers' union. He died in 1998.


I thought you must be joking...but no. Wow!


http://www.classicca...ead.php?p=77716

"I actually raced with a monkey, which I named Jocko Flocko, for eight races in 1953. It started as a publicity stunt, and we gave him his own driving uniform and a specially designed seat."

"Back then the cars had a trap door that we could pull open with a chain to check our tire wear. Well, during the Raleigh 300, Jocko got loose from his seat and stuck his head through the trap door, and he went berserk! Listen, it was hard enough to drive those heavy old cars back then under normal circumstances, but with a crazed monkey clawing you at the same time, it becomes nearly impossible! I had to come into the pits to put him out and ended up third. The pit stop cost me second place and a $600.00 difference in my paycheck. Jocko was retired immediately. I had to get that monkey off my back!"

#22 fines

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 21:40

For what's it worth, as I recall it only stopping on the slowing-down lap was (is?) forbidden, and when Williams could prove that Damon didn't actually stop to pick up the flag, he escaped punishment - which would've been a head chop, I believe.

#23 TrackDog

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 21:15

Originally posted by fines

Kelly Petillo used to carry baby shoes in the cockpit of his race cars. Not sure of the purpose, to my knowledge he never waved at the crowds with them! :yawn:


Wasn't it Peter DePaolo who started that tradition in the early '20's? IIRC, after he won at Indy in 1925, it became a fad to hang them from the rearview mirror.


Dan

#24 fines

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Posted 07 August 2008 - 21:25

De Paolo actually "wore" them on his front axle! (I've seen pictures!) Must be an Italian thing, you're right. But: what rear view mirror? People recall that Ray Harroun was the first to use one at Indy in 1911, but he also was (probably) the last for another fifty years!;)

#25 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 01:32

Jocko Flocko. What a stunt.

Tony Stewart used to bring a pet monkey to the track, but didn't take him in the car!

Dale Jr. used to carry a replica of "wilson" from the movie "Castaway" w/ Tom Hanks.

Who was it--Dick Trickle--used to drive in wing tip shoes and smoke cigarettes during the cautions. So he presumably had a pack of cigs and a lighter with him. I think the smoke confused a few people back in the day.

Robby Gordon apparently carries an assortment of "debris" in his cockpit with him!

(j/k--based on a famous incident when he was one of the few to actually get caught throwing a piece of roll bar padding out of his cockpit to bring out a caution. Still denied it, even when NASCAR matched up the "debris" to a missing piece of padding in his car)

#26 Ray Bell

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 04:15

Is Frank Gardner's claim true... he says that he asked why the NASCAR Ford he was about to jump into had a cigarette lighter...

He says he was told it was so the driver could light up a cigar during yellow periods.

#27 dbltop

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 05:46

Dave Marcis is famous for the wing tip shoes and David Pearson is the driver who had a cigarette lighter in his race cars. The stories say he used to flick his butts at other drivers.

#28 TrackDog

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 06:17

I once read an article about Bobby Allison back in the late '70's; there was a picture of the dashboard of one of his racecars with an 8-track player mounted underneath it!

Don't know just where they mounted the speakers, though...

Also watched THE CROWD ROARS tonight, a couple of scenes where Spud Conners raced with baby shoes in his car. Hard to tell if the scenes were from the original 1932 or later[and awful] remake from 1939...since reels from both were spliced together for the 1932 version[which wasn't released until after the latter bombed in theaters...].


Dan

#29 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 14:23

Originally posted by dbltop
Dave Marcis is famous for the wing tip shoes and David Pearson is the driver who had a cigarette lighter in his race cars. The stories say he used to flick his butts at other drivers.


thanks