19 replies to this topic

[cheesy poofs]

Thanks to another thread, I visited Jan Lammers' website and to my surprise......the Dutchman was a potential driver to replace Gilles Villeneuve in 1982 !!

Read here: janlammers.com

Does anyone have more details about this ?

[No27]

Never heard of this before, he kept it quiet all the time. There were some rumours around, I believe, 1983 that he probably was to replace a injured Alain Prost. The injuries were not bad enough to let it ever come so far.

Anyway, if it's true, it is missing His Great Moment in live. Ferrari had WC material in 1982 and 1983!

[Marcel Visbeen]

I heard about this rumour back in 1982, and it may well be true. Maybe the fact that Lammers didn't get the drive was because he injured his thumb in practice in the Detroit Grand prix.

In Monaco 1982 Alain Prost crashed heavilly in his Renault and team management asked Lammers to stand by for the next race. Eventually Prost was fit to drive in Detroit and even set pole-position in the same practace in which Lammers broke his thumb. Lammers himself was replaced by Geoff Lees in the Theodore for the next race in Canada.
Maybe that injury cost him the Ferrari-drive as well, because by July Lammers was still not 100% fit and Tambay drove for Ferrari. In fact Lammers even lost his Theodore drive to Tommy Byrne and as a result he wasn't even present when Tambay won for Ferrari in Hockenheim. Maybe best, because I think that if the rumours were true that must have hurt.
In a couple of months Lammers missed the oportunity to race the two fastest cars of the field. The thumb eventually healed but Lammers F1 career never recovered...

[paulhooft]

expensive..
thumb....
to say the least...

[Arjan de Roos]

I also heard the rumor (back in 1982) that Piccini had a contract with him to Detroit to sign Jan as second driver to Pironi. Then Jan injured his thumb during qualifying.

What is a fact is that Gilles talked to Jan during testing in winter 1980. Lammers was among a group of drivers testing for Lotus. Chapman eventually chose for De Angelis. Gilles said to Jan that he preferred Jan to join Lotus...

[mat1]

Autosport history is full of what-if's indeed.

Still, it is a pity. Lammers seems to be a very likeable guy, and is knowledgeable. Here in Holland he is a regular commentator on TV, and he is very good at it.

When you look at the career of drivers, it is essential to have at the right moment a lot of money behind you, unless you are very lucky or maybe very talented, and this talent is immedately recognized.

That is a difference to other sports: it is more or less impossible to get there on talent alone.

Or am I to pessimistic?

mat1

[lustigson]

And, lest we forget... Jan Lammers is quite the talent. He's just won his second FIA Sportscar Championship in a row.

[Darren Galpin]

Yes, but not against that much opposition. Sometimes there have been as few as 9 cars on the grid, half of those being the lighter SR2 class. With his pedigree, he *should* have won that championship!

[Lipp]

Well... he also did very good for a privateer in Le Mans this year...

[Théodore33]

Hy,

Does anyone know how to enlarge the pictures of the Jan Lammers site ? (janlammers.com)

Thanks

[theunions]

Originally posted by Théodore33
Does anyone know how to enlarge the pictures of the Jan Lammers site ? (janlammers.com)

The webmaster only posted those thumbnails, so you'd have to find the original sources.

[gdecarli]

1982 was not the first time Ferrari thought to Lammers, as he did also in 1980. Jan could have replaced Scheckter in 1981, as well as Prost, Pironi (who of course really joined Ferrari), Rick Mears and Piquet. At least, these were rumors I can read on Autosprint 22/1980.

Somewhere else (on Autosprint as well) I read also about a remote possibility for Lammers to drive a third Ferrari at Italian GP 1980. While Scheckter and Villeneuve should have had traditional 312T5 (as they had), he should have driven new turbo engine.

We know that he has never driven any Ferrari, but Ferrari turbo was at Imola, driven by Villeneuve, I don't recall if in free test or in practice (surely not during the race).

Ciao,
Guido

[Marcel Visbeen]

Originally posted by gdecarli
Ferrari turbo was at Imola, driven by Villeneuve, I don't recall if in free test or in practice (surely not during the race).

IIRC Villeneuve drove the 126C in official practice and was faster with it than with the traditional T5

[gdecarli]

From Grand Prix.com
(...) Ferrari appeared with the new 126C turbo car in the hands of Villeneuve (Jody Scheckter had announced that he would be retiring at the end of the year) but the car was not reliable. (...)

From Grand Prix Racing
(...) Villeneuve had tried out the new-look chunky 126C turbo and sent the tifosi into raptures when he scored the eighth fastest time, before going on to blow his turbo. For the race he opted for the more reliable, normally aspirated T5 as the new car was returned to Maranello for some extra work. (...)

So Villeneuve qualified with Ferrari turbo and raced (and crashed) with "old" 312T5. I wish to have a picture about first 126C, maybe I have on Autosprint, but my last one dated 1980 was issued two weeks before Italian GP...

Ciao,
Guido

[René de Boer]

Last week, a book about all the eleven Dutch racing drivers that have competed in at least one Grand Prix was launched. The title of the book is "Dwars door de Tarzanbocht" (sideways through Tarzan corner), written by Dutch motorsport journalist, Hans van der Klis and published by LJ Veen, Amsterdam.

The book includes chapters on Jan Flinterman and Dries van der Lof, Carel Godin de Beaufort, Ben Pon, Gijs van Lennep, Roelof Wunderink, Boy Hayje, Michael Bleekemolen, Jan Lammers, Huub Rothengatter and Jos Verstappen.

In the chapter about Jan Lammers, it reads:

from: "Dwars door de Tarzanbocht", by Hans van der Klis
... In Monaco, at his second race with Theodore, Lammers was approached by Mario [sic] Piccinini, Ferrari's team manager. A fortnight earlier, at the Belgian Grand Prix, the incredibly popular Ferrari-driver Gilles Villeneuve had been killed. Out of piety, Ferrari had entered only one car for Monaco, but in Canada, Villeneuve's homeland, Ferrari wanted to be back with two drivers as usual. Piccinini and Lammers agreed to continue their negotiations at Detroit. But in practice for the American Grand Prix, Lammers broke his thumb in a stupid accident. 'It was a few days after my birthday, the team had a birthday cake ready', Lammers recalls. 'I was keen to race in Canada, when it would have to be even with a few screws in my hand. But the FIA-doctor forbid me to race in Montreal. Never heard anything from Piccinini again.' A few months later, Patrick Tambay, the driver that was hired to replace Gilles Villeneuve, won his first Grand Prix.

What would have been if...

[gdecarli]

By the way: Lammars lost his Ferrari because of a broken thumb BEFORE the contract, Tambay had several health problems (I don't know their English name) AFTER his arrival in Ferrari...
Was Jan a little bit unlucky in this matter?

Ciao,
Guido

[ghinzani]

By the way: Lammars lost his Ferrari because of a broken thumb BEFORE the contract, Tambay had several health problems (I don't know their English name) AFTER his arrival in Ferrari...
Was Jan a little bit unlucky in this matter?

Ciao,
Guido

Indeed, there was point after Pironi was seriously injured that Tambays back went and they were left with no drivers in a race (Austria?) - shame Jan was'nt on call then, but the Theodore had pretty much ruined his stock at that time. Shame as the little man was great in the wet and one of those practice sessions in Austria MUST have been wet, surely?

[Tim Murray]

Tambay finsihed fourth in Austria after a great recovery drive following a puncture. It was the 'Swiss' race that he (and Ferrari) missed after he did his back in.

[Formula Once]

Having worked with Jan for almost 20 years now, here is what I know:

Enzo Ferrari liked what he saw when Jan raced the ATS in 1980, particularly when he (after a lenghtly first lap pit stop following Daly's crash) managed to keep up with Villeneuve's Ferrari for many laps at Monaco and keeping Jody Scheckter behind him at Zolder. This is what Daniele Audetto told me years later; Jan was on Ferrari's list after those two races.

Two years later, following Gilles' accident, Jan was indeed contacted (in Monaco) by Marco Piccinini about replacing Villeneuve, something they would discuss further in Detroit. This was, by the way, always going to be from Zandvoort (not Montreal) onwards (which makes sense; one wouldn't wait to agree on a deal untill Detroit when Montreal was just one week later, logistically not logical).

Jan's Theodore-contract was an issue (Ferrari never liked to break other people's contracts) but that could have easily been sorted. Jan says that on the morning of the practice day he broke his thumb in Detroit, he had agreed with Piccinini to meet him that evening to further discuss things. Jan breaking his thumb changed things of course and although Piccinini promised him a test at Fiorano later that year, Jan never heard of it again.

Fact is, though, that Ferrari announced Tambay as Villeneuve's replacement on Tuesday June 1 (so on the Tuesday before Detroit)...

When I spoke to Audetto at Le Mans in 1998, he said "the old man was always keen on Jan after what he did with the ATS. After Gilles' crash, though, he seemed to be a little scared of hiring another very small driver, as if he wanted someone bigger, less breakable..." Which is a bit ironic, considering the neck trouble Tambay suffered when he drove the Ferrari that year...

Edited by Formula Once, 04 February 2010 - 07:45.

[Formula Once]

By the way: I always thought that not Jan's thumb, but Didier Pironi played a crucial role. Pironi said of Tambay (a close friend of his) joining him as team mate: "I have been personally involved in signing Patrick, the team would not have hired anyone against my will."