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Ferrari 330 P4


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#1 cheesy poofs

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 15:56

Last weekend at Mt-Tremblant, I was gazing at Lawrence Stroll's amazing Ferrari 330 P4 ( s/n 0856 ).
AFAIK, at more or less $USD 10 Milion, this race car is one of the most expensive in the world.

What other race cars are valued at this price ??

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#2 Pedro 917

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 17:25

The Ford GT40 chassis # 1075 (Le Mans winner in 1968 & 1969) must be priceless I guess.

#3 dretceterini

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 18:32

I would think current values are somewhat dependent on the ages of those with enough funds to buy. Personally, I would see no reason for a 330P to be worth 10 million and an 8c2900B Alfa worth "only" 4 or 5 million, but that is what the market is..

#4 ray b

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 18:35

well the GTO's useto go for up to 13-14 million
I would bet a silver arrow[pre-war GP] would go for MORE

BTW in early 80's miami there was a P-3/4
semi-regularly driven on the streets of coconut grove
painted white, [heat] but a real ferrari P-car with v12 race sounds
and speeds
I tryed to follow him once in a chevy v8,
but he was just gone at insane speeds on a curvey road
but thats what those cars were for SPEED

I sometimes wish the collectors had never got in to cars
cars belong on the roads at prices carnuts can afford

#5 cheesy poofs

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 18:45

Whatever its actual price tag, the P4 was not only on display,
but it was raced hard 'round Mt-Tremblant !!

#6 David M. Kane

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Posted 12 July 2003 - 00:56

Right you Cheesy, but you forgot about the other race where the GTO hunted
down the SWB 250GT, they were within inches of one another for two or three
laps before the GTO got up the guts to pass. I use the terms "guts" with
the greatest respect because if I own the car I would have been back about
10 feet, but when you got real money, you've got real money.

The P4 driver apparently is the ex-big wig from Tommy Hilfiger and he owns
the track as well as half the mountain it sits on!

#7 MarkWill

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Posted 12 July 2003 - 01:10

What colour was the P4?

#8 dbw

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Posted 12 July 2003 - 01:42

that's a lot of euros for sure....my guess that if it were ever to come up for sale[doubtful now]the vanderbilt locomobile "old 16" might fetch a fair amount in the states...it is,after all,the mona lisa of american racers...

#9 David M. Kane

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Posted 12 July 2003 - 01:52

It was yellow, I never did clarify if it was a Ferrari of Belgium car.
Cheesy might know. The guy took over the whole lower paddock for himself
and his friend. It was a kinda McNally segregated Paddock thing for those
with $M and above cars.

#10 MarkWill

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Posted 12 July 2003 - 19:25

I have a few pictures of that car - some of them quite nice - from the Ferrari meetning last year. If anyone has the patience to post them, I'll send them to you.

Hi Cheesy Poofs. :wave:

#11 flsp

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 23:19

Ok, I found out that the P3/4 is c/s 0850

"96/8 - engine rebuilt by Servizio per Ferrari, FL - yellow

2000/.. - Lawrence Stroll, CDN $6.5mio +

2000/Feb - Adrian Hamilton, asking $6.75mio".

http://www.barchetta...l/0850.412P.htm

#12 wibblywobbly

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 01:30

Thanks for posting the pics! Beautiful cars! I suppose the cars value, also depends on who drove it?

#13 biercemountain

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 02:08

Anyone know anything about a fellow named Norwood who built some P4 replicas? I seem to recall that he manufactured the chassis to roughly original specs and put various Ferrari v12s in the back.

I personally rate the P4 as the sexiest coupe ever made.

#14 Bruce Moxon

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 11:43

Drool

And that 250 GTO behind it!!! Serious blood displacement going on here. :eek:


Bruce Moxon

#15 Macca

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 12:41

If anyone is interested, the yellow Ferrari is a 330P3/4 (alternative designation 412P) from 1967, and its chassis number is 0850. It was built new for the 1967 season and sold to the Belgian Ferrari importer Jacques Swaters' Garage Francorchamps team, which is why it is in the Belgian national racing colour of yellow.

It carried the number 11 in the Daytona 24 Hours in 1967, but was then badly damaged in a crash by Willy Mairesse in the Spa 1000k in the rain and couldn't be repaired for Le Mans. Ferrari therefore loaned Swaters a full works P4 (fuel-injected 36-valve motor instead of 24-valve carburetter) which was chassis number 0856 - which Lawrence Stroll also now owns!

The works P4's were 0846 (undergoing restoration in the USA - see Ferrarichat.com and search under Napolis), 0856, 0858 and 0860. The 'customer P3/4's were 0844 (North American Racing Team), 0848 (Filipinetti team,Switzerland), 0850, and 0854 (Maranello Concessionaires, UK).

0850 was owned for many years by P. Paul Pappalardo of Florida (who also owns a 250GTO and the 250TR which won Le Mans in 1960), and he brought it to the Goodwood Festival of Speed firstly in 1995 IIRC when it was red, and again in 1997 when Ferrari was the featured marque on their 50th anniversary; it was yellow by that time, and 0844 and 0854 were also there that year.

He based it in England for a couple of years and it was raced at Silverstone in the Ferrari-Maserati races at the Coys meeting.

I believe 0854 was the one that was driven regularly on the roads of California in the 1970s, and 0850 had a Florida plate when I saw it.

0856 is the most original and unrestored of the four P4s, still being as it was when last raced by the factory in 1967 at Brands Hatch, so I guess that is why it is so highly valued by collectors. I t very rarely comes up for sale, having had only two owners between 1968 and a couple of years ago.

Hope that long ramble was of interest to someone!

Paul Mackness (TNF badge number 25) - still sunstroked from the Goodwood Festival where he was disappointed that 0844 didn't show, although it was listed in the progamme .

#16 flsp

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 13:24

Thanks for the info Mecca


Originally posted by Bruce Moxon
Drool

And that 250 GTO behind it!!! Serious blood displacement going on here. :eek:


Bruce Moxon


And that's not all, behind the GTO there was a 250 Testa Rossa :love:

#17 cheesy poofs

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 14:10

Originally posted by David M. Kane

It was yellow, I never did clarify if it was a Ferrari of Belgium car.
Cheesy might know. The guy took over the whole lower paddock for himself
and his friend. It was a kinda McNally segregated Paddock thing for those
with $M and above cars.



His friend is actually Bruce McCaw. The same guy who owned the now defunct Pac West Racing Group.


Right you Cheesy, but you forgot about the other race where the GTO hunted
down the SWB 250GT, they were within inches of one another for two or three
laps before the GTO got up the guts to pass.



Yeeah !!! I saw that from the infield. I thought that was pretty cool.


Originally posted by MarkWill


Hi Cheesy Poofs.


:wave: MarkWill.
Did you enjoy it also ?

#18 MarkWill

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 15:48

Hi Cheesy,

Sadly, I wasn't there, but a photographer friend of mine was there last year. If you like I 'll dig up his pictures and e-mail them to you (actually, I wish someone here could post them - they're rather good. Of course, they're all copyright etc., but I for a non-commercial forum he doesn't mind us using his pics. If anyone has the power to post pics, tell me and I'll send them to you for posting)

#19 Frank S

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 17:41

Swore I'd stop buying models. Then, they pulled me back in.

Just by coincidence (that's what they'd like you to believe) my favorite eBay source, 43guy, offered this:

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It was as if my clicker finger was controlled by a power greater than my own . . .


Frank S

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#20 cheesy poofs

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 18:05

........and it looks much better in person :love:

#21 Roger Clark

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 18:06

Originally posted by Macca


It carried the number 11 in the Daytona 24 Hours in 1967,


Wasn't is 33?

#22 Peter Morley

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 19:02

Originally posted by ray b
well the GTO's useto go for up to 13-14 million
I would bet a silver arrow[pre-war GP] would go for MORE


Apparently a V-12 Auto Union was sold for £10.5 million - and that is pounds not dollars, say $15 million.

I was told that someone well known would 'only' pay $10 million for the Mercedes W154 that was around recently, didn't get it since the owners wanted $12.5 million.

I just heard that Testarossas are making $5 million - that was surprising, but the untouched original ('barn find') one that was at Retromobile was apparently insured for $10 million so it has presumably bought up the price of restored cars.
In that case GTOs must be getting close to $10M.

Also Cobra Daytona's seem to be fetching millions (5+?) of dollars.

Seems that a lot of people are moving their money out of the stock exchange into really expensive objects (it isn't just the best cars that are making huge money).

#23 Frank S

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 01:44

The first four of MarkWill's friend's Ferrari Photos.
Ferrari album

Lovely. Thank you.


Frank S

#24 Macca

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 08:58

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Macca


It carried the number 11 in the Daytona 24 Hours in 1967,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Wasn't is 33?



Hello again Roger

Yes, you are right - I was doing that from memory and had a mental aberration! It was 33 at Daytona and 11 at Spa.

That other Ferrari on Mark Wills' friend's photos is interesting too - it is a 512F, which was a 512S modified for 1971 by Mike Parkes for the Filipinetti team for whom he was driving, using a Porsche 917 windscreen which was smaller than the Ferrari one. There is only one genuine original one, though someone unveiled a second one some years ago.

Paul Mackness

#25 Alan Baker

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 20:38

Inevitable, I suppose, that confusion exists as to what is a P4 and what is a 412P. After all everyone these days tries to tell us that a "Ford GT40" won Le Mans in 1967. On that basis, it was a Ferrari 250LM that came second! There were only three genuine P4s and this extreme rarity accounts for the cars value. 0856 is "original" only in the sense that it is in the form in which it was last raced by the works at Brands Hatch in 1967. However, none of the genuine P4s is in the form in which they were built and first raced. All of these cars, chassis 0856, 0858 and 0860, were built as berlinettas. Unfortunately, the last race of the 1967 sports car championship was the BOAC 500 at Brands Hatch and Ferrari needed to compete there in order to win the title. The P4 berlinetta was designed for the wide open spaces of Spa, Monza and Le Mans; Brands Hatch was probably the last venue that this classic road racer was expected to compete at. Ferrari knew from it's experience with the P3 Berlinetta at Nurburgring in 1966 that the close coupled coupe was not a practical proposition on a relatively slow and twisty circuit. The cockpit simply became uninhabitable without long high speed sections to force some air in (and of course, the drivers had to work harder on the twisty circuits). Consequently, the three P4s were expensively converted to open Spyder trim specifically for Brands Hatch (not simply a case of removing the roof). Even in this form, the cockpits got so hot that the side screens were ripped off during the race to try and get more air in. Subsequently, 0858 and 0860 were further butchered into "350 Can Am" trim. The only original open "P4" was 0846 but this car was a converted P3 and had significant differences to the genuine articles, apart from it's lack of a roof. 0846 was, in fact, the only original spyder in the whole P3 and P4 series. The other two P3s which raced in 1966, 0844 and 0848, were berlinettas and remained so when converted to 412P (always known in period as P3/4) trim. 0850 and 0854 were P3 chassis not used in 1966 and which first raced as P3/4s in 1967. Of the whole P3/P4 series, only 412Ps 0848 (ex Filipinetti) and 0850 (ex Ecurie Francorchamps/ENB) have never had their tops chopped off. NART's 0844 was the first Can Am conversion and David Piper decapitated his ex Maranello Concessionaires 0854. To tell a P4 from a P3 conversion, look at the shut line of the rear body panel just ahead of the rear wheel. On the P3, the 412Ps and 0846 it is on the same level as the lower edge of the door. On the three genuine P4s, it is a couple of inches higher.

#26 Todd

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 21:25

Originally posted by Macca
If anyone is interested, the yellow Ferrari is a 330P3/4 (alternative designation 412P) from 1967, and its chassis number is 0850. It was built new for the 1967 season and sold to the Belgian Ferrari importer Jacques Swaters' Garage Francorchamps team, which is why it is in the Belgian national racing colour of yellow.

It carried the number 11 in the Daytona 24 Hours in 1967, but was then badly damaged in a crash by Willy Mairesse in the Spa 1000k in the rain and couldn't be repaired for Le Mans. Ferrari therefore loaned Swaters a full works P4 (fuel-injected 36-valve motor instead of 24-valve carburetter) which was chassis number 0856 - which Lawrence Stroll also now owns!

The works P4's were 0846 (undergoing restoration in the USA - see Ferrarichat.com and search under Napolis), 0856, 0858 and 0860. The 'customer P3/4's were 0844 (North American Racing Team), 0848 (Filipinetti team,Switzerland), 0850, and 0854 (Maranello Concessionaires, UK).

0850 was owned for many years by P. Paul Pappalardo of Florida (who also owns a 250GTO and the 250TR which won Le Mans in 1960), and he brought it to the Goodwood Festival of Speed firstly in 1995 IIRC when it was red, and again in 1997 when Ferrari was the featured marque on their 50th anniversary; it was yellow by that time, and 0844 and 0854 were also there that year.

He based it in England for a couple of years and it was raced at Silverstone in the Ferrari-Maserati races at the Coys meeting.

I believe 0854 was the one that was driven regularly on the roads of California in the 1970s, and 0850 had a Florida plate when I saw it.

0856 is the most original and unrestored of the four P4s, still being as it was when last raced by the factory in 1967 at Brands Hatch, so I guess that is why it is so highly valued by collectors. I t very rarely comes up for sale, having had only two owners between 1968 and a couple of years ago.

Hope that long ramble was of interest to someone!

Paul Mackness (TNF badge number 25) - still sunstroked from the Goodwood Festival where he was disappointed that 0844 didn't show, although it was listed in the progamme .


The November 1970 issue of Motor Trend has a story about the Ferrari P3 imported and driven on the streets of California by Dino Martin, son of Dean Martin. It was purchased from Jacques Swaters, and had been raced by Ecurie Francochamps. The story notes that additional cooling slots had been cut in the body, and the photos with the story show matching cooling slots to those on the car in flsp's photo. The car was painted yellow when Dino had it, with blue painted wheels. He also had the car fitted with indoor-outdoor carpeting and vinyl upholstery, as the interior would take a soaking whenever the car was washed. There were many modifications made to the cooling system to keep the engine from overheating in traffic, and to keep the circulating fluids to the front mounted heat exchangers from overheating the passengers. Anyway, I think that the California road car was chassis 0850, and that it is the one in the photo.

#27 cheesy poofs

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 22:27

That's the same car you see in those pics.
The interior is exactly as you describe it.

#28 lanciaman

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 02:42

Dave and Dean Causey of Indianapolis, CanAm racers of the 60s-70s (they also raced a Birdcage) built at least one P4 replica for B sports racing in SCCA. The car was something like 4/5ths scale and is still raced in vintage events. It is beautiful.

#29 mickj

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 04:45

Lanciaman
The Causey's must have made 2. Checkout www.motorsportboerse.de There is a Causey P3 for sale.

#30 lanciaman

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 04:57

This link didn't quite work, but you will notice I said they built at least one. I watched the bucks being made and it would make sense to build more than one....

#31 dbw

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 06:32

as i mentioned in an earlier post[i think]...ages ago i used to see what appeared to be a p 3/4 parked in a local ferrari repair shop [a bit south of san francisco]...i was impressed.. it looked pretty cool,all alloy,borranis , v 12..etc.....only later did i find out it was a tom meade creation...tommasia 2, made [so i was told] from a widened cooper single seater[!!] with a 250 engine and drogo bodywork..the owner was rumored to live in los gatos calif...anyone know where it is now?

it's easily identified by the use of an alfa coupe rear window as the windshield

#32 Tim Murray

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Posted 17 July 2003 - 09:10

In 1970 Autosport magazine did a feature on the latest Tom Meade creation, the Thomassima Virginia. This was apparently based on the GTO, with an all-alloy body just 40 ins high, plus special Meade-designed Borrani wheels, a 314 bhp V12 and a ZF box. He had orders from California for two of these at $15,000 each. This was the 'latest in a long line of Thomassimas' so may not be the one you saw.

#33 Macca

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 17:16

Alan Baker wrote "Unfortunately, the last race of the 1967 sports car championship was the BOAC 500 at Brands Hatch and Ferrari needed to compete there in order to win the title. "


Alan
Whether it is unfortunate depends on whether one prefers the shape of the Spyder or Belinetta; I prefer the Spyder. The only car still as Scuderia Ferrari raced it AND NOT RESTORED/MODIFIED/REBODIED SUBSEQUENTLY is 0856.

0850 was crashed badly in the USA and when repaired was fitted with a non-genuine windscreen lacking the backward curve at the top; 0844 has now been rebodied as a Berlinetta; 0854 was partly restored after David Piper sold it, getting the proper windscreen and a Spyder aero basket handle and was definitely driven on the road somewhere in the USA; 0846 was built as a Spyder P3 and updated to a Spyder P4 but is now being restored to a Berlinetta which it has never been before; and 0860 had a new body made in France for Bardinon.

Remember that 0846 won Daytona 1967, quite a fast circuit, set the fastest time at the Le Mans test day, and was raced at the Targa Florio; the P4 was designed for all types of circuit and the body style always had to be a compromise.

The other external distinguishing factor for the P3/4's is that they don't have the bellcrank for the pedals like the P4 and so have a 'hump' in the radiator outlet, and also they have a single hump over the inlet trumpets beneath the rear window. I confess I had not noticed the body shut line; this makes 0846 totally unique in having the low shut line, no outlet hump and the "two humps and a row of louvres" rear deck.

Anyway they're all gorgeous, which is why people keep replicating them. Some are better than others, some have ali bodies but flat-12 or V8 engines, and Neil Foreman can build you one with a Ferrari 412 engine - that's where my Lotto money would go!

Paul

#34 Pedro 917

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 20:05

Here's a Ferrari 330 P4 I saw at the Nuerburgring Old Timer GP 2001. It was driven on a parade lap. Most probably a replica.

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And here's a roadrunning Ferrari P4 replica as seen in Spa last year. It had a Ferrari engine so this is probably a Neil Foreman car.

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#35 byrkus

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 21:21

IIRC, the car carrying plate '330 P4 prot' was present at Mobikrog track last year or a year before, when there were 'Ferrari Days'. If memory serves me right, the newspaper said that the car had 4.4 litre V12 engine - which is most probably type 365 engine (as in Daytona). So, in no way an original P4.

#36 lanciaman

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 21:28

Originally posted by byrkus
IIRC, the car carrying plate '330 P4 prot' was present at Mobikrog track last year or a year before, when there were 'Ferrari Days'. If memory serves me right, the newspaper said that the car had 4.4 litre V12 engine - which is most probably type 365 engine (as in Daytona). So, in no way an original P4.


The design nuances of the ersatz racecar make it prettier than the "road car," which has a bit of the Lola coupe look to it...but both are drop dead gorgeous though neither are in my immediate or even long term future.

#37 P4Replica

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Posted 18 July 2004 - 20:44

I apologise for the late replies to your postings, but I have only recently signed up to Atlas F1, and stumbled across this thread just this afternoon.

Originally posted by Pedro 917 (over a year ago !)
Here's a Ferrari 330 P4 I saw at the Nuerburgring Old Timer GP 2001. It was driven on a parade lap. Most probably a replica.

Yes, it is a replica, but it’s owner, Max Theiler from Altendorf, Switzerland (who is also the president of the Ferrari club of Switzerland) prefers to call it a ‘prototype’. Although it carries the plate ‘330 P4 PROT’ the car is not actually road registered and is used just for track days.
The car uses modified Noble P4 fibreglass bodywork (the rear window has been removed, to leave a Spyder ‘basket handle’ and the rear deck area has been re-profiled). The quick way to identify Noble P4 bodywork is that 6” x 8” access hatch (to the master cylinder reservoirs) on the scuttle.

Originally posted by byrkus
IIRC, the car carrying plate '330 P4 prot' was present at Mobikrog track last year or a year before, when there were 'Ferrari Days'. If memory serves me right, the newspaper said that the car had 4.4 litre V12 engine - which is most probably type 365 engine (as in Daytona). So, in no way an original P4.

Max's car is not actually powered by a Daytona (365GTB/4) V-12, but instead, uses the similar 365GTC/4 motor with the 6 side-draught Weber carbs. HERE is a link to another similar car (again using modified Noble P4 bodywork), owned by Jean-Paul Gauban of Lot-et-Garonne, France, which does actually use a Daytona V-12.
Max Theiler’s P4 replica is seen at a quite a few events on the Continent, and he appears to attend the Oldtimer GP at the Nurburgring, every year. HERE in the bottom right hand corner of this group, are a couple of photos from the previous year.

Originally posted by Pedro 917
And here's a roadrunning Ferrari P4 replica as seen in Spa last year. It had a Ferrari engine so this is probably a Neil Foreman car.

This car belongs to Eddie Perk of Ashford, England. This car is actually a Noble, too. I don’t know what made you think it had a Ferrari engine, but in fact it’s powered by the same Renault 25/30 (PRV) V-6, as many other Noble P4’s, including my own. I think I can understand why though. Eddie’s car is quite an accurate replica and is beautifully detailed. The bodywork has also been highly modified: to include lowering the roof-line and widening of the rear wings. The engine has also been dressed-up a little, and the triple-choke Weber carbs are fitted with curved intake trumpets, as on a real P4's engine.
The car is currently offered for sale on Neil Foreman’s website

#38 jj2728

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 00:03

Originally posted by Macca

0846 was built as a Spyder P3 and updated to a Spyder P4 but is now being restored to a Berlinetta which it has never been before


i always thought that the only p3/4 that ran at the 1967 Daytona 24hours was the #26 car, the #23 and 24 cars being all new p4s. i'm referring to my "AUTOMOBILE YEAR" 15 and they state that the rodriguez/guichet car #26 was rebuilt to p4 specifications but with carburators and not fuel injection as per the #23 and #24 cars. Also the book states that FIRESTONE made it fiancially possible for ferrari to go to daytona for a week's test and for this they took a '66 p3 converted to p4 specifications. as an aside i have some wonderful slides taken by my father from the 67 daytona 24 hours and am in the process of having many of them made into prints which i will post at a later date. he spent quite some time with the ferrari team as he was trying to get a contract for drivers' racing gloves.

#39 TFBundy

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 01:44

Originally posted by cheesy poofs
at more or less $USD 10 Milion, this race car is one of the most expensive in the world.

What other race cars are valued at this price ??



Depends whether you're buying or selling!;)

.... My '86 Quest is worth nearly that much

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#40 dbw

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 05:49

no slight interded but there was[is] a noble kit in town built as an all electric!!i've also seen a beck 550 ,a 914,and a rather old tatty couch [seats six abreast..top speed 34 mph]..but hey, this is california....

#41 MKIVJ6

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 14:25

Hi
I'm the person Paul refered to re:0846 which BTW will be on the cover of the Pebble/Monterey Vintage MotorSports and out there in Aug. I looked at the shunt line. I suspect that they raised it to enable the Brake cooling engine air duct to mate better with the tail and to prevent the hi PSI FI plumbing to aviod being being cut when the tail is lowered.
Best

#42 Pedro 917

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 21:27

Here's a picture of a Ferrari P3 coming down from the hill at Goodwood last month. This is supposed to be chassis # 0844, a car driven by Pedro at Daytona (race # 26), Monza (race # 9) and Le Mans 1967 (race # 25, NART white/blue livery). What's the story of this chassis?

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copyright Wilfried Geerts

#43 P4Replica

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 09:16

Originally posted by dbw
no slight interded but there was[is] a noble kit in town built as an all electric!! but hey, this is california.

I'd be interested to hear any more that you could tell me about this one, DBW. I run a registry for Ferrari P4 replicas: http://www.p4replica.com , and there are still quite a few Noble P4 chassis #'s I need to track down. Just a thought, though, - you say "all electric". Are you sure that it could actually move under its own power ? A few years back, Neil Foreman ( http://www.nfauto.co.uk ) built a rolling body/chassis P4 berlinetta for Sony, as a demonstrator for their 'in-car entertainment' systems. This was displayed at car shows all over the world - it's not the same one is it ? That car finally ended up in Australia, and the current owner is planning to 'motorize' it.

#44 P4Replica

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 09:23

Originally posted by Pedro 917
This is supposed to be chassis # 0844, a car driven by Pedro at Daytona (race # 26), Monza (race # 9) and Le Mans 1967 (race # 25, NART white/blue livery). What's the story of this chassis?

A lot more straight-forward than that of the 'alleged #0846' that has recently been 'resurrected' in the USA, Wilfried !
See: http://www.barchetta.../0844.330P3.htm
and: http://www.barchetta.../0846.330P3.htm

#45 Macca

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 10:02

Barchetta can be wrong; the 250P5 didn't use the chassis of 0846.

see here:
http://www.classicsc...s/ferrari2.html

Not all their stuff is right, or up to date, but they are good on some of the convoluted histories and duplicated chassis numbers.




Paul M

#46 P4Replica

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 10:34

Originally posted by Macca
Barchetta can be wrong; the 250P5 didn't use the chassis of #0846

True. But neither did the car that David Piper sold to James Glickenhaus in 2000,
(that is currently being claimed to be the 'resurrected', or should I say 'restored' #0846).

#47 P4Replica

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 11:14

By the way, in case any readers are unfamiliar with the car mentioned above, there are some recent photos of it posted: Here on FerrariChat.
IMHO (although strictly not 100% correct), a glorious reproduction of a Ferrari 330P4 berlinetta.
Probably (in fact, almost certainly) - The BEST P4 replica in the World !

#48 xkssFrankOpalka

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 12:32

I saw the Causeys race their small P car at IRP when I raced there, was new then, nice car

#49 Macca

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 13:43

by P4Replica

The BEST P4 replica in the World !




If it's got a Ferrari P4 engine, and a P3 or P4 gearbox made by Ferrari, and a chassis which may have been made by Ferrari in period or may have been made more recently to Ferrari's drawings, and an alloy body made at any time to P4 specification, maybe even by the original panel-beaters...........I don't think it could be called a replica. The term 'younger sister' has been used for David Piper's car.

If someone commissions somebody else to cast new P4 engines and gearboxes and then builds a car or cars around them.............I think that would be called a reproduction. That question has been raised before about Cameron Millar's Maserati 250Fs.
.
If someone builds a car round, say, a Daytona or 412 engine and a Hewland gearbox, but the chassis and body are authentic modern reproductions from works drawings, I'd call that a replica, and probably 'The Best.....etc.'

A glass fibre body which is neither the correct shape nor the correct size, housing a chassis of a different type, and a Renault V6 or Lamborghini (or even a Ferrari) engine.............semantically, that would be a 'lookalike kitcar'.




The phrase '100% correct' is difficult to justify for cars that are to be used rather than sitting static in a museum; whether the owner fits a rev-counter or steering-wheel that he finds easier to use, or modern safety equipment such as belts or bag-tanks or a roll-hoop does not detract from the historic significance of the car. Out of any given batch of small-production-run racing-cars, there would always have been differences between individual cars, from the fact that bodywork wasn't interchangeable down to the number of rivets - so which one was 100% correct?


Paul M

#50 MKIVJ6

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 13:49

Replica Paul

Stating something as fact:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Macca
Barchetta can be wrong; the 250P5 didn't use the chassis of #0846
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"True. But neither did the car that David Piper sold to James Glickenhaus in 2000, "

when you have not personally examined the forensic evidence that show's that it very well may be and are aware that a claim has been made that it does and that Ferrari S.P.A is aware of this evidence and is in the process of futher investigating this evidence as you have been told several times prior to your making the above statement continues to show a reckless disregard for the truth.