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Dutch driver Guillaume


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#1 Claeys

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Posted 24 July 2003 - 14:17

And now one for the real specialists: in 1931 Eddie Hertzberger drove the 24 hours of Spa-Francorchamps together with another Dutch driver, who raced under the name of 'Guillaume'. According to the reports I found on this race, it should be a well known driver with some experience in international races in Germany and France. Is there anybody who's got an idea?
I thought of Bugatti driver John van Hulzen, but I think he only raced in France and Spain, not in Germany. Another possibility: Herman Vintges. But I can't find any of his results. Who can help me out here?

Thanks!

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#2 Henk

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Posted 26 July 2003 - 19:07

Originally posted by Claeys
And now one for the real specialists: in 1931 Eddie Hertzberger drove the 24 hours of Spa-Francorchamps together with another Dutch driver, who raced under the name of 'Guillaume'.

Claeys, I am not a specialist, but I have doubts about Guillaume’s Dutch nationality.

Eddie Hertzberger usually raced with non-Dutch co-drivers. So probably also in the 1931 Spa-Francorchamps 24-hours. Perhaps you should find out whether either Carl or Paul von Guilleaume accompanied him in this event.

During the 1930s, both German drivers were active in international sports car competition. Carl was notably known for his success with Opel in long-distance reliability trials. Paul became team leader and one of the drivers of Adler’s famous streamlined ‘Rennlimousines’ that were entered in the 24-hours at Spa and Le Mans.

The name Von Guilleaume is frequently misspelled as Von Guillaume.

#3 Claeys

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 10:17

Hi Henk,

Thanks for your reply, your ideas are certainly interesting. Of course the writer of the article in 'De Auto' can be mistaken. But it says:

"Next to... there was a very interesting entry for us [Dutch], the Dutch [drivers] Hertzberger - well known from the KNMV and KNAC events - and "Guillaume" - pseudonym for a fellow countryman with some French and German racing experience - with the Lancia of Hertzberger that was prepared for the race in Holland."

Later, the text mentions the acident that caused Hertzberger and "Guillaume" to withdraw from the race, and describes the two drivers both as Dutch: 'het volhardende en goed rijdende Hollandsche tweemanschap'.


Best wishes,

Claeys

#4 Udo K.

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 21:28

Yes, Henk, I also think it was one of the Guillaume brothers. I would go for Paul von Guillaume, as he was also in the 1936 24 HRS at Spa , where he came 8th in the Adler he shared with Otto Löhr.
The two were also competing in the 1938 Le Mans 24 HRS coming home 8th overall.
To my records Paul von Guillaume was German, but I'm not 100% sure about it.

#5 Henk

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Posted 31 July 2003 - 22:25

Originally posted by Claeys
.....Of course the writer of the article in 'De Auto' can be mistaken. But.....

Claeys - The words of the reporter (who was he?) sound believable and perhaps I’ll have to abandon my Von Guilleaume theory. Yet, it may be wise to get confirmation from Belgian reports of the Spa 24h-hours. Neither Hertzberger nor "Guillaume" is mentioned in the Non Championship Races 1931 listings. But these may be incomplete.

The reference to the KNMV (the Dutch motorcyclists association) is intriguing. I didn’t know that Hertzberger had been active in motorcycle competition. But if "Guillaume" were really a Dutchman, a motorcycle connection would increase the number of potential candidates for the pseudonym. In the 1920s several Dutch motorcyclists had international racing experience. By far the most famous was Hans Herkuleyns, the "Dutch Devil", who after an accident switched to sports car racing.

Originally posted by Udo K.
.....I also think it was one of the Guillaume brothers....

Udo – Is there anything known about pre-1931 international activities of Carl or Paul von Guilleaume? Did they compete in France?

#6 Udo K.

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 10:52

Originally posted by Henk


Udo – Is there anything known about pre-1931 international activities of Carl or Paul von Guilleaume? Did they compete in France?




Sorry, Henk, but I have no info on that.

#7 Vitesse2

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Posted 01 August 2003 - 11:50

Originally posted by Henk

Udo – Is there anything known about pre-1931 international activities of Carl or Paul von Guilleaume? Did they compete in France?


I suspect that even by this time, German drivers might still not have been welcome in France. See the discussion in this thread Henk - it's mainly concerned with happenings post-1945 but does give some information on the situation in the 20s.

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=32280

I'm pretty sure the first German participation in the GP de l'ACF was Caracciola and Merz in 1931, although Caratsch had competed in Monaco GPs before that date. Monaco, of course, was not "France" :rolleyes:

#8 Marc Ceulemans

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 16:47

In the recent thread about H.M. Vintges, I also have asked info about Guillot or Guillaume and I've discovered this thread. Very interesting and with some open questions.

I have 2 ideas.

the first one:

quote:Originally posted by Henk

Udo – Is there anything known about pre-1931 international activities of Carl or Paul von Guilleaume? Did they compete in France?


Yes Paul von Guilleaume took part in the Coupe des Alpes Françaises in 1929, driving a Chevrolet.


the second one:

If "Guillaume" was a pseudonym of a Dutch driver, why not Willem Greeve ? Greeve was a dealer of Italian cars including Lancia and he competed in Germany in 1929 (regularity events). And if you translate the first name Willem, you have Guillaume in French or William (Bill) in English.

#9 Marc Ceulemans

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Posted 01 August 2008 - 18:27

I've a doubt after I've read again some of my notes. A German Souce of that period, the newspaper Frankfurter Zeitung, wrote that Carl von Guilleaume took part in the "International Alpenfahrt". So I think I've mixed the 2 von Guilleaume. Meanwhile, one of them was there.