11 replies to this topic

[DoubleFault]

In my database there are several minor city-to-city races, most held in Germany, with no information besides date and route. Does anybody have more details?


Date Race Winner Car

24.05.1898 Berlin-Potsdam-Berlin ? Humber (tricycle)
27.05.1898 Berlin-Leipzig-Berlin ?

02.04.1899 Dresden-Berlin
14.05.1899 Aachen-Coblenz ?
12.09.1899 Berlin-Barimgartenbruch(?)-Berlin ?
??.??.1899 Nice-Draguignan ?
??.??.1899 Paris-Rambouillet (Louis Renault won in voiturette class)
17.6.1900 Nurnberg-Bamburg-Nurnberg ?
22.7.1900 Strassburg-Kappol-Starssburg ?
29.7.1900 Oberforsthaus Richard Benz Benz 16 hp

16.6.1901 Strassburg-Colmar-Strassburg ?

25.5.1902 Mannheim-Pforzheim-Mannheim ?
31.8.1902 Oberforsthaus Wilhelm Werner Mercedes-Simplex 40 hp

10.5.1903 Mannheim-Baden ?
30.8.1903 Oberforsthaus Willy Poege Mercedes 60 hp

18.7.1904 Oberforsthaus Willy Poege Mercedes-Simplex 60 hp

27.8.1905 Oberforsthaus Fritz Opel Opel 75 hp
??.??.1905 Melbourne-Sydney ?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by DoubleFault
??.??.1905 Melbourne-Sydney ?

Two events, both officially trials:

March, 1905 - Sydney - Melbourne plus Ballarat and back to Melbourne (to decide clear winner)

23 starters. Winner: D L Stevens (12hp Darracq) Time Sydney to Melbourne: 23h 42m

November, 1905 - Melbourne - Sydney plus Medlow Bath and back to Sydney then to Melbourne again to decide the winner.

28 cars, 10 motorcycles competed, 19 cars finished the run to Sydney and six the loop to Medlow Bath and return. The book I have doesn't actually say who won outright, but it does say that Harley Tarrant (Tarrant) 'finished strongly to win the medium car class.'

[Vitesse2]

I'm pretty sure all these will be in Braunbeck's Sport-Lexikon: I've checked the first few and they're there anyway. I don't have time to post the details at the moment though: tonight or tomorrow, perhaps ...

[fines]

I second Richard - let me first get over this heatwave... To go over to the bookshelf and pick up a book - man, that's just way too much action!

[Vitesse2]

Corrections to original in red. I've also inserted some other events from this era which may be of interest - let me know if you need more details.

24.05.1898 Berlin-Potsdam-Berlin ? Humber (tricycle)
54km. At least 15 starters, 13 of which had been exhibited at a Motor Show in Landesausstellungspark earlier the same day. No driver names in results.

1 Humber tricycle (Schaller & Co) 2 hours 8½ minutes
2 Daimler 4-seat phaeton (Allgemeine Motorwagengesellschaft) 2 hours 17½ minutes
3 Clément tricycle 2 hours 26½ minutes
4 Benz 2-seater 2 hours 34½ minutes
5 Benz 4-seater 2 hours 36 minutes
etc?

25-27.05.1898 Berlin-Leipzig-Berlin ?
387km in 3 stages. 9 starters. No driver names given.

1 7 AMG 4-seater [Daimler?] 15 hours 57 minutes 30 seconds
2 1 Hille tricycle (possibly driven by Moritz Hille) 18 hours 8 minutes
No other finishers

02.04.1899 Dresden-Berlin
180km

1 S Kraus (Phébus-Aster) 9 hours 26 minutes
etc?

14.05.1899 Aachen-Coblenz ?
25 entries, 14 starters: 9 tricycles, 5 cars

Tricycles:
1 1 Cudell (Cudell) 5h 10m
2 2 Wahlen (Cudell) 5h 10m 10s
3 9 Weiss (Cudell) 5h 18m
4 7 Enos (Falke) 6h 4m
etc?

Cars:
1 10 Ehrhardt (Eisenach) 7h 16m
2 13 O Schilf (Egg & Egli) 7h 50m
etc?

02.07.99 Tourenfahrt (reliability trial) Frankfurt-Cologne
14.07.99 Mainz-Bingen-Coblenz-Mainz
23.07.99 Innsbruck-Munich

12.09.1899 Berlin-Baumgartenbrueck(?)-Berlin ?
13 starters: 4 cars, 9 motorbikes. 11 finishers. No driver names given.

1 Benz & Co
2 Krauss & Co
3 Fahrzeugfabrik Eisenach
4 Hartzendorf & Lehmann

20.09.99 Berlin-Leipzig

??.??.1899 Nice-Draguignan ? – I'm pretty sure Draguignan was on the route of the Nice-La Castellane race.

??.??.1899 Paris-Rambouillet (Louis Renault won in voiturette class) ??? Sounds too short for any sort of race in France in 1899 – I’d guess either part of an earlier result or maybe a concours d’ elégance?

22.7.1900 Strassburg-Kehl-Dinglingen-Kappol-Rheinau-Boozheim-Strassburg ?
90km. 22 starters in four classes.

Racing cars: Baron de Turckheim (Bollée) 1h28m
Heavy cars: Schutzenberger (Bollée) 2h12m
Light cars: E Kraeutler (Peugeot) 1h44m
Motorcycles: Dublon (Benz) 2h09m

29.7.1900 Oberforsthaus Richard Benz Benz 16 hp
Internationale Bahnrennen, Oberforsthaus, Frankfurt-am-Main
5 races.

Touring tricycles (16km) : Johann Wiesner (Gladbach) 24m05.4s
Voiturettes under 4hp (16km) : C Hess (Kayser) 28m43s
Touring cars under 7hp (16km) : Joseph Goebel (Bergmann) 31m04s
Racing tricycles (24km) : Fritz Kirchheim (Wartburg) 25m23s
Racing cars (48km) : R Benz (Benz) 1h00m38.2s

30.08-01.09.1900 Berlin-Aachen
13.10.1900 Automobilrennen, Trabrennbahn, Berlin
19.10.1900 Dresden-Leipzig

12.5.1901 Mannheim-Pforzheim-Mannheim
165 km

Racing cars: Willy Tischbein (de Dietrich)
Touring cars: Eugen Benz (Benz)
Light cars: Emil Hasemann (Kayser)
3-wheelers: Encke

16.6.1901 Strassburg-Colmar-Strassburg ?
155km – appears from the times given to have been run as some form of handicap race.

25.5.1902 Mannheim-Pforzheim-Mannheim ? – reliability trial.

31.8.1902 Oberforsthaus Wilhelm Werner Mercedes-Simplex 40 hp
Internationale Bahnrennen, Oberforsthaus, Frankfurt-am-Main
5 races.

Motorcycles (4827m) : Rigaux (Antoine 2¼ hp) 4m58¾s
Voiturettes (4827m) : Brauda (Opel Darracq 8hp) 5m54s
Light cars (8045m) Drivers: Willy Poege (Opel Darracq 18hp) 9m57.4s
Light cars (8045m) Gentlemen: Fritz Kirchheim (Eisenach 20hp) 8m16¼s
Large cars (16090m) : Wilhem Werner (Daimler-Mercedes-Simplex 40hp) 14m6s

10.5.1903 Mannheim-Baden ? – reliability trial

30.8.1903 Oberforsthaus Willy Poege Mercedes 60 hp
Internationale Bahnrennen, Oberforsthaus, Frankfurt-am-Main
7 races.

Motorcycles (4827m) : Kinet (Antoine) 4m46s
10hp Light cars, Gentlemen (8045m) : Fritz Opel (Opel) 8m00s
10hp Light cars, Drivers (8045m) : Ugo Ricordi (Opel) 7m42¾s
16hp Light cars, Gentlemen (12872m) : A Teves (Adler) 12m53¼s
16hp Light cars, Drivers (12872m) : Wagner (Opel) 11m09¼s
60hp Heavy cars, Gentlemen (16090m) : Willy Poege (Mercedes) 12m55¼s
60hp Heavy cars, Drivers (16090m) : Béconnais (Opel) 13m32¼s

18.6.1904 Oberforsthaus Willy Poege Mercedes-Simplex 60 hp
Internationale Bahnrennen, Oberforsthaus, Frankfurt-am-Main
5 scratch races, 2 handicaps.

Motorcycles (4827m) : Nikodem (Puch 3¼hp) 4m49s
Light cars (4827m) : Fritz Opel (Opel 11hp) 8m10s
Cars over 600kg up to 24hp (12872m) : Heinrich Opel (Opel 20hp) 11m05s
Touring cars over 1000kg up to 30hp (16090m) : Fritz Opel (Opel 26hp) 15m24s
Cars over 600kg up to 60hp (16090m) : Willy Poege (Mercedes-Simplex 37.7hp) 12m12s

The two handicaps were won by Poege and Paul Henze (Cudell)

27.8.1905 Oberforsthaus Fritz Opel Opel 75 hp
Internationale Bahnrennen, Oberforsthaus, Frankfurt-am-Main
6 scratch races, 1 “Gymkhana”.

Motorcycles up to 5hp (8045m) : W Fincke (Adler 4hp) 6m52¾s
Forsthausrennen, [Gentlemen?] up to 28hp (12872m) : Fritz Opel (Opel 24hp) 9m34s
Berufsfahrerrennen (Professionals) up to 20hp (16090m) : H Wilhelm (Metallurgique 16/20hp) 15m13s
Verlosungsrennen (8045m) : Ch Michel (Opel 18/22hp) 6m11¾s
Rennen der Stadt Frankfurt (12872m) : Heinrich Opel (Opel 30hp) 11m29s
Saalburgrennen (16090m) : Fritz Opel (Opel 75hp) 10m44s

The “Gymkhana” was a club event over 10km – not sure what sort of competition though. I’m also unclear how Verlosungsrennen translates into reality: “drawn by lots race” is the literal translation.

[humphries]

V2

Excellent stuff. Over the years I have dug info out of German libraries but all the newspaper reports have been in Gothic type; too difficult for me to decipher. Magazines tend to be in modern German but the sources were always difficult to locate. Owing to the tremendous efforts of Gerald Rose the French events up to 1908 were very well researched but it then resulted in a lopsided view of motor sport in that era. German and even Italian events became lost in the mists of time. Now it appears that there could be a wind of change.

My concern is to log these forgotten races and integrate them with the French, American and British events.

So, if you could supply entries and full results including retirements for the races like those held at the trotting track in Frankfurt and the racing car classes (large and voiturette) of inter-city events like those starting from Mainz, Berlin, Mannheim and Strassburg, that would be great.

John

[Vitesse2]

Sorry John, but all I have is the info in Braunbeck's, which I obtained only recently and am still learning about.

There's a full entry list for Berlin-Leipzig-Berlin 1898, plus a slightly fuller result than I've given, but it includes cars which retired before the finish, despite which, one won its class! But then it was the only entry ....

For Aachen-Coblenz there is a full list of drivers, but not their cars! Plus the race regulations ....

Mainz-Bingen-Mainz: reasonably full result.

Innsbruck- Munich: full entry list, map of route, result and a picture of de Dietrich at the finish (he won). Brief report, including some retirements.

Berlin-Leipzig: result to 9th place

Berlin-Aachen: map, partial result broken down in classes.

The brief reports continue to the end of 1909. There are also chapters on the Gordon Bennett races, the French GP, the Kaiserpreis, the Herkomer Trials, Prince Henry trials and Semmering. The Kaiserpreis, Herkomer and Prince Henry are particularly detailed!

[humphries]

V2

Come to think about it I now realise your source. I've got some photocopies from my visit to the Mercedes-Benz Museum in Stuttgart, many moons ago. I'll check what I haven't got.

So it will have to be the local archives in the city libraries, Gothic and all, or the mists will return!

Any volunteers!?

John

[DoubleFault]

Vitesse2, Ray Bell, thanks for very valuable information.

I've also inserted some other events from this era which may be of interest - let me know if you need more details.

Vitesse2, any additional details will be appreciated.

[fines]

Originally posted by humphries
V2

Come to think about it I now realise your source. I've got some photocopies from my visit to the Mercedes-Benz Museum in Stuttgart, many moons ago. I'll check what I haven't got.

So it will have to be the local archives in the city libraries, Gothic and all, or the mists will return!

Any volunteers!?

John

John,

I am too busy these days to rummage around libraries all about Germany, but if you have copied those reports already and would send them (or scans of them) to me, I'd be happy to give it a go!

Need my address? PM me!

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by humphries
...Owing to the tremendous efforts of Gerald Rose the French events up to 1908 were very well researched but it then resulted in a lopsided view of motor sport in that era. German and even Italian events became lost in the mists of time. Now it appears that there could be a wind of change...

In my past efforts to sort out those early contests, I had added some German, Belgian and Italian events (those, which I considered to be races) to the list of Grand Prix Winners 1895-1949, which is displayed at http://www.kolumbus....ellman/gpw0.htm . I realized that Gerald Rose had already accounted for all the major races, while the German, Belgian and Italian affairs were peanuts in comparison. Nevertheless, I decided to add those lesser events to include into my list.

There are still many of those very early magazines waiting in the various libraries for you esteemed gentlemen to find the results you are looking for. I just returned from my European excursion, where I nearly died of heat stroke in libraries without air conditioning. Still, it had been a rather successful trip (thanks again Holger), but I restricted myself to magazines of the 20’s and 30’s only, presently my priority years.

[Holger Merten]

Welcome back on TNF, Hans.