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The Cup of Peace and Friendship


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#301 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 21:00

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
Wasn't JJ 01 blue?

yes, deep blue, with a slight metallic touch.
I found a 1986 slide, but the car no longer has this colour.
Last time I heard of it was 1988 when it was driven by Adam Sowa.

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
A very interesting shape of the rear wing - could you please explain what was the reason of making it so complicated? According to the link posted by Andrzej, Jurzak was an aeronautical engineer - he obviously used his experience in this area to design such an unusual structure... :)

He was working in Technical University in Katowice, got a PhD degree here.
I remember that he asked his friends aerodynamic and airplane designers to design a car. They followed their traditional way and designed the car so that it could fly at mere 60 kph. It took a big effort to persuade them to direct the force down!

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev

Andrzej, thank you for the correction, is 'e' pronounced in this name?

Yes, both i and e are pronounced. His name is Hieronim, but it is often abbreviated to Hirek.

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#302 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 05:30

bigears: I have a short article in Czech about the closure of the old Brno circuit in 1986, there is a map and five or six photos - I'll post here a scan of it in the evening, when I'll be at my home PC.

Your pic of two F. Easter single-seaters was obviously taken in 1982 or 1983. One of them is a car of the Polish team (judging by no. 2), and the other seems to be a Czechoslovakian MTX 1-06.

Originally posted by GrzegorzChyla
yes, deep blue, with a slight metallic touch.

Now I recall that I had seen a small coloured photo of the JJ 01 in "Stop" from 1982 or 1983, but there wasn't any caption upon it, so I couldn't identify the car...

He was working in Technical University in Katowice, got a PhD degree here.
I remember that he asked his friends aerodynamic and airplane designers to design a car. They followed their traditional way and designed the car so that it could fly at mere 60 kph. It took a big effort to persuade them to direct the force down!

:lol: :up: !!!

Yes, both i and e are pronounced. His name is Hieronim, but it is often abbreviated to Hirek.

This means that I have to correct my web pages - Kochanski's first name is "Хироним", not "Хиероним" there.

#303 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 14:47

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#304 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 21:12

Here is a small summary of formula cars 'made in Poland'.
It is not complete. I started collecting chassis numbers in 1983 and at that time the oldest car war this 1969 Promot-Rak:
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My list starts at chassis number 30/74, a 1974 Promot, nicknamed 'drake' (male of duck).
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That's one of them. During years they were often modified by their owners. Especially front - I don't think that could be rebuild. Early models had front radiator, later at sides, but I call them one model because cockpit shape is the same. I am not sure if and of them was produced with radiators on sides or that was done by owners.
Last car from this series on my list is 49/77

Next model on my list stars from 51/78 and goes to 70/83.
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On photo is 66/82, driver Jerzy Krotoski.

and final model from 72/85 to 82/86.
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Other cars seen in Polish formula championships during 1980s were:
JJ-01 designed by Jacek Jurzak
one Metalex MTX-102, six MTX 1-03 and three MTX 1-06
one old SEG

There was a very interesting car that was shown just once (not even during official practice) - designed by famous racing driver Marcin Biernacki formula car with Fiat 126p (650 cc) engine.

Hope this helps.
Please note that photos here were chosen to show car shape best, not for their sporting qualities.

The No.2 car shown above is not Polish car (#2 was Józef Kiełbania, who drove Promot 51/78 and since 1984 a Metalex 1-06).
For me this car looks like Vaclav Lim's Avia AE-3.
The second car looks like Metalex 1-06 with revised aeodynamics - as Alexey wrote me there were two such cars, driven by Ondrej Dobrota and Jaroslav Vorel.

Grzegorz Chyla

#305 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 09:51

Great post Grzegorz - you are a most welcome addition to this excellent thread.

Allen

#306 bigears

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 12:45

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
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Thank you very much for this scan. Nice photographs I must say. :)

#307 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 13:05

Grzegorz, your post is really great! :up: This is precisely what I wanted to know :) Here is one more photo of the Promot, driven in the early 80s by Józef Kiełbania:

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It looks like the chassis no. 66/82 on your pic but noticeably differs from it nevertheless. Are both of them of the same type?

bigears: unfortunately I can identify only one photo from my scan, namely the one with F. Easter single-seaters: no. 21 is Avia AE3 and Václav Lím and no. 81 is Ulrich Melkus and SRG MT77.

#308 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 13:26

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
Grzegorz, your post is really great! :up: This is precisely what I wanted to know :) Here is one more photo of the Promot, driven in the early 80s by Józef Kiełbania:

Posted Image

It looks like the chassis no. 66/82 on your pic but noticeably differs from it nevertheless. Are both of them of the same type?


Kiełbania's Promot was 51/78.
Of course - front and rear wings are much different - but they were subject to extensive modifications by owners. Also side air intakes are added... you can se under it original panel with the same shape as 66/62. Engine cover is different - but for me the differences are superficial.

Perhaps technically they were different, but I assume the core is similar enough to call them one version.

Grzegorz

#309 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 13:30

And what engines were these types of Promots equipped with?

#310 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 17:09

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
And what engines were these types of Promots equipped with?

Fortunately for me, at time when I started my list there were only 2 engines to choose from.
First it was Lada / Zhiguli 1300, second Polski Fiat 125 (also 1300).
Fortunately for you Fiat engines were groupped into Formula Polonia class.
Lada engined cars stayed as Formula Easter. There were two races at each meeting of Polish Racing Championship and two titles were given.

I was initially fraightened by the question, but when I looked into my list it turned out that the answer is simple.

1974-1977 Promots are all marked as Formula Polonia, only two (26/76 driven by Lenartowicz in 1983 and later by Pokorski and Pieniążek, and 45/76 driven by Gutmacher in 1984) are marked as Formula Easter, so I assume most had Fiat engines and two Lada.

1978 and 1979 Promots are marked as Formula easter.
1981 and 1982 Promots are marked as Formula Polonia. So is 66/83.
Promots from 67/83 till end of production are marked as Easter.

Grzegorz

#311 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 17:39

One more article has been added to "The Comprehensive Promot Encyclopaedia by Grzegorz Chyla" :clap:

Originally posted by GrzegorzChyla
The second car looks like Metalex 1-06 with revised aeodynamics - as Alexey wrote me there were two such cars, driven by Ondrej Dobrota and Jaroslav Vorel.

I have found a rear view of Vorel's MTX 1-06, and it has very little in common with the rear view of the car on bigears' pic, so I think there was a standard 1-06 there.

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#312 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 30 October 2006 - 08:38

There are three photos I would like to share:

Jacek Jurzak in his JJ-01, Poznań 1983
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Ulli Melkus, Poznań 1986

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Csaba Kesjar, Hungaroring, 1986

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Rest In Peace...

Grzegorz

#313 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 00:01

Andrey, do you have a list of all the The Friendship of Socialist Countries Cup champions?

#314 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 07:06

Here is the list of the winners in the single-seaters class (F. Junior in 1963, F3 in 1964-71, F. Easter in 1972-88, F. Mondial in 1989-90) :

1963 Heinz Melkus			GDR   Melkus 63 Wartburg

1964 Jerzy Jankowski		 POL   Rak Wartburg

1965 Heinz Melkus			GDR   Melkus 65 Wartburg

1966 Heinz Melkus			GDR   Melkus 65 Wartburg

1967 Heinz Melkus			GDR   Melkus 65 Wartburg

1968 Miroslav Fousek		 CZE   Škoda F3

1969 Vladimir Hubáček		CZE   Lotus 41C Cosworth

1970 Vladislav Ondřejík	  CZE   Lotus 41C Cosworth

1971 Klaus-Peter Krause	  GDR   SEG Wartburg

1972 -

1973 Albin Patlejch		  CZE   MTX 1107 Škoda

1974 Karel Jílek			 CZE   MTX 1-02 Škoda

1975 Madis Laiv			  USSR  Estonia 18 Lada

1976 Jiří Červa			  CZE   MTX 1-03 Lada

1977 Karel Jílek			 CZE   MTX 1-03 Lada

1978 Ulrich Melkus		   GDR   SRG MT77 Lada

1979 Václav Lím			  CZE   Avia AE2 Lada

1980 Ulrich Melkus		   GDR   SRG MT77 Lada

1981 Jiří Moskal			 CZE   MTX 1-03 Lada

1982 Jan Veselý			  CZE   RAF 80 Lada

1983 Ulrich Melkus		   GDR   SRG MT77 Lada

1984 Ulrich Melkus		   GDR   SRG MT77 Lada

1985 Ulrich Melkus		   GDR   SRG MT77 Lada

1986 Václav Lím			  CZE   Avia AE3 Lada

1987 Toomas Napa			 USSR  Estonia 21M Lada

1988 Viktor Kozankov		 USSR  Estonia 21.10 Lada

1989 Viktor Kozankov		 USSR  Estonia 21.10 Lada

1990 Alexandr Potekhin	   USSR  Estonia 21.10 Lada

And here are the winners in the touring cars class (1600 cc in 1973-75, 1300 cc in 1976-90) :

1973 Andrzej Wojciechowski   POL   Polski FIAT 125P

1974 Jaroslav Bobek		  CZE   Škoda 120S

1975 Milan Žid			   CZE   Škoda 130RS

1976 Oldřich Brunclík		CZE   Škoda 130RS

1977 Oldřich Brunclík		CZE   Škoda 130RS

1978 Vlastimil Tomášek	   CZE   Škoda 130RS

1979 Vlastimil Tomášek	   CZE   Lada 21011

1980 Miroslav Heřman		 CZE   Lada 21011

1981 Petr Samohýl			CZE   Škoda 120L

1982 Vlastimil Tomášek	   CZE   Lada 21011

1983 Alexey Grigoriev		USSR  Lada 21011

1984 Vlastimil Tomášek	   CZE   Lada 21011

1985 Vlastimil Tomášek	   CZE   Lada 21011

1986 Vlastimil Tomášek	   CZE   Škoda 130L

1987 Petr Bold			   CZE   Lada 2105

1988 Alexey Grigoriev		USSR  Lada 2105

1989 Yury Katsay			 USSR  Lada 2108

1990 Jozef Michl			 CZE   Škoda 136


#315 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 24 December 2006 - 10:48

Great, Alexey :up:

Season's Greetings from Sweden!

#316 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 18:51

Recently I obtained the Group A2 points table of the 1973 CPF. One of its rows contains the results of Józef Kiełbania, who is known as the one of the leading Polish formula drivers of the 60's and 70's. As this is the Group A2 (touring cars) results, this raises doubts: was it really Kiełbania? I couldn't find any evidence of his driving in touring cars at the same time than in single-seaters (as in 1973 he definitely kept driving Promots). Can Andrzej, Grzegorz or someone else confirm (or possibly disprove) this information?

And the second question: according to the aforementioned table, the 8th place in Minsk was taken by a certain Czechoslovakian driver Karel Jilinek - perhaps there is a mistake in the table, and Karel Jílek is meant?

#317 anjakub

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 19:29

Really, it is Kielbania. He took part in the selected rounds of the CPF in category touring car on Polski Fiat 125p.

#318 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 16:11

Here are the results of the 1984 Soviet CPF round. This time there is absolutely no questions: I have managed to find the official race protocols, and the question about the Polish single-seaters – as usual, I didn’t have reliable info - has been solved with the help of Grzegorz Chyla :wave:

Date: June 3, 1984
Venue: Bikernieki, Riga, Latvia
Layout: "circuit of speed" (3662 m)
Distance: 26 laps (95.212 km)


F. Easter
Fastest lap: Ulrich Melkus (1’31.0” = 144.86 km/h)

  1 Ulrich Melkus				GDR	SRG MT77				 40’17.6”

  2 Alexandr Medvedchenko		USSR   Estonia 20			   +6.7”

  3 Jiří Červa				   CZE	MTX 1-06				 +24.7”

  4 Jan Veselý				   CZE	RAF 80				   +25.9”

  5 Csaba Kesjar				 HUN	MTX 1-06				 +59.6”

  6 Jiří Mičanek				 CZE	MTX 1-06				 +1’04.5”

  7 Manfred Günther			  GDR	SRG MT77				 -1 lap

  8 Raimonds Gudrikis			USSR   Estonia 20			   -1 lap

  9 Istvan Tarro				 HUN	MTX 1-06				 -1 lap

 10 Jerzy Mazur				  POL	MTX 1-06				 -1 lap

 11 Laszlo Oroszlan			  HUN	MTX 1-06				 -1 lap

 12 Zoltan Stiller			   HUN	MTX 1-06				 -2 laps

 13 Toomas Napa				  USSR   Estonia 21M			  -2 laps

 14 Józef Kielbania			  POL	MTX 1-06				 -2 laps

 15 Tomasz Jeromin			   POL	Promot 78				-2 laps

 16 Heiner Lindner			   GDR	SRG MT77				 -4 laps

DNF Bernd Casper				 GDR	SRG MT77				 20 laps

DNF Jiří Veselý				  CZE	RAF 80				   17 laps

DNF Viktor Kozankov			  USSR   Estonia 20			   11 laps

DNF Alexandr Ponomarev		   USSR   Estonia 20				8 laps

DNF Edgard Lindgren			  USSR   Estonia-MADI 02		   4 laps

DNF Toivo Asmer				  USSR   Estonia 21M			   2 laps

DNF Ivars Kruminš				USSR   Estonia 20				1 lap
Group A2 - 1300
Fastest lap: Yury Serov (1’41.0” = 130.52 km/h)

  1 Yury Serov				   USSR   Lada 2105				44’40.7”

  2 Yury Katsay				  USSR   Lada 2105				+19.5”

  3 Vlastimil Tomášek			CZE	Lada 21011			   +23.9”

  4 Sergey Dadvani			   USSR   Lada 21011			   +35.5”

  5 Oldřich Vaníček			  CZE	Lada 21011			   +1’20.8”

  6 Nicu Grigoras				ROM	Dacia 1300			   +1’23.5”

  7 Ditmar Isensee			   GDR	Lada 21011			   +1’23.8”

  8 Zdeněk Němec				 CZE	Lada 21011			   +1’38.7”

  9 Petr Samohýl				 CZE	Škoda 120L			   -1 lap

 10 Ivan Ivanov				  BUL	Lada 21011			   -1 lap

 11 Lyubomir Peshev			  BUL	Lada 21011			   -1 lap

 12 Mikhail Gorbachev			USSR   Lada 21011			   -1 lap

 13 Wolfgang Krug				GDR	Lada 21011			   -1 lap

 14 Vladimir Egorov			  USSR   Lada 2105				-1 lap

 15 Georgy Geradzhiev			BUL	Lada 21011			   -2 laps

 NC Andras Gergel				HUN	Lada 21011			   -6 laps

 NC Laszlo Harkany			   HUN	Lada 21011			   -7 laps

 NC Victor Nicoara			   ROM	Dacia 1300			   -8 laps

DNF Alexey Grigoriev			 USSR   Lada 21011			   23 laps

DNF Stefan Jankovic			  ROM	Dacia 1300			   11 laps

DNF Rumen Davidkov			   BUL	Lada 21011				6 laps

DNF Hans-Jürgen Käppler		  GDR	Lada 21011				6 laps

DNF Jaan Tedre				   USSR   Lada 2105				 6 laps

DNF Klaus-Peter Schachtschneider GDR	Lada 21011				1 lap

DNF Georgy Peterneychev		  BUL	Lada 21011				1 lap

DNS Werner Hirschvogel		   ROM	Dacia 1300


#319 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 16:12

1985 Cup of Peace and Friendship round 3
Date: May, 19
Venue: Bikernieki
Circuit length: 3.662 km

F. Easter
Race distance: 26 laps = 95.212 km
Drivers started: 27
Drivers finished: 19

   1  Toomas Napa				  USSR  Estonia 21M		  39’41.79”

   2  Alexandr Ponomarev		   USSR  Estonia 20		   +13”

   3  Jan Veselý				   CZE   RAF 80

   4  Jiří Veselý				  CZE   RAF 80

   5  Jiří Červa				   CZE   MTX 1-07

   6  Alexandr Medvedchenko		USSR  Estonia 20

   7  Csaba Kesjar				 HUN   MTX 1-06

   8  Valdis Jonušis			   USSR  Estonia 21M (?)

   9  Jerzy Mazur				  POL   MTX 1-06

  10  Raimonds Gudrikis			USSR  Estonia 20

  11  Manfred Günther			  GDR   SRG MT77

  12  Stefan Banaszak			  POL   ?

  13  Laszlo Oroszlan			  HUN   MTX 1-06

  14  Jiří Mičánek				 CZE   MTX 1-07

  15  Stamo Iliev				  BUL   MTX 1-03

  16  Wolfgang Wöhner			  GDR   SRG MT77

  17  Mariusz Podkalizki		   POL   ?

  18  Józef Kielbania			  POL   MTX 1-06

  19  Stefan Kazakov			   BUL   MTX 1-03

 DNF  Bernd Kasper				 GDR   SRG MT77

 DNF  Viktor Kozankov			  USSR  Estonia 20

 DNF  Toivo Asmer				  USSR  Estonia 21M

 DNF  Zsoltan Stiller			  HUN   MTX 1-06

 DNF  Raycho Sergiev			   BUL   MTX 1-03

 DNF  Urmas Põld				   USSR  Estonia 21M

 DNF  Ulrich Melkus				GDR   SRG MT77

 DNF  Ivars Kruminš				USSR  Estonia 20
The main unknown thing about this race is, as usual, the machinery of the Polish team. I guess that Mazur and Kielbania, as before, had the MTX 1-06’s. But I have no idea about Banaszak and Podkalizki, as they could drive the Promots both of the old type (indicated “from 51/78 to 70/83” by Grzegorz Chyla) and of the new type (“from 72/85 to 82/86”). BTW, is the spelling “Podkalizki” right?

Secondly, the MTX 1-07. The book about Czechoslovakian single-seaters by Michal Velebný says the 1-07 to be known mostly as the 1-06B. Which of these two indices was more widespead in fact?

Group A2-1300
Race distance: 26 laps = 95.212 km
Drivers started: ?
Drivers finished: 19

   1  Vlastimil Tomášek			CZE   Lada 21011		   44’09.48”

   2  Alexey Grigoriev			 USSR  Lada 21011

   3  Mikhail Tarakanov			USSR  Lada 21011

   4  Klaus-Peter Schachtschneider GDR   Lada 21011

   5  Oldřich Vaníček			  CZE   Lada 21011

   6  Vladimir Krivosheev		  USSR  Lada 2105

   7  Josef Studenič			   CZE   Lada 21011

   8  Georgy Peterneychev		  BUL   Lada 2105

   9  Ditmar Isensee			   GDR   Lada 21011

  10  Lyubomir Peshev			  BUL   Lada 21011

  11  Valentin Antov			   BUL   Lada 21011

  12  Gerhard Hahnel			   GDR   Lada 21011

  13  Hendrik Mandera			  POL   Lada 21011

  14  Georgy Geradzhiev			BUL   Lada 21011

  15  Laszlo Harkany			   HUN   Lada 21011

  16  Petr Samohýl				 CZE   Škoda 130L

  17  Ivan Ivanov				  BUL   Lada 21011

  18  Sieghard Sonntag			 GDR   Lada 2105

  19  Yury Katsay				  USSR  Lada 2105

 DNF  Yury Serov				   USSR  Lada 2105

 DNF  Andras Gergel				HUN   Lada 21011

 DNF  Guntars Judeiks			  USSR  Lada 21011

 DNF  Rolands Duda				 USSR  Lada 21011
I’m not sure that all the drivers taking part in the race are listed here. Can anyone add the missing entries – if there were any?

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#320 anjakub

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 17:31

Mariusz Podkalicki

#321 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 19:39

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
1985 Cup of Peace and Friendship round 3


  12  Stefan Banaszak			  POL   ?

  17  Mariusz Podkalizki		   POL   ?
The main unknown thing about this race is, as usual, the machinery of the Polish team. I guess that Mazur and Kielbania, as before, had the MTX 1-06’s. But I have no idea about Banaszak and Podkalizki, as they could drive the Promots both of the old type (indicated “from 51/78 to 70/83” by Grzegorz Chyla) and of the new type (“from 72/85 to 82/86”). BTW, is the spelling “Podkalizki” right?


'85 batch of Promots appeared on track in 1986.
My full table of car vs year vs driver is at http://www.autosport...wtopic.php?t=20 - a polish language motorsport history forum. I see from it that in 1985 Banaszak used Promot 70/83 and Podkalicki used Promot 38/76. But Promot 76 was Fiat 125 engined, so I doubt it was used in 1985 abroad.

I checked my slides and... found that in 1985 Podkalicki used Promot '78 to '83 series...
I just don't know which. He also might have used MTX 1-03, but according to my notes he used it in 1984. I think I will have to ask him.

Grzegorz Chyła

#322 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 08:04

Grzegorz, your table of the Promots is very impressive - it is a result of long and laborious work, isn't it? Now I won't bother you and Andrzej with my endless who-drove-what questions - at least till I start working at the 1989 season ;)

Andrzej, thank you for the correction! "Podkalizki" has been taken from the German web site by Ray Purucker, which - to put it mildly - is not very accurate in writing drivers' names...

#323 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 20:04

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
1985 Cup of Peace and Friendship round 3 [...]
The main unknown thing about this race is, as usual, the machinery of the Polish team. I guess that Mazur and Kielbania, as before, had the MTX 1-06’s. But I have no idea about Banaszak and Podkalizki, as they could drive the Promots both of the old type (indicated “from 51/78 to 70/83” by Grzegorz Chyla) and of the new type (“from 72/85 to 82/86”). BTW, is the spelling “Podkalizki” right?


Yesterday I went to Poznan for a race for first time in 10 years and found Mariusz Podkalicki there.
He said there were so many cars he drove that he is not sure now.
But he recalls his first starts in National Team and he thinks he was driving a Formula Polonia car.
Formula Polonia is polish version of F/Easter but with Fiat engine - and this Fiat engine had no modifications allowed.

I will keep searching my old photos.

There is other interesting fact.
I met Wojciech Jankowski, son of Jerzy.
Jerzy was in 60's a racing driver, designer of Rak cars (and later Promot-Rak). Rak (crayfish) was his sign and he used a distinctive crayfish emblema.

Nowadays Wojciech is a racing driver, and he has the same crayfish painted on his F3 Reynard.

Grzegorz Chyla

#324 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 17:18

What capacity limit did F. Polonia have? Wasn't it 1500 cc?

#325 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 19:33

I think Formula Polonia was 1500 ccm, but with no engine modifications allowed, and IIRC on narrower tyres. So they were no match for Easters.

Lets see:
1st round of Polish Championship in 1986.
Easter - pole position Jerzy Mazur MTX 1-06 1:51.81
Polonia - pole position Eugeniusz Zarzycki 1:54.66

Actually I thought the difference was bigger...

Grzegorz Chyla

#326 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 14:50

Yes, I know that from time to time Polish team was allowed to drive the 1.5-litre FIAT-powered cars in the CPF. But I'm not sure that this took place in 1985, too. And what could be the reason for driving a slower F. Polonia car at the fast Bikernieki circuit?

#327 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 19:03

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
And what could be the reason for driving a slower F. Polonia car at the fast Bikernieki circuit?


Mariusz said he performed so well in Formula Polonia that he was nominated to National Team. There was a problem that there were no Formula Easter car for him so he was allowed to drive Formula Polonia.

Reason? I remember that he was a really fast young driver. Looking at the time when I followed races in Poland (about 1980-1995) I find it hard to find a driver who showed more talent. I think the reason was to let him gain experience on other tracks and result was not so important.

#328 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 08:25

Does anyone have a map of the temporary circuit on Babice Airfield near Warsaw, where the CPF event was held on June 26, 1966? The airfield itself can be easily found on GoogleEarth - unfortunately that space image gives no info about the layout of the racing circuit...

#329 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 16 September 2007 - 19:35

This might be slighly off-topic, but I feel I have to say this - just a few weeks ago Marko Asmer won British Formula 3 Championship. He is a son of Toivo Asmer - regular member of Soviet Formula Ester team in CPF.

#330 GrzegorzChyla

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 21:20

Looking through my old slides I found two photos of interesting car:

At first photo it looks as a plain Estonia 21:
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but second photo reveals what is underneath:
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I did a quick google search and found a web page http://www.autosovie...sse-formula.htm stating that first monocoque car was Estonia 25.

Alexey, can you comment this?
Those photos were taken in Poznan in 1986.

Grzegorz Chyla

#331 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 22 October 2007 - 04:15

This is Alexandr Ponomarev's Estonia 21M. A standard 21M had a tubular space frame, but Ponomarev's car was strongly modified in Toliatti and got a monocoque chassis instead of it. 1986 was the first racing season of this car. Your second photo is great, I've never seen a pic of this single-seater without the body panels :up:

The first monocoque Estonia designed at TARK was the 24. It also appeared in 1986, driven by Raul Sarap. Three more 24's were built later. And the very first Soviet monocoque single-seater was designed and built in 1984 in Latvia by Indulis Rukuts: http://www.racinghis...Rukuts.jpg.html

#332 ferdi

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 23:08

Schleiz 19..?

51 - Pál Gaál, Hungary
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#333 sat

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 06:46

1977

#334 ferdi

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 08:12

Thanks "sat" !

Photos from Schleiz 1976:

65 - Vladislav Barkovsky BPS-Estonia
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In the background: 69 - Madis Laiv and 70 - Jukk Reintam, both with Estonia 18M
(infos from "sat" and Alexey Rogachev)

62 - Enn Griffel Estonia
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Do you know who was Start no.: 83 Lada 21011, 87, 100 ?

#335 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 08:24

Originally posted by ferdi 62 - Enn Griffel Estonia[/B]

To be more exact, this is the Estonia 19 (http://www.ussr-auto...estonia-19.html), with Enn Griffel in the car and Madis Laiv standing near it.

No. 87 must be Wolfgang Günther (SEG III).

#336 ferdi

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 09:56

Schleiz 1976

87 - Wolfgang Güntehr SEG III
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#337 ferdi

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 10:26

Schleiz 1976

71 - ?
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#338 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 10:46

I'm a bit confused with the latest photo. A German driver in the national F. Easter race, which was also included into the Schleizer Dreieck Rennen?

#339 ferdi

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 10:57

I am a bit confused too...
In the foreground of the No.71 is a Hungarian driver -only his shoulder visible - start No. 100, the decal on his car is the logo of the Hungarian oil-service company "Áfor" , I do not know who he is.....yet

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#340 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 20:28

Then both photos are most likely from the national race - "DDR-Bestenermittlung LK II". If you get a look at the table of results of the 1976 Schleizer Dreieck Rennen (http://www.puru.de/d...assic2.html#r2c), you'll see that there was a Hungarian entry in the aforementioned national race - Sandor Kovacz.

#341 ferdi

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 22:10

Thanks Alexey!
The exact name - Sándor Kovács

#342 ferdi

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 13:24

21 Frigyos Turan HUN SRG MT77
22 Csaba Kesjar HUN MTX 1-06

10 Pal Gaal HUN Lada 21011

14 Andras Gergel HUN Lada 21011

17 Andras Szabo HUN Lada 21011

DNF Imre Gulyas HUN Lada 21011 3 laps

Frigyes Turán
Csaba Kesjár
Pál Gaál
András Gergely
András Szabó
Imre Gulyás

#343 ferdi

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 13:27

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
8 Pal Gaál HUN Lada 21011

25 Laszlo Szebenyi HUN Lada 21011

DNF Andras Nagy HUN Lada 21011 6 laps

Pál Gaál
László Szebényi
András Nagy

#344 ferdi

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 13:31

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
8 Imre Gulyas HUN
9 Pal Gaal HUN

16 Andras Szabo HUN

Imre Gulyás
Pál Gaál
András Szabó

#345 ferdi

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 13:38

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
5 Csaba Kesjar HUN MTX 1-06 +59.6”

9 Istvan Tarro HUN MTX 1-06 -1 lap

11 Laszlo Oroszlan HUN MTX 1-06 -1 lap
12 Zoltan Stiller HUN MTX 1-06 -2 laps

NC Andras Gergel HUN Lada 21011 -6 laps
NC Laszlo Harkany HUN Lada 21011 -7 laps

Csaba Kesjár
István Tarr
László Oroszlán
Zoltán Stiller
András Gergely
László Harkányi

#346 ferdi

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 14:00

Originally posted by humphries
??/??/?? ( Hungarian round )
26/07/64 Sachsenring
22/08/64 Brno
04/10/64 Krakow

5-6th September 1964 Hungary

It was an urban race on public roads in the Western part of the city - Pécs
http://maps.google.c...019312&t=h&z=16

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3rd round of the Hungarian Formula Junior Championship
3rd(?) round of the Formula 3 Peace Cup(Béke Kupa)

1. J. Jankowski PL RAK Wartburg
2. H. Roediger GDR Wartburg
3. S. Seifert GDR Wartburg SEG
4. L. Bielak PL RAK Wartburg
5. W. Sulczewski PL RAK Wartburg
6. Imre Sulyok H Wartburg
7. Ferenc Kiss H Melkus Wartburg
8. Tibor Széles H Melkus Wartburg

Race leader was Melkus up to the 17th lap, he retired with engine problem.
3800m, 25 laps, 12 started, 8 finished

Jankowski with his mechanic
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#347 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 14:15

Thank you, ferdi, I'm completely in the dark about Hungarian :blush: Do all these diacritics mean long vowels?

#348 ferdi

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 14:31

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
Do all these diacritics mean long vowels? [/B]

Not so simple...
Really hard to describe in English :drunk:
For example - " á " - it is something like "aaaaa..." in English, something like the screaming when you have pain, tell in short sound.... :)

#349 David McKinney

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 14:36

OT...
I always try to write names as close as possible to their native style, but it's difficult with some of the Slavic names - I think "Voldemārs Rešetniks" is probably Latvian - that's as "cut and pasted" but the non-western modified letters disappear when I save the name on my computer
(it will be interesting to see if they come here out once I hit the "submit" button)
My western keyboard gives me no option but to leave diacritics off Czechoslovakian names...
And that's without bringing the Russian alphabet into the debate :)

#350 Alexey Rogachev

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 14:48

OT: I've been always interested how Czech alphabet - comprising 42 letters, including diacritically modified - can be placed on a standard keyboard...

OT again: Latvian is not from Slavic but from Baltic lingual group ;)