19 replies to this topic

[Graham Clayton]

Fellow NFer's,
This is a question for those members who are trying to track down ex-competitors from a track that they are researching, such as my Windsor speedway research.

Has anyone ever written to or phoned someone who had the same surname as a driver, in the hope that they may be the ex-driver or related to them? I think in marketing this is called "cold calling". If so, did you have any luck?

I have sent off in the mail today 8 letters to 2 different surnames, trying to locate 2 drivers who competed in the last Windsor meeting, which was held in November 1968. I picked the 2 most unusual surnames, and then did a check of the Sydney telephone book. Rather than ringing them direct, I sent them a letter and a page of the program showing their namesake. It will be interesting to see if I receive any replies

[john medley]

Graham
When a group of us were organizing Australia's first All Historic race meeting at Amaroo Park ( 1976 ) we made contact with the then Minister for Sport and Recreation in NSW to enlist his support. He was L J F ( John ) Barraclough , but we somehow were under the impression he was good 1930s--40s racing driver JA ( John ) Barraclough . We invited him along to the meeting particularly as Guest of Honour ( but didnt tell him why ) , even offered him a race drive if he wanted to. We only realized the truth after it was all over . We were understandably relieved in hindsight that he graciously declined all our invitations

[Doug Nye]

Hah - I was telephoned in great excitement one night in the early 1980s (I think) by a luminary of the VSCC who informed me frantically that Bugatti driver 'Williams' was still alive and running Grover's the greengrocery shop in nearby Godalming. So I telephoned Mr Grover and apologised for the intrusion and asked him very tentatively if the names Chiron and Jean Bugatti perhaps meant anything to him.... ?????

Needless to say the admittedly elderly Mr Grover knew an awful lot about Cox's orange pippins and King Edward potatos but was fresh out of gen on Bugattis, Bugatti people, Monte Carlo, La Baule...etc etc etc.....

DCN

[BRG]

Originally posted by Graham Clayton
Has anyone ever written to or phoned someone who had the same surname as a driver, in the hope that they may be the ex-driver or related to them? I think in marketing this is called "cold calling". If so, did you have any luck?

In a very recent thread http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=59612 Phillipe7 did just that in search of Michel Leclere!

[275 GTB-4]

WARNING: Cold calling may result in hot blushing

Graham, check out this great Australian Website - so good to see people interested in preserving the past for others to enjoy:

http://www.vintagesp....com/index.html

[philippe7]

Originally posted by BRG
In a very recent thread http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=59612 Phillipe7 did just that in search of Michel Leclere!

And it worked out well ! See ( updated) thread in question !

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Graham Clayton
Has anyone ever written to or phoned someone who had the same surname as a driver, in the hope that they may be the ex-driver or related to them? I think in marketing this is called "cold calling". If so, did you have any luck?

I had a rather chastening experience trying to track down Jim Crawford to interview him for my Lotus 72 book. All I knew was his place of birth (a town in Scotland). Well, as anyone in the UK will know, Crawford is a rather popular name in Scotland. Undeterred, I then spent several evenings ringing every Crawford I could find in that town in the hope I could track down either the man himself (perhaps he had returned home) or a relative who would know where he was, unfortunately without any luck

Next I tried to contact Stephen Choularton, for whom Crawford had been a mechanic (and friend) and later they both drove for SDC Racing, Choularton's team in Formula Atlantic. This also drew a blank after phoning up just about every Choularton in the country. :

I then turned to the US, where he'd last been known to race and found out from someone at Mo Nunn Racing that he was 'very ill' in hospital in Florida. Somebody else even came back to me with an address but when I obtained a phone number it was a dud... I also rang all the Crawfords I could find in Florida, with no luck.

This had gone on over a period of probably six months: I have a 'Missing Persons' file and every now and then when I was feeling particularly brave I'd pull out a page of phone numbers and call them

Finally I got a break: I had told someone I knew about my conspicuous lack of success and he came back to me a few months later to say that he had been talking to a well-known historic racing driver who was good mates with Crawford and that I should give him a call. To my eternal regret I let this sit on my desk for several weeks as I had a lot on, so you can imagine my disappointment when I opened up Autosport one Thursday morning to find that Jim had died

However, I am glad to report that the same technique did allow me to track down several other important personalities including one in Australia (thank god for the net!). Mind you, I am still looking for former Lotus designer Martin Waide, last known working as a rocket scientist in California...any takers? Found an address for him but it turned out to be an office and no-one had ever heard of him - that after paying US$ to get a phone number

Moral of the story: persistence does eventually pay off but he who hesitates is lost!

Michael Oliver

[Graham Clayton]

Fellow NFer's,

I thought that I might give you all a progress report on my attempts to find ex-Windsor
speedway competitors using the names in the Sydney phone book.

So far I have located 5 drivers:

a) 3 from the November 10, 1968 meeting
b) a stock-car driver from 1960
c) a speedcar driver from 1959

It is these contacts that keep me sending off letters

The 1960 competitor lives just down the road from me, so I will arrange to
give him a visit.
I got in contact with the 1959 speedcar driver via his son. He was chuffed that
someone would remember his racing career!

The other gratifying thing is that I have received phone calls and emails from people
who are not related to a competitor, but who have wished me well on my research.

If you are thinking of doing this yourself, here are a couple of tips:

a) include in your letter a copy of the front page of the program, and also
include the page that features the driver's name. I highlighted the name
of the competitor as well.
b) send a "professional" covering letter. I printed mine using Word. Clearly state
what you are researching, and who you are trying to find. Also mention in the letter
that you apologise for taking up the person's time if they are not related to
the competitor that you are trying to find.
c) have an up-to-date phone book, or access to an online phone book!

I will post another update in a couple of week's time.

[Graham Clayton]

Fellow NFer's,

I though that I might give you all an update on my "cold calling" letter writing research.
From 1958 to 1968, I have written to approximately 190 odd people who may be the
same person listed in one of my Windsor programs. That adds up to just over 1,500
letters sent out in the mail in the last 4-5 months.

I have located just over 20 odd ex-competitors from this method, covering the full 10 year
period, plus all categories that competed at the speedway during this time. I am planning
on going to talk to some of them, and take my tape recorder, so that I can recall of
their memories.

It has been a long process, but it does get results!

[Ray Bell]

Graham... I'm sorry I never saw this thread when fresh...

I find the phone cheaper, quicker and potentially more successful than writing letters.

You mention that the 1959 driver was chuffed? How do you reckon the 1936 driver I rang expressed himself?

And so do they all... or almost all...

I've done an awful lot of this. One great success was Ken McKinney, who is now (I suppose*...) the sole survivor from the 1928 and 1929 Phillip Island races. Probably 1930, 1931 etc too, but I don't know if there might be a riding mechanic or two still about.

When you think about it, I only know of two others who are still with us from pre-war AGPs, this is an important work. Use the phone, the mail might arrive a day too late...



* I don't know if Bess Dentry is still with us... can anyone confirm or deny?

[Barry Lake]

Last time I inquired about Bessie Dentry (three or four years ago) she was in an old people's home of some sort and unable to remember anything or to converse with anyone. I was asked not to speak to her.

I was fortunate to meet Barney and Bessie in 1978 and came to know them well. Barney helped me enormously on a number of projects, but he is long gone now. A hell of a nice man.

[Jimmy Piget]

A handful of years ago, I was in Montlhéry for the "GP de l'âge d'or" historical semi-races semi-demonstration.
There was here an entrant/driver called George Pitt who, when asked if he was the same who raced a F1 Brabham Climax until 1969, just answered : "I'm afraid not".
Thus, this was a "cold meeting", wasn't it ?

[Richard Neale]

I've had both good and bad experiences with 'Cold Calls'. Trying to find the original owner of my T-72 Cooper I tracked down 5 potential Bernhard Baur's in Switzerland. This came up trumps and the right one responded to my letter and another replied to say it was not he. I bet Market Researchers wish they could get results like that.
On a not so so good note ~ while researching the history of a T-52 which is now in the States a telephone cold call found a previous owners wife who had recently lost her husband ~ It's difficult to know what to say in those circumstances!

[dbw]

well..sort of a "cold meeting".....about 15 years ago i was out on a shakedown ride in a friends T-37 bugatti and we stopped at the student engineering shops at stanford university[i was lecturing there.]..an elderly but still dapper gentleman walked up and said with a slight accent "i watched these cars race"..after regaining our composure we wanted to hear more...it seems as a student in his twenties he watched the bugatti team race at lyon in 1924! he went on to become an engineer and after a successful career in both europe and the united states he retired and taught engineering at stanford...he still lived on campus and as an emeriti he still walked to his office every day and had office hours for doctoral candidates....later i learned he was a member of the SAE and had contributed significantly to the improvement of automotive valve springs..even at an advanced age he was keen on cars and was able to entertain us with stories of his youth and the exitement of seeing the gp bugs race for the first time....Dr.Henry Fuchs...now a man much missed on campus.

[StephenChoularton]

I had a rather chastening experience trying to track down Jim Crawford to interview him for my Lotus 72 book. All I knew was his place of birth (a town in Scotland). Well, as anyone in the UK will know, Crawford is a rather popular name in Scotland. Undeterred, I then spent several evenings ringing every Crawford I could find in that town in the hope I could track down either the man himself (perhaps he had returned home) or a relative who would know where he was, unfortunately without any luck

Next I tried to contact Stephen Choularton, for whom Crawford had been a mechanic (and friend) and later they both drove for SDC Racing, Choularton's team in Formula Atlantic. This also drew a blank after phoning up just about every Choularton in the country. :

I then turned to the US, where he'd last been known to race and found out from someone at Mo Nunn Racing that he was 'very ill' in hospital in Florida. Somebody else even came back to me with an address but when I obtained a phone number it was a dud... I also rang all the Crawfords I could find in Florida, with no luck.

This had gone on over a period of probably six months: I have a 'Missing Persons' file and every now and then when I was feeling particularly brave I'd pull out a page of phone numbers and call them

Finally I got a break: I had told someone I knew about my conspicuous lack of success and he came back to me a few months later to say that he had been talking to a well-known historic racing driver who was good mates with Crawford and that I should give him a call. To my eternal regret I let this sit on my desk for several weeks as I had a lot on, so you can imagine my disappointment when I opened up Autosport one Thursday morning to find that Jim had died

However, I am glad to report that the same technique did allow me to track down several other important personalities including one in Australia (thank god for the net!). Mind you, I am still looking for former Lotus designer Martin Waide, last known working as a rocket scientist in California...any takers? Found an address for him but it turned out to be an office and no-one had ever heard of him - that after paying US$ to get a phone number

Moral of the story: persistence does eventually pay off but he who hesitates is lost!

Michael Oliver

Hi

Don't suppose you are still looking but you would have to look in Sydney, Australia. Came down here in 1993. You can get me on stephen@organicfoodmarkets.com.au if I can be of any help.

Stephen Choularton

[E1pix]

Absolutely, I've done this with many over the years, drivers, old friends, et al.

In the days of the internet, I cannot recall a time I couldn't find someone.

Best in your Search.

[john winfield]

Hi

Don't suppose you are still looking but you would have to look in Sydney, Australia. Came down here in 1993. You can get me on stephen@organicfoodmarkets.com.au if I can be of any help.

Stephen Choularton

Welcome to the forum Stephen; I'm sure Michael Oliver will spot this soon. And if the Atlantic enthusiasts on TNF don't press you for some tales from the tracks, then I'd be surprised!

[Richard Jenkins]

I do occasionally, but only when it's measured with some degree of research behind it - I did it recently for Roberto Ori, but I may have the "wrong" Roberto Ori considering the lack of any sensible reply. Sometimes though, you give it a go and it pays dividends.

[Lee Nicolle]

Fellow NFer's,

I though that I might give you all an update on my "cold calling" letter writing research.
From 1958 to 1968, I have written to approximately 190 odd people who may be the
same person listed in one of my Windsor programs. That adds up to just over 1,500
letters sent out in the mail in the last 4-5 months.

I have located just over 20 odd ex-competitors from this method, covering the full 10 year
period, plus all categories that competed at the speedway during this time. I am planning
on going to talk to some of them, and take my tape recorder, so that I can recall of
their memories.

It has been a long process, but it does get results!

Graham, this may be useless info but try the Vintage Speedway Clubs. People like Brian Linagen and Brian Darby probably have a handle on a lot of these people. Linegan probably has the cars!!And Darby has the pics. 275 has the link above.
Also, if the same surname pops up in modern speedway chances are they are related.I know of fourth and fifth generation drivers. Circuit tends to be the same too.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 01 March 2011 - 06:25.

[ryan86]

I can remember one night staying at my grandparents when it would appear he was the victim of it.

In 1996, the local football teams captain died from carbon monoxide poisoning.

http://en.wikipedia....Norrie_McCathie

As the new began to filter through that evening, my grandad a R(oger) Paton started to get several calls asking if he was the manager of Dunfermline, a R(obert) Paton.