66 replies to this topic

[Pavel Lifintsev]

Originally posted by Kvadrat
Thanks .ru! Where have you been when we discussed this picture at Formula forum?

Vladimir, my archive contains tens of thousand pictures too, like yours one, and they are not structurized...

Originally posted by Kvadrat
I guess where you could see this face. Looks like Lev Shugurov, isn't he?

Definitely he isn't. In 1950 he looked a little younger, don't you find?

[Kvadrat]

Sure! Here is he in mid-60s or later.



***

Two more Alfetta pictures.



Taken from Doug Nye's History of the Grand Prix Car 1945-65. The caption is: "Nino Farina at the wheel of the Alfa Romeo 159 in which he won the first official World Championship in 1950". Although number is 2 I think it's not 1950 British Grand Prix but 1951 Goodwood Trophy.



This picture taken from GPL Goodwood Programme cover. Car looks the same as previous, but unfortunately I don't know Goodwood well and can't say if the grandstand is really Goodwood's.

[Vitesse2]

The lower picture is definitely Goodwood. What makes you think the top one is too? Might be at Woodcote at Goodwood I suppose ....

I'd agree it isn't taken at Silverstone in 1950 though - the grille on the car is noticably different.

[Kvadrat]

Lucas advertising, British looking car... I met this picture in the Internet referring to 1950 British GP, but I didn,t see any similar house on Silverstone pictures.

[Roger Clark]

I am sure that first picture is Goodwood.

[Kvadrat]

Thank you all for replies!

To complete 10 pictures set here are two last x-pics for this thread.



Very small and poor quality picture. 1950 British GP pits before the race?



Jean Behra sitting in Gordini with number 4 in 1952. But there were several races for which Behra entered with this number.

(If thumbnails don't appear click to get full image)

[Vitesse2]

Can't get those to open at all, Vladimir: a mistake in the addresses?

[Kvadrat]

And now?

[Vitesse2]

Yes, now they work. The upper one looks very much like it's the 1950 British GP: AFAIK those driver name boards weren't used in the International Trophy later in the year, but they appear on pits photos I have of the GP.

The Behra picture is either Pau or Reims - only at those two was there a Gordini numbered 8 as well as Behra in #4. My guess would be Pau.

[Pavel Lifintsev]

The first picture (yes, this is really 1950 British GP) in a little better quality:



''The Alfa team cars lined up in front of the temporary pits which were located between Abbey and Woodcote. Only Juan Manuel Fangio's car would fail to finish, the other three taking the first three places.'' (Picture and comments reference: The Klemantaski Collection)

[GIGLEUX]

No, no, no, sorry Richard but at Pau in 1952 the T16 Gordini was affected to Manzon during practise with N.2. Behra had N.4 but with a T15 (4 cylinders).
It is Reims 1952: note the car has not the grille of the front cowling as that week-end was very hot.

[Vitesse2]

You're right of course Jean-Maurice. I was posting in a hurry and checked only the race numbers, not the type numbers!

[Kvadrat]

Thank you all!

So here is the result of x-pics identification.



1. Unidentified Alfetta picture taken probably at historic cars event.

D-Type:

"The car in the photo does not have a blanking plate over the top part of the radiator opening. Every picture I have shows such blanking plates. In the 1951 GP as all the cars ran with blanking pltes. Also it is not Farina in the 1951 race as he had a blanking plate then and a coloured nose.

If it is a period shot I speculate that it might have been practice for their first Silverstone appearance (the 1950 GP I think). When they found the cars were running too cool they fitted the blanking plates.

I think it more likely that you are in suggesting its a historic race as the two figures by the car also have a modern look. The photo also looks as though it has been artificially aged."

m.tanney:

"The clothing of the people around and behind the car has a 1970s look to it - check the white bell-bottoms. The driver appears to have a perspex face mask, like the kind Phil Hill used to wear. For one of Road & Track's anniversary issues (25th or 30th), they had him track test of an Alfetta. My guess is that that was when this photo was taken."

WDH74:

"Also, the first pic, of the Alfa Romeo, is definitely not period. The guy leaning over the cockpit on the right, wearing blue jeans, probably confirms it, as does the guy behind him wearing a backwards baseball cap. Where it was shot, who is in the car, year, etc. I've no idea."

***



2. Fangio and Farina posing during 1951 International Trophy.

Vitesse2:

"Definitely the International Trophy. In "Formula One: unseen archives" there is a picture of Fangio and Farina on page 13, taken within a few minutes of yours Vladimir. Farina's foot is resting on the wheel of a car and he is holding the bag exactly as in the picture above. The location of the picture isn't given, but reference to the one on page 11 shows that Fangio is wearing the same shirt, overall and jacket, while Farina has now discarded his coat: this one is said to be "during a practice at Silverstone in August" 1950."


***


3. Fagioli, Fangio and Farina before the pits at Monza during 1950 Italian Grand Prix.

.ru:

"

Originally posted by .ru

Recently I searched through my archives and... Look at what I have found:



The same persons, the same clothing and the Monza pits doubtless, so this puzzle is solved! But I have another one for you: a man in the glasses behind Fagioli's shoulder. His face seems to be known to me so I guess he is one of the Alfa Romeo team mechanics, but I can't remember his name. Any ideas?

"

***


4. Wimille on Alfa Romeo 308 in 1946 Coupe de la Resistance at Bois de Boulogne.

Adam F:

"Wimille Alfa 308 photo is May 1946 Bois de Boulogne."

***


5. Etancelin on Talbo Lago in 1949 British Grand Prix at Silverstone.

GIGLEUX:

"From position of the bazooka on the hood it is first Etancelin's Lago-Talbot #110008, he raced extensively from 1948 to end of 1950.

This car received five times the N.24:
-ACF 1948
-Albi 1948
-British GP 1949
-Pescara 1950
-Italian GP 1950

From the landscape I have a strong presomption for Silverstone and 1949 British GP!"

Adam F:

"I agree that the Etancelin Talbot Lago is Silverstone 1949 British GP - the position of the numbers matches other photos of this car at that event."

***



6. Alfa Romeo team at pits before 1950 British Grand Prix.

Vitesse2:

"The upper one looks very much like it's the 1950 British GP: AFAIK those driver name boards weren't used in the International Trophy later in the year, but they appear on pits photos I have of the GP."

.ru:

''The Alfa team cars lined up in front of the temporary pits which were located between Abbey and Woodcote. Only Juan Manuel Fangio's car would fail to finish, the other three taking the first three places.'' (Picture and comments reference: The Klemantaski Collection)

***


7. Gerard during 1950 British Grand Prix.

Vitesse2:

"Motor Sport, June 1950, has a picture of Gerard taken at almost the same spot, but from slightly further along the track, looking back. Points of reference include the oil drum in the background! The car looks identical and lighting conditions look very similar, with sharp shadows, as can also be seen in the MRR picture, even though that is very much darker.

I don't have a picture of Gerard in the International Trophy, but the weather that day went from rainy to overcast, via bright sun on a wet track. The pictures I have show that by the time the track was dry, it was overcast, with virtually no shadows. I'd say it's 99% certain it's taken at the British GP.

***



8. Farina during 1951 Goodwood Trophy.

Vitesse2:

"Might be at Woodcote at Goodwood I suppose ....

I'd agree it isn't taken at Silverstone in 1950 though - the grille on the car is noticably different."

Roger Clark:

"I am sure that first picture is Goodwood."

***



9. Farina at the finish of 1951 Goodwood Trophy race.

Vitesse2:

"The lower picture is definitely Goodwood."

***



10. Behra on 1952 Grand Prix de Marne at Reims.

Vitesse2:

"The Behra picture is either Pau or Reims - only at those two was there a Gordini numbered 8 as well as Behra in #4. My guess would be Pau."

GIGLEUX:

"No, no, no, sorry Richard but at Pau in 1952 the T16 Gordini was affected to Manzon during practise with N.2. Behra had N.4 but with a T15 (4 cylinders).
It is Reims 1952: note the car has not the grille of the front cowling as that week-end was very hot."

*****

Sorry if I missed someone's suggestions. Thank you once again. I'll be back soon with new X-Pics.

[Kvadrat]

With a little help of ImageShack™ I can now repost all the X-Pics.


1. Still unidentified


2. Fangio and Farina, 1951 International Trophy


3. Fagioli, Fangio and Farina, 1950 Italian Grand Prix


4. Wimille, 1946 Coupe de la Resistance at Bois de Boulogne.


5. Etencelin, 1949 British Grand Prix


6. Alfa Romeo team, 1950 British Grand Prix.


7. Bob Gerard, 1950 British Grand Prix




8 and 9. Farina, 1951 Goodwood Trophy.


10. Behra, 1952 Grand Prix de Marne

[Kvadrat]

It seems that Part II of the X-Pics series was deleted here at TNF, so I lost all your help not saving the thread on my PC. Please help me again to identify following pictures.

#11

Tony Gaze on Whitney Straight Maserati at a 1952 Goodwood meeting.

#12

Gary Dunham probably at the same meeting in Rover Special.

#13

Ken Wharton in Cromard Cpecial at 1951 September Goodwood meeting. He won 1st Hadicap race and drove in Formula Libre Madgwick Cup race. I don't know if he had the same number for both races.

#17

Ascari with Ferrari 375 and probably BRM on the background. Stand looks like in Reims, but there were no posts opposite to Reims pits.

[Kvadrat]

Originally posted by Kvadrat

1. Still unidentified

I found this picture at this page: http://www.team.net/...ktud/alfa4.html



But I can't open it to see details.

[Kvadrat]

I couldn't open it from the original page, but see it after posting a link in previous page. Here's another picture: