412 replies to this topic

[jvl]

Why is it that alan jones seems to be the forgotten man of the world drivers championship.
The guy had guts and was a great driver but nobody remebers him only the drivers that he raced against (like Rueteman: he didn't win a world title but is still revered).
Maybe if there was more recognition for Alan Jones he would stop talking about himself and that day in montreal in 1980.

[Alfisti]

Alan is still one of Frank's all time favouite drivers because just like the other two... Mansel and JV...Alan is a "hard charger"....you can really see he is charging. IMHO.. this is why Zinardi and HHF never got too much support at Williams.

[Huw Jenjin]

Thats an interesting perspective on Zanardi, Alf, as in CART it was his sheer guts and overtaking that got him to the top of the tree two years running.And a good car.
The problem is that Williams is only a good team when they have good cars, and what they know about driver psychology you could spit on from fifty paces.
The drivers they continuously admired, and did well for them, were so far up themselves they didn't need any help in that direction.
As for AJ, well he is so convinced that he was gods gift to racing teams, why should anyone else worry for him?
i think you could say the same for NM and JV.
This is not an attempt to denigrate their ability, any one who watched the in car shots of JV in Canada 2000 will have no doubts about the guys ability (and confidence).
BTW what happened in Montreal 1980?

[jvl]

Alan Jones secured the world drivers title at montreal, when nelson piquet suffered a mechanical failure.
He likes to talk about every year when the canadian gp comes on.

[Eric McLoughlin]

Jonesy is at the Festival of Speed this week-end driving his championship winning Williams FW07 and thoroughly enjoying it he is too. He said he had always poo poohed historic racing (and racers)but this week-end he's changed his mind. He said it's because he's getting a bit historic now himself.

[William Dale Jr]

With Zanardi in CART, yes his sheer guts and overtaking got him up into the top 10-top 5, but he had the same Reynard as every other Reynard driver. The difference was that he had Mo Nunn, who brought out the best in him. The chemistry between head mechanic and driver seems to be very important, some examples are Zanardi/Nunn, Paul Tracy/Tony Cicale/Steve Challis, Alan Jones/Patrick Head, Colin Chapman/Jim Clark.
About Alan Jones talking about winning the championship, well if you'd clinched the F1 World Drivers Championship at a race circuit, wouldn't you want to remind everyone about it at every opportunity? And what of his days at Lola? Was it just the engine or was it Teddy Meyer or was it Alan's lack of motivation that caused the team to fail dismally?[p][Edited by William Dale Jr on 06-25-2000]

[Ray Bell]

Dare we say it was a result of the package not 'gelling' correctly, thus lowering the motivation. The one time he did seem to go fairly well was at Adelaide, in front of the home crowd, thus indicating to me that perhaps motivation was at the forefront.
But why would he have been there if he had no motivation?
I think he must have recognised that some of the factors around him were just not up to the standard he had seen at Williams, and that the whole thing was going to fail...
After a few years at home he was no longer as in synch with the whole game as he needed to be, either, and he had put on weight that he needed to lose. In fact, I think his weight problem is an overbearing factor in all of this, and while it didn't matter so much for his father, driving the tail off 250Fs and even the earlier Coopers, it has very much become a factor in the tiny packages we call F1 cars today.
As for his constant reference to the day he took his title... look closely, chaps, he hasn't really got much of his life left, has he? Wife gone, racing team gone, those years drifting further into the past... and it's said the wife took the money. Who wouldn't savour the opportunity to lap up a little adulation when they could?
Yes, I do think AJ has been a little left out.. he volunteered his way out after losing a title by virtue of a team mate letting him down.. he should have been a double champion. Perhaps it's the fact that he disappeared from the scene so quickly, tucking himself away in country Victoria, then the Gold Coast, lost from sight of those making the judgements.
As mentioned before, Jenks considered him to be made of the right stuff.[p][Edited by Ray Bell on 06-25-2000]

[Alfisti]

Uncle Bell makes a lot odf sence...... wifey toio the cash so let thre old man remember his glory days.

Aa for Zinardi... whilst he has guts etc etc.. he is a very smooth driver...whilst JV, AJ and NM were a little more on the ragged edge... that's what i meant.

[Huw Jenjin]

Those Beatrice Ford days demand a little more attention i reckon. There was top money, top companies and top talent in the teams.I know Beatrice pulled out quick smart due to a policy change, but how early did that happen?
Does anybody remember that period well/ where the cars slow , unreliable, poor qualifiers or what? Did they ever get good results?
Patrick Tambay was a good honest pedaller, and Jonesy was supposed to be able to sort out a motor car. Teddy Mayer may have been the route of the problem, he was never the easiest of guys to get on with. Who was close to the action then, what is the truth?

[Huw Jenjin]

Another thought. Your comment Alfie would suggest that Williams cars or their management prefered drivers who wrestled with their cars, and drove around problems rather than being unable to drive smoothly through a set up problem.
You may just be right about that.It certainly explains Zanardi's lack of form, and Mansells edge over Patrese, frentzens dislike of the car etc. maybe the only decent Williams was the one Damon Hill and Alain prost drove. Mmmmmmmm.

[Ray Bell]

Remember they only had the Hart engine the first year, and then the Cosworth V6 making its debut in their second year. That's enough to put them at the back of the grid... or middle at best.

[DJS]

I didn't think that Jonsey could fit into his Williams...

As far as I remember, the Haas/Lola never achieved any worthwhile results, though at Adelaide '85 AJ showed that he still had what it takes, running in the points in a car that previously hadn't made it into the top ten.

[MacFan]

I remember seeing a documentary on the Beatrice / Ford effort in 1986. AJ and Tambay were testing the car with the new Ford turbo V6, and were all smiles. At the first race a couple of weeks later they could almost have gone faster if they had got out and pushed! At the time, it was said that the smooth power delivery of the engine was the reason for the positive sentiment after testing - the whole package felt good to drive. However, the reason they were smooth proved to be the lack of about 200bhp compared to the leading engines!

I recall that Ford was a big part of the problem - they didn't seem to understand the commitment required to succeed in the turbo era. They only really got their tiny V6 turbo producing reasonable power towards the end of 1987, when Thierry Boutsen's Benetton led the early stages of the Mexican Grand Prix, only to retire with engine trouble! By then, the turbo only had 2 more races to go before Ford went naturally aspirated for the 1988 season.

I think the whole Beatrice / Lola / Ford debacle is proof that you can't just take a big pot of gold, buy talented drivers & engineers, throw them together and expect to win races. Just ask Craig Pollock....

[William Dale Jr]

I was just reading a book on the 1986 season, and the Lolas were good at Hungary, but that was about it. At that race, Tambay qualified sixth, Jones 10th. Jones was driving well, but on lap 10 had to make a pit stop with brake problems losing two laps and retired later on with a broken transmission. Tambay finished 7th. Tambay qualified in the top 10 at Spa, too. These were probably the team's main highlights for 1986, but I'm sure that many people remember Tambay's roll at Monaco over Martin Brundle going into Mirabeau.
Regarding the power of the engine they both commented that around the Osterreichring, all the corners were flat for them because the chassis was well balanced and the engine short on power...
The book says that Neil Oatley and John Baldwin designed the 1986 car (which was an evolution of the previous one), but I'm sure that I read somewhere else that Adrian Newey had something to do with it.
Is it also true that Carl Haas was trying to get Mario Andretti to drive the car? After all, he drove a Beatrice sponsored Indycar in 1985.
Just out of curiosity MacFan, when and where did you see this doco?

[William Dale Jr]

I just found this interview with Alan at Goodwood. You'll probably need RealPlayer:

http://www.classicdr...dwood/index.htm

[Huw Jenjin]

I saw it,I think it covered just the beginning of the season, and was done years ago for the BBC "Horizon" programme i think, is that right mac?

[MacFan]

Sounds about right Huw - I think it was shown in 1987 or 88

[Falcadore]

I seem to recall Jones grabbed a fourth at the Osterriechring in 1986 in the Lola THL2 Ford. Was that attrition? I can't remeber the specifics of that race, but Jones' record at the Osterrichring rivals any Grand Prix racer who raced there.

[William Dale Jr]

Yes, he did finish fourth and Tambay fifth - don't know how that slipped past me. I think, however, that was a race of attrition because Lola and Ferrari were the only teams to get two cars to the line (both McLarens were classified as finishers, but Rosberg's car died just before the finish and Prost's was very close to). But the Lolas did finish in front of a BMW-powered car at the Osterreichring! Granted, it was an Arrows, but still...

[Rainer Nyberg]

As the Ok Corral car mystery was so swiftly solved, I am taking an another shot with this pic.

Big Al in a Lola back in 1986, I am sure everyone can see, but maybe we have some cornermen out there with an eye for the corners....
Where and when?


Rainer

[William Dale Jr]

Judging from the high red and white curbs, I'd say it could be Spa, Imola, Hungaroring or Estoril. The Foster's logo on the front of Jones's helmet wasn't always there throughout the 1986 season and it wasn't at Imola or Spa, but I'm not sure if it was there at either of the other venues. The logo on the side of Jones's helmet (does anyone know what it is?) was only put on for the second half of the season, but I can't find from when onwards. So that leads me to conclude that the corner could either be Turn 6 at the top of the hill or the second last corner at the Hungaroring, or Turn 12 at Estoril. It could, of course, be somewhere else...[p][Edited by William Dale Jr on 12-03-2000]

[fines]

Rainer, I'm sure you know Big Al's the dad of Li'l Al, and not Jonesy!

Back to the picture, my first guess would be Spa, but Hungaroring and Estoril sound pretty feasible as well. Surely not Imola, they had Marlboro ads on the kerbs, hadn't they?

[Rainer Nyberg]

Yes Michael, Al sr sure is Big Al...but Jonesy was also Big in many ways even during his heydays....and I guess he is even bigger these days....

Thanks for educated guesses, let´s see if we can agree to some conclusion at some stage....

Rainer

[Jorge Felix]

Rayner

I found one black & white picture with Senna
driving the Lotus... and looks like the same
place. I have it at the Hungary GP. Also, the
picture I have, with less quality, show me more
background, and there is a guy with a white hat.
The picture you are trying to identify have too
someone in the background with a white hat, you
can see it behind the Jones's helmet. Both are very
simliar...
I have not scanned yet this picture... but I
will do it soon and send a copy to you.

[Rainer Nyberg]

Thanks Jorge;

Nice to see you here btw....!
It looks like we are on they way to the solution...!

Rainer

[Marcel Schot]

Can't be Spa I think. See http://www.forix.com...86/05015_RN.JPG , no sponsorship decal above the visor (if that's any proof)

No Imola either, for lack of Ford logo (http://www.forix.com...03016_sibo_.jpg)

No Oesterreichring because there the kerbs are green/white
No Monaco or Detroit for obvious reasons
No Jacarepagua because there they had a Beatrice logo on the hood instead of a Ford one.

This leaves Jerez, Montreal, Paul Ricard, Brands Hatch, Hockenheim, Hungaroring, Monza, Estoril, Mexico City, Adelaide.

Exit Jerez (blue/white kerbs), exit Brands (yellow/red kerbs), exit Hockenheim (blue/white kerbs), exit Mexico City (red/white/green kerbs), exit Adelaide (blue/white kerbs).

Leaves Montreal, Paul Ricard, Hungaroring, Estoril.

Based on this I'd say either Hungaroring or Montreal

[david_martin]

It looks like a higher downforce setup - that Lola had rear wing where additional elements were added to the bottom of the wing assembly. It is present in that shot.

The armco and curb coloring would suggest Monza, Spa, or the Hungaroring. The setup knocks out Monza. To my eye the light and "feel" seems more likely to be Belgium in May than Hungary in mid-August, which is always terribly hot, dry and dusty (and 1986 was no exception).

But then, again, what do I know

[William Dale Jr]

Marcel, Montreal can be knocked out because although it had red and white kerbs, the white parts had Labatt's written in red on them and apart from that, I don't think the kerbs at Montreal are that high. Paul Ricard can go too because it had red, white, blue and yellow kerbs.

Something I just spotted are the NACA ducts just ahead of the cockpit. The earliest photo of Jones's car that I can find with the ducts on it is at the Osterreichring, but the latest photo I can find of the car without ducts is from Montreal. That's a grey area of 5 races.

Another thing I noticed. I have a close up shot of his helmet at Hockenheim. The device that attaches the visor to the helmet and allows it to pivot up and down (I don't know the name of it, does anyone?) is red coloured. The said part on AJ's helmet in this shot appears to be black.

This should've been part of an 8W, that would've stuffed 'em right up [p][Edited by William Dale Jr on 12-04-2000]

[Ray Bell]

They ran that rear wing with the smaller Ford logos in the German GP, where there are chicanes...[p][Edited by Ray Bell on 12-06-2000]

[jmcgavin]

I'm sure that its from Hungary that year, firstly the colouring of the curbs, 2nd there are other shots taken from the same vantage point that I have in my review of 86.

[Marcel Schot]

William, based on some pics of Paul Ricard, I was inclined to think the same about the kerbs there, but I've also seen pics from what I believe is around the pitentry or exit, where the kerbs are plain blue and white. On the other hand, I know no place on Paul Ricard where a guardrail exists with closeby trees. It could very well be Hungaroring in the bend after the first slow chicane on the back of the track. The trees are dense enough there and the hills on the other side high enough to prevent to August sunshine from making this a too suny picture.

[William Dale Jr]

I can now rule out the Hungaroring In the October 2000 edition of MotorSport, Nigel Roebuck talks about the rivalry between Nigel Mansell and Nelson Piquet. Specifically about the 1986 Hungarian GP, where the rivalry went beyond the point of no return. One of the pictures included in the article is from during the race, with Senna followed by Piquet, Mansell, Tambay, Prost and Jones. The two rear wings of the Lolas have a pair of Ford decals that span the top two elements of the rear wing, whereas the picture in question shows AJ's rear wing having decals on only the uppermost wing element. This leads me to think that the picture is from Estoril, the second last corner IMHO.

Of course, I could be mistaken....

[Louis Mr. F1]

i was reading an article about Alan Jones' career and was interested in knowing more about him. (when i started following F1, Jones was already driving for the Beatrice Force F1 team)

he said he was taken away 1 victory because of Balestre's iron fist tactics, JMB declared the 1980 Spanish race null and void as a result of his dispute with the British teams. Jones was very upset that after he won the French gp two weeks later (ahead of the French Ligier cars), he did the slowest parade lap in history and with a huge Union Jack hanging out of the cockpit and he didn't go up to the podium to recieve the trophy while JMB was there"

how was the reaction of his behaviour, both from the media and the race fans? Did Frank Williams try to smooth the matter?

another question is, Jones retired mainly because of his wife, Beverly's homesickness. But then he returned in 1985 and in the article, it says he now has his 2nd wife. So did they separate or something else happened? Without the early retirement, could he have won another WC?

thanks for educating me on a bit of F1 history.

[FEV]

Hi Louis,

I might be wrong, but I can clearly remember Alan Jones on that
French GP podium at le Castellet. And I don't think that anyone
else than JMB could have given the trophies to the winners.
What I am sure of is that Alan Jones and french people always
had a conflictual relationship. I don't know what was the origin
of it. Anyway, I guess the French GP episode was just one more
little battle of the FOCA-FISA conflict. And it would be surprising
that Frank Williams (clearly a FOCA member) did anything to
smooth things down.

If Alan Jones had stayed at Williams in 1982 I believe he would
have had as many chances to be WC has Rosberg had at the
beginning of the year. But on the other side his first and short
come back in F1 (Long Beach 1983 at Arrows) was quite a
disaster. Before coming back for good at the end of 1985, he did
a one-off race in CART to replace the injured Mario Andretti at
Elklhart Lake and finished on the podium. So speed was still
there... Maybe F1 had changed too much for him in those few
years.

FEV

[Timekeeper]

Louis, Alan Jones is still very popular here in Australia as our last World Champion and is reguarly seen here on TV as one of the hosts of the Grand Prix telecasts.

He was ecstatic after the French GP win, beating the French on their own turf was what he liked more than anything. It was Germany 1980 when Jonesy refused to take the podium. He was leading till late in the race when he had a puncture. He ended up finishing 3rd. Laffite won and as JMB was on the podium Jonesy refused to be there. This was because he blamed him for having taken away his Spanish GP win.

I've heard people say that Jones victory lap at Ricard with the flag was the first time someone had done this in F1, which probably means it isn't true. It was certainly done many times after this by Senna and Hill did it after the 1994 British GP. Our 500cc motor cycle Champions Wayne Gardner and Mick Doohan also made a habit of it.

In terms of 1982, I think it quite likely he would have won again, but I am biased as an Aussie and an AJ fan. He nearly did come back in 82 but in a Ferrari not a Williams. They asked him to drive at Monza but turned them down and Andretti drove instead and put it on pole. I've heard him say he regrets not taking that drive.

I don't know about him retiring because of his wife's home sickness. Things I've read indicate that it was his own homesickness and his hatred of the suspensionless cars of the era.

He does have a new partner and has recently become a dad again at age 54, to twins!

[lotus]

Loui MR F1,
Also in his motorsport carreer, in the twilight, Jonesy raced in Australia's top catorgorie, touring cars, and was a contracted driver to a top team. He also ran his own team in the catorgorie.

[Gil Bouffard]

To get a better insight to AJ, find and buy a copy of "ALAN JONES, DRIVING AMBITION." (1981) Alan Jones and Keith Botsford.

I was at the Hockenheimring in 1980 and remember his not being present on the winner's rostrum. I was shooting over at the Sachs Kurve and moved to the trophy area for the finish..

Hockenheim was my backyard. I could walk there, and did quite often.

Gil

[Don Capps]

Interesting that two of my favorite Characters are called 'AJ' -- A.J. Foyt and Alan Jones. Both delighted me to no end during their driving careers with their ability to just say out loud what perhaps a few were thinking....

[david_martin]

Absolutely, Don. Patrick Head and Alan Jones together must be one of the straightest talking combinations ever seen in the F1 paddock. Suprising that two such strong and forthright characters had a constructive and successful working relationship.

[BRG]

I never warmed to Alan Jones very much - altogether too full of himself, and too much of the good ol' Aussie boy against the effete foreigners. But he did teach Williams to build their cars good and strong, so that even Rosberg and Mansell couldn't break them!

[Louis Mr. F1]

thanks for the info!

but were you guys sad to see him return in 85, 86 and was only a mid fielder?
i think 1 better race was the 86 Hungarian gp, where the two Lola finished 4 and 5th.

[Postnoff]

Hi!
Is there any good biographical sites on Alan Jones? I couldn't find any of them.
Dear friends if you have any biographical materials about 1980 World champion could you please post it in this thread or send me via e-mail?

Best regards
Igor

postnoff@mail.ru

[mikedeering]

Originally posted by Louis Mr. F1
thanks for the info!

but were you guys sad to see him return in 85, 86 and was only a mid fielder?
i think 1 better race was the 86 Hungarian gp, where the two Lola finished 4 and 5th.

It was Austria 1986 where the Lolas finished 4th and 5th - Jones leading Tambay home. Mind you, they were 2 laps down on the winner!

[ensign14]

APOLOY IN ADVANCE FOR GERMANS!

Jones commentated on the Aussie GP one year for the BBC with Murray Walker. At one point Schumacher M was stalking Alesi and Walker mused aloud "And I wonder what is going through Alesi's mind now?"

AJ: 'I'll tell you what, he's thinking, 'you're not getting past me, you arrogant little Kraut.'''

Funnily enough, that little remark was not in the highlights later...

The one thing that gets me is that AJ had the reputation of criticizing everyojne else for moaning, but did more than his fair share after Reutemann beat him at Rio 81

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Postnoff
Is there any good biographical sites on Alan Jones? I couldn't find any of them.
Dear friends if you have any biographical materials about 1980 World champion could you please post it in this thread ...

Don't know about biographical sites, but this is biographical stuff that can't be ignored:







The point being that the Jones ways came from a father who could bust bricks on his head... that truck in the bottom pic has the engine of a captured German Scout Car (kraut?), Studebaker front suspension and a limited slip diff out of a real truck, circa 1926. The Lago is piloted by one of the best, Doug Whiteford, and in this race it was Jones who won.

[Maldwyn]

Originally posted by Louis Mr. F1
he returned in 1985

Not quite. His first attempt at a comeback was with Arrows in 1983. Their A6 was reasonably competitive but under-funded and Jones rejoined his old friends from Shadow days to see if he still had the taste for racing. There was talk of he & the team attempting to raise sponsorship to make the arrangement more permanent but nothing came of it.



Jones entered the US West GP at Long Beach (the race that Watson won from 22nd on the grid) and qualified 12th, ahead of his team-mate Marc Surer, but retired from the race. He also competed in the Race of Champions at Brands Hatch for Arrows, two weeks after Long Beach.

[Jeroen Brink]

Originally posted by david_martin
Absolutely, Don. Patrick Head and Alan Jones together must be one of the straightest talking combinations ever seen in the F1 paddock. Suprising that two such strong and forthright characters had a constructive and successful working relationship.

Indeed. Such as how Jones answered to a very selfimportant Mark Thatcher after a race in the U.S.
Q. How important were the tyres in the race?
A. They prevented the wheels from hitting the ground!

[Falcadore]

From what I have been told and read, AJ's divorce from his first wife was not a happy one. His second marriage is very recent with his twins having being born this year. His other now adult son, Christian, was adopted IIRC. Not a bad racer either Christian, but not a great one. Maybe there is something to genetics over environment.

AJ came up through the ranks in Europe as the drivers of the era did. AJ did in a similar style to what Mansell was to do years later. Whilst AJ had been born to privelege his father Stan did come across rocky ground. Alan and Beverley sold caravans to fund the racing while in Europe. He spent his early days in Formula One racing for ex-world champions who were rather fond of jumping into their cars and belittleing their paid drivers, or so I recall from 'Driving Ambition'. Aj's stays at both Surtees and Hill teams wer not long, but long enough to be notice by the Shadow team. Two seasons with them brought the team their only win at the Oesterrichring, a circuit that would proove to be ahappy hunting ground for AJ, indeed on record would become one of the circuits greatest exponents.

A move to Williams saw the forging of the Williams-Head-Jones partnership that forged a new team to greatness much in the same way Chapman & Clark did. The FW06 was a neat little car which brought AJ some decent results in '78. The FW07 intoduced midway through '79 would become the pinacle car of the ground effects era, and Jones used it to great effect, smashing the world along the way. Very late in the '81 season Jones retired and returned to Australia to start a farm, and also to start an on-off affair with the Australian racing scene. He won the Australia GT Championship driving a Porsche in 1982. He also formed a strange two car Mazda RX7/Ford Falcon team with Bob Morris and the unrelated Barry Jones. That team eventually went belly up. Jones briefly returned to Formula One in early '83 but the money was tight, and Jones himself was not in condition, even to the point of racing Long Beach with a broken leg.

1984 saw him race a Holden Commodore to a close finish in the Bathurst 1000. Jones then joined his old Porsche team mate from 1982, Colin Bond, in the factory Alfa Romeo touring car team. But then the dollars and the glamour of Formula One came calling , and he joined the Beatrice Lola-Hart team. The Hart turbo was fairly dreadful and results were not readily forthcoming. In 1986 the car received the new Ford Cosworth turbo, which was considerably better and the car slowly moved up the field. AJ's drives at Adelaide in '85 & '86 were brief joys to behold.

Aj gradually returned to Australian racing. First racing with Colin Bond again in his Ford Sierra team, finishing third at Bathurst in '88. He then joined fellow Gold Coaster Tony Longhurst in his Frank Gardner run team full time. In 89 & 90 running Sierras he has very rapid but unreliable. The switch to BMW M3 Evolutions in 1991 brought reliability at the cost of speed, although 4th in the Australian Touring Car Championship did result. In late 1992 he joined Glenn Seton's team and for the '93 & '94 season was a regular race winner if the blue Ford Falcons. At the end of the '95 season AJ split with Seton, took Seton's sponsor and set up a new team with the Dick Johnsons engineers, Ross & Jimmy Stone. eventually AJ sold his stake in the team in late '97 and his ambitions Australian Motor Sport Academy development race team of four Formula Fords also folded. Jones returned to Longhurst's squad in '98. That would be his last full time drive.

the past three years he's been a part time co-driver for Paul Little Racing, co-driving the longer races in Anthony Tratt's Ford Falcon. In 1999 and again right now a two car Holden Commodore team has been close to forming, but in 1999 the money wasn't there and now a scandal has broken out with Andrew haberfeld, the man fronting the team.

At 54 does AJ have a future racing? It's hard to tell after three years on the sidelines. Watch this space.

I'd write more but a storm is moving in....

In

[Ray Bell]

Didn't know his birthday was so late in the year... he was born in 1946, wasn't he?

'Stealing' is a heavy word to use for his contriving to get some sponsorship from the cigarette company that Seton had in train... this happened in the wake of a court or Government ruling that cigarette sponsorships would no longer be allowed and that only existing contracts could run their term.

Jonesy (or someone, probably the cigarette company) came up with a way to paint the car the company colours and not use the brand name on it...

I would say it was more likely that the powers that be in the cigarette company thought an ex-world champ was better value than the son of a Bathurst winner...

Now, to address the "born to privelege" line... hardly fair.

Stan Jones, like many in the motor trade in the fifties, made a lot of money because he was a Holden dealer. The car was introduced and quickly captured over half the market, it was a licence to print money... Bill Patterson made a fortune doing it, Bib Stillwell, Laurie Sutton and others...

But Stan spent it as quickly as he made it. This is basically why they went to England... as far back as 1963 there was a sell-up of one of the Jones businesses in which a Cooper Climax had to be retrieved from a suburban backyard after the auction... and it had gone cheaply, too.

Alan was 16 or 17 then, and he would have seen the impact. Stan's later life in England was a self-enforced exile to avoid the worst of the financial stresses, and he died a fairly young man about 1973. The 'rocky ground' would have covered all but about a decade of his life...

[irvine99]

Anybody knows what Jones is doing these days? Racing?

Thanks.

irvine99