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The other Jaques Villeneuve


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#1 ian senior

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 10:01

Brother of Gilles, not the brat of the same name we know and "love" today. Did he ever get close to racing an F1 car? Honestly can't remember, hence the question.

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#2 Vitesse2

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 10:38

Three DNQs - Canada and Caesars Palace 1981 with Arrows, Canada 1983 with a RAM March.

#3 gdecarli

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Posted 10 October 2003 - 23:37

At end of 1983 season there were some rumors about a new team owned and paid by Walter Wolf. Team Manager should have been Jean Pierre Jabouille, drivers Jacques Villeneuve and (in case of two cars) Philippe Streiff or some other French or Canadian driver. Renault should have given its turbo engine. This team could have named after Gilles Villeneuve, but I don't know if there is any relationship between this one and team that Gilles was going to create before his death.
More news should have known "10 days after European 1983 GP", but I had never had any more info.

Ciao,
Guido

[Source: Autosprint 35/1983, page 11 (Dutch GP report) and Autosprint 39/1983, page 9 (European GP report)]

#4 arcsine

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 08:47

Jacques Villeneuve Sr raced in CART/Indycar in the mid-1980s after his brief flirtation with F1. He won one race in that series; in 1995 at Road America/Elkhart Lake. (result)

#5 gdecarli

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 09:52

Thanks, but of course it was 1985... :) (as you link correctly states!)

Ciao,
Guido

#6 arcsine

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Posted 11 October 2003 - 17:56

oops, typo :blush: ;)

#7 gdecarli

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 00:16

While looking for something else, I discovered (on Autosprint 49/1985 page 24) that at end of 1985 Cesare Gariboldi offered Jacques Villeneuve Sr. his only F.3000 March for the next 1986 championship.
I don't know why they didn't reach an agreement, but don't forget that that car allowed Ivan Capelli to win 1986 championship...

Ciao,
Guido

#8 m.tanney

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Posted 12 October 2003 - 18:53

  Uncle Jacques had one appearence in an F3000 car. He DNQed at Spa in 1987. In Indycars, he showed flashes of speed, but was inconsistent and wrecked a lot of cars. While Gilles bent his share of cars, he was always forgiven on account of his immese talent. Jacques was nowhere near as talented. A look at his CART record shows flashes of speed, inconsistancy, and a lot of broken cars. In 36 races (3 DNQs) he had 1 pole, 14 top tens, one win, and one other podium (a 3rd). He retired from 9 races due to contact/bodywork damage. Like Gilles, he managed to avoid injury but, IIRC, he was involved in at least one collision in which another driver was injured. It would seem that the benefits of employing him did not outweigh the costs. After his Canadian sponsors pulled out, he could not find a steady ride.
  With two Atlantic championships and a Can-Am title, Jacques the Elder was not without talent. He is also the most successful rider in the history of snowmobile racing - a sport that requires a tremendous level of testicular fortitude. I just don't think he'd have been a success in either F1 or F3000 (remember, he was 32 at the start of the '86 season).
  As for the Wolf-Renault team, the whole thing seems highly unlikely. At the end of the 1983 season, Walter Wolf had to bow out of his commitment to sponsor the Canadian Formula Ford 2000 series - some kind of a financial setback, I think. I doubt that he'd have had the money for a new team, or that Renault would have entrusted its engines to such a team - especially with a driver who had never qualified for an F1 race. If it had worked out, the second driver would have had to be a Frenchman - there were no other Canadians.

#9 Ralliart

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Posted 19 October 2003 - 02:34

The questions I'd like to see answered re: Jacques Villeneuve (who told his brother he was faster, reportedly) are: what was his background? Did he, too, race ski mobiles? What were his goals? Who was his manager(s)? For one who claimed to be so quick, why did he seem to flounder in his career? Was he as serious about racing as his brother?

#10 WGD706

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Posted 19 October 2003 - 20:22

Originally posted by Ralliart
The questions I'd like to see answered re: Jacques Villeneuve (who told his brother he was faster, reportedly) are: what was his background? Did he, too, race ski mobiles? What were his goals? Who was his manager(s)? For one who claimed to be so quick, why did he seem to flounder in his career? Was he as serious about racing as his brother?


F1 Rejects has a brief summary of his career from 1976 to 2001 at
http://f1rejects.cro...ers/villeneuve/

while his biography is at
http://f1rejects.cro.../biography.html

#11 Viss1

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Posted 20 October 2003 - 16:16

More info here

#12 cheesy poofs

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 15:13

Villeneuve is in critical condition in a Sherbrooke, Quebec hospital after being involved in a snowmobile racing crash in Valcourt.

The 59 year old has serious injuries to his legs and possible perforated lungs when he was struck by another competitor as they fought for a position on the race track.

#13 Marc Sproule

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 18:29

Sorry to hear this. I hope he has a full recovery.

Although I had met him earlier, I didn't get to know him until he moved into the Atlantic series. Although he was always very quick it had to be very difficult to live in the shadow of a legend such as Gilles.

I have a few pics of him on flickr and will eventually have many more. Here are a few with the first one being probably a major rarity, he Gilles on track together at Montreal in '81.....

http://www.flickr.co...157624008130538

http://www.flickr.co...57624008130538/

http://www.flickr.co...57624008130538/

http://www.flickr.co...157623186773769

And one in a 2 liter Osella Can Am car....

http://www.flickr.co...157623311345506

#14 E1pix

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 20:04

Villeneuve is in critical condition in a Sherbrooke, Quebec hospital after being involved in a snowmobile racing crash in Valcourt.

The 59 year old has serious injuries to his legs and possible perforated lungs when he was struck by another competitor as they fought for a position on the race track.

Oh, that's not good to hear!

Get Better, Dammit!

#15 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 20:43

Villeneuve is in critical condition in a Sherbrooke, Quebec hospital after being involved in a snowmobile racing crash in Valcourt.

The 59 year old has serious injuries to his legs and possible perforated lungs when he was struck by another competitor as they fought for a position on the race track.



Obviously I hope he gets well and makes a full recovery. However, this is his third huge crash in almost as many years whilst snowmobile racing, and the previous two he was lucky either to survive with his life or without any permanent injuries. I hope he calls it a day to his racing if he pulls through.

#16 cheesy poofs

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 21:42

Latest is Villeneuve is in intensive care but in a stable condition after being operated on earlier on Sunday. His doctors say he has a perforated lung, fractures to his rib cage and a leg along with a concussion from the heavy crash. He should make a full recovery.

His wife hopes he finally calls it a day.



#17 D-Type

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 22:11

Good to see he's off the critical list.

Let's hope he does finally call it a day.

#18 E1pix

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 22:30

I'm not so sure a guy like that can quit. Living under Gilles' shadow has to still be rough to find any other light in.

Everyone has to retire at some point as we know, but those V brothers are not cut from any normal cloth...

Hope he retires only if he's ready.

#19 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 23:59

I'm not so sure he would have considered he was living in Gilles' shadow...

I think I related the story I was told in the US by Pierre Phillips about when Gilles was at Modena or somewhere similar testing for Ferrari. An Italian F2 or F3 team were there and struggling a bit, Gilles walked up to them and said something along the lines of, "My brother would be a lot quicker in that car."

So the team flew him to Italy, he was faster, they offered him a home and money and everything they thought would get him to drive for them. "Nahh... this is too far from home..." or something similar, he told them.

He was doing a lot of work with snowmobile engines, if I recall correctly, perhaps he can settle back and let someone else use his engines now?

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#20 cheesy poofs

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 00:56

I'm not so sure he would have considered he was living in Gilles' shadow...

I think I related the story I was told in the US by Pierre Phillips about when Gilles was at Modena or somewhere similar testing for Ferrari. An Italian F2 or F3 team were there and struggling a bit, Gilles walked up to them and said something along the lines of, "My brother would be a lot quicker in that car."

So the team flew him to Italy, he was faster, they offered him a home and money and everything they thought would get him to drive for them. "Nahh... this is too far from home..." or something similar, he told them.

He was doing a lot of work with snowmobile engines, if I recall correctly, perhaps he can settle back and let someone else use his engines now?


The team in question was the Marlboro backed Euroracing team that was run by Paolo Pavanello. That drive went to Mauro Baldi who eventually won the European F3 championship and landed him in F1.

He wanted nothing about living in Europe and preferred to stay in North America.

Edited by cheesy poofs, 18 February 2013 - 00:57.


#21 cheesy poofs

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 02:36

Here's a cool segment on Jacques and his passion for snowmobile racing. This was done about a year ago.

http://www.youtube.c...be_gdata_player

It's in French but worth having a look at to see his world today. I must say that guy has motor oil in his veins!

Edited by cheesy poofs, 18 February 2013 - 02:37.


#22 E1pix

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 08:00

I'm not so sure he would have considered he was living in Gilles' shadow...

Ray, I can't imagine a superstar's brother not thinking that in some vein.

#23 RA Historian

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 14:24

On the other hand, Jacques was a race driver, and any race driver worth his salt believes that he is better than anyone else. I would have to agree with Ray; I would think that Jacques would have thought that he was every bit as good, only he, as stated earlier, chose to stay at home rather than move up the ladder in F-1.

#24 E1pix

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 19:49

Interesting take. Not sure Ray meant Jacques thought himself faster than Gilles specifically, I read it as G thinking J faster than whatever F2 or F3 guy they were testing.

Ray? Whadja mean? ;)

#25 JacnGille

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 02:02

Latest is Villeneuve is in intensive care but in a stable condition after being operated on earlier on Sunday. His doctors say he has a perforated lung, fractures to his rib cage and a leg along with a concussion from the heavy crash. He should make a full recovery.

Whew!

#26 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:02

My comment related to the impact Gilles' success had on Jaques' life...

I'm of the belief that he was man enough to know that envy would get him nowhere, that believing Gilles was better would never help him and that he had his own course to chart.

#27 Nemo1965

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:50

My comment related to the impact Gilles' success had on Jaques' life...

I'm of the belief that he was man enough to know that envy would get him nowhere, that believing Gilles was better would never help him and that he had his own course to chart.


I never met Jacques Villeneuve, but someone who like home so much as he does (I am exactly the same) probably also has a very sharp view on his own talents and shortcomings. For people who are very talented in any field, I have witnessed, the world as a whole is a welcoming pleace. For people who reasonably talented in their field of choice, the world is hostile... I met a lot of sportsmen, athletes, musicians who came very close to the top of their field but in the end withdrew themselves from the race for the topspot. And I feel it always had to also with the fact that they knew: I will never be the absolute best in my field.

So, yes, I think that the supreme talent of his brother played a part in his decision not to follow a carreer in Europe.

#28 seldo

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:38

I never met Jacques Villeneuve, but someone who like home so much as he does (I am exactly the same) probably also has a very sharp view on his own talents and shortcomings. For people who are very talented in any field, I have witnessed, the world as a whole is a welcoming pleace. For people who reasonably talented in their field of choice, the world is hostile... I met a lot of sportsmen, athletes, musicians who came very close to the top of their field but in the end withdrew themselves from the race for the topspot. And I feel it always had to also with the fact that they knew: I will never be the absolute best in my field.

So, yes, I think that the supreme talent of his brother played a part in his decision not to follow a carreer in Europe.


I think that many a sibling, in all fields of endeavour, have suffered from the dreaded "not as good as his/her sibling" syndrome, having made the mistake of trying to follow in their footsteps.
Someone who is smart enough to be cogniscent of this (only natural) line of thinking, will also probably be also astute enough to deliberately follow a path different enough to avoid any direct comparison, and therefore forge their own path in life...

#29 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:58

As I recall, however, Jacques beat Gilles in FAtlantic...

Is that not so?

#30 Tim Murray

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 13:28

I doubt it. As far as I know Gilles had his last Atlantic race in 1977. Jacques didn't race in the category until 1979.

#31 cheesy poofs

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 13:43

As I recall, however, Jacques beat Gilles in FAtlantic...

Is that not so?


No Ray. The only time in their careers they shared the same track was in F1. They never raced each other in any other series when Gilles was alive.



#32 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 13:54

I stand corrected...

But I do recall hearing stories of Jacques being very speedy in the FAtlantics.

#33 Tim Murray

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 14:22

Yes indeed - he and Gilles both won two Canadian/North American Atlantic championships, competing against quite a few of the same drivers.

#34 Bob Riebe

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:42

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ce.html?cmp=rss

Here you can see what happened.

#35 E1pix

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 19:48

I think part of why Jacques "was no Gilles" was because he tried to emulate him. Surely this originated in snowmobiles. I saw Jacques in Atlantic at Road America once, in 1981 I believe, and it was clear he was trying hard to be on that same ragged edge ridden so aptly by his brother. His failing in doing so was consistency. One lap, he came through Canada Corner waaaaay too deep, tried to make up for it by slide-braking, almost had it, then snapped off to the outside and into the lawn. He never lifted, flat-out Baja style, thought the entire March would come apart on the spot. I can't recall anyone driving so hard on the dirt... I mean, unless in a dirt car. :)

I lettered an ex-Jacques car once, his orange Canadian Tire Can-Am car, for its new owner Rick Miaskiewicz. Taking Jacques last name off, his brother and my Hero just two years dead, seemed sacrilege. I use EZ-Off oven cleaner to remove painted lettering, watching the Villeneuve name melt from the car was one strangely-sad moment for me.

#36 B Squared

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:17

Jacques in the Formula Atlantic race that was held Formula One weekend in Canada in 1981. If I remember correctly he won, or possibly leading when he broke.

I hope he makes a full recovery from his injuries.

Posted Image

#37 Tim Murray

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 21:45

He'd won the previous year's GP support race, but the 1981 race was not one of his better efforts. He qualified down in eighth place after a shunt in practice, and knocked Dan Marvin off trying to make up places on the opening lap. He then ran into the back of Rogelio Rodriguez and spun down to seventh before retiring with electrical problems on lap 10.

http://www.oldracing...php?RaceID=K81I

#38 E1pix

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 22:01

It seems by 1981 the March had lost much ground to the RT4 as well — despite winning the title IIRC.

(verified: JV won the title in Marchs in both '80 and '81. The competition was not as stiff as it was in the prior few years IMO, but he earned it regardless)


Brian: Yes, I'm sure we all do.

Thanks for the photo as well. :up:

Edited by E1pix, 19 February 2013 - 22:03.


#39 B Squared

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:44

Tim - thanks for providing correct info on Jacques' 81 Atlantic race. :blush:

The brothers on Saturday during the 1981 Canadian GP weekend.

photo: B²
Posted Image

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#40 E1pix

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:02

Never seen anything like that one, Brian. :up:

#41 Tim Murray

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:12

Tim - thanks for providing correct info on Jacques' 81 Atlantic race. :blush:

No need for the blushing smiley Brian - I couldn't remember anything at all about the race, which is why I was curious, and looked the details up. Thanks for the great photos.

Edited by Tim Murray, 20 February 2013 - 10:13.


#42 cheesy poofs

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 14:27

Tim - thanks for providing correct info on Jacques' 81 Atlantic race. :blush:

The brothers on Saturday during the 1981 Canadian GP weekend.

photo: B²
Posted Image


That's a nice pic Brian. That was taken where T1 is now after the track was modified between the 1986 and 1988 race.


#43 Marc Sproule

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:37

That's the first time I've ever seen another pic of the two of them together. Our pics must have been taken just seconds apart.

Mine was taken in what was then the last turn. Given that the Ferrari was the quicker of the two cars, I would expect they were together on the track for only a few seconds.

http://www.flickr.co...157624008130538

#44 Tim Murray

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:14

I wonder if these photos show either of the incidents related in the Donaldson biography of Gilles:

And on the track, said the elder Villeneuve, "He's no different than anyone else. If I have to push him, I'll push him." In truth, Gilles actually tucked his Ferrari in front of his brother's Arrows and tried to tow him along to a faster time. But the two also nearly had a disastrous coming together.

"I could tell his engine was very slow throughout qualifying," said Gilles, "and because of that we almost crashed. Coming out of the hairpin I was about fifty feet behind him and gaining. Jacques went to the left and I thought he was slowing down to let me pass. But it was his engine that was slowing him down and just as I was about to pass on the right Jacques moved over He didn't see me. That would have made a good show for all the people had we crashed!"

Jacques failed to make the qualifying cut, being delayed by an overheating engine on Friday, then crashing on Saturday.



#45 B Squared

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:33

That's the first time I've ever seen another pic of the two of them together. Our pics must have been taken just seconds apart.

Mine was taken in what was then the last turn. Given that the Ferrari was the quicker of the two cars, I would expect they were together on the track for only a few seconds.

http://www.flickr.co...157624008130538


That's pretty neat - I'd not seen any other than mine. Cheesy correctly identified where I shot from. I believe Gilles passed Jacques moments after my shot was taken. I know that I was deliberately looking for the two of them together and it took some time to materialize.

#46 cheesy poofs

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 19:31

My friend David asked me what was said in that video I posted. So here's s rough translation of the video I just shared with David Kane.

The interviewer says its difficult to get an interview with JV because he doesn't enjoy all the PR crap. So he gets people around him to talk about him.

His mechanic starts by saying he's always afraid Jacques is gonna get injured as he's had quite a few scary accidents in the past. The day before this shooting, he had broken a rib and was still uncomfortable. That's when you see the guy choke up as he's asked about how worried he gets for his friend.

His other friend says all Jacques likes to do us race. He says his wife and the Vileneuves get along very well, but Jacques is not very sociable. He's been asked to go on vacation but refuses to go as he prefers to stay in Canada. He lets Mrs. Villeneuve go with his friend and wife. He adds that Jacques has never been to his house.

When the interviewer finally gets to Villeneuve, he opens up and talks. 

He says that this (snowmobile) is all he knows to do in life. He laments that winters aren't as long as they used to be and the racing season is way too short. He says he loves to do this as he feels he's still competitive and will only consider retirement if he's not competitive enough. He says he doesn't make a lot of money and his nephew is the one who made the money in the family. Both he and his brother never made lots of money out of this sport. He says he's not afraid of dying or getting injured. He feels his brother died the best way. And thats while doing something he loved. Jacques says he would never accept to be injured and handicapped for the rest of his life. He would prefer to die like his brother if he had to. But he does say he doesn't want to die and feels he has angels (brother and father) looking out for him.

He doesn't regret one thing of his life and would not change a thing. 

Edited by cheesy poofs, 21 February 2013 - 19:46.


#47 E1pix

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 19:40

Thanks Cheesy and David!

Though I don't know Jacques, this is exactly what I'd presume him to do and say.

A True Racer, and his brother's brother. :up:

Edited by E1pix, 21 February 2013 - 19:41.


#48 cheesy poofs

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 11:05

Two weeks after suffering a terrible crash, Villeneuve has left the hospital where he was being treated. Doctors had asked he'd be kept further for evaluation or transferred to a hospital near his home, but Villeneuve signed papers asking for his release. He is now back home and recuperating.

#49 JacnGille

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 13:39

:clap:

#50 E1pix

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 19:02

Second that! :clap: :clap: