Netherlands 1961 and Stirling Moss
Posted 13 October 2003 - 20:40
If so, what chasis it was ?
p.s. I am pretty sure that the engine was Climax L4 1,5l
Posted 13 October 2003 - 20:50
Posted 13 October 2003 - 21:16
P.S. Off topic, the talks are about setting up the Croatian GPL League (there's three or four of us already in quite keen to get it underway). Are You interested in joining? We could at least set up few races amongst ourselves for starters.
Posted 13 October 2003 - 21:25
Originally posted by conjohn
I have the RRC Walker spare car as a Cooper T53 (F1-7-61) with a Coventry Climax FPF MkII.
Well, I was confused a little bit since I have No.14 2 times entered with a name Stirling Moss in that race and I know he drove his famous Monaco and Nurburgring ... for Walker
Posted 13 October 2003 - 21:47
There would have been a time to make a decision about which car to run... and in this case it fell to the Lotus. Reasons for entering like this might have included the possibility of the Lotus being damaged and there being no backup Lotus, for instance. In all probability there was never any intention of running the Cooper.
Wolf... Moss drove a Cooper periodically in Australia and New Zealand in 1961, and I think in 1962. Famously, it's said that after he set fastest practice time in a Lotus at Warwick Farm it was proclaimed by others that this was because it was a 'Lotus circuit'...
Moss ran his Cooper in that race and, from memory, won it.
Posted 13 October 2003 - 21:55
Originally posted by Dino_Besen
Did he have reserve entry in Cooper ?
If so, what chasis it was ?
p.s. I am pretty sure that the engine was Climax L4 1,5l
The R.R.C. Walker Racing Team spare was as "conjohn" correctly stated, '7/61' with one of the Mark II Climax FPF engines.
Here is something on this race:
After packing up the pieces and litter from the streets of Monte Carlo, the GP circus headed from the Netherlands where the next race, the Dutch GP, was only eight days away. With the first qualifying session on Saturday, there was much to be done in the space of only a few days. There was the usual round of grumbling and complaining about the supposed rule stating that there was supposed to be 14 days between Championship events, but the race was contracted to run and Whit Monday and that was that was that. So, with nary a word from the gnomes at the CSI (Commission Sportive Internationale) as a comfort, the teams started their trek from the warm, sunny beaches of the Mediterranean to the shores of the windy, cold shores of the North Sea.
To make Life simpler for everyone - interpret that as cheaper for the organizers - the entry was limited to only those cars invited to practice of which only 15 would receive starting money. The Usual Suspects were invited, of course:
1, 2, 3 - SEFAC SpA Ferrari, Phil Hill, Richie Ginther, & Wolfgang von Trips (Ferrari Dino 156)
4, 5 - Owen Racing Organisation, Graham Hill & Tony Brook (BRM P57 - Climax FPF)
6, 7 - Porsche System Engineering, Joakim Bonnier & Dan Gurney (Porsche 787)
8, 9 - Ecurie Maarsbergen, Carel de Beaufort & Hans Herrmann (Porsche 718/2)
10, 11 - Cooper Car Company, Jack Brabham & Bruce McLaren (Cooper T55 - Climax FPF)
12 - Reg Parnell (Racing)/ Yeoman Credit Racing Team, John Surtees (Cooper T53 - Climax FPF)
14 - R. R. C. Walker racing Team, Stirling Moss (Lotus 18 - Climax FPF)
15, 16 - Team Lotus, Jim Clark & Trevor Taylor (Lotus 21 - Climax FPF)
With the "Reserves" being:
17, 18 - Camoradi International, Masten Gregory & Ian Burgess (Cooper T53/ Lotus 18 - Climax FPF)
When practice commenced at mid-morning on Saturday, the weather was cold and very windy. Brabham was credited with the quickest time although his own pits had his several ticks slower. Moss tried the Cooper T53 that Walker had brought along to see if it offered an advantage over the Lotus. The session was run without the Ferrari team and the others took advantage of their absence to tweak the cars in hope of repeating the result at Monaco. Trevor Taylor was called up from the Formula Junior team by Team Lotus since Innes Ireland was still the worse for wear after his shunt at Monte Carlo.
The second session started in the afternoon with the weather generally cold and overcast. Showers were chill the teams at times during the session. The Ferrari team had arrived during lunch and were soon in the swing of things. Moss, back in the Lotus 18, was quickest as the Dino's were getting in their stride. Just as von Trips was putting down the hammer, a heavy shower hit the track and paid an end to that effort. However, von Trips did equal Brabham's time from the morning session to end up third behind Moss and Gurney.
Sunday morning saw an unofficial session where the times were not recorded or even noted for the record for that matter. The activity in the Ferrari pit was only a tad above the chaotic as springs were changed, shocks adjusted, suspension altered, tire pressures messed with - eventually being higher than Dunlop suggested with 6.50 x 15 sizes being used instead of the 6.00 x 15 being found on the other teams in the paddock, and rear axle ratios being messed with - being lowered on all the cars at the direction of Phil Hill.
In the third session, held on Sunday afternoon, in warm if windy conditions, the Ferrari team left no doubt that they were now in charge and intended to take their revenge after several years of being pushed around by the Brits. Perhaps the highlight of the session was the performance of Masten Gregory. Still stuck with a Mark I version of the FPF and so down a number of horses to even the other Climax-powered teams, he flung the Cooper around the track in both sessions, but really got the bit between his teeth and spurs out in this session. When the dust settled he was seventh on the time sheets for the session, ahead of the works Coopers, as well as the Lotus team! And teammate Burgess also did well, placing 12th and ahead such leading lights as McLaren and Bonnier and much quicker than Local Hero de Beaufort.
But, despite this excellent performance on the Camoradi drivers, the organizers (the K.N.A.C.) stuck to their guns and offered starting money to only the 15 invited cars. They pointed to the fine print which said the reserves started only if one of the invited cars was unable to start. Life is, as they say, like that at times...
Here is how the grid formed up on the 3 x 2 grid:
P. Hill 1min 35.7sec
von Trips 1min 35.7sec
Ginther 1min 35.9sec
Moss 1min 36.2sec
G. Hill 1min 36.3sec
Gurney 1min 36.4sec
Brabham 1min 36.6sec
Brooks 1min 36.8sec
Surtees 1min 36.8sec
Clark 1min 36.9sec
Bonnier 1min 37.1sec
Herrmann 1min 38.0sec
McLaren 1min 38.2sec
Taylor 1min 39.5sec
de Beaufort 1min 39.8sec
Gregory 1min 36.8sec
Burgess 1min 38.0sec
Stirling Moss was greeted by the usual mob as he emerged from the Hotel Bouwes for the day's activities. The turn-out of the Surtees fans was noted as many of those who usually frequented on the bike races were seen about town in their leathers. And, to the immense relief of the organizers, the crowd was huge, perhaps 70,000, and easily the largest turn-out ever, exceeding even that of a recent friendly with West Germany.
After the usual pre-race festivities, which included some local sports car sprints whose primary purpose seemed to be to ensure that the track got a good oiling, then the drivers being paraded around the circuit in a bevy of Austin-Healey 100's and 3000's after the local races - probably mostly to see where all the oil was, Prince Bernhard and Princess Irene (wearing a head scarf with the Ferrari emblem...) dropping in by helicopter and then shaking hands with all the drivers and various hangers-on, and the obligatory panic on the grid when it was discovered that the Hill Dino was sans clutch - which saw an absolute swarm of tan-uniformed mechanics engulf the car and remedy the situation in less than five minutes as Hill looked on, and then the Clerk of the Course Ted Kolff held up the 30 second to go board...
When President van Haaren dropped the flag to start the race, Taffy von Trips led the way off the grid with Hill - Graham this time not Phil - in second after a great start as the other Hill - Phil this time - was taking it easy with his new clutch. However, the Hill Ferrari was soon protecting the "six" of his German teammate as they began to separate themselves from the field. There was one car that seemed to step up to the plate and was ready to do battle with the red cars, the green Lotus of Jim Clark. As Clark moved to engage the Ferraris, he sat the fastest lap of the race, 1min 35.5sec 158.060kmph, on the seventh lap.
While Jim Clark had garnered some attention during his first season in F1 (1960), this was the season that he started to emerge and Zandvoort was the race that is usually pointed to as the turning point. Clark tore after the Ferrari of Hill and passed the Dino on lap 22. Clark held second until he was passed during the 29th lap, but got past again for second on lap 32 and was back to third on lap 35.
A highlight of all this was Clark trying to put a move on Hill using the inside line which led him to sweep past the pits - and have the mechanics demonstrate some quick footwork - and the excited dropping of signal boards - as the green car came screaming by within centimeters of where they had been. The Lotus started showing some strain from the pace and Clark was now faced with the steering being rather dodgy and when Hill pulled away to close on von Trips, Clark could do little but hope for the best. There was visible relief on the faces of Carlo Chiti and Romolo Tavoni, both of whom had spent most of the race standing in the front of the Ferrari pit area clicking stopwatches, yelling instructions, growling at mechanics as to what to put on the signal-boards, and generally looking as if they had eaten fiberglass for lunch - which would have been preferable to letting the Boss know they had been beaten again...
After finally shedding the pesky Lotus of Clark after some anxious moments - the result at Monaco being crystal clear in their mind's eye - the Dino duo cruised to the finish of the 75-lap race. After closing to within a second of von Trips, Hill held station and made no attempt to harry his teammate.
Were it that easy for their teammate, Richie Ginther. After a slow start which saw him engulfed by the next two rows, Ginther had surged back and settled into a series of battles for fourth and/or fifth that lasted virtually the entire race. Ginther and Moss seemed to find themselves butting heads the entire race. In the end, the dark blue Lotus pipped the Ferrari at the line by a mere 0.1sec for fourth place.
When the race ended, it was realized that not a single entrant had retired from the race, nor had there been a pit stop for any reason! An extraordinary and still unique occurrence in the annals of the Championship. Indeed, the closest to a car entering the pits was the "brush-back" given by Clark during his battle with Phil Hill.
The aftermath of the race was rather chaotic as the crowds swarmed onto the circuit. Prince Bernhard and Princess Irene waited in vain to present Taffy von Trips his trophy due to the mass of people crowding the area around the pits and the paddock.
Posted 14 October 2003 - 05:09
Moss raced only the Lotus 18 in New Zealand in 1961, and at Warwick Farm. In 1962 he alternated beteen the Lotus 21 and Coopr T53
Originally posted by Ray Bell
Moss drove a Cooper periodically in Australia and New Zealand in 1961, and I think in 1962.
Posted 14 October 2003 - 05:52
I knew that he had both cars at some time, but I didn't know in detail. I thought I'd expressed my doubts correctly, but I got it the wrong way round...
Posted 14 October 2003 - 08:32
Posted 15 October 2003 - 11:01
Posted 15 October 2003 - 14:16
Originally posted by Wolf
OK, further OT... Dino, looks all set for Friday evening for a small race or two... Interested in testing Your metal against compatriots (actually, it's intended to be fun, rather than anything else)?
use mail !
p.s. I would also like to thank all who helped me in this thread !
Posted 16 October 2003 - 18:13
Posted 16 October 2003 - 18:35
Posted 16 October 2003 - 20:00
Posted 16 October 2003 - 20:39
Originally posted by Wolf
You're right Bladrian, that is Cooper...
and as far as I know - they both had #14
Posted 16 October 2003 - 20:44
I was reading a piece by Henry N. Manney III again today .... they were glorious romantics. Wasn't it wonderful?