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Brooklands 1907


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#1 Boniver

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Posted 24 October 2003 - 09:44

1907 Brooklands

28 JUNI 1907 24h record race
3 cars

1 Edge Napier 60 ph 1.581m 65,9 m/h
2 Tryon Napier 60 ph 42 m
3 Newton Napier 60 ph 60 m

(18 YAERS !!!! record )


6 juli 1907 Marcel Renault Plate 85-110 11.5 m

heat 1 1 Tryon Napier 40
2 Huntley Walker Darracq
3 Groves Renault
F Sorel Dietrich

heat 2 1 Earp Iris 35
2 Bircham Iris 40
3 Fabry Itala

Fin 1 Ytyon Napier 40
2 Earp Iris
3 Walker Darracq


6 juli 1907 Horsley Plate 60 - 85 3.28 m
1 Walker Darracq
2 Lord Straker Squire
3 Gore Browne Thorny croft
4 Saunderson Brasier

6 juli 1907 Gottlied Daimler Plate 120 - 155 Keiser classe 15.8 m
1 Instone Daimler
2 Walker Darracq
Moore Brabazon Minerve kaiser
Sanyster Ariel Simlplex

6 juli 1907 Byfleet Plate 110-135 10.3 m
1 Newton Napier 45
2 Jarrott Dietrich 60
3 Walker Darracq
Wagner Fiat

F Nazzaro Fiat gekwest ogen

6 juli 1907 montagu Cup 155 - 235 (GP cars) 30.5m
1 Hutton Mercedes GP
2 Okura Fiat
3 Resta Mercedes GP (1° verkeerde weg)

6 juli 1907 Stevenson Plate Standaard cars 6 m
1 Marquis de Mouzilly Darracq


20 juli 1907 2° meeting private contest
2 cars
1 Sanyster Ariel Simplex
2 Coleman White Streamer


X aug 1907 Internationale Plate
1 Newton Napier
2 Gabriel Dietrich

X aug 1907 Heath Stakes GP cars
1 Hutton Mercedes GP

X aug 1907 Bezlgian Plate
1 Tryon Napier
2 Cecil Edge Napier

X aug 1907 Oatlands Selling Plate
1 Browning Napier
2 Jarrot Sizaire

x aug 1907 Prix de la France GP cars
1 Resta Mercedes GP
2 Hutton Mercedes GP
3 Tryon Napier

14-sep-07 meeting ?

Vincent Hermann Minerva
(erg accident mechanicien +)

12 okt 1907 sprint 2 cars
1 no Napier
1 no Napier
1 no Napier




More ...................... ????????

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#2 Boniver

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Posted 24 October 2003 - 10:24

1908 Brooklands

18 april 1908 I race
1 no Berliet
II race
no
III Sizaire Naudin Car Cup
10 cars
no
IV race 26 hp
no
V race 40 hp
no
VI Private competitors HD
no

mei 08 Montagu Cup 90 ph GP cars
1 Newton Napier
2 Resta Mercedes

mei 1908 May meeting prive competitors
no

juli 1908 July Trophy
1 Tom Faulkner Mercedes 18/28

aug/08 O'Corman Trophy FL 100 m
7 cars
1 Newton Napier
Lewis Deasy
Reynolds Napier klapband-acc
Pigot Darracq
Pyine Mercedes
Hutton Hutton
Lane Mercedes (accident
Lane - gekwest stopt)
mechanicien +

1908 Match race sprint 2 cars

Edge Napier GP forfet after acc Lane
Jarrott De Dietrich GP forfet

x Match races sprint 2 cars

1 Thompson (v) Austin
2 Ellis (v) Arrold Johnsson

1 Newton Napier
2 Cupper Metallurgique

1 Draper Napier
2 Cupper Metallurgique


12/jun/08 Match race sprint 2 cars

1 Nazzaro Fiat 90 ph GP 120 mph
2 Newton Napier

(RECORD !!!! tot 1922)


1908 Scottisch 2000m trial speedtest 200 m
1 Hancock Vauxhall 20 ph

#3 Boniver

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Posted 24 October 2003 - 10:26

1909 Brooklands

x1909 2 O'Gorman Trophy LC 28m
1 Hanrock vauxhall 20

x 1909 3 Montagu Cup >35

? Hillier napier
? Stirling Brasier
? Abercromby napier
? Torington Fiat

x 1909 Easter Trophy race I
Tate Mercedes 60
Easter Trophy race II
Tate Mercedes 60

mei 1909 Senior Handicap Race
1 Dutton Asley
no Mercedes
Abercomby napier
Baker White Napier 60
Wildegose Itala

x 1909 Four Inch Race <26
1 Jolley de Dion
2 Whittaker Hutton

x 1909 Whitsun meeting sprint 2 cars 4r
1 Leo Ralli Kotchkiss
2 Charles Forbes no

1 Stirling Arrell Johnsson
2 Gore Browne Piccard pictet

oktober 1909 Senior Handicap
1 Lisle Star

12-nov-09 Match meting 2 cars 3R
1 Hancock Vauxhall
2 Lisle Star

x1909 Summermeeting
Record race 1km - 1 m
Nazzaro Fiat no record




and ..........................?????

#4 Henk

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Posted 24 October 2003 - 20:10

14-sep-07 meeting ?

Vincent Hermann Minerva
(erg accident mechanicien +)

Is there anything known about Vincent Hermann and his accident?

A Brooklands ghost story tells us that it was the driver who died:

The ghost of another racing driver, Vincent Herman, the first man to die on the track, who was killed in September 1907, has also been seen at Brooklands. One young boy living near the Byfleet Banking saw 'the figure of a man staggering around with his head half hanging off' and was so severely shocked that he had to be given medical treatment….):

Included in McRonalds’ identification thread was this picture from Ingo Seiff’s Das große Buch der Oldtimer, described as Brooklands Motor Race Meeting 1907, the Minerva of J.T.C. Moore-Brabazon:

Posted Image

Could it be that Vincent Hermann was driving Moore-Brabazon’s Kaiserpreis Minerva when he had his accident?
Or did Moore-Brabazon have an accident as well during the 1907 Brooklands season?

#5 D-Type

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Posted 24 October 2003 - 20:10

According to http://www.brookland...hive/STORY2.HTM the 28th June 1907 event was not a race as such but a demonstration cum record attempt by Napier.

Does WB's "History of Brooklands Motor Course" include results?

#6 Criceto

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Posted 24 October 2003 - 23:05

Not in table form. He hides most of them within the body of the text, and even then only really looks at the top threes.

You have no idea just how hard it is tracking down Brooklands minor place finishers!

As for Vincent Herman, he certainly had his fatal accident in Moore-Brabazon's Kaiserpreis Minerva.

First of all, Bill Boddy himself:

"Vincent Herman... overturned after crossing the finish line by attempting to turn on to the Members Banking at too high a speed; the front wheels collapsed and the car rolled over, pinning Herman beneath it. His mechanic was thrown clear but Herman had been fatally injured. To make matters worse a pitched battle took place outside the Clubhouse as BARC officials sought to prevent Press photographers from entering after the stretchers had been conveyed inside."

Autocar from September 21 1907 renders the accident thus:

"Just after leaving the straight the Napier was pulled up in about the middle of the track. The Minerva driven by Herman... ran very fast after passing the finishing line and the driver apparently failed to see the Napier on the track and swung out too wide, thus running high up on the banked turn. The result was that the right hand rear wheel actually got right over the upper edge of the track and in endeavouring to right the car it was turned broadside on and finally toppled down the track, the driver and mechanic being thrown upon the cement surface."

and also from Autocar

"...the inside driving wheel did not break at the moment the car went off the track, but there was nothing left except the rim and the hub and some splinters. Considering the speed of the car and the suddenness with which its direction was changed it is really remarkable that it was not more completely wrecked. Of course, the frame and the axles were bent, the steering standard broken in, but beyond the back wheels there were very few parts which appeared to be actually broken."

#7 Marcor

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Posted 29 October 2003 - 22:35

Horace Vincent HERMAN was classified 5th in his fatal race. The crash occured after he had finihsed his race. The yellow Minerva was entered in the name of J. T. C. Moore-Brabazon, but it belonged to a syndicate of 4 of whom the deceased was one. Moore-Brabazon was to be married shortly and at the urgent entreaty of his fiancée he gave up the idea of driving the car himself.

Vincent was 35 years of age and came from Walgrave, Berkshire. He died at the Hand and Spear Hotel about 8 PM some hours after the crash. His mechanic, named Slade, was also hurt but not seriously.

Infos found in The Daily News (September 16th and 17th, 1907)

#8 Vitesse2

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Posted 29 October 2003 - 22:49

Marc, in the interests of accuracy, I think that should be Wargrave, not Walgrave :)

#9 Marcor

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Posted 30 October 2003 - 23:18

Ok:
Wargrave, Berkshire and Walgrave, Northamptonshire...

#10 Kvadrat

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 10:18

There's well known picture of Selvin Edge practicing at Brooklands on 90hp Napier prior to his 24-hour record attempt:

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Some sources even say that it was taken DURING the record run but it's not truth because record run was made on 60hp Napiers.

I try to find exact date of this photo. There's interesting item on eBay: 1907 PRINT BROOKLANDS MOTOR TRACK - BRITISH MUSEUM.

Posted Image

I can't read date on the top of the page. Most possible is June 24. Was The Illustrated London News daily paper?

The picture in the peper is retouched for some reason:

Posted Image

Does anyone know when the photo was taken?

#11 Vitesse2

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 11:24

I doubt it will be possible to find an exact date, Vladimir. It might even be from before the official opening of the track on June 17th 1907. You are entirely correct that it's not the actual record run - the car in the picture is the Napier L48 which Edge used in training. There's a picture in David Venables' "Napier: First to Wear the Green" which was almost certainly taken on the same occasion, showing the car with driver and riding mechanic - who, incidentally, is Dario Resta - in the Brooklands paddock. To narrow down the date would need close research in the magazines of the day.

The Illustrated London News was a weekly magazine - their picture archive is now handled by the Mary Evans Picture Library:

http://www.ilnpictures.co.uk/

I can't link the picture directly, but you can find the original on the site: just enter Brooklands in the search box.

#12 chdphd

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 12:54

http://www.ilnpictur...8659_115466.jpg

#13 Marticelli

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 17:37

Just come across this thread by accident when searching for something else... I have a copy of this excellent image of Edge and Resta in L48 which was published in the Illustrated London news on 13 July 1907. It is a dramatic picture but I am fairly certain it was a photo montage as it looked rather faked up, with some process white added behind the car to suggest speed and some black dust added around the wheels to suggest shadows that aren't in the original image. Altogether there is something not quite right about the perspective etc. Furthermore, when examined closely, the banked track looks more like a watercolour sketch than a photograph, and that's what it is I am sure, as the image of the car looks too sharp to be a picture taken of a moving car in 1907.

Even more perplexing is the heading title on the picture, which reads "Speed!! On the knees of the Lord." - whatever that means!!

The actual 24 hour record run took place on 29 and 30 June 1907, so the dummy shot must date from earlier that month as L48 wasn't used for the actual record attempt.

Martin Shelley

Edited by Marticelli, 15 April 2010 - 17:38.


#14 Kvadrat

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 04:39

I think original picture is real photo.

#15 Marticelli

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 06:58

I think original picture is real photo.

I am not in any doubt that the picture first posted is a real photo, but the important thing is it is a posed static picture not an action shot, as things like the wheel spokes are in sharp focus which they wouldn't be if it had been taken of L48 passing at speed. David Venables excellent book "Napier - the first to wear the green" has a shot of L48 in the Brooklands paddock on the same day with Edge and Resta dressed as they are in the banking shot, Edge with a cloth helmet and Resta a flat cap and goggles, so I am certain soon after the paddock shot was taken they drove round onto the banking to pose for the rather more dramatic looking shot we now have. When Illustrated London News used it however, they touched it up to look like an action shot as the posed shot looks too much like what it is, and not worth a whole page of the magazine!

The odder thing to me is that they published it on 13 July, a fortnight after the 24 hour 60mph record had been set using the 60 HP cars, not L48, but maybe that just reflects the time it took to set a magazine in the days before computers and desk top publishing. The caption talks about Friday 28 June having been fixed for the start of Edge's record attempt, although in fact they started on 29 June and finished on 30 June.

Martin Shelley


#16 Vitesse2

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 09:21

The odder thing to me is that they published it on 13 July, a fortnight after the 24 hour 60mph record had been set using the 60 HP cars, not L48, but maybe that just reflects the time it took to set a magazine in the days before computers and desk top publishing. The caption talks about Friday 28 June having been fixed for the start of Edge's record attempt, although in fact they started on 29 June and finished on 30 June.

Martin Shelley

Much to my delight, I found only a couple of days ago that I now have free access to the full ILN archive via Cengage. This illustration does not appear in the magazine dated July 13th. They published a report on the record run in the June 6th issue, mainly illustrated with sketches and featuring only one photograph - the well-known picture with the rigged-up windscreen which is also in Venables' book.

However - I found it. It's actually in the issue dated June 30th! It is headlined "The forthcoming great feat of endurance in motoring" and the caption is clearly in anticipation of the run.

And thanks to Google I also tracked down the quote. It's from an incredibly turgid poem called "A Song of Speed" by William Ernest Henley. The poem is dedicated to Alfred Harmsworth, later Lord Northcliffe.

Edited by Vitesse2, 17 April 2010 - 09:22.


#17 Marticelli

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 17:29

I found it. It's actually in the issue dated June 30th! It is headlined "The forthcoming great feat of endurance in motoring" and the caption is clearly in anticipation of the run.


Odder still... What I have is an original page from the actual 13 July 1907 ILN, not a copy or a reproduction, but a page from the original publication. The date is writ clear on the top edge of the page and cannot be wrong, so why does the archive copy not tally with the actual publication? On the reverse side is a large picture of the new huge extension to the British Museum inaugurated by the King and also clearly dated 13 July, as of course its the reverse side of the same page from the same publication...

Martin

#18 Vitesse2

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 17:59

Curiouser and curiouser ....

I've just double checked that and the BM extension is indeed on the reverse! Does your copy have the text I quoted at the top below the date?

#19 Marticelli

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 11:39

Curiouser and curiouser ....

I've just double checked that and the BM extension is indeed on the reverse! Does your copy have the text I quoted at the top below the date?

Well that's amazing... Here is the close up of the top of the page I own...

Posted Image

Who can tell what is the truth..?


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#20 David McKinney

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 13:24

I wonder if they had a foreign edition, which might have a later date?

The Illustrated London News was certainly a favourite in doctors' and dentists' waiting-rooms in NZ in the 1950s

#21 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 16:19

I think David's probably nailed it - an export edition for the Empire. I can't read the page number on the top of the online page - it's not included in the enlarged part of the scan - but it looks a lot longer than the 60 on your scan, Martin. If the Cengage page numbering is correct, then it says 1000.

#22 Marticelli

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 09:44

This is undoubtedly the answer, as I bought it on eBay from a US vendor, so it will have been the US edition... Didn't know they didn't just ship out the London edition and let it arrive later... It is a fine picture though and as I race Edwardians, it seems appropriate to adorn the study wall even if my own Edwardian is somewhat modest compared to Samson...

Martin