15 replies to this topic

[ian senior]

An old copy of "Motor" revealed that, at the launch of the 1976 Ligier-Matra, Jean-Pierre Beltoise was down to drive the thing in the forthcoming season. He described it as "the best F1 car I have ever been presented with", perhaps forgetting several decent Matras.......Anyway, did he ever drive it in a race? If not, why not?

[Mallory Dan]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Jarier was supposed to be the first choice to race it after he'd had the Matra V12 in his Shadow towards the end of 75. In the end Laffite got the drive, apparently it was a shock to him too ! Very willing to be corrected on any of this.

[VDP]

Jean Pierre Beltoise was the first choice from Gitanes, but he was short of competition, sabbatical year after the BRM desaster, he was confronted with a trial at Paul Ricard against J. Laffite , Laffite was obvious faster than Beltoise.
jp Beltoise had if I remember good a pre contract with Gitanes and not Ligier, ther was a trial also
but it was only for the salary not for the drive ??

Robert

[philippe7]

Exactly.....I perfectly remember those tests at Paul Ricard , which made the headlines in the french press during the winter "mid-season" . Indeed , JPB had been officially announced as the 1976 Ligier driver ( certainly through his Gitanes contract ) but Guy Ligier apparently thought this was not such a good idea , due to Jean-Pierre's age and his year out of F1 in 1975 . So , in order to " test the real potential" of his car who had already, in JPB's hands, set shattering times in testing at Paul Ricard, he summoned "other" drivers to also have a go....although in retrospect , it seems today quite clear that his choice of Jacques Laffite , who had won the F2 championship and scored some good showings ( including a 2nd at the Ring ) in F1 for franck Williams in75, was already made .

So some other drivers were brought to Paul Ricard , Laffite did some better times than JPB , I'm not sure if Jarier did get a chance to drive ( he was contracted to Shadow ) , and good old Henri Pescarolo was deemed "too heavy" to fit in the car....I remember I read an open letter Henri wrote in the sports daily " L'équipe" , in which he bitterly complained about the "trap" set for his old mate Beltoise in those tests ( "Le piège tendu à Jean Pierre Beltoise" was the title of the article ) , pointing out that it was unloyal to compare times set on different days , in different temperatures, with maybe even different engines......

Although it was fair enough from Ligier to consider that Lafitte was a better long term prospect , the way this whole business was arranged was generally considered in the press as quite disgraceful. Considering the level of "good service" that Beltoise had given to French motorsport during the previous decade, it was felt that he deserved a more honourable end to his career .....

[ensign14]

Jarier did drive the Ligier at Fuji in 1976, didn't he? Or am I dreaming again?

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by ensign14
Jarier did drive the Ligier at Fuji in 1976, didn't he? Or am I dreaming again?

No, it was Fuji 1977. Jarier drove Ligier JS7-Matra #27 and he retired at 3rd lap (engine).
Then of course he was back in 1983.

Ciao,
Guido

[GIGLEUX]

The test was unfair as Beltoise and Lafitte,too had not the same tyres.

[David M. Kane]

At least it was a French team that did it to him! I am not, nor was I ever a big fan of Guy Ligier. He was way too political for me. And this clearly was politics at the highest. I couldn't agree more on JPB contributions to French motorsports and yes, he did deserve better.

Not all stories have happy endings...

[tyrrellp34]

Here I can recommand you the Matra videos 1 &2. Available in the old Matra factory near Blois in France. You can see some hot pictures from the day, when Ligier tested both drivers, also on board. You see, that Beltoise was fighting against the car with just one arm, and later Laffite driving some perfect laps.

Some years ago Belto mentioned, that he never was angry about Laffite because more that ten years before he maybe also destroyed the racing carrer of Schlesser, who was the first choice of the Matra F1 project.

Now, with 66 years of age Beltoise's arm is so bad that he cannot ride his motorbikes anymore and so one can see him driving sometimes with a 50cc scooter... How things change..

[john winfield]

Here's some footage from the Ligier launch in late 1975, JPB in the car.

 

https://www.britishp.../query/beltoise

[john aston]

I'm sure I head someone say on the video -'Sacre bleu , cet truc - c'est enorme , gigantique !  C'est magnifique , mais c'est ne pas un airbox ' 

[arttidesco]

In the years running up to the JS5 project Guy had run all the best French drivers of the day in his JS2 sports cars in various guises, I am sure he must have had a pretty good idea who he wanted to drive the JS5 in 1976 at the time of the teams F1 announcement.

 

Odd that JPB mentioned destroying Schlessers career, given that it is Schlessers initials that make the Ligier JS model numbers. Can anyone expand on the role JPB might have had in destroying Jo Schlesser career ?

[john winfield]

 Can anyone expand on the role JPB might have had in destroying Jo Schlesser career ?

 

What tyrrellp34 was saying back in 2003 was, I think, that JPB's rise up the motor racing ladder in 1966/67 squeezed Schlesser out of the works Matra drive, a point which Adam Cooper also mentions in his 'Road to Rouen' article in Motor Sport (April 2001). I'm sure no blame is attached to JPB, just that his results must have impressed Matra more. In 1966 the two were both works Matra F2 drivers but, by mid-1967, Schlesser was 'relegated' to a Ford France sponsored Matra, and was presumably seen as third best behind Beltoise and Servoz-Gavin. Pescarolo joined the Matra F2 team in 1968 while Schlesser ran a McLaren alongside Guy Ligier.

 

Presumably. when Matra and Jean-Luc Lagardère began their F3-F2-F1 programme in the mid 1960s, they envisaged Schlesser taking them forward rather like Jabouille did Renault.  1965 Matra F3 drivers like Jaussaud and Offenstadt didn't progress (with Matra), Beltoise, Servoz-Gavin and Pescarolo did, and dreams Schlesser had of reaching F1 were scuppered..

[LittleChris]

I'd imagine that age also had something to do with Matras choice of driver ?  In 1966/7, JS was 38/39 whilst JPB was 29/30, and Servoz / Pesca were both 24/25. 

[john winfield]

I'd imagine that age also had something to do with Matras choice of driver ?  In 1966/7, JS was 38/39 whilst JPB was 29/30, and Servoz / Pesca were both 24/25. 

 

I'm sure you're right, Chris.

 

Adam Cooper discussed Schlesser's career with Jabby Crombac, so he writes with some authority.  By 1963/64 "......Schlesser was established as France’s most promising prospect, although the competition was slim."  And maybe that's the point. If talented, younger French drivers arrived on the scene, as they did, it would make sense for Matra, by 1967, to be ruthless and give them the opportunities, not Jo who, when the F1 Matra made its debut in 1968, would be nearly 40.

[Arjan de Roos]

In the book "J-P B, Mon Album Photo" *) there is also a photo of Beltoise in the Tea Pot at Ricard. He states: "A very bad memory. Although Johnny Rives and Jean Todt had warned me that there was something wrong, but until then, raised in righteousness and the respect of others for my father, I had never had to regret sealing my contracts with a handshake. And everything had gone so well, eye to eye, with these great lords that were Sylvain Floirat, Marcel Chassagny and Jean-Luc Lagardère [Matra management], that day, I fell from very high when I discovered the shenanigans, lies, betrayals and more...."

 

*) L'Autodrome Editions