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#101 sss11

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 09:50

Originally posted by ekwah
Rodney

Good to hear from somone who was arround, and involved in racing in Asia..
I can remember seeing you at Shar Alam in about 1969/70.

In your post of 11 March you say that the ex Grice Elfin Mono went to Mike Cook and then
Tony Maw. This is also the info that I have, and makes sence.

My Australian friends, and Eli think that Tony Maw had the ex Garrie Cooper Mono.

Can you confirm that Tony Maw bought the ex Grice car. It would have still had an 1100cc
engine at that time. I believe Tony bought a twin Cam Ford from Garrie Cooper for this car.
Later it was owed by Edward Tan.

As I now own it, I am very interested in it's history, particularly it's time in Asia

ekwah,
Sorry for the long silence. My recollection is - Grice brought the only mono to S'pore in 1968. Garrie had the spaceframe 600 which he sold to Hangkie. rs

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#102 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 09:33

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eli Solomon
[B]Let's flick it around a bit, Brian. I don't know chassis numbers but ownership details should be quite straightforward?

#6801 (the prototype) Original Owner Garrie Cooper (Lotus Ford Twin Cam)
Yes - then Hengkie Iriawan, then I think to Teddy Yip (as the 600B), not Tony Maw....finally Paul Hamilton in Australia (since 1973) ?

#7015 (600B) Original Owner Teddy Yip, Car driven at various times by Albert Poon, Allan Moffatt, Max Stewart, Tony Stewart etc. Currently in the Macau Grand Prix Museum
I think this would be the Prototype 6801

Others in Asia:
Tony Maw Elfin 100 Mono - Alan Grice, Ian Cook, Mike Cook then Tony Maw. Tony also had a 600 which he raced in Macau in 1971



Corrections to the above, Eli.

6801 which I have owned since 1973 was traded by Iriawan to Elfin when he purchased 6910 and sold by Elfin to Tony Maw who later passed it to me. It was never owned by Teddy Yip.

7015 the car in the Macau museum was purchased new by Teddy Yip and always retained by him.

Tony Maw Elfin 100 mono. This was #M6442 originally owned by Bill Pile and now by Graeme Hoinville in Australia. The Alan Grice car was #MB6651 now with Ray Hawke in NZ.

#103 Allen Brown

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 09:39

Thanks Paul. It seems a little late to be saying 'welcome' to you but as this is your first post, it seems appropriate.

Allen

#104 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 09:50

A simple 'Hi Streak' would have sufficed...

Nice to see you in here Paul.

#105 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 10:09

Thanks for the welcome , guys. I have periodically followed your comments but was prompted to fire up as I have been laid up with a bad dose of flu and was relieving my boredom at the computer screen.

There does seem to have been some confusion over the various Elfin transactions between Tony Maw and Garrie but as I have always understood it Garrie took 6801 back from Hengkie Iriawan in trade for the new FVA powered 600C and then did a deal with Tony in which 6801 stayed in Malaysia with Tony (he then worked in KL) while his mono returned to Elfin Sports Cars and was sold in Australia by Garrie. That was certainly the story I got from Tony when I purchased 6801 in 1973 and I seem to recollect that Garrie later confirmed it in subsequent discussion. When I first took the car back to Adelaide for the Van Heusen F2 championship round in '74 it received a big welcome home from both Garrie and his dad Cliff as 'old number one'. That was the beginning of a great association for me with Garrie who was truly one of natures gentlemen.

#106 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 10:18

So how did that lovely little car of Gricey's get to NZ?

I know there's probably a complicated answer to that... but seeing as you're all retired and nursing the flu and there's no joy in walking down by the lake tonight you might just be able to answer anyway.

#107 cosworth bdg

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 06:57

Leo Geoghegan ,in the Birrana 273 Hart /TC still holds the lap record the lap record for the Singapore GP ....................................................................................

#108 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 08:27

"So how did that lovely little car of Gricey's get to NZ?"


Ray, I don't know anything much about the history of the Grice car other than that it was driven in Singapore in 1968 by Mike Cook apparently still in the 1100cc form Grice used it. Although I have seen suggestions that this car was later passed on to Tony Maw and re engined with a Ford twin cam it seems pretty clear that Tony had a different car to that which would mean that there were two monos resident in Singapore or thereabouts in 1968/69. As I said in my earlier post I have always understood that the Maw mono came back to Australia to Elfin in trade for my 600 #6801 when Tony acquired it late in '69.

The Grice car was chassis no MB6651 and it was a MkIIB built and delivered by Elfin in 1966. Tony's car was a much earlier MkI chassis no. M6442 which was built in 1964 for Bill Pile with a Ford twin cam engine. It was later updated in most respects and Tony entered it as a MkIIB. That car has been owned by Graeme Hoinville for many years and he still uses it periodically in our Australian historic events.

#109 David McKinney

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 11:41

Originally posted by Ray Bell
So how did that lovely little car of Gricey's get to NZ?

Ray Hawke bought it while he was stationed in Malaysia, and took it to NZ with him on his return (in the 1980s, IIRC)

#110 Lifew12

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 16:18

hello all,

Just spent an interested half hour reading through this thread, and thought i would share a recent communication that I received with you as it may be of interest.

As Editor of an F1 Website (updatef1.com - forgive me for advertising) I write features for our magazine section on a wide range of subjects, and recently published a piece on the 'First malaysian Grand prix'; as this is not an area I know a lot about, it drew largely on the aforementioned article in Motor Sport, some books I have and references on the net. A few weeks later i was quite surprised, and charmed, to recieve the following e-mail:


Subject: The original malaysian gp
Message: Your article on the "Original Malaysia GP" had some errors in it.
The 1972 Malasian GP was not run in Singapore but at a circuit called Batu
Tiga not far from the capital Kuala Lumpur and it was not won by Max Stewart
but by Sonny Rajah in a March 712M.
Vern Schuppan was second in March 722.
Your author 3 can contact me for further details on other relevant facts.

Sonny Rajah.


Needless to say I did contact Mr Rajah, and I intend to speak to him further with regard to producing another feature on racing in that part of the world all those years ago.

I will keep you updated with any further developments!

Regards,
Steve

#111 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 22:03

Why not get him to post on here?

I mean, Paul Hamilton did, and he raced against Sonny a few times when he came to Australia... why not?

Anyone's welcome here, after all...

#112 Lifew12

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 09:59

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Why not get him to post on here?

I mean, Paul Hamilton did, and he raced against Sonny a few times when he came to Australia... why not?

Anyone's welcome here, after all...


I will ask him....

#113 cosworth bdg

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 01:48

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Why not get him to post on here?

I mean, Paul Hamilton did, and he raced against Sonny a few times when he came to Australia... why not?

Anyone's welcome here, after all...

He is a resident of this country ..............

#114 Angus Lamont

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Posted 10 July 2006 - 06:26

Hi, I'm a new member.
Refering to the Brabham driven by John Macdonald in the late 60's and early 70's I can confirm that it was a Brabham BT10 and that it was the ex Cosworth "mule" used for the development of the FVA. Shomac Racing (John Macdonald & Fred Scholle) bought the car from Bill Jones who, in turn, had bought it from Cosworth. The car came with FVA #002 and Hewland FT-200 #35. The car was never uprated by John so any press reports that talk about BT18's and BT23's are incorrect. At this time I was helping John Mac prepare his cars and know this vehicle well. When the formula changed from 4-valve to 2-valve in 1971 we replaced the FVA with a fuel-injected Vegantune Twin-cam and craned the FVA into a Lotus 47. The Brabham is still in John Macdonald's hands and Eli Solomon and I have written a full history of the car together with all its race results. Please let me know if anyone wants a copy of this.
Currently I'm trying to put together John Macdonald's race history and if anyone has any info about the Selangor GP of 1968 (date, grid, results etc) or the Selangor and Malaysian GP's of 1972 (dates, grid, race results, etc) I would very much appreciate hearing from them. The stupid thing is that I was at the 1972 meetings!

Cheers,

Angus

#115 sss11

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:07

Jimmy, I think you might amend that engine listed for the Elfin that won in 1968...

Paul Hamilton would dearly love to be able to fit a 'Cosworth' engine in it, but Garrie only had a twin-cam Ford (as in Lotus Cortina, Lotus Elan) fitted. That was the second appearance, IIRC, of the Elfin 600.

Now I've got 1967...

Australian in the event was Brian Foley with a Mini, which shed 120lbs apparently with the fitting of alloy doors, bonnet and bootlid and perspex windows. It easily won the touring car race and took out the lap record in 2:26.3. Again it was the Thompson Road circuit.

For the Grand Prix, Foley fitted a new head gasket and filled the fuel tanks, having ascertained that he could do the 180-mile distance without a stop.

Seow led away from pole in his Merlyn twin-cam from Lee Han Seng, Poon in the 23B, Foley's Mini, Macdonald's 1500cc Cooper Ford, Chong Boon Sen (23B) and Bond in a Le Grand 1600 twin-cam. In the 36-car field 19 were openwheelers, nine were sports cars, seven sedans.

Around lap 15 the previous year's winner touched wheels with a slower car and was out. Heathcote then spun his 1600 Brabham in 'The Snakes' and Chong put his 23B into a ditch. At lap 20 Macdonald pitted low on oil and (I think) retired. Ten laps later Wyllie's 23 also dropped out, having been in the first four. Arsenio Laurel was at this time third in a Lotus 41 after starting 23rd on the grid.

Foley's planned non-stop run was interrupted by a flat tyre and both John Harwood (Lola Ford) and Phillip Seow (Elva BMW) went past him. A charge to the end by the Mini driver saw him alongside the Elva at the finish, but with the longer Elva nose getting it fifth place.

1. Rodney Seow (Merlyn twin-cam 1600) (2:13.4)
2. Albert Poon (Lotus 23B twin-cam)
3. Arsenio Laurel (Lotus 41)
4. John Harwood (Lola Ford)
5. Phillip Seow (Elva BMW)
6. Brian Foley (Mini Cooper S) (2:24.3)

Fastest lap and new lap record: Rodney Seow, 2:13.4

I would say that there were improvements to the circuit in the year since Cusack set his lap record, both Seow and Foley having such dramatic improvements over Cusack's and Harvey's times. Then again, it might have been tyres...


A minor correction. My brother Philip was driving my Elva 7 (Coventry Climax 1147 cc) unlike the one I drove Elva 7s - Nerus BMW in the sports car race (belonging to Mr. Stanly Leong who would occasionally run it in the GP.There's a photo of the Elva7s followed by the Elva 7 on page 137 in Eli Solomon's "Snakes & Devils" A History of the Singapore Grand Prix....... Rodney Seow

#116 sss11

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Posted 06 September 2009 - 05:20

Jimmy, I think you might amend that engine listed for the Elfin that won in 1968...

Paul Hamilton would dearly love to be able to fit a 'Cosworth' engine in it, but Garrie only had a twin-cam Ford (as in Lotus Cortina, Lotus Elan) fitted. That was the second appearance, IIRC, of the Elfin 600.

Now I've got 1967...

Australian in the event was Brian Foley with a Mini, which shed 120lbs apparently with the fitting of alloy doors, bonnet and bootlid and perspex windows. It easily won the touring car race and took out the lap record in 2:26.3. Again it was the Thompson Road circuit.

For the Grand Prix, Foley fitted a new head gasket and filled the fuel tanks, having ascertained that he could do the 180-mile distance without a stop.

Seow led away from pole in his Merlyn twin-cam from Lee Han Seng, Poon in the 23B, Foley's Mini, Macdonald's 1500cc Cooper Ford, Chong Boon Sen (23B) and Bond in a Le Grand 1600 twin-cam. In the 36-car field 19 were openwheelers, nine were sports cars, seven sedans.

Around lap 15 the previous year's winner touched wheels with a slower car and was out. Heathcote then spun his 1600 Brabham in 'The Snakes' and Chong put his 23B into a ditch. At lap 20 Macdonald pitted low on oil and (I think) retired. Ten laps later Wyllie's 23 also dropped out, having been in the first four. Arsenio Laurel was at this time third in a Lotus 41 after starting 23rd on the grid.

Foley's planned non-stop run was interrupted by a flat tyre and both John Harwood (Lola Ford) and Phillip Seow (Elva BMW) went past him. A charge to the end by the Mini driver saw him alongside the Elva at the finish, but with the longer Elva nose getting it fifth place.

1. Rodney Seow (Merlyn twin-cam 1600) (2:13.4)
2. Albert Poon (Lotus 23B twin-cam)
3. Arsenio Laurel (Lotus 41)
4. John Harwood (Lola Ford)
5. Phillip Seow (Elva BMW)
6. Brian Foley (Mini Cooper S) (2:24.3)

Fastest lap and new lap record: Rodney Seow, 2:13.4

I would say that there were improvements to the circuit in the year since Cusack set his lap record, both Seow and Foley having such dramatic improvements over Cusack's and Harvey's times. Then again, it might have been tyres...


I witnessed Han Seng's crash with the ERA, it happened right in front of me.
Correction:- Philip was driving my Elva 7 - Coventry Climax 1150 cc.
I drove Stanley Leong's Elva 7s - BMW Nerus/Ford Lotus in the sports car event 1967 & 1968.

It's all there in Eli Solomon's Snakes & Devils released last year. I hear another book is coming out shortly.

Rodney Seow


#117 giffo

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 01:12

:up: Eli Solomon, Author of Snakes & Devils plus the Rewind publication

I had the pleasure of meeting and welcoming Eli & his friend Doc to my home this last weekend here in Perth after having conversed with him many times of the last several years. Eli & Doc came here for the All British Car Day out at GinGin plus to chase up other information for his Rewind publication.
For any of you who may be interested (even if only slightly) of the history of the Singapore G.P. then buy, borrow or steal to get a copy of the Snakes & Devils book.
I’m no expert, not informed, certainly wasn’t there and don’t have access to the information that a lot of you here take for granted and am essentially a nobody but due to conversing with Eli and my friendship with Singapore’s own Sonny Rajah I wanted to get a copy of this book when it was released. Due to my own laziness and not following up this never happened. Thanks to Eli he brought with him a copy of which I now do have in my possession. It’s big, it’s thick, it’s heavy, it’s very pictorial, nicely laid out and very well made. For someone like myself who is rather fussy on books, doesn’t buy a large amount of new books anyhow and would normally spend my limited budget on keeping my car on the track I’m very happy with it and I would suggest so would anyone else who may consider this to be added to their own collection.

This may come across as blowing a bit of smoke in a particular direction but it was a for me it was pleasure to spend a fair amount of time with a couple of blokes from an area afar but with close Australian ties who were both so enthusiastic about their passion for old car both racing and domestic cars from a bygone era.
As a result I felt a post here was probably the best way I could express my thanks to you both

Giffo


#118 corvette299

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 05:55

:up: Eli Solomon, Author of Snakes & Devils plus the Rewind publication

I had the pleasure of meeting and welcoming Eli & his friend Doc to my home this last weekend here in Perth after having conversed with him many times of the last several years. Eli & Doc came here for the All British Car Day out at GinGin plus to chase up other information for his Rewind publication.
For any of you who may be interested (even if only slightly) of the history of the Singapore G.P. then buy, borrow or steal to get a copy of the Snakes & Devils book.
I’m no expert, not informed, certainly wasn’t there and don’t have access to the information that a lot of you here take for granted and am essentially a nobody but due to conversing with Eli and my friendship with Singapore’s own Sonny Rajah I wanted to get a copy of this book when it was released. Due to my own laziness and not following up this never happened. Thanks to Eli he brought with him a copy of which I now do have in my possession. It’s big, it’s thick, it’s heavy, it’s very pictorial, nicely laid out and very well made. For someone like myself who is rather fussy on books, doesn’t buy a large amount of new books anyhow and would normally spend my limited budget on keeping my car on the track I’m very happy with it and I would suggest so would anyone else who may consider this to be added to their own collection.

This may come across as blowing a bit of smoke in a particular direction but it was a for me it was pleasure to spend a fair amount of time with a couple of blokes from an area afar but with close Australian ties who were both so enthusiastic about their passion for old car both racing and domestic cars from a bygone era.
As a result I felt a post here was probably the best way I could express my thanks to you both

Giffo





hi

can anybody tell me how to identify hengkie iriawan 1970 elfin 600c i bought a car it looks like his car its got a fva cosworth hart engine in it

corvette299

#119 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 07:57

hi

can anybody tell me how to identify hengkie iriawan 1970 elfin 600c i bought a car it looks like his car its got a fva cosworth hart engine in it

corvette299


Henkgie's Elfin 600C was chassis number 6910 which would be recorded on the chassis plate fixed either to the frame on the instrument panel support or on the alloy front bulkhead panel. If you could post some photos and tell us where the car you have has been in recent times it would assist identify it. The most recent reliable information I have about this car was when it was owned by Joey Bundalian, a Phillipino who drove it in the 1971 Macau GP and finished 6th. There is a photo of it at Macau on page 117 of Philip Newsome's book 'Colour and Noise' which covers the history of the Macau GP. 6910 was the only 600 built with an FVA engine and, despite the efforts of several people to locate it, your post is the first I have heard of it for many years. Just about every other 600 built has already been accounted for and it would be quite exciting for Elfin enthusiasts if this long missing car were to emerge from hiding. As a long time 600 owner I would be very keen to help identify the car and trace its history if you could post more information or pm that to me.

Paul Hamilton

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#120 David McKinney

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 08:42

Just checked my listings and find that the ex-Iriawan Elfin 600 was, last I heard, owned by an Australian called Paul Hamilton :)

But that wasn't the 600C...

Last I heard of that one was that it was under a Toyota Celica bodyshell

Incidentally, did Joey Bundalian also have two 600s? I have him with a so-called 600B in 1969-71, and Iriawan had his 600C in the first two of those years

#121 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 11:32

Just checked my listings and find that the ex-Iriawan Elfin 600 was, last I heard, owned by an Australian called Paul Hamilton :)

But that wasn't the 600C...

Last I heard of that one was that it was under a Toyota Celica bodyshell

Incidentally, did Joey Bundalian also have two 600s? I have him with a so-called 600B in 1969-71, and Iriawan had his 600C in the first two of those years



Just to clarify the story, Dave :

As you probably know I have owned the prototype Elfin 600 s/n 6801 since 1973 and still use it in Aussie historic events. That car is the first of two 600s which Hengkie Iriawan owned. He purchased it from Garrie Cooper (apparently via PH Wong) following Cooper's win in the 1968 Singapore GP and used it later that year to win the Malaysian GP and run second at Macau before trading it back in mid 1969 on a new 600C with a Cosworth FVA engine. Hengkie ran the 600C at Macau late in 1969 and then Pukekohe (and perhaps other NZ events ?) early in 1970 before taking it back up north for the 1970 Singapore GP. I don't know just when he disposed of the 600C but it did not appear on the grid at Macau late in 1970 and was in Bundalian's hands the following year.

As far as I am aware Henkie's 600C was the only 600 Joey Bundalian had but do you have some record of him in a 600 earlier than that?

The reports of the 600C buried under a Toyota Celica body shell which emerged some years ago turned out to be false. At that time I was seriously looking for the Iriawan 600C (s/n 6910) and followed a trail to the Toyota which then lived in Malaysia. However, I was beaten to it by George Goodare who purchased it sight unseen in the belief that it was the 600C. Unfortunately, when it arrived back here in Sydney he found that the Elfin unerpinning the Celica shell was a 622 which Garrie had sold to the Phillipines in the early 1970's. Elfin 622's are not as well sought after as a good 600 and George was more than a little disappointed but the 622 has now been nicely restored with its original Toyota engine which makes it a bit different to the more usual Lotus twin cam powered cars.

If you have any reliable information on the Iriawan 600C post Joey Bundalian I would be most interested to hear it. I am certainly very keen to hear more about the car corvette299 has purchased!!

Paul H

#122 David McKinney

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 14:02

To correct the 600C's early appearances: first race was at Pukekohe 21/9/69, second race Bay Park 4/10/69, third race Macau 16/11/69

And thanks for quashing the Toyota Celica myth

But you've thrown me on the earlier Bundalian appearances. My notes say he was an entrant in the 1969 Macau GP but I don't know where I got that from. He's not listed in Colour and Noise or mentioned in the Autosport report, or Motoring News, and I don't have the relevant RCN - the other likely source.

#123 corvette299

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 05:29

To correct the 600C's early appearances: first race was at Pukekohe 21/9/69, second race Bay Park 4/10/69, third race Macau 16/11/69

And thanks for quashing the Toyota Celica myth

But you've thrown me on the earlier Bundalian appearances. My notes say he was an entrant in the 1969 Macau GP but I don't know where I got that from. He's not listed in Colour and Noise or mentioned in the Autosport report, or Motoring News, and I don't have the relevant RCN - the other likely source.


paul i will try and post an image soon i am reading how to do it now wish me luck

corvette299

#124 corvette299

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 06:06

paul i will try and post an image soon i am reading how to do it now wish me luck

corvette299

i am having no luck yet with posting it

can i send it to somebodies email and they can put it up for me

corvette299

#125 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 08:20

Here 'tis.

Posted Image


Edited by Andrew Fellowes, 19 May 2010 - 08:46.


#126 corvette299

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 08:32

thanks andrew

picture looks great

corvette 299

#127 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 08:48

You are very welcome, I have just resized it as it was a bit too big.

Good Luck! Andrew

#128 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 11:41

Corvette... where on earth did you find the car? Where are you located now?

You've got some seriously inquisitive minds abuzz as they wonder if this is really the car that's been missing for some thirty-odd years.

#129 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 23:44

paul i will try and post an image soon i am reading how to do it now wish me luck

corvette299


Andrew has sent me you photos, Corvette, which has enabled me to zoom in for a closer look.

The engine is a Hart 416B twin cam so Hengkie's FVA is missing which is no great surprise and there is nothing Elfin left of the bodywork!! However, what can be seen of the frame and suspension etc are all very 600 and the FT200 transmission, wheels, rear suspension uprights and, in particular, the larger than normal fuel tanks are all consistent with the Iriawan car (s/n 6910).

Can we have more detail please? Some body off photos showing the front suspension (the 600C's had a unique type of fabricated front upright), cockpit, instrument panel and other detail particularly the chassis plate if still fitted would help. The most important aid to tracing the car's origins, however, will be its history and what link that might provide back to the Iriawan car which was last heard of in the hands of Joey Bundalian at Macau in 1971. Your car looks like it has had some use in the past 20 years or so and the signage carried indicates that may have been in Oz. Where is it now and where has it been? More information needed!!!

Paul Hamilton

#130 corvette299

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 01:28

Andrew has sent me you photos, Corvette, which has enabled me to zoom in for a closer look.

The engine is a Hart 416B twin cam so Hengkie's FVA is missing which is no great surprise and there is nothing Elfin left of the bodywork!! However, what can be seen of the frame and suspension etc are all very 600 and the FT200 transmission, wheels, rear suspension uprights and, in particular, the larger than normal fuel tanks are all consistent with the Iriawan car (s/n 6910).

Can we have more detail please? Some body off photos showing the front suspension (the 600C's had a unique type of fabricated front upright), cockpit, instrument panel and other detail particularly the chassis plate if still fitted would help. The most important aid to tracing the car's origins, however, will be its history and what link that might provide back to the Iriawan car which was last heard of in the hands of Joey Bundalian at Macau in 1971. Your car looks like it has had some use in the past 20 years or so and the signage carried indicates that may have been in Oz. Where is it now and where has it been? More information needed!!!

Paul Hamilton


paul

i have a few more pictures but some are a bit fussy its not pulled apart yet maby in a few weeks i can take some of it apart
its still in my friends garage and i am away a lot overseas
i will get it to my warehouse in the next couple of months
i am to busy at the moment to organise anything
i live in sydney
i thought most of the winning cars had hart engines maby its the original and been modified by hart
and put back in
is there any pictures around of it in original livery 69 on

john



#131 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 03:31

paul

i have a few more pictures but some are a bit fussy its not pulled apart yet maby in a few weeks i can take some of it apart
its still in my friends garage and i am away a lot overseas
i will get it to my warehouse in the next couple of months
i am to busy at the moment to organise anything
i live in sydney
i thought most of the winning cars had hart engines maby its the original and been modified by hart
and put back in
is there any pictures around of it in original livery 69 on

john


I have now seen your fuzzy photos which confirm that the engine in the car is a fuel injected Hart 416B based on a 2 valve Lotus twin cam. Those engines were very good and were used by most people in Australian F2 events in the early 1970's but are quite different to the 4 valve Cosworth FVA engine which was originally fitted to the Henkie Iriawan 600C. It is definitely not Hengkie's original engine but much of the other detail looks like it could possibly be the Iriawan car. Your fuzzy photos seem to show that it has 600C style fabricated front uprights and as mentioned in my previous post there are other details, most importantly the fuel tanks, which are consistent with the Iriawan car.

Whatever the details of the car's current specification, to confirm its provenance you will need to have detail of its full history showing the linkage to the Iriawan car. Any information you have on where the car has been and what it has been used for is therefore very important. Can you tell us anything more about that sort of detail?

I live quite close to Sydney and would love to have a look at the car when you have time for that. I have a few black and white photos of the car in Hengkie's hand which I can show you if we can get together. I will send you a pm with my contact details.

Paul Hamilton

#132 Angus Lamont

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 03:43

Re Joey Bundalian at the 1969 Macau GP. I suspect that he was entered but was a DNS. I recall that he came to John Macdonald asking for help with some serious gearbox trouble and that John was unable to help.

Angus Lamont

#133 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 05:50

Re Joey Bundalian at the 1969 Macau GP. I suspect that he was entered but was a DNS. I recall that he came to John Macdonald asking for help with some serious gearbox trouble and that John was unable to help.

Angus Lamont


There is no mention of Joey in the 1969 reports and grid sheet in 'Colour and Noise', Angus. Do you recall what type of car he may have had there?

Paul Hamilton

#134 David McKinney

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 06:17

There is no mention of Joey in the 1969 reports and grid sheet in 'Colour and Noise', Angus. Do you recall what type of car he may have had there?

Paul Hamilton

My own notes (whatever their source) called it a 600B

#135 corvette299

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 09:48

My own notes (whatever their source) called it a 600B

where would i get some color pictures of hengkies 600c
so i can compare it to this car

john

#136 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 10:11

My own notes (whatever their source) called it a 600B


The problem is, Dave, which one!!!

Elfin records show that, by the time of the 1969 Macau GP, 10 type 600's had been built (my own prototype 600, 7 type 600B's and two 600Cs). We know that one of the 600C's was at Macau in Hengkie Iriawan's hands and my own car was then owned by Tony Maw who, although he was living in Malaysia and had won the Malaysian GP a month earlier, did not run at Macau that year. There are pretty reliable records showing that the other eight cars were all still in Australia at that time and I simply don't think it possible that Joey Bundalian ever owned a 600 other than the 600C he ultimately bought from Hengkie. If he did turn up at Macau in 1969 with an Elfin of any kind I would suggest that it was not a 600 but either a mono or some earlier model but then we still don't know which one!!

Corvette299 and I had quite a long chat today and I hope to have the opportunity to see his car some time soon. It does seem increasingly likely, however, that it is, in fact, the long lost Iriawan car s/n 6910!!! :clap:

#137 David McKinney

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 11:09

Bundalian could have leased Maw's car, or intended to, but that's only a guess

#138 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 13:07

Bundalian could have leased Maw's car, or intended to, but that's only a guess

I don't think that is at all likely, David. Tony maintained a pretty comprehensive scrapbook which I had custody of for some time following my purchase of 6801 from him. Although I gave it back to him some years ago I well recall that it covered his use of the car in some detail and I copied relevant sections for my own records. There was no mention of any lease arrangement and I doubt that anyone but Tony drove the car during his ownership.

The source of your note seems to be something of a mystery and it seems to me that, if Joey Bundalian was in Macau at all in 1969, it is unlikely that he had an Elfin with him. If he did I am quite certain that it was not a 600 as I can account for all that had then been built and the only one in Macau in 1969 was 6910 driven by Hengkie Iriawan.

#139 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 13:20

And Maw could have entered, found himself unable to run at that meeting, and made other arrangements...

Again, photos would prove a lot.

*edit* posted after Paul's last post, but before seeing it posted.

Edited by Ray Bell, 20 May 2010 - 13:50.


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#140 David McKinney

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 14:10

The source of your note seems to be something of a mystery

To me too. One possibility is that the info came from Graeme Lawrence, who was a regular competitor in that part of the world at the time, or from one of the Schollum brothers, who were based in Singapore and also passed on info. And no, of course I didn't make a note of where the info came from :well:


#141 Michael Oliver

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 16:52

I hope this will be directly relevant to the ongoing discussion but also it may be of general interest to those researching the history of cars which competed in the Singapore GP. This is a *goldmine* of a site I stumbled across when Googling the name of a driver. It has lots of thumbnails, which you can view in a larger size, but which unfortunately have a watermark on them. However, I have no doubt that, if you wanted the photos for your collection, they will relieve you of some cash and provide you with a scan or a print!

Picture Archives Singapore

This link should take you to a search page - simply type in 'Grand Prix' and it should bring up a huge amount (hundreds, literally) of images.

Quite remarkably, the photos go back to 1952 and include both motorcycle, saloon, sports and single-seater cars. From the late 1960s, a lot of the shots are in colour too. Some of the photos have had quite detailed captions added to them - I don't know by whom - giving precise information about chassis numbers and/or ownership before and after the person in the photo. If it is correct, it could prove to be quite useful I suspect to the likes of Allen Brown, Chris Townsend, Brian Miller etc. You can also search by marque name or driver surname.

I'm hoping no-one has posted about this before, but I'd actually be surprised if they haven't as I found it quite easily...

For the Elfin enthusiasts among us, one particular shot may be of interest, taken in 1969 of Iriawan's car being worked on (by Garrie Cooper) in the paddock. It has the following caption:

"GARRIE COOPER HAD BEEN FAIRLY SUCCESSFUL WITH HIS MARKETING IN AUSTRALIA AND NO FEWER THAN FIVE ELFINS HAD BEEN ENTERED FOR THE SINGAPORE EVENT IN 1969. THE PHOTO SHOWS HENKIE IRIAWAN SITTING DOWN IN THE FAR LEFT OF THE PHOTO AS GARRIE COOPER'S ORIGINAL ELFIN 600 PROTOTYPE, THE 1968 GRAND PRIX WINNING CAR, GETS FETTLED BY LOH YAP TING (IN WHITE ATTIRE). THE FOREIGN ENTRANTS HAD ACCESS TO SEVERAL WORKSHOPS ON THE ISLAND IF THEY NEEDED SERIOUS WORK DONE ON THEIR CARS, FEDERATED MOTORS AND BORNEO MOTORS GENERALLY BEING THE PREFERRED WORKSHOPS."

Sorry about the caps, all their captions are in upper case. To find this photo, just put Iriawan in the search box.

Another caption to a photo of Iriawan driving a Pallisser says:

"THE PALLISER WAS A COPY OF THE BRABHAM BT21 CHASSIS," RECALLS VERN SCHUPPAN, A VISITOR TO THE EVENT IN 1971, INVITED BY HENKIE IRIAWAN TO DRIVE HIS ELFIN 600C, WHICH VERN RECALLS, WAS "A NON-RUNNER."

And finally, a caption to a photo of an ex-Rondel BT36 Brabham reads:

"THERE WERE A COUPLE OF NEW NAMES IN THE ENTRY LIST FOR 1972. RIKI OHKUBO OF JAPAN ENTERED A BRABHAM ALFA WHILE JOEY BUNDALIAN OF THE PHILIPPINES HAD HENKIE IRIAWAN'S ELFIN 600C. PETER CHOW ENTERED A BRABHAM BT21 FROM HONG KONG AND JOHN MACDONALD HAD HIS BRABHAM BT36 RONDEL, THE EX-GRAHAM HILL CAR (PICTURED WITH TUDOR SPONSORSHIP FAIRLY EVIDENT). THE RODEL WAS PURCHASED DIRECTLY FROM RON DENNIS IN THE UNITED KINGDOM.."

Not being familiar with Elfin history, I don't know if any of this helps or hinders but I thought I'd put it out there anyway...

Michael

#142 Angus Lamont

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 01:46

There is no mention of Joey in the 1969 reports and grid sheet in 'Colour and Noise', Angus. Do you recall what type of car he may have had there?

Paul Hamilton


Don't know what car Joey was driving but I distinctly remember his coming to the pokey little garage that we were using and getting John Macdonald to go and look at his car.

#143 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:09

Michael thanks for posting that link! Nice photos and of course for me the one of JM in the BT36.

Thanks, Andrew

#144 Angus Lamont

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 10:13

I've just checked and discovered that Joey Bundalian came to John Macdonald's garage at the 1970 Macau GP not the 1969 Macau GP as I mentioned earlier. Apologies to all concerned.

#145 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 12:04

When did Iriawan die? Is it possible he still owned the Elfin at that time?

It seems that nobody has any knowledge of anyone actually owning it outside of him until this time...

#146 ReWind

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 17:46

Rewind publication

:eek:
Maybe I should ask Twin Window to open a new thread called “Name theft – has your nick been nicked?”


#147 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 02:44

:eek:
Maybe I should ask Twin Window to open a new thread called “Name theft – has your nick been nicked?”


Sorry to have moved the subject a bit away from the Singapore event where you started but the personalities and cars at each of these major Asian events in the 60's and 70's were often the same and you did open up an opportunity to locate and identify what seems likely to be confirmed as a long sought after car from those times and places (Singapore included!!!). Much appreciated :clap:

#148 john medley

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 07:01

Paul, I agree:terrific stuff.

To shift the focus back 20 or so years, any photos/info on one memorable car which had a Fiat 500 chassis(almost like a then current Cooper, so 4 wheel independent suspension..) into which Neil Moncreif? inserted a Ford V8 engine, a monoposto body not unlike George Reed's Monoskate , and the parts of so many other cars that they called it the Kudensay(because allegedly they couldnt say what it actually was)?

#149 David McKinney

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 11:29

AFAIK, the Kudensay first appeared in 1949 with a tubular chassis, Fiat 500 ifs and Ford V8 engine, but was wrecked in the 1950 Johore GP. It must have been rebuilt - or was it a Mk2? - because Moncrieff (Kudensay) was a competitor in the 1951 Gap hillclimb

From 1951-55 Moncrieff raced a Cooper-JAP 1100, and I have no further info on the Kudensay

I have a vague feeling I have seen a photo of the beast - I would have thought in AMS, but you've presumably checked that esteemed organ?

#150 john medley

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 00:32

Thanks, David. Re pic in AMS, yes there was, but no I havent checked it recently. And thank you for helping me spell Moncrieiff