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Pete Geoghegan


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#101 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 03:22

To get around the insurance companies' dislike of 'GT' designations in those times?

That's why other designations started to show up in numbers.

As far as I remember XR GTs had the GT designation. They were never a 500 whatever but a Fairmont base.
I feel this car is a mock up. Not the one that Garry Watson had that as I said made more money at auction recently

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#102 275 GTB-4

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 06:04

Point of Clarification...I am not in any way associated with this car for sale nor do I know whether it is the genuine item...just thought that if it was the genuine item, then it would be of interest to TNFers :blush:

#103 Ian G

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:19

No worries Mick,your on the outside of the glass,the car would have an interesting history if the speedo is also genuine.

#104 Librules

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 18:15

It seemed way underpriced to possibly be the real thing. I just googled the seller and found an on-line listing for the car. It confirms in the ad that it's a replica and also states the car is a 3 speed auto...

#105 275 GTB-4

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 21:31

It seemed way underpriced to possibly be the real thing. I just googled the seller and found an on-line listing for the car. It confirms in the ad that it's a replica and also states the car is a 3 speed auto...


Ouch!! the perils of shooting stuff through glass :rotfl: at least we can remember a time when Ian and Leo shared a drive...

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 13 November 2012 - 21:35.


#106 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 21:47

It seemed way underpriced to possibly be the real thing. I just googled the seller and found an on-line listing for the car. It confirms in the ad that it's a replica and also states the car is a 3 speed auto...

Mockups, tribute cars whatever can be confusing. And more now than in period. Not just racecars ofcourse though I know an XY GT that was painted in Moffat livery that now claims to be a Ph3!!
And fake GTs, fake GTS, Fake XU1 as well as any other classic or hero car are rife. Some are passed off as real, some well,,,, 6cyl GTs are a little hard.
Though I do know a 327GTS that has run a 186 auto for over 30 years as the owner thought the v8 was too expensive to run!
Also ofcourse genuine racecars were often NOT what they were supposed to be eg LC XU1s updated to LJ, XA coupes raced up until XC E38s that became E49s. LH SLRs that evolved into 4 door A9Xs etc etc
And in more recent times VP supercars that morphed into VS, EBs morphed into EL etc

#107 Ian G

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 22:57

Yeah,people are creative when $ are involved.Many of the Falcon V-8(forget the model no.) manuals that the NSW Police had around 1970 were purchased at auction and rebadged as GT's,they would still be out there somewhere.
"Gasoline", the car show on the shopping channel in Oz.,just had a programme on cars found stored in a large old chicken shed on a Farm.Amazing collection Falcon GT's,Xu1's,L-34,A9X,Chargers etc.,almost every variety of muscle car of the 1970's,worth a small fortune when they go to auction.

#108 Paul Newby

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:49

This XR Falcon is definitely a replica. It was built up by a mob called C.T AUTO Restorations in Peakhurst (Sydney), and I think they may own it - its on their Facebook page.. They specialise in XR to XY Falcon GTs, both real and replicas.



#109 DanTra2858

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:10

Yeah,people are creative when $ are involved.Many of the Falcon V-8(forget the model no.) manuals that the NSW Police had around 1970 were purchased at auction and rebadged as GT's,they would still be out there somewhere.
"Gasoline", the car show on the shopping channel in Oz.,just had a programme on cars found stored in a large old chicken shed on a Farm.Amazing collection Falcon GT's,Xu1's,L-34,A9X,Chargers etc.,almost every variety of muscle car of the 1970's,worth a small fortune when they go to auction.


Gee I feel let down, NO CORTINA :rotfl:

#110 Ellis French

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:58



Quote Lee
As far as I remember XR GTs had the GT designation. They were never a 500 whatever but a Fairmont base.


Lee
XR Gt's never had GT designation. They had a model number which equated to a GT on the ID plate....18637 or 18638 depending whether built in 67 or 68
and JG 33 xxxxxx indicating GT 4 door stamped into radiator support panel
They did have GT badges on grill and back pillars and bootlid (from a Mustang)

They also had Fairlane Charcoal coloured seats not Fairmont Black

#111 eldougo

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:12

Pete just getting a good start in the Castrol Mustang at Calder 1971/72 ?
Copyright Tom Foolery Poster.
Uploaded with ImageShack.usPosted Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Edited by eldougo, 15 November 2012 - 08:56.


#112 Librules

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:26

OT, but here's a bit on that chook shed by the owner......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NoKXZWIMqU&feature=related

#113 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:30

Quote Lee
As far as I remember XR GTs had the GT designation. They were never a 500 whatever but a Fairmont base.


Lee
XR Gt's never had GT designation. They had a model number which equated to a GT on the ID plate....18637 or 18638 depending whether built in 67 or 68
and JG 33 xxxxxx indicating GT 4 door stamped into radiator support panel
They did have GT badges on grill and back pillars and bootlid (from a Mustang)

They also had Fairlane Charcoal coloured seats not Fairmont Black

I actually had a gold one here today. That had black trim and JG33. And ofcourse too old for a compliance plate. Most of the trim and equipment is Fairmont level, as were all GTs.
I have owned four XA GTs, in the early 80s and the most I sold one for was $5000. Several GTSs. And all worth a LOT more now. Ofcourse as we all did you have to sell some to buy more. Though at one stage I did own a 307 manual HK GTS,an XA GT and a 770 Charger. Love to have that lot now.

#114 Ian G

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:43

OT, but here's a bit on that chook shed by the owner......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NoKXZWIMqU&feature=related


Yeah,thats it but portrayed as an obscure find in the middle of nowhere on the TV,and there is a Cortina or 2 there.

Your link didn't work Lib.

Oz Muscle Car Museum.

and

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Edited by Ian G, 14 November 2012 - 10:51.


#115 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 22:33

Yeah,thats it but portrayed as an obscure find in the middle of nowhere on the TV,and there is a Cortina or 2 there.

Your link didn't work Lib.

Oz Muscle Car Museum.

and

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

That collection has been on here a few times. Though you think some work on the shed would be in order. Expensive cars in a semi open shed? covered in dust. Hardly the ideal storage.

#116 Ian G

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 22:41

Yeah,i've read about the Muscle Car Museum in Brisbane last year but didn't realize they were stored in such poor conditions,i never put the two together until i saw the U-tube video.The guy on Gasoline made out it was a Barn find at a secret location in the middle of nowhere,wandering around on this farm like he was lost with no mention of the "Muscle Car Museum" or the owner,or it was located at Narangba,he inspected the cars with just himself and a cameraman.Anyway getting OT,back to Pete.

Edited by Ian G, 14 November 2012 - 22:46.


#117 Paul Newby

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 00:22

Yeah,i've read about the Muscle Car Museum in Brisbane last year but didn't realize they were stored in such poor conditions,i never put the two together until i saw the U-tube video.The guy on Gasoline made out it was a Barn find at a secret location in the middle of nowhere,wandering around on this farm like he was lost with no mention of the "Muscle Car Museum" or the owner,or it was located at Narangba,he inspected the cars with just himself and a cameraman.Anyway getting OT,back to Pete.


I've seen photos of this chook shed collection in the pages of Australian Muscle Car magazine about 8 or 9 years ago. I don't think much has changed in the interim, except that nothing much appears to have changed. He doesn't appear to be too precious about his muscle cars which is a refreshing change - he didn't buy them when they were gilt-edged investments...



#118 seldo

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:53

I've seen photos of this chook shed collection in the pages of Australian Muscle Car magazine about 8 or 9 years ago. I don't think much has changed in the interim, except that nothing much appears to have changed. He doesn't appear to be too precious about his muscle cars which is a refreshing change - he didn't buy them when they were gilt-edged investments...

I've been there and seen them a few years ago....
Very disappointing in that they are just jammed in there, dirty and dusty and 'stored' rather than 'displayed'. Most are just as-purchased with a few scars and doubtful modifications, and they are so tightly packed that you can really only walk past the front of them. But still - a massive collection of sought-after toys, although there were none that I would call "pristine"

#119 275 GTB-4

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:29

Anyway getting OT, back to Pete.


Ouch!! the perils of shooting stuff through glass :rotfl: at least pheasants are shot outside before they end up under-glass....lets remember a time when Ian and Leo shared a drive??? (maybe??)

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#120 Ellis French

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:29

I actually had a gold one here today. That had black trim and JG33. And ofcourse too old for a compliance plate. Most of the trim and equipment is Fairmont level, as were all GTs.




The trim may have been replaced.
The original charcoal trim looks almost black with a greyish hue. Its the material from Fairlanes not Fairmonts
and is no longer available so most have been retrimmed with black.
XT's had the Fairmont black.


#121 GMACKIE

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:52

...lets remember a time when Ian and Leo shared a drive??? (maybe??)

Pete and Leo teamed up for Bathurst in 1965. With some help from some other brothers - Grace Brothers - they dressed up, and drove the race, in suits and ties!


#122 275 GTB-4

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:58

Pete and Leo teamed up for Bathurst in 1965. With some help from some other brothers - Grace Brothers - they dressed up, and drove the race, in suits and ties!


Wort!!!??? everyone has seen the suit pictures Mr Mackie...but did they actually race in suits rather than their motoring togs??? Outstanding!! either way :)

#123 Ray Bell

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:40

If you'd been there you would have realised it's true...

Probably on the first stint, but it did happen.

#124 Team Result

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 14:33

Many thanks for sharing this, Hank the Deuce. Like others on this forum, I have first-hand witnessed more than a few 'great drives' by outstanding drivers over several decades. None, as in not one, is stamped as indelibly on my mind as those of my hero, "Big Pete" at full noise in the Mustang at Lakeside, back in the day. As you so accurately describe thirty-odd years later, the Mustang, from our viewing spot at Hungry, seemed to float or flow all the way from under Shell Bridge, down through Hungry and up around the Eastern Loop, using all the track though always on the same line and never out of shape so much that a throttle lift was required. In another thread I mention how he even repeated this feat at the wettest race meeting I've ever attended. Even a kid could tell that Ian Geoghegan in his Mustang was an extraordinary driver and simply the best.

I was fortunate enough to attend a day in the shed with the Bowden family recently. They own the '65 Geoghegan Mustang or course, and the Improved Production XY. Dan was our host, and told a magnificent story of having Pete come to Brisbane to see the Mustang following its restoration.

Pete was not well at the time, and they took him out to Lakeside. According to Dan, KB took the car out on track for a shakedown, and then brought it in. The big fella got into the car, visibly moved, and burbled out. Dan said he just trundled around at about 40km/h; Dan felt a little disappointment, after growing up surrounded by tales of the man and that car in their day, but he and his father agreed that reuniting the pair was something special, regardless of how Ian chose to drive it, surmising that it was a moment for Pete, not for them. The Mustang puttered past them on the front straight, no faster, and they shrugged and started walking away from the track...

...and within a half a minute, the calm of Lake Kurwongbah was shattered by the sound of the 289 being gunned hard.

The Bowdens ran across to the other side of the infield, in time to see the Mustang flowing through Hungry and up into the Eastern Loop in signature Geoghegan style, sliding one way, then the next in a ceaseless flow, the engine note unchanging... and onto the next lap, then one more, and then pitward, cutting the motor into a deafening silence.

Dan reckoned if he hadn't seen it, he wouldn't have believed it for himself, and it obviously remains a cherished memory of man and machine.



#125 Wirra

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 20:00

Some good examples of his car control.



#126 DanTra2858

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 20:23

Back in the days when I was a Fire Marshall at The Farm I can remember Pete coming of the western Crossing onto the main straight with tire smoke coming off the drivers side front tire, lap after lap this happened but I did not see this on any of the other cars that he was competing against, a moment to remember.

#127 Graham Clayton

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 06:22

Back in the days when I was a Fire Marshall at The Farm I can remember Pete coming of the western Crossing onto the main straight with tire smoke coming off the drivers side front tire, lap after lap this happened but I did not see this on any of the other cars that he was competing against, a moment to remember.


Daniel,

Here is a classic picture of Pete's forceful driving style - is this the dogleg at Oran Park?

Posted Image

Source: http://www.shannons....4X1D68BA87W3N2/

#128 brucemoxon

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 10:35

Daniel,

Here is a classic picture of Pete's forceful driving style - is this the dogleg at Oran Park?

Posted Image

Source: http://www.shannons....4X1D68BA87W3N2/



I think it's Robin Orlando / Suttons Corner - which leads to the Dogleg.



Bruce Moxon

#129 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 12:38

Correct...

No other place produces that angle of photo.

#130 DanTra2858

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 20:49

Daniel,

Here is a classic picture of Pete's forceful driving style - is this the dogleg at Oran Park?

Posted Image

Source: http://www.shannons....4X1D68BA87W3N2/


Now what was that suspension setting Sir :lol:

#131 GMACKIE

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 22:15

Now what was that suspension setting Sir :lol:

I suppose it's really only the 'outside' wheel angles that matter, as they are doing all the work....that's not to say Pete isn't doing any. :eek:

#132 Lola5000

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 11:24

Like many Pete Geoghegan was one of my childhood race hero's but I know very little of his father Tom,apart from his sponsorship of his son Ian and Leo.
So his life and history and what came of him,when did he stop being involved in the racing and the business ect.

Edited by Lola5000, 16 July 2013 - 11:25.


#133 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 13:02

I'm not sure when Tom Geoghegan stopped racing, but it was certainly before 1960...

By that time both of his sons were well and truly mobile.

But Tom remained an intrinsic part of the racing team until his death. You might recall that all their cars (or almost all...) were black? The Mustang turned out in white, but it arrived as a black car. It was Tom's death that allowed the change in colour.

#134 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 13:03

Bathurst entries for Tom Geoghegan show him racing there in an MG TC in the 1950 Easter meeting...

He then ran a Jowett Javelin in the October meeting that year, with entries in the October meetings of 1951 and 1952 in the Jowett Jupiter seeing him non-starting both times.

Leo began his Bathurst racing in October, 1956 in a Holden, Pete was there in 1958.

#135 275 GTB-4

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 22:22

Like many Pete Geoghegan was one of my childhood race hero's but I know very little of his father Tom,apart from his sponsorship of his son Ian and Leo.
So his life and history and what came of him,when did he stop being involved in the racing and the business ect.


Rob, From what I have read, Tom was much more than just a "sponsor" or financial backer, he was the driving force behind his boys efforts instilling things like fastidious car prep, facilities etc

#136 Lola5000

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 23:43

I'm not sure when Tom Geoghegan stopped racing, but it was certainly before 1960...

By that time both of his sons were well and truly mobile.

But Tom remained an intrinsic part of the racing team until his death. You might recall that all their cars (or almost all...) were black? The Mustang turned out in white, but it arrived as a black car. It was Tom's death that allowed the change in colour.

Ray,so Tom died around about 1967?
I can remember as a kid my father flying to Sydney and buying sports cars of the Geoghegan's and a few years latter they became Jeep dealers?
By the quality of cars and how often they raced,the business must have been strong to be able to compete with Jane and Norm B.


#137 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 23:54

I'm pretty sure Tom owned the cars...

He was a successful businessman, he ran taxis and a service station, I think, and that grew into used car sales and then the Lotus agency.

Yes, I'm sure Tom was behind the immaculate presentation because it did the business good. This reached new heights, of course, under John Sheppard after Tom died, but it was at a high standard already.

Apparently the boys wanted to go with the white colour scheme before he died but Tom wouldn't allow it. There's a photo of the Mustang in black in RCN (June '65) while Tom's vale notice is from the April issue and gives more details of his racing:

Posted Image Posted Image

Out of interest, I think the first Geoghegan car to appear in white was the Lotus Elan at Bathurst on April 19 while the Lotus 23B and the Lotus 32 were white for the May Warwick Farm. The 23B had previously raced in black and I'm not sure whether or not it was white at the Sandown Park meeting on April 11. In which case it would have been the first Geoghegan car to turn white in the wake of Tom's passing.

The Lotus Cortina was never white, it passed on to Frank Mellit in black, the Mustang never turned out in black while the Lotuses both changed colour.

#138 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 00:01

Originally posted by Lola5000
Ray, so Tom died around about 1967?
I can remember as a kid my father flying to Sydney and buying sports cars from the Geoghegans and a few years latter they became Jeep dealers?
By the quality of cars and how often they raced, the business must have been strong to be able to compete with Jane and Norm B.


Obviously you posted while I was photographing those items from RCN. Your first question is answered in them, March 9, 1965.

They did become Jeep dealers much later on at the Haberfield yard as I recall, probably in the late seventies.

I would imagine the business was strong, but I'm also sure that the support from Total (and later Castrol) was also strong. With good preparation, of course, mechanical mishaps were rare and they didn't have a lot of on-track problems so that would keep costs down. They were also renowned for getting a good quid when they sold off their racing machinery.

When you think about it, they were getting excellent results, so the prizemoney would have added to start money and sponsorship, all of which kept the personal commitment reasonable. And it helped them sell the Lotus road cars.

#139 wagons46

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 03:09

I remember Tom very well from the early 60's. He loved to talk about anything auto and would chat/lecture at great length if you let him.He seemed to just hover around his team tent waiting to snare somebody who would listen and quite often it was me,not that I minded, for a lot of what he related was very interesting.I guess he was very proud of his boys who by this stage had established themselves as major contenders in the classes they contested. It was easy to see where Pete got his looks and size from, although he grew a bit larger than Dad.



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#140 Lola5000

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 03:34

Thanks guys that answered the question's I had.
When i was a kid I grew up in a street where Clive Green moved in,imagine my surprise as a kid walking down the street and loaded on an International truck was a yellow Mustang ,long time ago but the truck looked like photos of the one that Ian transported the Mustang on,I could be wrong.
Or perhaps it was being dropped off to its new home.

#141 austmcreg

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 03:43

Out of interest, I think the first Geoghegan car to appear in white was the Lotus Elan at Bathurst on April 19


Ray, I dont doubt that is true of the post Tom Geoghegan period, but if you want the first non-black Geoghegan car in the Leo / Ian period you have to go back to the Lotus Elite that Leo ran very successfully in 1960, which was white. I dont know what colour Tom's TC or Jowett were.

Rob Saward

Edited by austmcreg, 17 July 2013 - 03:44.


#142 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 03:58

As I posted above, Rob, that was 'almost all'...

I knew about the Elite, I think that Leo ran an 18 in dark green I feel sure, and today I learned that the Jowett Jupiter which proved so unsuccessful was...





...white!

Which might explain why Tom didn't want the cars painted white.

And I'm certain that it was a decision of Leo and Pete to go with white, and that they had wanted to do so previously.

If you recall, the Total Racing Team turned white at the beginning of that year. Or at least the Frank Matich cars did. But not the Geoghegan cars until Tom died.

Robert, that was a Ford F-series truck. Or at least the Geoghegan truck was, I did have a notion, however, that Niel Allen bought that but I could be wrong.

#143 cooper997

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 07:21

Back in the early 90s, John Sheppard was a guest speaker at a Car Club meeting and I remember him telling a tale involving Tom. They were at a race meeting and John was meant to be tinkering away on the Geoghegan cars. Basically it went like this.
Tom to John, "Lad come and have a seat here?" So John obliged, but after 5 or 10 minutes of sitting there for all and sundry to see and with minimal conversation, John said to Tom, "What are we doing sitting here?" With Tom replying, "Well if we sit here long enough Beechey will think we're happy with the preparation of our car and go and pull the gearbox out of his and change the clutch." Which was apparently what happened. Psyching out the opposition being the moral.

Stephen

#144 Lola5000

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 07:43

As I posted above, Rob, that was 'almost all'...

I knew about the Elite, I think that Leo ran an 18 in dark green I feel sure, and today I learned that the Jowett Jupiter which proved so unsuccessful was...





...white!

Which might explain why Tom didn't want the cars painted white.

And I'm certain that it was a decision of Leo and Pete to go with white, and that they had wanted to do so previously.

If you recall, the Total Racing Team turned white at the beginning of that year. Or at least the Frank Matich cars did. But not the Geoghegan cars until Tom died.

Robert, that was a Ford F-series truck. Or at least the Geoghegan truck was, I did have a notion, however, that Niel Allen bought that but I could be wrong.

Ray,in those days there were so many of those style trucks getting around and Green was a local car dealer in Balwyn,so I guess it was another truck,plus the car was yellow which would suggest that Green had owned it for a while and not just had it delivered .
While on that Mustang and its conversion to the latter rules and its fuel injection,I've often wondered why they did that,when the Moffat car worked fine on the IDA's plus the Moffat car never went to injection ...apart from the 351 period?


#145 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 08:16

One can only make assumptions about that...

Presumably they got it to work better with the injection.

#146 Hank the Deuce

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:36

Tom Geoghegan was by all accounts quite a character... and it seemed he found an apt disciple in John Sheppard, who in many interviews with Australian Muscle Car magazine, attributed many of his ongoing philosophies as a team manager to laconic advice he'd received from Tom.

Among my favourites was Tom counselling the minimum amount of practice miles. I'm sure I'd read that Tom loved horse racing - particularly trotting - and he told Sheppo to leave the cars in the garage: "they're not trotters, son, you don't need to train them!"

Ian once recounted discussions that he had with Mick Lambert about the dramas they were having with the XY SuperFalcon over a couple of beers: Mick threw up the idea of throwing the 351 away and dropping a 302 into it. Ian surprised himself by reflexively replying that at least the piston velocities would be somewhat more manageable in a 302. The background to his comment was that such statistics were among the parameter that Tom habitually researched, and had sufficiently drummed into his progeny, that Ian had near-unconsciously researched and noted the figures for the Ford V8's... and the ensuing work on conrod lengths and the like helped with the ongoing development of what ultimately became a 615bhp monster...

#147 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 10:45

I remember hearing Pete talking about the problems Ford were having with the 'Super Falcon'...

The expression was used, I'm not sure by whom, that they had 'outsmarted themselves with things like chromed bores...'

#148 Hank the Deuce

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 11:20

I remember hearing Pete talking about the problems Ford were having with the 'Super Falcon'...

The expression was used, I'm not sure by whom, that they had 'outsmarted themselves with things like chromed bores...'

Pete only got it half-sorted by taking it over, bringing it home to Sydney and then sinking a fortune into it... I'm sure I read somewhere that one of the things they did was scrap the tinfoil shell that Ford had built, and had John Joyce work over a new shell for it....

Apparently they started with the Trans-Am Mustang blueprints, but got their datum point wrong, and so they were ultimately built off-kilter. There's a great story about Moffat's reponse to Al Turner's subtle allegation that Moff wasn't giving the Falcon the benefit of his best efforts...



#149 Lola5000

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 20:45

When you look back on drivers ages and in turn current ages ,Ian was just on 34 years old when he won the Bathurst 1,000 with Moffat in '73.
Within in 3 years his full time racing career was over,along the way he claimed in an aging Porsche with about 250bhp the ASCC against a quality driver and superior car in Hamilton and his RSR.


Perhaps if not for weight ,his career as a front line co driver should have gone on for years past say 1976.

Say 1986 he would have been only 47 years old,which is not an old age for an endurance co pilot ,when one looks at the long careers of Brock,Johnson,Perkins and several other front line local V8 drivers.

His drive at Bathurst in 1980? showed very much he was still capable of mixing it with others as did his drives in the Amaroo TR7 series.

#150 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 21:03

John Joyce did do a lot of work on the Super Falcon, but I'm not sure it was re-shelled...

Robert, what Pete had you simply didn't lose.