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Alta racers


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#51 john ruston

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 11:57

63 in Suffolk,64 with Martin Stretton for Jose Fernandez and 66 in Midlands.All my cars are in UK,

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#52 Steve L

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 12:43

Does Graham Galliers also own chassis 61S?

It would be good to see this single seater out and about again.

#53 john ruston

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 12:53

Think you will find he owns 69 purchased from Dick Last

#54 john ruston

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 12:59

I am wrong the car is 61 from Dick Last

#55 Steve L

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 13:12

Thanks John.

I've always wondered why George Abecassis rebuilt his Alta 61S after the war so that it ran without a headrest? The car certainly looked better with one.

I wonder if he had a shunt which meant making a new body?

#56 RAP

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 19:08

Fivestar
Do you know which car Lord Avebury raced in 1938?
Richard

#57 fivestar

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 23:17

Many thanks John, still leaves us with who owns #69. According to an article in THE AUTOMOBILE it is Paul Jaye.
Also a correction to my current owner list, #62 is owned and raced by Martin Redman.

RAP, I believe that Lord Averbury owned #57, which was originally delivered to J.H. Bartlett. Maybe TEJ could ask Ed Arnold for verification.

Without wishing to start a new thread, there is a picture in Classic and Sports Cars May 1987 issue of a MB W154 outside a garage in Byfleet with the caption "In 1945, Rowland Motors of Byfleet swapped a new Alta for a W154 with the Czeh Automobile Club."
Since by 1945 the newest Alta was already 6 years old and the first post war Alta did not appear until 1948, is this correct.
One one of my recent trips to the Uk, I looked in the Surrey area phone books and came across a R C Rowland registered in Ewell, however I was unable to make contact and am not even sure if there was any connection.
If by chance anybody has heard about this swap?, I would be most interested to hear.

#58 David Birchall

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 03:27

Very late in arriving at this thread. Tom Johnson (TEJ) just emailed me and I have emailed Ed Arnold and David Cohen to ask for their input. I have known of Ed's car for about 30 years, fair stopped me in my tracks when I saw that sitting in the shed, David's car I know nothing of the history.
David B

#59 Graham Gauld

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 07:51

David Cohens car is the ex-Alastair Cormack car. I talked to him about it at Monterey about five or six years ago.

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#60 Ted Walker

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 09:50

My late father owned 12 and 24 in Bristol in the 50s. He also owned a Coupe bodied car that was built for Earl Howe ???? It was light blue with a lot of chrome bits.No photos of that one.The Whitehead car ended up with an SS100 motor in it.It was coverted by its later owner to a single seater with the use of a jack in the middle of the tail.

#61 fivestar

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 23:12

Attached hopefully is a trio of photos of 54, taken after it conversion to a HWM type body.
The top still EOY 8, is at the Isle of Man TT race in 1950 with Peter Bolton driving.
The middle, is after the car was re registered EVG436, taken at Snetterton with Bobby Pattenden at the wheel.
The bottom(which I purchased from Ted Walker) shows the car at the Gr. Auclum Hillclimb in 1954. QUESTION any idea who the driver may be?
http://(IMG)C:documents and settingsPAPAMy DocumentsHWM Alta#54(/IMG)

#62 fivestar

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 23:17

Looks like no photos were attached. can anyone enlighten me on the correct method to attach a photo. thanks

#63 David Birchall

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 00:22

Try following the imageshack.com instructions and the 'Advice on posting photos' thread by Bira-if I can do it anyone can!

#64 fivestar

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 02:00

Posted Image

Lets see if this works.

#65 fivestar

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 04:27

Ted,
According to my info yes both #12 and #24 were in the Bristol area in the 50's.
#12 was sold by a D.L.Jones, of Westbury on Trym, Bristol to J.Campbell, Fernbank Road, Bristol on August 21, 1951.
The original owner of #12 was Lord Curzon, who traded in a MG and Morris Cowley coupe for it. Maybe your late father owned a third car??.

#24 was brought by the same D.L.Jones as above on November 6, 1958.

#66 Ted Walker

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 09:22

My father was a dealer in performance cars and he sold them bothto David Jones.My mother says that the coupe had a body similar to an MG Ptype airline coupe.

#67 David Birchall

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 18:40

I just got this response from David Cohen:

Hi David

Thanks for your e-mail and the ref to the blogg site. Most interesting as it is hard to believe that there are many people interested in Altas. Taylor was an interesting part of British motor racing history and Altas were surprisingly good given the few cars built.
My car is Chassis 52S originally owned by Cormack in Scotland and was used quite extensively in Europe during the '36 and '37 seasons. I have plenty bits of info from this era and when you're next in town make some time to come over and take a look.

Ed's car is #57S and belonged to a guy named Neville out of Spuzzum BC and then to a chap in W.Van - T.P. Cameron, 4726 Marine Drive, W.Van. Bewteen his ownership and Ed is a large gap for me, however, Ed probably knows it all?

I shall keep reading the threads and see what develops.
Kind regards
David

T.P. Cameron was Tim Cameron who owned a variety of interesting cars and motorcycles until his death about 10 years ago. He was never concerned with originality; he took a 1928 Frazer Nash Super Sport and turned it into a replica of a Model T speedster! He did, however, keep all the parts of cars he modified. Hence Ed Arnold has the original engine and blower and preselector for his car.

#68 Doug Nye

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Posted 25 January 2006 - 23:53

Originally posted by fivestar
On another issue, D.S. Jenkinson I believe kept a very detailed diary during WWII. I have read somewhere that he rescued Cowell's #54 (EOY 8) from abondment during the war. I understand Doug Nye received all DSJs paperwork after he passed away, if this included his diaries, I would be most interested to read about this rescue.


True - this is a truly superb thread on these generally under-rated but hugely important pioneering cars. Jenks did indeed compile a copy chassis book of Altas which survived but I'm too pressed at the mo to dredge it out. Give me time and its first-hand information should emerge...

DCN

#69 john ruston

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 07:02

As an asside Tony Gaze used 63s whilst he helped map out Goodwood,It should go to the revival but probably will not be asked

#70 john ruston

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 11:04

69 with Paul Jaye

#71 Doug Nye

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 22:56

Here's George Abecassis in his ex-Jucker Alta during the Imperial Trophy race meeting at Crystal Palace circuit, London, October 8, 1938...note the celebrated twin rear wheel-rims and tyres. Even that early wily George - though relatively inexperienced - was right on song.

Posted Image

...and here's the somewhat obscure Mr Rowland - mentioned previously in this thread - in the ex-Czechoslovakia you-know-what outside his tiny little garage business in Walton-on-Thames, to the west of London, with an Alta sports visible through the workshop doorway on the right... Oh, and he was Cisitalia concessionaire too.

Posted Image

Photos: GPL

DCN

#72 fivestar

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 23:50

Nice photos Doug. l
Loks like an offset single seater in the background.
From your knowledge, did the swap actually take place? A six year old "new Alta" for a W154 seems a little uneven. - Michael

#73 alessandro silva

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 09:15

Originally posted by Doug Nye




...and here's the somewhat obscure Mr Rowland - ... Oh, and he was Cisitalia concessionaire too.




And Piero Dusio had obtained the Alta distributorship for Italy and his buddy Basadonna for Switzerland. I do not think that any Alta ever arrived in Italy.

Now a question. A fellow called G.W.P. Norton started in the 1949 Woodcote Cup at Goodwood a board an "early" Alta. Any idea about driver and/or car?

More about Rowland Motors. They entered Charles Mortimer's Alta at Gransden 1946 (53S I suppose) and the ex-Rayson Maserati at Gransden 1947, always for Mortimer.

#74 GIGLEUX

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 09:58

The Ecurie Naphtra Course was official Alta's agent for France. The Ecurie Tricolore was also awaiting Altas and the Ecurie Autosport ( de Graffenried, Basadonna and Kautz) did too.

#75 GIGLEUX

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 10:19

Posted Image

From a letter "Raph" sent me in 1989.

#76 john ruston

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 15:32

63 won at both Gransden and Elstree.The first races after war

#77 fivestar

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Posted 02 February 2006 - 23:55

Some time back, Dick Willis asked about the Gib Barrett Alta. if one follows the lead below there is quite an interesting article on Altas, with a couple of photos taken in the 57 and early 62, of both the Barrett car and the ex Whitehead car.

http://forix.com/alta.html

I have a photo of the Barrett car which has been rebodied in the York Motor Museum owned by Peter Briggs, which I will look for an post.
As it is referred to as a FI car (being equipped with a two stage supercharged 1.5L engine), which chassis is this. Alta only built three true F1 cars and all seem to be accounted for. Any ideas??

#78 David McKinney

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 20:33

Cars in Alta display at Silverstone in 2003 included:
unnumbered prototype (PK4052) - David Baldock
‘13’ (XKD666) - allegedly ex-Le Mans
14 (GX2281) - Ian Baxter
16 (KJ8421) - Douglas Blain
20 (ECP903)
21S (PS8673)
24 (AER884)
‘25’ (DJP929)

Also, my records give spellings of Franz Kirtzevan and Pierre Honiger
And it should be Lord Avebury
And Martin Redmond

#79 fivestar

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 23:19

Hi David,
Are you saying that 8 1100cc cars were exhibited at Silverstone?
According to my records
#14 was the Le Mans please alsou look at the cars for sale by COYS.
#13 was an engine supplied to R.R.Jackson for the Horton Special.
#25 is the car currently owned by G. Lowe in Australia. Do you have a picture of it at Silverstone.

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#80 David Birchall

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 03:25

David Cohen sent me this sketch of 52S at Brooklands. I don't know who has the copyright:

Posted Image

#81 David McKinney

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 08:55

Originally posted by fivestar
Hi David,
Are you saying that 8 1100cc cars were exhibited at Silverstone?
According to my records
#14 was the Le Mans please alsou look at the cars for sale by COYS.
#13 was an engine supplied to R.R.Jackson for the Horton Special.
#25 is the car currently owned by G. Lowe in Australia. Do you have a picture of it at Silverstone.

I agree
Which is why I put '13' and '25' in quotes ;)

#82 john ruston

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 14:28

Lots of 1100cc cars about.Its been a long time since Graham's car was at Silverstone

#83 roadmap

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 15:34

Hi
If someone is rebuilding an Alta 1100 or 1500, or special with an Alta engine. I have an offest supercharger for one. Its not for someone for a spare or a dealer but it can go to someone who needs it for their car..

#84 Steve L

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 15:43

Hi Roadmap,

Have you seen the most recent post in the Alta thread on the Ten Tenths forum?

I think someone was following up your offer of a supercharger there.....

#85 roadmap

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Posted 05 March 2006 - 13:47

Thanks I have replied to the chap

#86 Warren Matthews

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 06:42

I am sure there was an Alta 1500cc raced in Western Australia at Caversham and maybe at Albany by Jim Ward who owned a bakery at Dwellingup. He also raced a MK11 Zephyr with a Raymond Mays head.

He may have bought the Alta from Jack Ayres when he aquired another open wheeler.

Pass this on to Terry or Ray

#87 David McKinney

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 06:57

I'm neither Terry nor Ray, but believe that Ward's Alta was the ex-Gib Barrett/Sydney Anderson car

#88 Warren Matthews

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 07:05

Thanks- it probably was one of Syd's cars-he didn't keep many for long.

I must have had "seniors pause" forgot these postings

http://forums.atlasf...?postid=2079700


#89 Terry Walker

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 09:40

Just to clarify:

The 1.5 litre two-stage supercharged F1 Alta with wire wheels was the Sydney Anderson - Jim ward car, now owned by Peter Briggs via the late John Dawson-Damer.

The 2 litre naturally aspirated F2 Alta (with Holden engine, raced by David Drew) with mag wheels is a different car, now racing in UK with an Alta engine. Whitehead sold it to Australia less engine, and used the 2 litre engine in a Cooper Bristol chassis.

I took this pic of the 1.5 litre car at the Fremantle motor museum recently.

Posted Image

#90 roadmap

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 19:17

Similarity to my 47 Emeryson fitted with a Bristol engine.

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#91 Dutchy

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 14:01

What engine is fitted to your Emeryson?

#92 Dutchy

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 15:03

I recall Ray Potter raced an Alta in the 1960s in VSCC events. IIRC it was one of the 1951 F2 cars and had wire,a as opposed to magnesium wheels - does anyone know what happened to that car?

#93 Graham Gauld

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 17:47

Until I have checked it out I think you will find the Ray Potter car is the car that Andrew Fletcher - former Chevron B16 driver - owns and was the ex-Gordon Watson Formula II car, the second of the 1950's Formula 2 cars. The car has been in Scotland for at least 20 years alongside Andrews B16 and his Alfa Tipo 33.

#94 David McKinney

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 19:26

That's what my notes say

#95 fivestar

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 22:24

The question still remains, as to the origin of the F1 Alta originally raced in Australia by Gib Barrett.
According to my notes only three F1s were constructed and all are accounted for. As the Alta nose badge on this car is different to other F1 and F2 Altas, I can only assume this was a "special" made up for Barrett by Alta utilising bits and pieces in the Alta workshop.
Remember two stage supercharged 1.5 litre engines were not eligible for any known formula in 1956.

#96 fivestar

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 23:51

Further to my earlier message, here is a front photo of the F1 Alta in the Briggs museum showing the different Alta badge.

Posted Image

#97 Terry Walker

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 07:27

During its racing career in Western Australia, the F1 Alta had a new, more modern nose cone fitted, as well as a different exhaust system, and these changes are still on the car. I expect the original badge went with the original nose, wherever that is.

Peter Briggs' car was the Robert / Roberta Cowell car and there are pictures of it on my website at

http://www.terrywalk...s/Alta/Alta.htm

#98 RAP

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 08:59

Can any one tell me which Alta Peter Moores had in the UK in 1970. According to a programme it was a 1936 2.0 litre.
Thanks
RAP

#99 Terry Walker

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 11:08

Hi Fivestar

Just to confirm: the Gib Barrett car was Chassis 101, circa 1948.

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#100 GIGLEUX

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 11:28

D.S.Jenkinson in Directory of Historic Racing Cars wrote:
-69IS Whereabouts unknown. Single seater with independent suspension all-around by torsion bar springs. Built for Lady Mary Grosvenor (2 ltre), but not delivered and was last Alta to be built pre-war. Post war raced by Bob Cowell and Gordon Watson. Rebodied with post war Alta-style bodywork and disappeared into limbo at end of supercharging era of racing.
Two remarks: Lady Grosvenor entered in 1946 hillclimbs with a 1500cc Alta. Was it the same car?
When rebodied did the car became numbered "101"?