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#301 David McKinney

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 09:51

It was originally A H Beadle's 2.0 sportscar but what it was when Pattenden had I can't say, sorry. Peter Bolton had apparently equipped it with an HWM-style body in 1950 but I'm not quite sure what that means either :blush:

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#302 fivestar

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 11:53

John,
Look at the photos in my post #64, Jan 25, 2006.
The top photo was taken at IOM, when driven by Peter Bolton, after chassis 54 had been rebodied in the HWM style. It still has reg EOY8
The middle photo is the same car at Snetterton driven by R. pattenden after re registration to EVG436
The bottom photo is at Grt Aclum when driven by Jackie Epstein or John Onslow

rgds - Mike 5*

#303 David McKinney

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 12:25

That's probably where I got my info from, Mike
Apologies for not remembering :)

#304 terry mcgrath

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 13:36

quickly from my notes
#17 chassis number type S No 17 engine number 17 first registered 3/3/1933 to Ernest Frank Evans KV4041
last registered Joseph Lowrey 31 december 1946

#9 I have noted as David Cooper Doncaster Yorks rego MVS351

Alan Sinclair told me that apart from the Alta he took to australia and raced here he took about 30 S/H cars out here between 1937-1939 including what he noted as a FN BMW LHD ex Alpine trial car?

terry

Edited by terry mcgrath, 15 September 2009 - 23:23.


#305 john ruston

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 19:23

Any ideas where 54 is now?

EOY is registered with DVLC ,by who,I don't know.Engine is with me.

Seems chassis 70 was destined for Le Mans but other things intervened.



#306 David McKinney

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 21:49

Any ideas where 54 is now?

I have a 2003 note saying "long since lost" according to John Ruston :)


#307 fivestar

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 23:02

John/ David/ Terry

In spring 1958 Peter Mew purchased #54 with eng 63 from the Chequered Flag. Subsequently he fitted the engine from #70 which he also owned as it was better.
In 1959 # 54 was written off by Peter Mew in 1959. Peter refitted the engine to #70 and did a part exchange for MXK272 via Chiltern Cars. Mike Bishop bought #70 from Chiltern cars in June 1960.
In Nov 1960 Peter Mew adverised the remains for #54 in Motorsport for Stg65.00 and the parts were sold to "someone" in Birmingham.
John, do you not own engine 63?
After that no more news. EVG does not appear in the DLVC, probably as it is not as well known as EOY8

MVS351 is an Alta Jag based I believe on a Post war F2 Alta Chassis #090

#308 fivestar

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 02:02

Attached three more photos of #54.

Top, as built
Middle, after rebuild
Bottom, at Lewes

Posted Image

#309 john ruston

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 07:01

I have had EOY 8 engine for ten years but nothing else.Its on the shelf.

I have found that number EOY 8 is held by someone,I don't know who,but I have always been told that the car is long gone.My betting is that it will reappear someday.

70 was rebuilt at works in 54 ,ref Mike Bishop,and I bought it in 2007.The plan is to race it next year.

We have all of the Gaze car EJJ and that has raced at Silverstone Festival for four of last five years and will next be seen at Spa 6 hr meeting.

Plan is to run it in Woodcote Trophy races next year as it's main race history was post war.Should annoy some of others.

The Graham Lowe 2 litre car is rebuilt and looks a splendid thing.



#310 fivestar

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 02:39

John,
If I recall correctly EJJ703 had engine #54 in it and EOY8 had eng#63.
Either way, are you at liberty to say where the extra engine you have on the shelf, be it #54 or #63 came from.

rgds - Mike[5*]

#311 terry mcgrath

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 16:34

#17. Delivered March 12, 1933, KV4041 to E.J. Evans. Four seater bodywork.

The car in Wales was car 17 and I have found the picture we took of Logbook last entry is Lowry 1948.
There were 2 pictures not necessarily of 17 one of a car no plates in front of a garage with WW2 headlight shield the second of a pale blue car cigar shape body homemade aftermarket registered DPJ5##
Any thoughts
terry

quickly from my notes
#17 chassis number type S No 17 engine number 17 first registered 3/3/1933 to Ernest Frank Evans KV4041
last registered Joseph Lowrey 31 december 1946

#9 I have noted as David Cooper Doncaster Yorks rego MVS351

Alan Sinclair told me that apart from the Alta he took to australia and raced here he took about 30 S/H cars out here between 1937-1939 including what he noted as a FN BMW LHD ex Alpine trial car?

terry



#312 fivestar

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Posted 03 October 2009 - 23:51


Terry, any chance you can post the photos. There was a DPG 167 which is the car now owned by Greame Lowe. - Mike[5*]

#313 john ruston

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 13:02

I have photos of Graham's car and will check engine numbers when I next see cars.

#314 fivestar

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 23:27


Having looked through my photos again, I believe it could be DJP 929 chassis #25 which was originally owned by A.C. Lace in 1935. This car whilst a 1100cc, had the later type nose.
I believe it then went to A.A. Mellard?, P.Miller and perhaps W. Bristow.
The photo I have shows the car taken from the nearside with cycle mudguards, full windscreen but no lights.
Mike [5*]

#315 Malcolm Schofield

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 21:56

Terry, any chance you can post the photos. There was a DPG 167 which is the car now owned by Greame Lowe. - Mike[5*]

I ownd DPG 167in the early 1960's Ifound it in a scrap yard in London. I did a rebuild on it but before i finished I sold it to a man from Doncaster. I had to sell it as I needed the room as at the time I had the Hugh Hunter car Which I got From Hugh Clifford and the white Abercasis car. I still have the Alta dash badge.

Edited by Malcolm Schofield, 11 October 2009 - 21:15.


#316 fivestar

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 02:26

Hi Malcolm, can you expand on how/where you found DPJ167. Was the condition that bad it warranted to be in a scrap yard.
The streamliner was also "discovered" in a scrapyard in the early 60s.
rgds - Mike [5*]

#317 Malcolm Schofield

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 11:59

Hi Malcolm, can you expand on how/where you found DPJ167. Was the condition that bad it warranted to be in a scrap yard.
The streamliner was also "discovered" in a scrapyard in the early 60s.
rgds - Mike [5*]

I would send you some photos but I hAVE not WORKED OUTHOW TO DO THAT.
How to start ?
My cousin John Bateson had been in th VSCC Concoursfor some time our respected fathers had a 4.5 and a Speed SIx Bentlys. ( see Will Schofield Flikr ).
After the death of my father John and I boughrt the Hugh Hunter car of Hugh Clifford.
We raced at the Seaman trophy 1961. a man looking at the car gave me then ame of a man in Penge who had a badge of a Alta. When contacted he sent us the badge and the adress of a petrol station in Penge. We arrived a this Esso station and behind a lot of scrap was DPG. We payed them 200 quid and took anything we liked.
At the time we lived in Rochdale, we found it had not had any spark plugs fox many years and the engine was seazed. As we were enginers this did not present a great problem.
The car had no interior but was not in that bad condition,no paint on the body and rust damage on the chasis.
We Started a major rebuild in our new garage in Moberl Cheshire, then along came the Abacasis car with a broken crank again from Hugh Clifford. The crank wasr eplaced Thanks to a freind who worked fora large aicraft manufacture in Manchester
At this time we had 3 Altas 1 q type MG (X Harvey Nobel ) 1 JW Maserati, 1 Cooper Diamler s/c v8 ( Death trap ) and 2 lotus, 1 Ford twin cam formulat junior and the x Jim Clark Elite2.5 Climax Elite.
Then it came the end of a miss spent youth wedings children ect.
The Altas were sold, Peter Mores the Bentlys to my everlasting regret to Vintage cars of New York.
DPG was sent to a man in Bawtry Doncaster who paid us a deposit then died we never got paid for the car. William Body of Motor Sport told me it had been stolen and sent to OZ.

Edited by Malcolm Schofield, 12 October 2009 - 18:12.


#318 fivestar

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 06:27


Malcolm, Most interesting. Below an article from Motor Sport on the theft.

Posted Image



#319 Malcolm Schofield

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 07:20

Malcolm, Most interesting. Below an article from Motor Sport on the theft.

Posted Image

schofield316@btinternet.com Send me a mail Iwill send you some photos.

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#320 fivestar

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 11:02


Hope this is more readable

http://img243.images...lta55dpg167.jpg



#321 Malcolm Schofield

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 20:37

Hope this is more readable

http://img243.images...lta55dpg167.jpg

Yes thats better, I must find out how to post photos.
I lost trak after the gentleman in Doncaster died. It was around 1965 we sold it. Where had it been till 1982?
I even found him a new ENV110 gear box from a man in Leatherhead, He had a lot of Alta engines he got them from HWM. Canot remember his name but he had a Frazer Nash La Mans AND A BALLROOM IN HIS HOUSE.
My Email is down again B----y BT

Edited by Malcolm Schofield, 13 October 2009 - 21:09.


#322 fivestar

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 02:05

Malcolm, presume this is you in #62

Posted Image

#323 Malcolm Schofield

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 02:53

Malcolm, presume this is you in #62

Posted Image

Clockwise Anthony Statham, Hugh Clifford, John Bateson sat in car me and John worthy. Douglas Hull in the white overalls.
I am going to put some photos on Flikr tomorrow.
Mr Black Inever methe must of got the car from the man in Doncasters estate. DPG 167 was blue when I found it and Mr Body told me it was blue when George drove it for Bennet.
I read about engine numbers, the Hunter carwas blown up by Bill Little and Hugh Clifford. The 1499 78 x78 engine had a lot of problems, it liked to mix its water and oil thanks to the water cooled magneto. The cam shafts are too thin and not enough bearings. the worst was the simplex chain drive. It was always a risk over 8000 rpm. The top end was always to flexable hence the bent valve problem. a side note Hugh live ina house called Bentmoore, we used to say bent more vaves than enyone.

Edited by Malcolm Schofield, 14 October 2009 - 02:53.


#324 fivestar

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 04:32

Wow, that a quick reply, you must be up early or late to bed.
According to the Works record the car was painted red when delivered to Bennett on 19th Feb. 1936. interesting to note according to records that the pistons seized on gudgeon pin bosses on 6th March 1936.
Is there a chance Boddy has confused this car with #54 EOY8 which Abecassis also drove in 1939 which had a similar body and was painted blue..

Edited by fivestar, 14 October 2009 - 06:39.


#325 Malcolm Schofield

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 08:58

Wow, that a quick reply, you must be up early or late to bed.
According to the Works record the car was painted red when delivered to Bennett on 19th Feb. 1936. interesting to note according to records that the pistons seized on gudgeon pin bosses on 6th March 1936.
Is there a chance Boddy has confused this car with #54 EOY8 which Abecassis also drove in 1939 which had a similar body and was painted blue..

Most of the body hadno paint theonly paint was on the bonnet. The engine was seized as water had filled the cylinders. We did not want to re-bore so the cylinders were honed and re-ringed
I am up a lot at night. my 90 year old mother has altzimers and does not sleep well.
See WillSchofield on flickr

Edited by Malcolm Schofield, 14 October 2009 - 10:54.


#326 racingreen

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 14:38

I recall Ray Potter raced an Alta in the 1960s in VSCC events. IIRC it was one of the 1951 F2 cars and had wire,a as opposed to magnesium wheels - does anyone know what happened to that car?



The ALTA raced by Ray Potter was F2/2, ex Gordan Watson. It resides today in a private collection in Scotland in remarkably original condition.

#327 racingreen

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 15:11

John/ David/ Terry

In spring 1958 Peter Mew purchased #54 with eng 63 from the Chequered Flag. Subsequently he fitted the engine from #70 which he also owned as it was better.
In 1959 # 54 was written off by Peter Mew in 1959. Peter refitted the engine to #70 and did a part exchange for MXK272 via Chiltern Cars. Mike Bishop bought #70 from Chiltern cars in June 1960.
In Nov 1960 Peter Mew adverised the remains for #54 in Motorsport for Stg65.00 and the parts were sold to "someone" in Birmingham.
John, do you not own engine 63?
After that no more news. EVG does not appear in the DLVC, probably as it is not as well known as EOY8

MVS351 is an Alta Jag based I believe on a Post war F2 Alta Chassis #090



Dear Fivestar,
Can you tell me where you reference the chassis # 090 ?? I m aware of post war ALTA engines having numbers like FBxxxx or 1109, etc. I am also aware of F2/3 having a long chassis number today, but where do you reference " #090" from ???
Thanks,
David.

Edited by racingreen, 14 October 2009 - 16:48.


#328 racingreen

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 16:52

I am having difficulty in identifying some of the s/c Altas racing in the early post-war years.
An article by Graham Gould in the short-lived Historic Motor Racing is not of big help for that period, although he clearly identifies the six s/c Altas built in 1935/36 and the first ifs car built in 1937/38.
Of these after the war, in 1946/47 in particular, 52S (1.5L) was owned by P.J. Binns and raced by Crossley at Gransden and Douglas in 1947; 53S (2L) was owned by Chas Mortimer in 1946 and raced at Gransden in 1946; 61IS is the Abecassis car raced at Gransden Geneva Salon in 1946.
Now my questions:
1) Binns’ car is identified as the 1935 red ex-Cormack car (so 52S). Why is it given c/n 62IS in Sheldon? Misprint or did it get new ifs suspension and was renumbered?
2) Watson raced at Bern, Gransden, Ulster and Douglas in 1947 a newly bodied 1.5L car much anticipating the shape of the GP Alta. It had the same ifs as 61IS, which were very particular. Was it 61IS rebodied or a different car? Was it Cowell’s 1946 car, [which was a 2L BTW, see below]? Why is it given c/n 69IS by Sheldon? Was it perhaps a car assembled postwar? Taylor was slowly working at the GP Alta, why then built a new car on pre-war specs?
3) The car raced by Cowell in 1946 was not the sports car raced by Cowell in 1939 – sold to Heath – but a 2L car ex-Mary Grosvernor with central seat and, possibly ifs. Which one of the pre-war cars was this?
4) A N. Carr raced a 2L s/c Alta during 1948. From the only photo I have this could be either the Abecassis’ car or the 1946 Cowell car. Any idea? Equivalently what’s the story of the Abecassis car soon after 1946 (it still exists today)?
5) A Williams raced a s/c 1.5 Alta during 1946/1947. I have a photo that identifies it very well, in the sense of a very peculiar body. This was supposedly an ex-Hugh Hunter car. Any idea of c/n?


To quote a seperate discussion ; 189439 (or Wagen 9) was considered by the Czech AC as being a possibility of exchange with a modern post war GP car. It seems a deal was conclued with Alta in 1946. Alta had an agent RC Rowland Motors Ltd who was their distributor for Southern England and Export. Rowland brought the car back from Prague to his premises at Byfleet (Surrey) on a truck. What is strange is that Alta never built a GP car for the Czech AC!
A picture of the car was published by The Autocar of December 13,1946 with the following caption:
"This 3 litre Grand Prix Mercedes-Benz has recently arrived in this country on an international carnet,issued in the name of the Czech Automobile Club, and is at present at R.C.Rowland's premises at Byfleet, Surrey".
Always in the Autocar, March 14, 1947 issue: "The 3 litre Grand Prix Mercedes-Benz, now at Rowlands Motors at Byfleet, has been sold to the Robert Lee Corporation of Los Angeles. It will sail on the Queen Elizabeth, on March 15, and will be flown from New-York to Los Angeles by special aircraft. Technical director of the Robert Lee Corporation is Louis (sic) Chinetti, one-time winner of Le Mans and he will be in charge of the preparation of the car for this year's Indianapolis 500. It is not yet known who will drive the car.".

Did an ALTA ever get sent/swapped for the Mercedes W154 that appeared in England post war???

David Woodhouse.

#329 fivestar

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 23:16


David,
To answer both your questions, The #090 came from the info Coys of kensington put out on the sale of MVS 351. I asked a question at the time as #090 did not fit in with any chassis # I was aware off, but never got any answer.

I have also enquired both on this thread and the Czeh racing thread whether the allegded swap took place, but again have never received a finite answer. I my view a swap may have been contemplated but never took place. That still leaves the question about who actually purchased the MB and how much it was purchased for.

#330 fivestar

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 23:19


Hi Malcolm, many thanks and sorry nto hear about your Mother, my Father at 87 is the same.
Whilst on Altas, do you recall who you sold the Abecassis and Hunter cars to?
Mike

#331 john ruston

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 09:13

The Black Museum Car is the Lowe job?

Does anyone have any ideas on Chassis 70 Racing History immediately Post War?

Alta ENV 110 gearbox wanted if possible.

#332 fivestar

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 10:22


John,
Yes the Black car was the one sold to Greame by Fleming in 1982.
#70 as far as I am aware was never raced. it was converted to 2L in 1953
rgds 5*

#333 john ruston

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 18:59

Chassis 70 has Engine 70!
Usual stamp.

#334 Malcolm Schofield

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 19:53

Hi Malcolm, many thanks and sorry nto hear about your Mother, my Father at 87 is the same.
Whilst on Altas, do you recall who you sold the Abecassis and Hunter cars to?
Mike

The Hugh Hunter car to Peter Moores the Abecassis to Hugh Clifford.

#335 MVS 151

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 20:15

John/ David/ Terry

In spring 1958 Peter Mew purchased #54 with eng 63 from the Chequered Flag. Subsequently he fitted the engine from #70 which he also owned as it was better.
In 1959 # 54 was written off by Peter Mew in 1959. Peter refitted the engine to #70 and did a part exchange for MXK272 via Chiltern Cars. Mike Bishop bought #70 from Chiltern cars in June 1960.
In Nov 1960 Peter Mew adverised the remains for #54 in Motorsport for Stg65.00 and the parts were sold to "someone" in Birmingham.
John, do you not own engine 63?
After that no more news. EVG does not appear in the DLVC, probably as it is not as well known as EOY8

MVS351 is an Alta Jag based I believe on a Post war F2 Alta Chassis #090


I have only just picked up this reference to chassis 090 on a post war Alta and I thought I should clarify this for future accuracy. Chassis 090 is my Alta now registered as MVS 351 (brain fade when joining this forum allowed me to register incorrectly as MVS151 instead of MVS351 - further confusion !!!!). Chassis 090 was given to my car when David Cooper first registered it on the road (it now has 2 seater sports/racing bodywork) in the 1980s. MOT regs requires every car to have a chassis number apparently as otherwise no MOT. David gave it chassis 9 as he was uncertain as to its identity - just believing it at the time to be a post war F2 Alta. He knew that there were about 8 post war F2 chassis accounted for (F2/1 to F2/5 plus 3 spares). He knew that my chassis was not one of those hence he decided to go for number 9 !! It would now appear that the liklihood is that my chassis is in fact GP4 i.e the 4th GP car started by Alta - but whether it was ever finished in that form or in what other form has not yet been established. Those who know far more about Altas than me i.e. David Woodhouse and Alan Ede can verify (or not !) the clues to this conclusion. I think that its Irish history (it seems to have emerged from Ireland through Hugh Clifford in about 1965) could establish its early history after leaving the works. So far I have not been able to find out anything definite in Ireland but it may have gone through the hands of Bobbie Baird or even Joe Kelly. If anyone knows anything could they please let me know ?

#336 Dutchy

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 07:48

I have only just picked up this reference to chassis 090 on a post war Alta and I thought I should clarify this for future accuracy. Chassis 090 is my Alta now registered as MVS 351 (brain fade when joining this forum allowed me to register incorrectly as MVS151 instead of MVS351 - further confusion !!!!). Chassis 090 was given to my car when David Cooper first registered it on the road (it now has 2 seater sports/racing bodywork) in the 1980s. MOT regs requires every car to have a chassis number apparently as otherwise no MOT. David gave it chassis 9 as he was uncertain as to its identity - just believing it at the time to be a post war F2 Alta. He knew that there were about 8 post war F2 chassis accounted for (F2/1 to F2/5 plus 3 spares). He knew that my chassis was not one of those hence he decided to go for number 9 !! It would now appear that the liklihood is that my chassis is in fact GP4 i.e the 4th GP car started by Alta - but whether it was ever finished in that form or in what other form has not yet been established. Those who know far more about Altas than me i.e. David Woodhouse and Alan Ede can verify (or not !) the clues to this conclusion. I think that its Irish history (it seems to have emerged from Ireland through Hugh Clifford in about 1965) could establish its early history after leaving the works. So far I have not been able to find out anything definite in Ireland but it may have gone through the hands of Bobbie Baird or even Joe Kelly. If anyone knows anything could they please let me know ?


I'm wondering if this is the car I referred to in a much earlier post as being the one owned by Chris Stewart at some point - this would be the 1970s. Was your car a single seater before David Cooper registered it for the road? Do you know in what form it was when Hugh Clifford retrieved it from Ireland?

#337 fivestar

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 09:42

I'm wondering if this is the car I referred to in a much earlier post as being the one owned by Chris Stewart at some point - this would be the 1970s. Was your car a single seater before David Cooper registered it for the road? Do you know in what form it was when Hugh Clifford retrieved it from Ireland?


Have you looked at this link:

http://www.invaluabl...-1-c-1v08wp96y2

rgds - Mike [5*]

#338 Dutchy

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 13:41

Thanks - very interesting



#339 Malcolm Schofield

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 19:26

I'm wondering if this is the car I referred to in a much earlier post as being the one owned by Chris Stewart at some point - this would be the 1970s. Was your car a single seater before David Cooper registered it for the road? Do you know in what form it was when Hugh Clifford retrieved it from Ireland?

I saw the Kelly car at Hugh Cliffords. It was just a chassis when he got it from ireland covered in silver paint. You know dead bird on a stick.

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#340 racingreen

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 23:41

I saw the Kelly car at Hugh Cliffords. It was just a chassis when he got it from ireland covered in silver paint. You know dead bird on a stick.


Malcolm, what you saw at Hugh's was not the Kelly car. GP3's history is clear (for Altas), and known throughout. At the time you saw what you think to be GP3 at Hugh's it was actually in two seat, Jag powered, HWM bodied guise (throughout the '60s, as it still is today).
If, what you saw at Hugh's was post war Alta, then it was the ex Scragg, spare rolling chassis that had been replaced by a HWM frame from under SPC. This rolling chassis was built up by Hugh with pre war S/c engine, and body from Ray Fielding (ex GP3) to later become the Donington Alta. Hugh ran the car in a few VSCC events in the '60s.

#341 racingreen

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 23:47

I have only just picked up this reference to chassis 090 on a post war Alta and I thought I should clarify this for future accuracy. Chassis 090 is my Alta now registered as MVS 351 (brain fade when joining this forum allowed me to register incorrectly as MVS151 instead of MVS351 - further confusion !!!!). Chassis 090 was given to my car when David Cooper first registered it on the road (it now has 2 seater sports/racing bodywork) in the 1980s. MOT regs requires every car to have a chassis number apparently as otherwise no MOT. David gave it chassis 9 as he was uncertain as to its identity - just believing it at the time to be a post war F2 Alta. He knew that there were about 8 post war F2 chassis accounted for (F2/1 to F2/5 plus 3 spares). He knew that my chassis was not one of those hence he decided to go for number 9 !! It would now appear that the liklihood is that my chassis is in fact GP4 i.e the 4th GP car started by Alta - but whether it was ever finished in that form or in what other form has not yet been established. Those who know far more about Altas than me i.e. David Woodhouse and Alan Ede can verify (or not !) the clues to this conclusion. I think that its Irish history (it seems to have emerged from Ireland through Hugh Clifford in about 1965) could establish its early history after leaving the works. So far I have not been able to find out anything definite in Ireland but it may have gone through the hands of Bobbie Baird or even Joe Kelly. If anyone knows anything could they please let me know ?


Dear MVS,

Where is there any evidence of "3 Spare" F2 Chassis? From where is this quoted?
Also, are you positive the your chassis went from Clifford to Gaihagen/Hampson at Rees Brothers?

David.

#342 Malcolm Schofield

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 11:17

Malcolm, what you saw at Hugh's was not the Kelly car. GP3's history is clear (for Altas), and known throughout. At the time you saw what you think to be GP3 at Hugh's it was actually in two seat, Jag powered, HWM bodied guise (throughout the '60s, as it still is today).
If, what you saw at Hugh's was post war Alta, then it was the ex Scragg, spare rolling chassis that had been replaced by a HWM frame from under SPC. This rolling chassis was built up by Hugh with pre war S/c engine, and body from Ray Fielding (ex GP3) to later become the Donington Alta. Hugh ran the car in a few VSCC events in the '60s.

What I saw was a chasiss behined his workshop. I new Phil Scragg the chasiss did not come from him there was no body. Hugh was going to put a Jag engie in it. The name Chris ball comes to mind

Edited by Malcolm Schofield, 06 November 2009 - 11:19.


#343 Dutchy

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 13:52

What I saw was a chasiss behined his workshop. I new Phil Scragg the chasiss did not come from him there was no body. Hugh was going to put a Jag engie in it. The name Chris ball comes to mind


I remember the car in Chris Ball's hands. I first saw it at AMOC Castle Coombe in 1973; it was red and rather tatty. The next season IIRC it reappeared looking very smart in its current pale green livery. Oddly it never wore mudguards while in Ball's hands despite always running as a sports car.

#344 Ted Walker

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 08:54

I thought that Chris ball found his car in South Africa and it was the ex Scragg Alta Jaguar.. Scragg had the reg No RPG478 on it. Chris ball did run it with cycle wings as well. I have a shot taken at Thruxton in 1975,when he had painted it light green.(it wsa red when he first used it)

#345 D-Type

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Posted 08 November 2009 - 23:18

East Africa rather than South Africa.

In Powered by Jaguar Doug Nye has RPG 418 as the ex-Abecassis Grand Prix Alta No 1 or 101 built up in 1951 by HWM as a cycle-winged sports carwith a Jaguar engine for Phil Scragg. He has it going to Frank Brown in Kenya in 1959, later to Peter Shepard and Chris Ball in 1972 who repatriated it to Britain.

It was definitely red when I saw it race in Kenya. I think another possible owner in Kenya was Peter Sargeantson.

Edited by D-Type, 02 December 2009 - 22:50.


#346 john ruston

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 18:02

Begging.Does anyone out there have a photo of EJJ racing Pre War and has anyone got a copy of the actual factory specs of 2 Litre Sports Car.I know the factory produced a sales brochure that included the spec but I have mislaid my copy.Any costs will be paid and please E Mail johnwruston@hotmail.com

#347 john ruston

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 18:19

Can I thank all the people who have helped and the more the merrier.It's for HTP's!

#348 fivestar

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 01:14

Can I thank all the people who have helped and the more the merrier.It's for HTP's!

John,
Any chance you can post #63's racing history pre war. I have a blank also my file states #63 was originally sold to H.Hunter in 1937.
rgds - Mike [5*]

#349 john ruston

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 13:11

We have photo of EJJ racing at Crystal Palace Pre War by its owner Mr Pink.

Understand it also raced at Brooklands but have to say have never really investigated.

It's better known for Post War record winning in first meeting at Gransden and Sprint at Elstree.

The Gaze record is well known in Australia.



#350 terry mcgrath

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 13:18

Dudley Gagahan's name is mentioned in the text for MVS351 below. On another thread I was interested to find out more about him most of his racing library and a bugatti came to australia.
The library was sold at auction and certainly it was probably the best selection of stuff never seen in australia before lots of Brooklands stuff 100's of motor racing programmes etc etc.
I probably finished with 1/3 of what was offered missing out on Brooklands year books that went back to the UK I did get a set of prewar MG magazines.
But I am still keen to learn more about Dudley Gagahan and what exactly he did collect
terry

The history of MVS351, once retired from GrandPrix racing is not unique. As with many Altas and HWMS, these once glorious Grand Prix cars were converted and modified for road and track use as their chassis' were far more sophisticated than a standard road car and thus gave them great handling. By the late 1960s MVS351 had fallen into disrepair. Its story continues when one horns Capauldi commissioned Dudley Gagahan to find him an Alta Grand Prix car. As luck would have it, in approximately 1968, Gagahan located andbought from a Mr Adams of Putnam, Nr Guildford, the ex- Gordon Watson Alta. Purchased with this car was MVS351 Although semi- derelict with no engine and gearbox, it was instantly recognisable as an Alta F2 Grand Prix car. Capauldi, it appears, then decided against running an Alta and instructed Dudley Gagahan to sell on the Gordon Watson car with Gagahan's company retaining MVS351 This was then duly sold to an enthusiastic employee George Hampson. However, Hampson never had the opportunity to achieve his dream of restoring this superb car to its former glory. Instead, it was sold to its last owner who retained and campaigned this great car in sprints and hill climbs as well as using it regularly as a road and rally car throughout his near thirty years of ownership. Powered by its straight six 3.8 litre Xk Jaguar power unit, this incredible sports racing car has a superb power to weight ratio, giving it awe-inspiring performance and handling. With extremely attractive two seater coachwork adapted from its Gp single- seater bodywork finished in British Racing Green, hide interior and black tonneau cover, also supplied with this vehicle is its spare 3.4 litre block for the faint hearted amongst you! Estimate

Edited by terry mcgrath, 03 December 2009 - 13:19.