28 replies to this topic

[eukie]

Recently I stumbled across two relatively new sources dealing with BMW-worksdrivers of the BMW 328-era. The first is a website on Ralph Roese (1900-1950, made by his grandson (sorry, german-speaking readers only). http://www.ralph.roese.website.ms/ It is still “under construction”, and maybe we can put together some additional content here? Roese was German Sportscar Champion in 1939 (1,5 l-class) and even rekindled his career after the war with a Veritas until his early death in a road accident.
The second is an article on Paul Heinemann (1911-1990) in a booklet that might not be on every TNF-member's bookshelf. Heinemann originated from Geilenkirchen near Aachen and was the son of a building contractor. The article states that he became a works driver in 1935, his best years seem to have been 1937-1939 as results listed below reflect. He did not restart racing after the war (not much more info in the article, so non-german readers might forgive me for not translating it) :

Paul Heinemann der „Caracciola“ aus Geilenkirchen
by Jürgen Klosa
(taken from: Heimatkalender des Kreises Heinsberg 2001, pp. 199-203)

Wohl kaum einer weiß, dass aus unseren Breiten ein berühmter Rennfahrer kam, der in der Vorkriegszeit - zumindest in Sport- und Fachkreisen - in aller Munde war. Die Rede ist von Paul Heinemann aus Geilenkirchen-Hommerschen. Geboren wurde er am 23. Febr. 1911 als Sohn des Peter Heinemann, Inhaber der Baufirma Heinemann & Busse.
Ursprünglich hatte der Vater andere Pläne mit dem Sohn, der einmal den elterlichen Betrieb übernehmen sollte. Doch Paul zog es vor, sich mit der Faszination schneller Autos zu beschäftigen und sich lieber unter ein Auto zu legen, als sich für die Baustellen des väterlichen Betriebes zu interessieren. Der Vater respektierte diese Vorliebe des Sohnes und ließ ihn gewähren. Er bekam sogar noch einen Sportwagen, mit dem er auf den leeren Vorkriegsstraßen meist "freie Fahrt“ hatte. Das Glück eines verständnisvollen und begüterten Vaters, das große Talent und die Begeisterung für "seinen Sport" führte schließlich dazu, dass Paul Heinemann im Jahre 1935 Lizenzfahrer von BMW wurde. Eine vielversprechende Karriere begann, und die Erfolge ließen nicht auf sich warten.
In einem Brief vom 26. Nov. 1979 an die Firma BMW schrieb Paul Heinemann u.a.: „... möchte ich Ihnen als ehemaliger Vorkriegsrennfahrer sagen, dass ich unter Ihrem Oberingenieur Schleicher, Rennleiter Ernst Loof 24 Stunden von Le Mans, Großer Preis von Belgien, (24-Stunden-Rennen), Küstenstraßenrennen Tobruk-Tripolis, als Ersatz für 1000 Meilen von Italien im Team gewonnen habe. Ich gewann zweimal den großen Preis von Bukarest, zweimal das kürzeste Bergrennen der Welt in England. Außerdem fuhr ich 1939 mit Ihrem Fabrikwagen den rumänischen Landesrekord. Dies sind einige Rennen aus meiner sechsjährigen Laufbahn als Sportwagenfahrer für BMW. Meine Rennen habe ich teils für die Fabrik, teils für die O.N.S. (Oberste Nationale Sportbehörde) Berlin gefahren. Außerdem fuhr ich meinen eigenen BMW-Rennsportwagen als Privatfahrer ebenfalls in vielen Rennen. Ich habe fast an allen nationalen und internationalen Sportwagenrennen im In- und Ausland teil genommen."
Es ist zwar Spekulation zu behaupten, dass der Name von Paul Heinemann im weiteren Verlauf seiner Laufbahn den gleichen Klang wie Caracciola oder Stuck bekommen hätte. Doch denkbar wäre es gewesen. Der Ausbruch des Zweiten Weltkrieges setzte dem leider ein Ende. Auch Heinemann musste dem Ruf in die Wehrmacht folgen und opferte aus seiner Sicht im wahrsten Sinne des Wortes die besten Jahre seines Lebens. Er hatte zwar das Glück, relativ gesund den Krieg zu überstehen, aber für den Neuanfang seiner Karriere war es leider zu spät. Als Glück im Unglück empfand er die Tatsache, dass sein BMW unbeschadet den Krieg überstanden hatte. Ihn hatte er während der Kriegsjahre in einer Münchener Tiefgarage geparkt und im Jahre 1946 wiedergefunden. Nach der Überführung nach Geilenkirchen konnte er seinen berühmten Sportwagen mit dem Kennzeichen „IZ 33333" zwar noch einige Jahre fahren, doch war die Zeit der Rennen vorbei.
Auch wenn Paul Heinemann sportlich gesehen nun inaktiv war, lebten in der Fachwelt seine erreichten Erfolge ein wenig weiter. Das spiegelte sich z.B. in seinem Bekanntenkreis wider (Huschke von Hanstein gehörte auch dazu), bzw. in Bitten von rennsportbegeisterten Menschen um ein Autogramm. Doch hatten etwaige "Fans" es manchmal schwer, weil schreiben nicht sein Metier war. Die ganz Hartnäckigen kamen erst nach mehrfachem Versuch zum Ziel.
Im Jahre 2001wäre Paul Heinemann 90 Jahre alt geworden, doch er starb im Alter von 79 Jahren am 1. August 1990. Sechs Jahre davon stand er im Rampenlicht des deutschen und internationalen Rennsports. Er war somit ein berühmter Sohn seiner Heimatstadt, obwohl die meisten sich an diese vielversprechende Karriere vor über 60 Jahren bestimmt nicht mehr erinnern können.
Des einen Spaß, des anderen Last ...
Paul Heinemann genoss auf seine Weise jede neue Straße, auf die er seinen BMW zu Höchstgeschwindigkeiten bringen konnte. Aber der Fahrgenuss des einen bedeutete vorher Schwerstarbeit für viele andere. Diese Schilderung handelt darum von der Entstehung der Straße Boscheln - Alsdorf, die Heinemann oft befuhr und dabei die Aufmerksamkeit der Boschelner Dorfjugend auf sich zog. Lassen wir Leo Engels aus Übach zu Wort kommen: "Mitte der dreißiger Jahre wurde die Straße von Boscheln nach Alsdorf geteert. Ich war damals zwar noch sehr klein, aber ich erinnere mich ganz genau. Der Teer wurde in einem „Teermännchen“ (ein fahrbarer Ofen) gekocht und dann auf die Fahrbahn mit einer Brause aufgetragen. Der dort beschäftigte Arbeiter hielt es in diesem „Ofen" höchstens eine Viertelstunde aus, bevor er ihn fluchtartig verließ. Er beugte sich dann vornüber, hustete und schnappte gierig nach Luft. Eine Dampfwalze mit einem Fliehkraftregler, machte das Aufgetragene dann spiegelglatt.
Nach der Fertigstellung habe ich oft vor dem Haus meiner Tante am Alsdorfer Weg im hohen Gras gelegen, ließ den Splitt durch die Finger rieseln, fing ab und zu einen „Soldaten“ und setzte ihn in ein Marmeladenglas. Mit Vorliebe spähte ich durch meine Beine in Richtung Alsdorf und genoss den Anblick der kopfstehenden Welt. Da die heutigen Bergschäden noch nicht vorhanden waren, fuhren wir Kinder auf dieser wenig befahrenen Straße mit den Rollschuhen. Unsere Strecke erstreckte sich bis zum „dicken Baum“, etwa 200 Meter vor Beginn des Alsdorfer Nordfriedhofs. Der geringe Verkehr auf dieser Provinzialstraße ermöglichte es, sich bestimmte Fahrzeuge genau zu merken. Ein ganz besonderer Wagen war ein weißer BMW. Immer wenn wir ihn sahen, liefen wir sofort zur Straße und genossen den Anblick. Ich erinnere mich, dass der Fahrer mit der Firma Heinemann & Busse aus Geilenkirchen zu tun hatte. Erst später erfuhr ich, dass es der berühmte BMW-Werksfahrer Paul Heinemann aus Geilenkirchen persönlich war, der uns Kinder - wenn auch nur für wenige Augenblicke - in Atem hielt."


Race Results Paul Heinemann 1937-1939 (all: Sportscars, BMW 328)
Sources: Martin Krejci`s database with additional infos from the book: R. Simons: BMW 328 - Vom Roadster zum Mythos, Munich 1996, pp. 318-320

1937
15.05. Chimay (B)
ns
13.06. Nürburgring Eifelrennen (D)
5. overall, 3. in class
20.06. Heilbronn, Wartberg-Rennen (D)
2. (in class?)
04.07. Monthléry (F)
ns
11.07. Landau, Taubensuhl-Rennen (D)
2. (in class?)
05.08. La Turbie Hillclimb (F)
1. (in class?)
11.09. Shelsley Walsh Hillclimb (GB)
1. (in class?)

1938
08.05. Hamburg, Stadtpark-Rennen (D)
1. (in class?)
22.05. Anvers (F)
3. in class
19.06. GP Bukarest (ROM)
1. (sportscars)
25.06. Romanian Record-Race (ROM)
1. (in class?)
10.07 24h Spa (B)
4. overall, 2. in class (with Adolf Brudes)
05.08. La Turbie Hillclimb (F)
1. (in class?)
10.10. Schwabenbergrennen (D)
4. (in class?)
16.10. Hockenheim Kurpfalzrennen
4. in class

1939
26.03. Tobruk-Tripolis (Libya / ITA)
? overall, 3. in class (with Uli Richter)
18.06. 24 h LeMans (F)
7. overall, 2. in class (with Ralph Roese)
25.06. GP Bukarest (ROM)
1. overall
09.07. Rund um Schotten (D)
3. (in class?)
23.07. Liege-Chamonix-Liege (B/F)
1. (in class?), with Krings

[eukie]

Oops, I forgot the pictures included in the Paul Heinemann-portrait:



The left one is entitled "Paul Heinemann nach dem Gewinn des rumänischen Landesrekords 1939"

[Holger Merten]

Very interesting, Heinsberg, not far from where I grow up (Grenzlandring was about 25 -30 km). Last picture at the Grossglockner Deutscher Bergpreis in 1938 or '39. Interesting, thanks for posting them.

As a works driver for BMW and O.N.S. (does that mean for NSKK like Huschke Von Hanstein) he had great chances to make carreer in the silver arrows team. Perhaps and if possible and if good enough.

[Marcor]

Paul Heinemann in 1935, as "ausweisfahrer", BMW
June 30, Kesselberg, 1st Sport 1500 cc, 4m 36s
Freiburg-i-Breslau (Grosser bergpreis von Deutschland), 1st Sport 2 L, 10 m 34s 2
Feldbergrennen, 2nd Sport 1500 cc, 8m 34s 3

I have no records for 1936.

Additional details

1937
June 13, Nürburgring Eifelrennen (D), 5th overall, 3rd in Sport 2 L, 1h 04m 29s 6 (106.1 km/h)
June 20, Heilbronn, Wartberg-Rennen (D), 2nd in Sport 2 L (100.7 km/h)
August 5, La Turbie (F), 1st in Sport 2 L, BMW #58, 4m 20s

1938
May 8, Hamburg, Stadtpark-Rennen (D), 1st in Sport 2 L, 12 laps = 72.72 km, 118.3 km/h
May 22, Anvers (Belgium), 3rd in Sport 2 L, BMW #34, 81 laps (- 3 laps), 4h 07' 45s, 117.8 km/h
July 9-10, 24h de Belgique (Spa, Belgium), 4th overall, 2nd Sport 2 L, BMW #44 (with Adolf Brudes), 111.48 km/h
July 24, Nurburgring supporting races, 3rd Sport 2 L, 109.6 km/h
August 5, La Turbie Hillclimb (F), 1. (in class?), I don't know the result but he was entered in the Sport 2 L class, BMW #50

1939
March 26, Litoranea Libica (Tobruk-Tripoli, Libya / ITA), ? overall, 3rd in Sport 2 L (with Uli Richter), 133.9 km/h
May 7, Hamburg Stadt-Rennen (D), DNF Sport 2 L
June 18, 24 h LeMans (F), 7th overall, , 2nd in Sport 2 L BMW #27 (with Ralph Roese), 129.457 km/h
July 7th, Rund um Schotten (D), 3rd in Sport 2 L, 113 km/h

[Holger Merten]

Wow, impressing what we can learn on TNF. Thanks Marc.

[eukie]

Maybe it would be fitting to add some results of Ralph Roese, too - again taken from M.Krejci's database and Simons' BMW 328-book. I suppose that they can be extented like in Heinemann`s case (thank you, Marc!).

Pre-war (and during the war, off course) :

1937
18.04. Eifel Geländeprüfung (D)
1. overall? (BMW 328)
15.05. Chimay (B)
2. overall (BMW 328)
13.06. Nürburgring Eifelrennen (D)
? overall, 2. in class SC 1.5l (BMW 315/1)
29.08. Hohensyburg Dreieckrennen (D)
3. in class? (BMW 328)

1938
22.05. Anvers (F)
1. overall (BMW 328)
05.06. Chimay (B)
1. overall? (BMW 328)
10.07. 24 h Spa (B)
3. overall, 1. in class SC 2l, with Max zu Schaumburg-Lippe (BMW 328)
24.07. Villa Real (P)
4. overall? (BMW 328)
16.10. Hockenheim Kurpfalzrennen (D)
1. in class SC 1.5l (BMW 315)

1939
26.03. Litoranea Libica Tobruk-Tripoli (Libya/ITA)
? overall, 2. in class SC 2l, with Max zu Schaumburg-Lippe (BMW 328)
28.05. Chimay (B)
1. overall (BMW 328)
18.06. 24h LeMans (F)
7. overall, 2. in class SC 2l, with Paul Heinemann (BMW 328)
03.09. Belgrad (JU)
3. in class? (BMW 328)

German Sportscar Champion 1.5l class, BMW 315

1940
28.04. Mille Miglia (I)
3. overall, with Adolf Brudes (BMW 328 spider)

[Holger Merten]

We have some well know BMW 328 specialists here on TNF, they are from Germany, but they won't post into this thread?

Nothing to add on?

[David McKinney]

Haven't checked your pre-war records against mine (yet), but can add the following (all in Veritas RS) :

1948
09.05 - 2 overall sportscar race Hockenheim
15.08 - 3 overall sportscar race Schotten
05.09 - 3 sportscar class Eggberg hillclimb

1949
29.05 - 2 overall Eifelpokalrennen sportscar race
12.06 - 5 overall sportscar race Rund um Schotten
08.08 - 4 overall sportscar race NüÙrburgring
11.09 - 1 overall sportscar race Grenzlandring

[uechtel]

eukie, again another very interesting story!

I´m low on time tonight, so I´m not able to get into the stats too deep, but have you already tried the BMW historic online-archive . Simple guest login allows you access to a hundred or so excellent pictures, among them of course also Roese and Heinemann.

[Holger Merten]

Ahh our specialist is "low on time"... that's the reason, hi uechtel. I was wondering, that you didn't go into this discussion?

[uechtel]

Time to join in more properly, although I am still quite in hurry. So I try to work thorugh the thread systematically.

Thanks again eukie for the biography. So far I did not know very much of this man. Although this passage sounds doubtful:

Er hatte zwar das Glück, relativ gesund den Krieg zu überstehen, aber für den Neuanfang seiner Karriere war es leider zu spät. Als Glück im Unglück empfand er die Tatsache, dass sein BMW unbeschadet den Krieg überstanden hatte. Ihn hatte er während der Kriegsjahre in einer Münchener Tiefgarage geparkt und im Jahre 1946 wiedergefunden. Nach der Überführung nach Geilenkirchen konnte er seinen berühmten Sportwagen mit dem Kennzeichen „IZ 33333" zwar noch einige Jahre fahren, doch war die Zeit der Rennen vorbei.

Translation (in brief): "He ws lucky to survive the war unhurt, but now it was too late for him to revive his career. He regarded himself lucky enough, that his BMW had endured the war without damage, when he found it again in 1946 in the garage where he had parked it. After transfer to Geilenkirchen he was able to drive the famous sports car with the number plate "IZ 33333" for a few years, but the time of the races was over"

Too late for continuing the career? The man was born in 1911! Ask Hans Stuck, Karl Kling or Juan Manuel the Great.

Racing started over in Germany almost as soon as everywhere else and in the beginning the BMW 328 was a very competitive thing. Also there were new number plates in Germany under the allied rule immediately after the war, so continuing with "IZ 33333" sounds unlikely.




Should be Eifelrennen 1937 where he finished third.



Holger, right, that´s at the Großglockner hillclimb in 1939, driving for the NSKK team (as you can see by the eagle emblem on the door). But sorry to correct you, he was no team mate of von Hanstein, as the latter was driving under SS insignia.

Also I had posted this picture already in the Vorster thread

[eukie]

Hello again, uechtel! - I think the statement about the impossibility of a postwar career is as weak as the whole article, which is why I avoided the task of translating it. There must be hundreds of drivers of the same age who continued after 1945! The author is clearly no motorracing expert but at best a regional historian (“Heimatforscher”) – nothing bad about that!, and a nice tribute anyway, but it shows once again the necessity to dig deeper.

Holger: Nice to have touched your “Heimat”-feelings. If one concentrated on well-known drivers of that region, still today or in younger history there seems to be a remarkable concentration in the neighbouring towns of Mönchengladbach and Wegberg (for example HH Frentzen, the Heidfelds, Ellen Lohr or Hans Heyer, whose concrete-work-trucks today rule the streets in the whole area!) and I don`t think it as far fetched as it may sound that it could have something to do with the Grenzlandring-tradition. And although I´m not very much interested in bikes: One of Germany’s prime motorbikeracers in the 1920s and 1930s (in the bigger classes, riding Harley Davidsons) originated from Erkelenz: Paul Rüttchen – after the war he was involved in the Grenzlandring-organisation, too.

But back to Heinemann & Roese: Concerning the picture in the Vorster thread: since the man with cap in the middle seems to be Teddy Vorster (by comparison with the other – later - pictures of him I have seen in the meantime), is Heinemann the man leaning on the Assenheimer-MG?

By the way: Apart from visiting the BMW online-archive (thanks for mentioning it!) and the other BMW328-threads maybe I should finally read (and not only browse) Simons’ book which I bought some weeks ago via ZVAB (not too expensive at 30 Euros) or Anthony Blights`s French Sports Car Revolution (but this would require a sabbatical from work, I`m afraid) ... But: Am I wrong with my impression that there still is relatively little occupation with german motorracing of the 1930s beyond the Mercedes/Autounion-“silver arrows”-theme, and maybe the Mille Miglia 1940-saga? Aside from Heinemann and Roese, whom I picked by pure chance, and maybe von Hanstein and the Bäumers there should be a lot of other drivers and even teams (Adler, Hanomag etc.) worth a story. Or the races itself: For a starter, maybe some helping hand in TNF is able to explain what races counted toward Roese`s 1939 SportsCar championship, and give us even some results?

[uechtel]

Simon´s book is indeed the best I have seen so far on the subject. It´s really worth every cent you spent on it.

And you are right, it seems that the surviving companies succeeded in generating the impression, that the complete history of German motorsport is owned by them totally.

I think there can be find something on Adler (Le Mans streamliners) by googleing, also there are a number of pages on them in von hanstein´s biography.

[uechtel]

Some additions to the results:

Originally posted by Marcor
Paul Heinemann in 1935, as "ausweisfahrer", BMW

1937
June 13, Nürburgring Eifelrennen (D), 5th overall, 3rd in Sport 2 L, 1h 04m 29s 6 (106.1 km/h)
June 20, Heilbronn, Wartberg-Rennen (D), 2nd in Sport 2 L (100.7 km/h)
August 5, La Turbie (F), 1st in Sport 2 L, BMW #58, 4m 20s

all in his BMW 328.

In addition I have
29.8.1937 Dreieckrennen Hohensyburg (D), BMW 328 (#31)
12.9.1937 Shelseley Walsh (GB), BMW 328 (#31)
both cases no result information, but pictures in the BMW archive

1938
May 8, Hamburg, Stadtpark-Rennen (D), 1st in Sport 2 L, 12 laps = 72.72 km, 118.3 km/h
May 22, Anvers (Belgium), 3rd in Sport 2 L, BMW #34, 81 laps (- 3 laps), 4h 07' 45s, 117.8 km/h
July 9-10, 24h de Belgique (Spa, Belgium), 4th overall, 2nd Sport 2 L, BMW #44 (with Adolf Brudes), 111.48 km/h
July 24, Nurburgring supporting races, 3rd Sport 2 L, 109.6 km/h
August 5, La Turbie Hillclimb (F), 1. (in class?), I don't know the result but he was entered in the Sport 2 L class, BMW #50

Anvers: As member of the NSKK team for the first time

19.6.1938 GP Bucarest (RO), BMW 328, 1st sports car class

1939
March 26, Litoranea Libica (Tobruk-Tripoli, Libya / ITA), ? overall, 3rd in Sport 2 L (with Uli Richter), 133.9 km/h
May 7, Hamburg Stadt-Rennen (D), DNF Sport 2 L
June 18, 24 h LeMans (F), 7th overall, , 2nd in Sport 2 L BMW #27 (with Ralph Roese), 129.457 km/h
July 7th, Rund um Schotten (D), 3rd in Sport 2 L, 113 km/h

#43 at Hamburg

21.5.1939 Eifelrennen Nürburgring (D), BMW 328 (no result, entry list only)
25.6.1939 Bucarest GB (RO), BMW 328, 1st sports car class
6.8.1939 Großer Bergpreis Großglockner (D / A), BMW 328, no result, but picture...


Ralph Roese

1937
18.04. Eifel Geländeprüfung (D)
1. overall? (BMW 328)
15.05. Chimay (B)
2. overall (BMW 328)
13.06. Nürburgring Eifelrennen (D)
? overall, 2. in class SC 1.5l (BMW 315/1)
29.08. Hohensyburg Dreieckrennen (D)
3. in class? (BMW 328)

Hohensyburg: 3rd in class = 3rd overall

1938
22.05. Anvers [b](B!)
1. overall (BMW 328)
05.06. Chimay (B)
1. overall? (BMW 328)
10.07. 24 h Spa (B)
3. overall, 1. in class SC 2l, with Max zu Schaumburg-Lippe (BMW 328)
24.07. Villa Real (P)
4. overall? (BMW 328)
16.10. Hockenheim Kurpfalzrennen (D)
1. in class SC 1.5l (BMW 315)

Anvers is in Belgium (Antwerpen in German)!
Chimay: 1st in sports car race

1939
26.03. Litoranea Libica Tobruk-Tripoli (Libya/ITA)
? overall, 2. in class SC 2l, with Max zu Schaumburg-Lippe (BMW 328)
28.05. Chimay (B)
1. overall (BMW 328)
18.06. 24h LeMans (F)
7. overall, 2. in class SC 2l, with Paul Heinemann (BMW 328)
03.09. Belgrad (JU)
3. in class? (BMW 328)

German Sportscar Champion 1.5l class, BMW 315

7.5.1939: Hamburger Stadtparkrennen (D), BMW 315/1 Spezial, 2nd 1.5 litre class
21.5.1939: Eifelrennen Nürburgring (D), BMW 315/1 Spezial, 1st 1.5 litre class

1940
28.04. Mille Miglia (I)
3. overall, with Adolf Brudes (BMW 328 spider)

post war races on Veritas RS 2 litre:

1948
09.05 - 2 overall sportscar race Hockenheim
15.08 - 3 overall sportscar race Schotten
05.09 - 3 sportscar class Eggberg hillclimb

30.5.1948: Kölner Kurs (D), Veritas RS, dnf (retired on lap 6)
12.9.1948: Nürnberg (D), Veritas RS, dnf
19.9.1948: Gernzlandring (D), Veritas RS, dna

1949
29.05 - 2 overall Eifelpokalrennen sportscar race
12.06 - 5 overall sportscar race Rund um Schotten
08.08 - 4 overall sportscar race NüÙrburgring
11.09 - 1 overall sportscar race Grenzlandring

8.5.1949: Maipokal Hockenheim (D), Veritas RS #15, no result
31.7.1949: Großer Bergpreis Schauinsland (D), Veritas RS, no result
18.9.1949: Solitude (D), Veritas RS, dna (started at Saarbrücken)
18.9.1949: Saarbrücken (Saar / D), Veritas RS, 2nd
2.10.1949: Kölner Kurs (D), Veritas RS #15, dnf (lap 7)

and I have 22.5. as date for the Eifelpokal


Died in a traffic accident on 8.2.1950

[eukie]

wow, this looks great - I hope the grandson of Roese comes by and transfers these findings onto his website (I sent him an e-mail and he proposed to have a look)!

[Holger Merten]

I think our specialist is back. Wonderful pictures and informations, thanks uechel.

BTW. I'm not a spespecialist in this case, but veryx interested. Therefor some comments. Did you have a sharper look at the plates of both cars. Is ist possible , that they have the same number? A new car with the same number, or a number excchanged to the new car? Any comments about this.



I'm especially interested in your comments about the second picture. Would you please comment a little bit more about who, when, where, why? Uechtels file-name brings up the Nürburgring?

Thanks in advance?

[uechtel]

Same license because it is the same car. This is Heinemann´s private BMW, so he used a different car when he started for the NSKK.

The picture is from Simons´ BMW Roadster book and the caption says it shows Vorster, Heinemann and Assenheimer on their way to the Nürburgring. By deducting from the start numbers I came to the 1939 race.

This would also fit, as Heinemann´s car does not carry a number, as he started for the NSKK at this event (No. 4 in the following picture)

[eukie]

Being short on time I only managed to have a quick look. Amusing that in a BMW328-titled thread the picture we recently examined contains only one of these ubiquitous sportscars, but two MGs! OK, the 328 shown here is a private road car (but even used in races too; BTW the dark colour was green, if we assume it is the same car listed under chassis number "85007" in the Simons-book, p314), and normally was in another class as the MGs of 1100ccm or 1500ccm. Nevertheless up came another thought (still having in mind Emil Vorster ...) : Who after all was running MGs on more or less a regulary basis in the Germany of the 1930s? Not the most common of sportscars even in the smaller classes, I think. Besides Vorster and Assenheimer I recollect Wiswedel (from Berlin, 3. in the 1939 German Championship 1500 ccm class behind Roese and Kathrein, and in front of Heinz Mölders in another MG), Verheyen from Düsseldorf, Adolf Brudes and of course Robert "Bobby" Kohlrausch. English thoroughbred against the common Fiats and BMW 315s/328s? Regarding Vorster I tend to think that he was a personality looking for extravaganza and modernity, and he reportedly had renowned taste in arts and design. Somewhat fitting to the MG-image, at least of today. Am I going to far?

[uechtel]

Sorry, "German" MGs in the 1930 and I am absolutely blank.

Recently Holger discovered this link to a site about the Hamburger Statdparkrennen with a lot of result tables and further MG drivers mentioned, so this will probably of interesting for you.

[uechtel]

Well, it worked yesterday...

[eukie]

As to the Stadtparkrennen-website: funny, we shared the same idea and the same frustation yesterday - but today it is working again! A very nice site, indeed! -- The German MG Car Club has a cumulative index of his magazine on his website: http://www.mgcc.de/data/kurindex.pdf - they have published longer articles on Kohlrausch and Mölders by Hagen Nyncke; it seems that I must try to get them. The only MG of note in the German Post-War sportscar-races was the one of Heinz-Gerd Jäger. Vorster raced his old MG (of 1936-origin) sometimes in 1947/48 (?) until he received his AFMs. In the Grenzlandringrennen 1948 he handed it to his clubmate Weeke.

[uechtel]

Originally posted by eukie
As to the Stadtparkrennen-website: funny, we shared the same idea and the same frustation yesterday - but today it is working again! A very nice site, indeed! -- The German MG Car Club has a cumulative index of his magazine on his website: http://www.mgcc.de/data/kurindex.pdf - they have published longer articles on Kohlrausch and Mölders by Hagen Nyncke; it seems that I must try to get them. The only MG of note in the German Post-War sportscar-races was the one of Heinz-Gerd Jäger. Vorster raced his old MG (of 1936-origin) sometimes in 1947/48 (?) until he received his AFMs. In the Grenzlandringrennen 1948 he handed it to his clubmate Weeke.

Well, MGs were very a backbone of the smaller sports cars post war almost like the BMW was in the 2 liter class.

Post-war I have the following (incomplete) list of MG drivers (1500 cc class only):

1947
Hans Pfisterer
Heinz-Gerd Jäger
Heinz Mölders
Albert Farr
Joachim zu Fürstenberg

1948
Heinz-Gerd Jäger
Franz Bumke
Joachim zu Fürstenberg

1949
Heinz-Gerd Jäger
Franz Bumke
Joachim zu Fürstenberg

1950
Heinz-Gerd Jäger
Willi Sturzebecher

1951
Willi Sturzebecher
Heinz-Gerd Jäger

[uechtel]

Coming to Roese´s post war career I have still problems to identify his car, as the sources seem to contradict each other.

The easiest way to identify him would certainly be this first picture, showing the full face of the driver.



The picture is from Rosellen´s "Veritas Story", which is alas extremely unreliable in the captions, but perhaps he is right on this occasion.

The problem is, that I have not found a clearly identified picture of Roese yet to compare.

What I have is another picture, clearly of the same car (the colour scheme of the headlight covers!), but without any further infromation whose car it is



With the forest in the background both pictures fit very well to Hockenheim and 1948 where Roese´s car carried No. 12.


So far so good, but now this is what Simons says to be Roese´s car at Hockenheim in 1948:



No. 12 would again fit, but besides that this is a total different car! The bars in the radiator are horizontal compared to the vertical ones in the pictures above and also the airbox inlet seems to be slightly different.

What speaks in favour of Simons is that Roese did indeed start a number of races with No. 12 in 1948 (switched to #8 at the end of the season), while the number does not fit to any other Veritas in my archive (Bossong had the number regularily throughout 1949, but his car is clearly different).


But that´s not yet all, as I think this picture shows the front row at Cologne 1948 with No. 12 Roese in the center:



And I tend towards Rosellen again.


But a few pages later he has this picture with Roese standing on the left:



This is again a different car (less radiator bars than on the first pictures).


And to get the mess completed I have also this one, showing the start in Hockenheim 1949. According to my information Roese started from second position on the grid, so should be car No. 15:

[eukie]

I don`t know if this bit of info is new or of any use: in 1950 Josef Peters. also from Düsseldorf, took over Roese`s Veritas (source: Grenzlandring-Newspaper-Reports)

[uechtel]

That IS of use! Thanks a lot!

So we have a few more pictures



Car #15 at Hockenheim in 1951





At the Avus he had #115.




Nürnberg




and finally Rostock in 1952 (#129)


In particular the last picture shows the radiator bars very much the same like at the "No. 8" picture of Rosellen. So the quetsion remains whether it is Roese´s face on the first picture.

[eukie]

If you compare the face on the first picture with the man named "Roese" on the group-photos of the 1940 Mille Miglia BMW-Team, he looks very much the same to me.

http://mitglied.lyco...gliaTeam_40.jpg

[uechtel]

Yes, I think you are right. But if so, then either his car must have had some stylistic change around summer 1948 or he must have exchanged his original car to a later model.

If you compare the pictures the early ones taken in 1948 show a car with those vertical bars and out headrest (also on this one ), while the later pictures (in particular those of Peters) show vertical bars (of less density) and headrest.

Also the air outlets at the side seem to be in another configuration at the 1949 Hockenheim picture, so I doubt, whether it´s actually him with No. 15. Of course an entry list could be again helpful here.

[eukie]

Ralph Roese at Schottenring 1931:



According to Seiff: der Schottenring, p26: Starting Grid of the 1000ccm-class: #90 Roese (BMW 750 Kompr) #89 Helmut Teich (BMW 750 Kompr.) #87 Robby Jecker (Harley Davidson) #94 Paul Weyres (Harley Davidson) - Weyres (from Aachen) won that race and went on to drive Neander sportscars in the later 1930s - #92 Paul Rüttchen (NSU 600)

[uechtel]

Roese at the Eifelrennen in 1936


from "Sieg in tausend Rennen - Die BMW-Story" by Winfried Schnitzler