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Silverstone in 1973


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#1 my_own_shadow

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 08:43

Two days ago I red about the British 1973 Grand Prix, about Jody Scheckter have trebled a huge blockage at the end of the first lap. But I didn't understand who was in the lead after the first lap before the stop of race. I hope, you know it.

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#2 Gary C

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 08:51

It was Jackie Stewart and Ronnie Peterson, wasn't it??

#3 Leif Snellman

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 10:40

Yes, Stewart, Peterson, Reutemann, Scheckter. Then Scheckter coming out from Woodcote spins to the right 450 degrees before hitting the pitwall and slides backwards to the middle of the track. Six cars manage to pass to the left of Scheckter (even if one takes Scheckter's rear wing off I think) and one to the right. Then ...

#4 Vitesse2

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 10:51

.... total chaos. I was watching on TV: BBC's coverage kept jumping from the grid to the leaders and back to the grid again. I was screaming "RED FLAG!!" at the screen (as if anyone could hear :rolleyes: ), thinking "they've got less than a minute to stop this ...." Jackie and Ronnie seemed to be oblivious to what had happened behind them and I don't think the red went out until they were already through Abbey and accelerating down towards Woodcote again ....

#5 Pedro 917

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 11:25

As an 18-year old boy, I witnessed that race and was standing above the Lotus pit, Maria Helena Fittipaldi right in front of me. I"ll never forget that accident. Scheckter, who was in third or fourth position IIRC, went wide going through Woodcote and hit the grass, spun of to the inside, hit the pitwall and came to a standstill in the middle of the track, right in front of us. He was waving both arms like hell. But I'll never forget the white of his eyes. He was certainly aware of the danger he was in as Woodcote was taken flat-out at the time. Some cars managed to get by but then suddenly all hell broke loose. Debris and dust all over the place, cars crashing into eachother and then a sudden silence, like a frozen moment in time with only the noise of the cars that went through in the background. Fittipaldi's wife was in shock and went hysterical. Barbrö Peterson had to take care of her. We were all pretty sure that lives were lost in that crash but happily, no-one got even seriously injured, a true miracle. I believe that Beltoise or De Adamich was injured. It was an expensive crash for Team Surtees as they lost 3 cars and it was also Roger Williamson's first GP (he also got involved in that crash). It took quite some time to clean up the mess and I recall missing the end of the race as I had to catch a train. Peter Revson, Scheckter's teammate, took victory.

#6 CSGPR

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 14:09

Hi Pedro

Emerson had a big accident in Holland but I don’t recall if that was before or after the British GP, if the British GP took place after the accident in Holland Maria-Helena's reaction is understandable but if not she must have lived fear, but that not the impression you get when you looked at her. By the way where was Emerson in all this, as I recall he was not involved in the accident.

kind regards :wave:

#7 WGD706

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Posted 27 November 2003 - 17:30

The Dutch GP was on July 29, 1973 while the British GP was on July 14th. At Zandvoort, Fittipaldi crashed heavily on Saturday and suffered serious bruises to his ankles.He qualified 16th but retired after 2 laps due to discomfort. Unfortunately, it was on lap 7 when Roger Williamson had his fatal accident.
Warren

#8 d.c.a. mulcahy

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 06:34

In Formula 1 - The Autobiography edited by Gerry Donaldson there is a great quote:

John Surtees: "That man has just wiped out my entire Formula 1 team."

I wonder if that is the original quote or the one after the swear words have been removed.

#9 theunions

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 08:56

Originally posted by Pedro 917
I believe that Beltoise or De Adamich was injured.


Andrea suffered multiple leg injuries.

#10 petefenelon

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 11:47

Originally posted by d.c.a. mulcahy
In Formula 1 - The Autobiography edited by Gerry Donaldson there is a great quote:

John Surtees: "That man has just wiped out my entire Formula 1 team."

I wonder if that is the original quote or the one after the swear words have been removed.



...actually a surprisingly good book, I got a copy for 15 quid (rrp 35) the other weekend - some nice pictures and quite a few quotes I'd not previously seen. Design's a bit fussy, but on the whole I like it a lot - it's not too wrapped up in the post-Senna era, as many mass-market F1 books are.

#11 maxie

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 13:26

IIRC, the classification for that race was based on aggregate times, right?

#12 Vitesse2

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 13:59

Originally posted by maxie
IIRC, the classification for that race was based on aggregate times, right?

Nope. The race was restarted over the full distance and the first start was ignored. The remaining cars reformed on the grid in their original positions.

#13 Twin Window

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Posted 18 July 2004 - 21:18

I was watchiing from between the bridge and Copse and Jeez, what a mess it was... and over an hour and a half to clean up. The crash has been documented many times, but I don't remember anyone ever mentioning Rikki von Opel, who had suffered a burst water pipe or similar on the Ensign. By the time he got to Copse, he was standing up in the cockpit...!

I'm pretty sure it was Revson who clipped Scheckter's wing, and when it came down to earth it so very nearly hit James Hunt full in the face. As it was it hit his airbox, which is why he was using a different style [yellow] spare from Beuttler's team for the restart (below - sorry about the quality!). Pleas note; a BRM (Lauda) is second. :up:

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And, contrary to popular belief, it was the massive impact into the back of Beltoise's BRM which broke de Adamich's ankle, not contact with the sleepers. I've got a bit of Belty's P160 oil rad fairing from that day...

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Twinny

#14 petefenelon

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Posted 18 July 2004 - 22:05

Originally posted by Twin Window

And, contrary to popular belief, it was the massive impact into the back of Beltoise's BRM which broke de Adamich's ankle, not contact with the sleepers. I've got a bit of Belty's P160 oil rad fairing from that day...

Posted Image

Twinny


As a Johnny Cash fan I'm forced to ask, are you going for a "One Piece At A Time" approach to building an F1 car?;)

http://www.toptown.c...66/onepiece.htm

#15 Twin Window

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Posted 18 July 2004 - 23:12

Originally posted by petefenelon


As a Johnny Cash fan I'm forced to ask, are you going for a "One Piece At A Time" approach to building an F1 car?;)

Yes, as it's the only avenue left open to me!

Unfortunately, I had to sell my 'bigger bits' in '77 which can be seen here - with relevant explanations.

So, I've got to start again with my 'small bits' :| , all of which can be seen here - with their backgrounds.

Please, everybody; feel free to send me any unwanted bits for this thankless (and equally hopeless) task. :)

Twinny :up:

#16 JtP

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 01:00

JYS by a country mile. Forget all the Peterson through Woodcote stories. JYS through there on the first lap was just amazing, but it is all lost in the accident. There is overhead footage of JYS through Woodcote that is rarely shown as it cuts to the accident. JYS must have pulled out 3 seconds in the last half of the lap. How does a full blooded sideways drift at 160mph+ grab you, not just hang the tail on the power.

#17 TFBundy

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 01:24

A mechanic who was around at the time told me the anecdote about the first lap accident that Scheckter was still being 'tested' as an outsider at the time. As told to me, two other drivers [the JPS pair?] made sure he overheard them saying that they were flat round Woodcote even on full tanks! So allegedly he decided he could take it flat too from the off ....

It might even be true ....

#18 Wolfess

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 01:54

Might be too. ;) Who knows.

#19 David Lawson

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 09:46

I was at Becketts in 73 and my view of the first lap and the re-started opening lap are here in my very dodgy quality b&w photos taken on my trusty ZenithE fitted with a Dixons Prinzflex bottle glass telephoto lens and teleconvertor.

Posted Image

Posted Image

David

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#20 SEdward

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 12:10

Dodgy equipment maybe, but marvellous photos.

I was at that race too and I enjoyed it immensely. One of the best GPs I have ever seen in situ. I've never really understood all the palaver about Peterson that weekend, when Stewart and Revson proved themselves to faster. How come Reutemann was third after the first start? He must have made a scorcher. What was his grid position?

My abiding memories from that meeting: Niki Lauda in the lead after the restart in a BRM. JYS combine harvesting. The Brodie-Matthews incident, which happened not far from where I was standing.

Edward.

#21 maxim

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 14:34

Originally posted by Twin Window

...I don't remember anyone ever mentioning Rikki von Opel, who had suffered a burst water pipe or similar on the Ensign. By the time he got to Copse, he was standing up in the cockpit...!

Twinny


I've always wondered :confused: why Rikki hastily unfastened his seatbelt and stood up in the cockpit.
Another mistery solved by TNF :up:

#22 toprpm

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 16:10

Great photos, David and Twinny!

#23 FrankB

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 16:10

Originally posted by Vitesse2
[B...I don't think the red went out until they were already through Abbey and accelerating down towards Woodcote again .... [/B]


I was near Abbey, and although we could tell that something had occurred at the end of the first lap from the frantic but unclear commentary (when will Silverstone improve their PA systems?), I don't recall any flags being shown as JYS went by flat out.

#24 Twin Window

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 21:14

Originally posted by David Lawson
I was at Becketts in 73 and my view of the first lap and the re-started opening lap are here in my very dodgy quality b&w photos taken on my trusty ZenithE...

Hey; mine were taken on a Polaroid Instamatic, which I got free with a rather large (and suitably overpriced) bag of 'Liquorice Allsorts' circa 1969! I didn't get my Zenit E for another four years...

Posted Image

And just in case anyone missed it, that's a BRM in second place... (but, sadly, my semi-orgasmic state on the day wasn't to last too long : )

Twinny :up:

Bring back the 70s! (please)

#25 SEdward

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 06:09

Remember that Lauda got by Peterson and led the race for a couple of laps. This had everyone rushing for their programmes wondering "who's that in the lead?"

Edward

#26 Twin Window

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 08:50

Did he? Really? Honestly, I don't remember that... I must have fainted!

Twinny

#27 SEdward

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 12:28

Errr...

No he didn't. I've just checked my 1973 Autocourse, and Lauda never led that race. I could have sworn that he did. Obviously father time playing tricks with the old memory and a bit of wishful thinking thrown in there too!!

Apologies.
Edward.

#28 philippe7

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 13:37

Originally posted by SEdward
Errr...

No he didn't. I've just checked my 1973 Autocourse, and Lauda never led that race. I could have sworn that he did. Obviously father time playing tricks with the old memory and a bit of wishful thinking thrown in there too!!

Apologies.
Edward.


Edward. Did you not attend the 1973 race of Champions at Brand's Hatch , by chance ? That may be where the confusion originates.....it was my first ever F1 race , and I very much remember that in fact two BRM's led the race , after "taking" the lead from Peterson ( well , he retired, in fact....) ....but it was Beltoise who led from Niki for a couple of laps , and then Lauda took the lead when Beltoise had a puncture.

Same players , but different race....

#29 SEdward

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 13:48

Philippe,

Yup. I was there.

Beltoise certainly led that race from pole position, but I don't think that Lauda ever did. Anyway, it was a good one, with Gethin's F5000 car coming home first (he took the lead at Paddock Bend on the last lap!) just ahead of Hulme and F1 débutant, James Hunt.

Edward

#30 Twin Window

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 15:12

Originally posted by SEdward
Yup. I was there.

So was I; it was a great weekend wasn't it! Remember the grid...?

1/ Beltoise BRM

2/ Lauda BRM

3/ Schuppan BRM

Deep, deep joy..!

Twinny

#31 SEdward

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 15:24

... that saw JPB carting off 100 bottles of bubbly back where they came from.

It was, indeed, a fine event. As was the International Trophy, just a couple of weeks later. Mike the Bike could (should) have won both of them.

Edward.

#32 Rob Ryder

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 07:37

http://homepage.ntlw....com/rob.ryder/ ;)

#33 philippe7

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 09:28

Originally posted by Twin Window
So was I; it was a great weekend wasn't it! Remember the grid...?

1/ Beltoise BRM

2/ Lauda BRM

3/ Schuppan BRM

Deep, deep joy..!

Twinny



.......Vern Schuppan who left the track at Clearways and smacked the Armco-lined earthbank a hefty blow , right where I was spectating.....I was quite shocked by the strength and noise of the impact ! I still clearly remember him wildly shaking the wheel of his understeering BRM ( you could still see a tiny bit of the driver's arms or hands then ...) , hopelessly trying to get the car back in line !


At the same place the year after, good old Henri Pescarolo also did quite well in the rain , .....I was enthusiastic about the brand new bright green and silver livery of his P160, which was a welcome change from the dull dark "British Racing" (?) green that the cars had sported for the South American GP tour...

#34 Paul Taylor

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 11:54

A cameraman was standing and filming at the end of the pitwall and was very very nearly hit by Williamson's car, which was shooting past sideways at high speed after being involved in the mayhem.

#35 dolomite

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 16:34

Originally posted by Rob Ryder
http://homepage.ntlw....com/rob.ryder/ ;)


:up: :up: :up: Great pix, Rob!

#36 toprpm

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 17:41

I like your photos, Rob! :love:

#37 David Lawson

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 19:25

Excellent photos and extremely nostalgic, I've just enjoyed reliving those races with your images. I had completely forgotten about that Tyrrell nose on the spare car.

David

#38 Rob Ryder

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 19:33

Thanks guys :blush: :blush:

#39 Don Capps

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 19:46

I will admit to enjoying mentioning this event from time to time when I was speaking with Jody Scheckter. I tried to ensure that it was brought up whenever we were in the midst of a program review or other related sort of meeting while I was at HQDA and Jody was still at FATS.

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#40 Mallory Dan

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Posted 22 July 2004 - 12:17

Originally posted by Don Capps
I will admit to enjoying mentioning this event from time to time when I was speaking with Jody Scheckter. I tried to ensure that it was brought up whenever we were in the midst of a program review or other related sort of meeting while I was at HQDA and Jody was still at FATS.


At the last contemporary meeting I went to, Oulton spring 2000, I saw Jody who was there with Tomas in F3. I got him to sign my prog, before he did so, I wrote "Woodcote '73" next to where I thought he'd sign. He feigned not to notice what I'd written when he signed ... !

#41 Henri Greuter

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Posted 22 July 2004 - 12:28

Originally posted by WGD706
The Dutch GP was on July 29, 1973 while the British GP was on July 14th. At Zandvoort, Fittipaldi crashed heavily on Saturday and suffered serious bruises to his ankles.He qualified 16th but retired after 2 laps due to discomfort. Unfortunately, it was on lap 7 when Roger Williamson had his fatal accident.
Warren




maybe another Dutch member or one of our German reading members has the book Grand Prix Story 73 by Heinz Prüller at hand to verify who said the following.
I don't have access to the book right now but it described the British GP and how miraculously only de Adamich was injured.
But after that fateful Dutch GP, and remembering that Roger Wiliamson was one of the drivers involved in the crash at Silverstone someone had said something like:

"Ït was Roger's bad luck that he didn't break a thumb at Silverstone"

I believe it was at the end of the Silverstone chapter within the mentioned Prüller book he reproduced that comment and also told who said it.


Henri Greuter

#42 David Beard

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Posted 22 July 2004 - 18:17

Originally posted by Mallory Dan


At the last contemporary meeting I went to, Oulton spring 2000, I saw Jody who was there with Tomas in F3. I got him to sign my prog, before he did so, I wrote "Woodcote '73" next to where I thought he'd sign. He feigned not to notice what I'd written when he signed ... !


You rotten git :lol:

#43 Alan Cox

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 20:56

An opportune moment to revive this thread, I feel, having been entrusted with some photos from Roger Ellis's collection, featuring the aftermath of the accident, including pics of the entire Surtees team.

Posted Image Carlos Pace's Surtees - front.....

Posted Image .....and rear

Posted Image Hailwood's Surtees

Posted Image Mass's Surtees, clothed in foam

Posted Image The clear up

Posted Image George Follmer back in the paddock

Posted Image Hunt interviewed by Barrie Gill

A chapter of accidents - Dave Matthews' Capri from the same meeting
Posted Image

All photos by Roger Ellis

#44 sterling49

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 21:16

Originally posted by Alan Cox
An opportune moment to revive this thread, I feel, having been entrusted with some photos from Roger Ellis's collection, featuring the aftermath of the accident, including pics of the entire Surtees team.
A chapter of accident - Dave Matthews' Capri from the same meeting
Posted Image

All photos by Roger Ellis


I was at the race, it was just the most amazing sequence of events ever, I felt sorry for all involved, but especially for the team from Edenbridge, it was disastrous. My memory gets cloudy these days, was it in the restart that JYS went harvesting? The saloons also continued a bad day for accidents, one of the weeklies at the time showed the Mathews Capri cartwheeling and (I think) the poor driver being flung out? What an away day from my usual venue, Brands Hatch.

#45 Twin Window

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 21:18

Originally posted by Alan Cox

Posted Image George Follmer back in the paddock


A chapter of accidents - Dave Matthews' Capri from the same meeting
Posted Image

That's Roger Silman with Follmer.

In the Matthews' Capri pic you can see Gavin Booth's Mini behind. From recollection, Brodie's Escort was sooo bad they didn't leave it outdoors - or if they did, they covered it PDQ. I saw it close-up, and you could not credit he'd survived. The engine was in the cabin...

Regarding the 'clear-up' pic, I think they're still in the process of extricating de Adamich.

Great pics, Roger! Any more...? :D

#46 scheivlak

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 21:40

the first part of the memorable 1973 British GP:
http://www.youtube.c...related&search=

followed by
http://www.youtube.c...related&search=
"And now he's really in the agricultural business"

#47 Alan Cox

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 22:07

Yes, Twinny, there are a few more paddock shots to be posted on Roger's behalf.

#48 Twin Window

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 23:53

Then I'm looking forward to seeing them already!

:up:

#49 Bonde

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 00:02

For those of you who's got 'Formula 1 in camera 1970-79', the remains of Beltoise's BRM are shown at the bottom of page 93. It was close to a mircale that the right hand bag tank on Belter's car wasn't punctured, even with the newly introduced 'deformable structures'. The full fuel tank got such a hefty blow from someone's wheel, it appears, that hydrodynamic ram simply pulled off the heads of all the rivets of the forward half of the outer tub skin, leaving the fuel cell exposed - as the fuel wouldn't compress when the bag was squeezed, something else had to give...

Also, it was very fortunate that whatever hit Beltoise's side (or maybe he hit something stationary?) didn't ride up that beautifully sloped side of the chassis and right into the side of the virtually unprotected cockpit...

#50 Twin Window

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 00:28

I'm not sure if this is relevant to your comment, Anders, but it was Beltoise who rammed de Adamich - and thus propelled him into the sleepers below the bridge.

But of course his BRM could have been hit by others too, in the overall meleé...