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#1 jph

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 14:50

Telling acquaintances who are not aficionados that my greatest motor sport interest is in things that happened in the third quarter of the last century often results in a quizzical expression, but with patient explanation some people begin to understand the case. The increasing Ecclestonisation of the sport means that more and more people now think that there are some sixteen Grands Prix each year and, er, that’s it.

Rarely, however, have I tried to explain an interest in racing car transporters and I doubt that there are many places outside these pages where I would stand any chance of finding a sympathetic ear. In just the same way that today’s Grand Prix cars are multi-coloured billboards where little other than the colour scheme enables ready distinction between different makes, so have the vehicles that carry them from event to event gradually become very exotic but less aesthetically interesting. The modern vehicles do not have the soul of some of the coach-built vehicles, or even converted coaches, which used to ply their trade across Europe and elsewhere.

Some of the better-known wagons continue to lead high-profile lives and have been written about in the comics: Dick Skipworth’s restoration and use of the Ecurie Ecosse vehicle, the continued appearance of the BRM Leyland Royal Tiger at historic meetings, Carlos Monteverde’s use of an ex-Scuderia Ferrari truck, an ex-BMC vehicle which appeared at Goodwood this year for example. Similarly, there have been some postings here recently about an ex-Tyrrell vehicle and there has been mention of the Italian Job coach which later, I believe, saw service as Tony Dean’s transporter, maybe of more than just racing cars.

Can anyone throw light on other historic transporters that continue to see service? For example, what was the fate of the (I believe) originally-Ferrari transporter that later saw service with both Shelby and Alan Mann? Does anyone know anything about the white Dennis with Jaguar signwriting, which looked like it might have started life as a fire engine, parked in the Goodwood paddock this year? What happened to the Commer truck ‘donated’ to Stirling Moss by the Rootes Group to carry his 250F (Did this later pass to Rob Walker and thence to Scirocco?)

I really must see a doctor.

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 15:03

You would have become apoplectic, then, at the sight of the regular transport used by the teams in the Tasman Cup series...

Between races in Australia, at least, with up to 1300 miles between venues on successive weekends, invaluable BRMs were strapped on grey trailers, flat-floored with checkerplate, low sides all around, ropes holding in spare wheels and the tailored orange covers over the cars.

Towing these were Avis Rent-a-truck Ford F100s in the obligatory red. They were in turn loaded down with spares and toolboxes.

But when it comes to an early example of the articulated transport for racing equipment in Australia, one always looks first at the fine effort put in by Malcolm Bailey...

#3 Holger Merten

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 15:13

Here is one. The restaurated Auto Union Trasnporter, a Büssing.

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And one original picture:
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#4 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 15:28

Didn't it have the same engine as the 300SLR?

And lying on its side?

There was an 'economy' version of this built in Australia, though never used to my knowledge. It had the cabin of an FE Holden utility, with a streamlined M-B lookalike nose formed in aluminium by Stan Brown (I think...) and it was on a chassis made from two Standard Vanguard chassis.

The engine was TR3, lying on its side and dry sumped... quite a project really.

#5 D-Type

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 16:37

In "A Story of Formula 1" (1961) Jenks devotes a whole chapter to transporters etc. The tribute to Jenks book (I forget its name) has a couple of great stories involving transporters. And Graham Gauld's book on Ecurie Ecosse gives the full story of their transporter (the one that Corgi made a model of)

Edited by D-Type, 05 June 2011 - 14:19.


#6 petefenelon

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 16:49

Originally posted by D-Type
In "A Story of Formula 1" (1961) Jenks devotes a whole chapter to transporters etc. The tribute to Jenks book (I forget its name) has a couple of great stories involving transporters. And Graham gauld's book on Ecurie Ecosse gives the full story of their transporter (the one that Corgi made a model of)


A lovely little book that is - there's some splendid stuff about Bruce Halford in "A Story of F1" and the lovely tale about going to the opera in a transporter appears in both books, I think....

Sigh. We need The Complete Jenks, and soon :(

#7 jph

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 19:12

The restaurated Auto Union Trasnporter, a Büssing.


Thank you, yes I remeber seeing this at Goodwood when Auto Unions formed the central display - it somehow made the array of C&G re-creations seen more authentic! Also, the Mercedes high speed transporter has real style - somehow a bit more charismatic than, say, the elongated Standard Vanguard that (I think) Mike Anthony used for carting his Lotus 11 around Europe.

We need The Complete Jenks, and soon



Absolutely right. 'A Passion for Motor Sport' is one of my favourite motoring books and when it was first published, soon after Jenks died, I found it quite moving. Inevitably it only scratches the surface of his work and someone must surely produce the definitive work, but who?

Mentioning 'A Story of Formula One' (I must try to track down a copy) reminds me that there are some excellent pieces in 'Racing Mechanic', telling of the dramas involved in moving the HWM team around Europe, chasing starting money in the early '50s.

#8 dretceterini

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 20:02

My favorite:

http://hspegaso.en.e...Bacalao2WEB.jpg

#9 uechtel

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 20:21

Transporters? Did you say transporters???

When all you need is just four wheels and an engine!

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Of course some people prefer the slightly more noble way...

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... of course also available in the socialistic variant:

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But I suspect it were pictures like this you were thinking of?

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No. 1: Helmut Polensky transferring his newly acquired Neumaier-chassis to his home)
No. 2: Maurice Monnier
No. 3: Rudi Krause
No. 4: Veritas team transport

#10 dretceterini

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 20:33

Great Pictures! Thanks You! :clap:

#11 Frank S

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 21:26

I feel less lonely now. A surprising number of transporters and tow-related vehicles showed up in my models collection. No real explanation, but there they are.

Among the plenitude of interesting photos on Al Long's Pages are images of a few transporter and transporter-like vehicles, including Kimberly's.

And there is my foot-in-the-door of a page where I expect eventually to include photos of all the models of transporters and trailers in my collection. The Fiat transporters by Old Cars, Italy, are now available Buy-It-Now on eBay for $69.95 USD, either Ferrari or Maserati flavored. I have discovered the closed transporter without description is a Rolfo OM150.

On that page is a link to Michael T. Lynch's American Sports Car Racing In The 1950s, a book that has a couple of photos. Go to the "Photos" page and look at the two in the bottom row of thumbnails.

#12 eldougo

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 22:50

Originally posted by dretceterini
My favorite:

http://hspegaso.en.e...Bacalao2WEB.jpg



----------------------------------------------

:wave: Hi Dretceterini could you please tell about your favorite transporter????.
thanks Doug.

#13 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 23:01

I wonder if anybody has a picture of Malcolm Bailey's?

#14 dretceterini

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Posted 29 November 2003 - 00:29

Here is an excellent article, translated by Google from the original Spanish on the Pegaso "Codfish" Transporter:



THE PEGASO CODFISH, "SAN BERNARDO OF THE PEGASINES"


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When in October of 1951, the direction of ENASA decided to present/display in 38º Hall the Automobile of Paris the "fast Tourism" the Pegaso Z-102, those prototypes could not imagine, that, were going away to turn with the passage of the years, coveted collector pieces.


The Spain of principles of years 50, was not the best scene for the creation of an automobile of these characteristics, in fact the objective of the ENASA-Pegaso, never was the one to make a sport tourism of high benefits, the own Ricart later recognized years in one of its last interviews. Given the lack of qualified workers, so demanded by the new national industry, it was necessary to start off of zero, and to form them within the same company. Because the creation of an enlisted specialists training school was a long and delicate process, the best solution was the one to try to more good construct "to something" that needed very many skilled labor, and nothing, than to embark in the adventure to construct a sport car of highest benefits, where to be able to form apprentices and specialistic workers, with vocation of craftsmen.


That car, born like a talent exercise, soon was seen by the pro-Franco regime like a propagandistic element really effective, able throughout the world to spread and to catapult the name of Spain, thus demonstrating, the technological capacity of the appeared again national industry.


So many were the exigencies towards the equipment of Ricart, that seen rather like a proving stand for they themselves, the Z-102, began to compete in multitude of automobile events thanks to which, was their right to be the Pegaso Codfish.


Throughout 1952, company been in Zaragoza, specialized in the construction of ferrioviario material was in charge to its construction, to "Carde and Escoriaza". For it, a chassis of bus, the Z-401 model was provided to them, to which the gasoline had settled him motor the Pegaso Iii-g, that offered 145 c.v. of maximum power, connection to a box of four relations, taking reducing in the cane of the direction, being therefore a total of eight relations towards ahead and two reverse gear. After some modification, like the extension of the front projection, practically nonexistent in the 401 normal, float as van or emergency service truck but with avanzadísimo design of own ENASA, although is one that aims at influences of the Italian Lancia. The nose completely cleared emphasizes its well-taken care of aerodynamics when having and to be conceived like a unit, not distinguishing a separated cabin of the box of load. Like characteristic element, which he was in addition the one that gave its name him, it is possible to emphasize the presence in both lateral ones of his body, of individual vents similar to fish gills, that together with the nose, with inferior entrance, caused that it was baptized to him like "Codfish". A wide corrugated plate strip crossed it in all its length, being painted in metalized color. To also emphasize its interior, since the conduction position was placed On guard central, on the motor, being separated of the found cargo compartment that at a lower level, by a small door. After the conductor, coffers were arranged to tools, as well as a washbasin for the cleanliness of the mechanics. In the interior of the van, was the space reserved for the cars, two in principle, although he was almost always one the one that traveled in the interior, taking the other, or the others in the Pegaso Mofletes of the own factory. The length overall of the vehicle was of eleven meters, which together with the three the two meters and means of height and width of and average, made it really spectacular for the time, dice their breaker image in relation to the automobile park that circulated around the Spain of that then.


This truck has been object of the curiosity of many of the fans to the industrialists


veterans, since he does not know himself if a unit made so single or were two those that were ordered by ENASA. In the first version he appears painted in a clear tonality, with a frontal of you lick horizontals, and central division, being photographed with the provisional matriculation B-104.527, corresponding to the first semester of 1953. Given the experimental character of the motor of gasoline, and mainly due to its high consumption, this one c.v. is replaced the following year by 140 the diesel engine of, that mounted the Mofletes. One takes advantage of in addition to alter its frontal, staying as definitive, with a great frontal cross, that extends framing the lights, and it is painted in addition in two tonalities to blue, being celestial the superior part, and of blue a very dark inferior one, separated both, by a white line, labeling in great characters the name "the Pegaso" in both lateral ones of the body. The back part was closed with two inner doors of the same height that the vehicle, that presented/displayed two peculiar circular windows type "ox eye", also taking labeled the name of the mark.


This second version appears with the provisional matriculation B-104.841, of the first semester of 1954, although it is peculiarly not discharged from the hospital until 1957, being definitively registered with the B-145.045. Since then the history of the Codfish ran compares to the one of Z-102 the official tourism of factory, being its emergency service truck in the competitions to which they went, crossing good part of the European continent, being witness of the triumphs obtained by them.



Once the direction of ENASA, decides to leave the production of cars exclusively, being centered in the construction of industrial vehicles, and already disappeared the department of official competition of factory; the Codfish is yielded to diverse runners of the time and automobile events like attendance vehicle.


From here, history does confused then certain rumors aim at that, after to remain give inn in the environs of factory of Sagrera, was sold to company of changes that used it until the end of its days, although also fits possibility that it was sold to a feriante, that used it later to keep it in a ship from its property and being found there in the middle of the 90, where was bought and apparently it would be being been recovering at the moment in the zone of Catalonia. What if is safe it is that one of its last users was the runner Jorge de Bagatrionne, who had it in his equipment at the end of years 60, taking it even to competitions celebrated in the United Kingdom. According to the information available in traffic, it was terminated by taking apart in 1970, but all the fans to the veteran industrialists, we know that to leave whole number a taking apart and to live a new life, still it is possible.


Juan Steppe



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© Hispanic club the Switzerland-Pegaso 2002, All rights reserved all

hspegaso@eresmas.com





Early version (?) :

http://hspegaso.en.e...laoBlancWEB.jpg



Here is a cockpit photo:


http://hspegaso.en.e...BacinterWEB.jpg


and here is a front end shot:

http://hspegaso.en.e...ac1frontWEB.jpg

More shots:

http://hspegaso.en.e...BACALAEXTRA.htm

#15 dretceterini

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 18:43

bump

#16 D-Type

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 22:44

I think Holger is correct. Anything I have read, both in period and referring to the recent restoratio/reconstruction have referred to a modified 300SL chassis and 300SL engine rather than 300SLR. Was the engine laid over more than in the 300SL?

A gem from A Story of Formula 1 :

This was the sort of effort that Connaught had to put in to get to Syracuse for that great race in 1955. Mike Oliver was acting as team manager as well as chief engineer on that occasion, and he preceded the AEC buses carrying the cars, driving his hot Zephyr. They had unfortunately taken the mountain route to Sicily, not knowing any better, and at times Mike was having difficulty putting 22 miles into an hour’s motoring, and he was naturally feeling pretty worried about the transporters that were following the same route. In actual fact, what he did not know was that one of the buses was having its brakes re-lined in the middle of the high street of a mountain town, for they had been used up completely going through the mountains. As Mike said afterwards “those AECs were definitely long-dogs, not made for corners or hills.” That trip saw the mechanics eventually driving non-stop, there was no question of of how many hours a day, it was just continual day and night. One team of mechanics summed up atrip to Sicily, the mountain route by saying drily, “We took turns in driving-doing 12-hour shifts!”



And Tony Brooks rewarded their efforts handsomely.

Does anybody have a scanner and the book as there are half a dozen photos that TNFers would enjoy.

#17 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 03:29

From Graham Howard...

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Posted Image

#18 eldougo

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 05:38

:wave:
Dretceterini ------------- Sorry iam late in reply.
THANKS FOR THAT STORY THEY MUST HAVE BEEN A SIGHT IN THERE DAY THESE MACHINES . GREAT STORY THANKS :up: DOUG

#19 Holger Merten

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 08:27

Going on in the history of the AU Race-transporters:
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The first race car transports were done with this Horch 830 and a trailer.

And here the team with their new transporters:
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#20 FredrikB

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 08:53

Check the top item on this site: West Racing.
They are making a PC-simulation involving a Lotus transporter in some way...

/Fredrik

#21 bradbury west

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 12:36

Sorry to be a bit mundane..................

Does anyone else recall Jackie Oliver's Ford Thames 300C flatbed transporter on which he used to carry his Elan 26R in 1964? It was a rich maroon colour, like his car, and had the legend Red Rooster on the doors, possibly after a song by an up and coming but now well known period beat combo.

To fit the car on the back it had a lengthened chassis with a third, trailing axle tagged on the back. Looked impressive to me as a callow youth at Rufforth in those rose-tinted-glasses days.

I suspect the rig was a bit sluggish with only the 1508cc Consul engine in plus the three speed box.


Any comments or photographs Jackie??


Mike Anthony had a Standard Vanguard pick-up extended to take his Lotus X Bristol which seemed the business in those days, mimmicking the M-B High Speed Transporter, and a VSCC member has a Bentley mk6 cut down and extended with a wider rear axle to carry some appropriate device.


Roger Lund

#22 dretceterini

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 18:34

eldougo:

Your'e very welcome


Holger:

Thanks for more great photos


:clap:

#23 David Beard

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 19:55

Maurice Levy (Team Lotus mechanic in 1959) told me this about their Thames transporter...

"Just imagine the sparkling performance of the 15cwt. van extended to accomodate extra crew and one car on the flat bed plus trailer with 2 cars! We did however fit a Zephyr 6 engine and believe it or not, I made a mating plate for the bell housing so we could fit an Alvis Speed 25 gearbox as the Ford 3 speed kept jamming in 2 gears at once. Needless to say, Chapman never travelled in the thing. Jim Endruweit and myself did the "accomodation" modification."

#24 WDH74

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 01:06

Frank S- there's also a coupla great pics in that book of John Edgar's various transporters. I remember one with a patio atop the truck!

Talk of Lotus transporters reminds me of a pic from Michael Oliver's book on the 49. It shows Pete Loveley unloading his car (when it was white) from his transporter, which was a VW transporter pickemup truck! I seem to recall another picture of this rig, parked next to Lotus' transporter as well.

On the Merc truck, didn't Dean Moon try to build a similar transporter, out of El Camino parts?
-William

#25 rdrcr

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 07:00

How very cool - this thread. Nothing like the complete package showing up at the local historics, especially if the transporter was a part of the history of the car.

Here is an interesting story of a Dodge racing car transporter that was built in 1940.


Posted Image


From: www.oldclassiccar.co.uk

The Authors note:

Please be aware that what follows is just my opinion based on my experiences in this subject. All matters relating to motoring law, or any other legal/official matters should be pursued with the relevant authorities. I cannot accept any liability for loss/damage/divorce/grey hair or any other misfortune based on any of the following advice, given as it is in good faith only.

Ta.

This is the biggest classic vehicle project that I've taken on to date, by a long long way! This unique historic vehicle was used in the late 1940s and early 1950s as a racing car transporter by the R.D. Poore motor racing equipe, where he ran (as a privateer) his former-Grand Prix winning (ex-Scuderia Ferrari / Nuvolari) 1930s supercharged Alfa Romeo Tipo 8C at numerous sprints, hillclimbs and vintage motor racing meetings in the postwar years.

Originally Dennis Poore used his old Ford V8 road car to drag the Alfa on its trailer around the country, but this was proving to be hard work for the underpowered Ford. The trailer actually began life in the 1930s when Poore designed it to carry his little supercharged MG to pre-war race meetings, including Brooklands. Once he had acquired the Alfa, the trailer saw a number of modifications, not least a widening exercise to get the bulkier Alfa onto the trailer in the first place. Also the original knock-on wheels fitted to the trailer were replaced with conventional bolt on affairs, which is still has to this day. Also the canopy was constructed, with a view to improving the aerodynamics and to some extent the handling of the trailer whilst on tow. The frame of the trailer consists of a tubular chassis, with drop down (jointed) support legs and a winch constructed by the team, built using the crownwheel and pinion from his old MG sports car. The canopy, which originally had canvas ends to protect the Alfa whilst on board, looks to be possibly constructed from aero quality aluminium, as the riveting is to a high standard and the skin has one or two circular holes on it which could have once contained aircraft navigation lights, yet serve no purpose in this application. Rubber wings are fitted, and have survived remarkably well.

Anyway, as mentioned the old V8 Ford with this substantial trailer and Alfa Romeo hitched up behind proved to be no ball of fire, so the hunt was on for a replacement tow vehicle. Poore was ex-RAF, so whether this helped I don't know, but its believed that the Dodge he chose came from a sell-off auction not long after WW2, when many of these heavyweight 3 ton Dodges were disposed of, not least due to their thirst for petrol. This particular example, shipped over originally in 1940/41 as a chassis/scuttle assembly direct from Chryslers plant in Michigan, was part of a consignment originally destined for France, but, on the invasion by the axis powers, was re-directed to the allied forces where they were split between both the Army and Royal Air Force. Many RAF vehicles were fitted out with a standard cargo body, but a number were dispatched to the coachbuilding firm of Mulliners, in Birmingham, to be bodied as crewbuses. There were 2 versions, one with the standard Dodge cab and separate Mulliner rear bodywork (a speaker tube connecting the driver to his crew) and an integral version, whereby the Dodge chassis/scuttle (to just above the windscreen) had an integral version of the 'bus bodywork fitted. Its the latter that mine has, featuring non-Dodge panelwork from the doors and cab roof, back.

During the war, it would have been fitted with a substantial brush guard ahead of the grille assembly (as testified by the holes let into the front grille to accomodate the guard stays), and blackout curtains to the rear windows, none of which are there now (and were probably removed prior to auction just after the war). Other than these few modifications, the truck would have been sold on pretty much 'as is', the intricate folding step below the 2 rear doors for instance still remaining. To modify the vehicle for its new role, Poore added in a winch, wheel stops, and bracketry to support the ramps that the car would have gone up and down. Later on in its new life it gained a hinged frame to the nearside bodywork, which hinges out and clipped to a pair of vertical support legs, over which a canvas cover would be rolled, this being rolled up and tied to the Dodge's roof when not required. The original headlamps were removed at some time in its life, being deemed not very effective (6v electrics still remain however) and were replaced with an expensive pair of Marchal lamps, one of which has been damaged some time ago, but for which I have a replacement 'in stock'.

Similar vehicles were used by other drivers after the war, I believe Connaught for instance ran a similarly styled separate bodied version on a 6 wheeled Austin chassis, and I have seen a photograph of a former Dodge crewbus (separate, standard Dodge cab) behind a photo of George Abecassis' racing car, this one having had its windows paneled over and covered with numerous period sponsor advertisements. My vehicle still bears some of the hallmarks of its earlier, pre-transporter, life, most notably in the varied selection of tyres that it still wears, a few of which are to original military pattern. When the rear doors are open, a pair of small lockers with hinged down covers are exposed, and carefully investigating them beneath several layers of paint, exposed an original plastic-type label affixed to the cover of one of these locker lids, proclaiming 'Chains', which presumably meant that they were designed to carry chains for fitting to the tyres should the going get boggy out on an airfield somewhere, this being of course part of the Mulliner bodywork.

Talking of the coachbuilt Mulliner bodywork, I did strike lucky on one thing. Someone I know is big on old military Dodge trucks, and he came to have a look at my old bus. Known to him is a gent that makes small volume white metal kits for the specialist model builder market and he'd recently produced a detailed model of an Avro Lancaster, with which he was planning to market a model of a RAF crewbus. Previously he'd only been able to work with some grainy old photos to get his modeling correct, and was therefore very interested when he heard about the existence of my old lorry. He wasted little time in coming over to view the old girl, and spent 2 happy
hours measuring and photographing everything he could. In return, he was able to provide me with some faded photocopies of the original Mulliner design blueprints for my exact vehicle, and the separate bodied version also, both on the self same 3 ton 188" wheelbase VK spec (VK62B) Dodge chassis.

This was a major find and has allowed me to further understand the original configuration of the vehicle during it's earlier years in active service. From an article in Wheels and Tracks magazine (Issue 28 if anyone has a spare?) there is a good write-up on the VK62B model Dodge, and mention is made of my type of vehicle.

What is interesting is that a number were converted late on in the war to be used as mobile training classrooms, used by companies such as Rotol in the instruction and training in the use of their propellers.

One curious feature that I've yet to get to the bottom of is the existence of the very Mulliner-esque aluminium swoopy strips that exist on the front doors and on top of the bonnet, running from the centre of the bonnet's leading edge, diagonally across the top panel, extending across the cowl and down the doors. These seem to be strange things to have on a military vehicle, the need for which must have been quite pressing and urgent at the time, unless maybe it was a demonstrator vehicle produced by Mulliners, on to which they added a few styling cues hinting at their earlier (grander) designs for Rolls Royce and Bentley motor cars of the 1930s?? On removing them the paint below is just a yellow primer type stuff, the various blues and (in Poore's ownership) dark green being applied around the strips. If I look carefully there are signs of there having been 2 similar swoopy strips running down each side of the rear bodywork, starting narrow and splaying out and downwards as they pass over the rear wheels, very much in the style of civilian buses from the 1940s - maybe Mulliners once again applying a dash of style to what was really a utilitarian design (though surely costly to produce) requirement?? The strips along the rear sides have long since been removed, possibly by Poore, possibly so as not to get in the way of the sponsorship signwriting that has been applied. Only the mounting screw holes remain for where the trim once ran, that and signs of early corrosion that must have occurred as a result of a reaction between the alloy trim and steel panelling, marking out where the trim would once have run.

I've tried to establish what colour schemes the Dodge has had during its life. This isn't proving to be too easy. Although very faded now, the paintwork seen here in the photographs started out as a deep green colour, probably matching the green that Poore ran the Alfa in, confirmed by both of the 2 team mechanics who I was fortunate in being able to speak with about their times with Poore and his motor racing exploits.

Scraping through the layers of paint however does throw up some questions. For instance, below and to the outside of the aluminium strips already mentioned there are signs of a dark blue on top of a lighter blue paint colour, this runs from the outside of the bonnet top strips, down the sides, taking in the front wings and the front doors below the strips. However above the aluminium strips, and between them on top of the bonnet, running rear up and over the cab, there are signs of a dusty yellow directly beneath its current green topcoat, which seems to indicate that it may have run with a strange colour scheme at some point in its life. And as the colour scheme seems to directly follow the line of these aluminium flashing strips, the earlier life of this truck seems ever more confusing. Was it converted into a mobile classroom sometime during the war and then updated with these civilian style aluminium flashings? maybe it saw some service out in the desert (hence the sandy yellow paint to be found), then brought back and assigned to training duties, receiving at this point some sections of repainting in blue and maybe these strips at the same time, possibly applied by some RAF engineers just to improve the look of the vehicle, or differentiate it from those still in active airfield duty? I really don't know, I've yet to find any markings or military insignia beneath its current paintjob, but hopefully something will come to light.

One of the main things I've tried to achieve away from the vehicle itself is to locate photographs of the truck in action, probably in a paddock photograph taken back in the 1940s or 1950s, and in this respect I have had some success. One of my early finds was courtesy of the programme issued for the first Goodwood Revival meeting back in 1998, which shows an overhead view of the paddock at the inaugural Goodwood race meeting, at what used to be RAF Westhampnett. Along the righthandside is a line of parked racing car transporters, one of which is the Dodge, although only the back end can be seen, with the Alfa a couple of positions further along, being worked on by the mechanics (Sten 'Tammy' Aberg and Bill Lawes).

A slightly better picture can be found (as I found quite by chance!) in a book on the Brabham motor racing team, by Alan Henry, published sometime in the 1980s. Part way through this book is a picture of Bernie Ecclestone, back when he was starting out his interests in motor racing in a little 500cc racing car. In the background, and slightly out of focus, is the back end of the Dodge (this time emblazoned with its sponsor advertising) with the ramps extending rearwards, and the Alfa parked alongside, partially covered, perhaps due to it raining? Another period shot was found only recently at the 2002 Goodwood Festival of Speed, whilst I was wading through hundreds of old motor racing photographs on the offchance of finding a shot that included the Dodge. Amongst a binder of amateur photographs, I stumbled across a picture of a 1930s Mercedes sports car, and clearly parked behing it is the Dodge, showing 2/3rds of the truck and this time, including the front end. This was a great and fortuitous find, and is a valued addition to my growing history file. Finding pictures of Poore driving, whether in the Alfa or in the Connaught or Aston, is not too difficult, and I've been able to acquire quite a selection from leads found via the internet, and other organisations such as the Midland Automobile Club, who have been holding hillclimb meetings since the earliest time of UK motor racing.

Another great find, in a more recent publication, was pointed out to me in the form of an article published in Classic & Sportscar magazine back in 1988, shortly after Poore's death. This article discussed the quandry facing owners of historic racing cars, and the extents to which they should be restored for racing or left in their untouched and totally original condition. Much of the article was given over to the extrication of the timewarp Alfa Romeo and the Dodge, plus all the other team effects such as pit boards and spares, and there were some great pictures of both the car and the Dodge at slumber. A contact of mine also furnished me with a picture of the Dodge when it temporarily was put on display in the Donington Park motor racing museum. Another interesting find was also made over the Festival of Speed weekend, in the shape of an original auction catalogue for the '88 Monaco sale. Of course, if anyone has any further pictures showing the old Dodge in use, and they'd be willing to let me take a copy of it (or at least see it) then please do get in touch, it'd be much appreciated.

As I've already mentioned briefly, I was fortunate enough to be able to make contact with the 2 mechanics who worked for this amateur racing team 50+ years ago. Initially it was Tammy (real name Sten) Aberg who I found, or rather who found me, via a picture I sent of the old Dodge to Classic & Sportscar magazine a few years ago. I met up with Tammy a number of times, and spent many hours talking about motor racing back then, not just with Poore, but the whole scene of postwar motorsport in the UK. He was able to furnish me with further tales of interest with regard to the Dodge and the exploits that it experienced. And he put me in touch with Bill Lawes, who now lives in New Zealand but still keeps a close eye on motor sport and the new life that the Alfa now leads courtesy of its California-based owner. I was also fortunate enough to meet up with Bill and he was able to add to the stories that Tammy (who is sadly no longer with us) told me. It may be possible that there is a family link on my dads side of the family to the Poore family, going back to around 1900 but until I've done some more research on this side of things, I can't prove or disprove this apparent link, based on what I was told about the Poore side by Tammy, and a family tree discovered at my Great Uncles house when it was cleared a couple of years back.

Interest in older race car transporters is in the ascendancy at the moment, as they make for ideal carriages for any historic racing car and look more the part than any double
glazed brand new monolith. The Dodge must be pretty much the oldest surviving (original) race car transporter in the country, and amongst the oldest survivors to be found anywhere. There are some notable survivors, built later than the Dodge, that are now enjoying the spotlight at historic race meetings around the globe, the most famous of which is probably the supercharged 2 stroke Commer, as used by Ecurie Ecosse in the late 1950s to transport their D-Type Jaguars around to meetings.

The old BRM transporter is still around too, and looks just right, ie not too shiny and overly restored, a fate which befalls many old vehicles, leaving them to look a little artificial and new. I'm told the original Vanwall transporter is still around too, although I'm not sure what make of truck this is based upon.

Grabbing many headlines last year, not least at the 2001 Festival of Speed, was Mercedes' re-incarnated high speed transporter, designing specifically for moving their grand prix and sports racing cars around Europe as quickly as possible, itself having a development version of a racing engine installed. The original transporter was chopped up in the late 1960s, but such is the interest now in these historic haulers that Mercedes took the big step of commissioning a reconstruction of this stunning vehicle. A recent Festival of Speed also had on display a mouthwatering collection of Auto Union Grand Prix cars, with a couple of replica transporters recreated on behalf of Audi, to park alongside the historic racing cars to complete the scene.

There must be other original transporters around, maybe sat in fields or the back of scrapyards, as yet to be rescued for preservation - I'd be fascinated to see pictures or be given leads on any other such trucks that still survive. Recently whilst chatting with the guy who originally moved the Dodge for me, I discovered that he has found an old transporter at a yard somewhere in the northwest of England, apparently in quite good condition. He seems to think that its probably from the late 1960s, but he couldnt remember offhand which team, a sportscar team he thought, had used it. I also spotted a transporter for sale on ebay a few months back, probably ex-Formula 1 from the early 1970s, based on a Bedford chassis and still in use from what I could tell. To get that restored in its original livery (assuming it was decked out in team colours) would be a great sight!! If I'd had the room I may have gone for that one too, not that I need any more big projects just now!

To aid this project, and further my insight into the history of this truck, I'd welcome any input that anyone has regarding R.D. Poore Motor Racing, the Dodge, and any photos or information that people may have on other 3 ton Dodge VK trucks (or the '39 TK and '41 WK), as so far I've not uncovered a great deal of information on this particular model of truck (except for workshop manuals etc. which I've got a few of now).

~END~

A great story, and perhaps someone here can help this fellow out...

#26 Racers Edge

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 10:52

WDH74 re: Pete Lovely..and the Lotus 49...he still uses that same VW Pick-up truck to take the restored 49 to vintage race events around the states...very cool, from a very cool guy...(Pete Lovely)

http://www.gpracing....careers/356.cfm

http://www.gglotus.o...lovelyvisit.htm

#27 jph

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 12:31

Here is an interesting story of a Dodge racing car transporter that was built in 1940 .



Fantastic article - thanks for posting it; and also all the others finding their way on to this thread. Further proof of impending senility however: I would have sworn that when I saw the Poore truck in the Donington museum a few years ago, if it was not not fully restored, at least it was in a slightly less dishevelled state than it is shown here.

I'm told the original Vanwall transporter is still around too, although I'm not sure what make of truck this is based upon .



Does anyone know anything about the Vanwall vehicle referred to in the article?

#28 jph

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 13:17

Does anyone know anything about the Vanwall vehicle referred to in the article?



No sooner had I posted this, than a copy of 'A Story of Formula 1' was delivered - thanks to D-Type for the recommendation and to the ever-excellent service provided by Pooks Motor Bookshop. Apparently the Vanwall transporter was, like the BRM vehicle, built on a Leyland Royal Tiger chassis, though apparently right hand drive, whereas BRM's was left hand drive. Jenks doesn't say who built the body (BRM's was built by Marshalls, IIRC) and he describes the Vanwall transporter as '... this huge truck ...'; Yet it always strikes me how small the BRM vehicle (presumably of similar size) looks and how little room there would be for spares etc once three cars had been loaded into it.

#29 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 13:48

Been sent these...

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Posted Image

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The sender can give full details.

#30 Racers Edge

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 15:01

Thanks Ray for posting the photos...this is what I have on the Maserati transporters; Speedy

Maserati Team transporters:
As far as I know, only 2 enclosed transporteres were used in the early 50's by Maserati...1952 > 1953 Fiats and one open verion (eg; Ferrari Bartoletti 649) distroyed in the 90's (Sicily / Targo Florio.) left to rot, and then crushed...( too bad)

One is a longer version ( 2 car) the (Blue and Yellow, Scuderia Centro-Sud) and the other, ( single car) is the one that later was used by the Scarab team. Both still exist..anyone have any more photos of these 2 transporters? :smoking:

#31 David Beard

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 19:41

This photo shows a model (1/43 I suppose, not sure) of the Team Lotus transporter c1958. It started life doing normal bus type things in the North of England before being converted to a transporter by Cliff Allison. Team Lotus took it over.

The model was produced by a Russian model maker, I believe. Someone visited Cliff and took away some precious old photos in order to create it. They were never returned, and Cliff was quite upset.
Any info gratefully received.

Posted Image

#32 David Beard

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 19:54

And perhaps the best known transporter of all, at Goodwood

2003
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2001
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#33 Racers Edge

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 20:22

Question??? Anyone know why most of all the transporters in the 20's / 30's/ 40's/ 50's/ 60's/ in Europe ( except the UK) were "Right hand Drive"? :rotfl:

#34 petefenelon

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 20:40

Originally posted by Racers Edge
Question??? Anyone know why most of all the transporters in the 20's / 30's/ 40's/ 50's/ 60's/ in Europe ( except the UK) were "Right hand Drive"? :rotfl:



Many "proper" Grand Touring cars were - it was felt that RHD was the Right Thing To Have for going over hairpin-ridden Alpine passes. Since a lot of racing transporters probably spent a fair amount of their lives doing precisely that, perhaps that's why?

#35 jph

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 15:19

This photo shows a model (1/43 I suppose, not sure) of the Team Lotus transporter c1958. It started life doing normal bus type things in the North of England before being converted to a transporter by Cliff Allison. Team Lotus took it over.

The model was produced by a Russian model maker, I believe. Someone visited Cliff and took away some precious old photos in order to create it. They were never returned, and Cliff was quite upset.
Any info gratefully received.



This is a model made by St Petersburg Tram Collection - have a look at www.sptc.spb.ru/ The following is their blurb on the model:

"This transporter was based on standard war-time Bedford OWB of Brown's Coaches of Darlington. The bus was modified by Cliff Allison of Team Lotus to carry 2 cars, spares and mechanics in 1954. "

They also do a very passable model of the BRM transporter (the only one of their models I've seen in the resin, as it were) and also the 1954 Cunningham Twin Fageol Super Freighter. Again, from their website:

"In 1950 Twin Coach company introduced a line of vans using the name Fageol. There were a large range of available models with wheelbase from 108 to 222 inches, all with International components but with traditional Twin Coach integral construction. These vans, known as Fageol Super Freighters, were available through International dealer’s network until 1954, when Twin Coach sold its bus manufacturing to Flxible. Briggs Cunningham Team bought a special designed van in 1954, which was one of the most attractive racing transporters of the 50s."

Their models are limited editions, quite expensive, but for a BRM (in my particular case) model collection, absolutely indispensible.

#36 rdrcr

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 20:20

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This truck is owned by John Delane and Mike McCarthy (I think). John Delane and John Dimmer travel together in this restored 1969 Leyland Worldmaster Tyrrell Transporter, and the team has authentic driver's suits, uniforms and team livery.

BTW, They won the Pete Lyons Cup at last year's Rolex Monterey Historics, for authentic presentation and being the cars which best personified the spirit of the Formula One event. The two cars were invited to be part of Ford's Hundredth Anniversary Celebration in Dearborn, MI in June. After that exhibition, the two Johns raced the cars in July at the Second Annual Sommet des Legends at St. Jovite circuit in Mont Tremblant.

Very, very cool...

#37 Racers Edge

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 20:39

rdcr...Is that not the greatest...I love it.. I owned for a short time & have to say, " saved " the ex: Tyrell transporter ( same one that was sunk in the Thames River before being bought by Ken Tyrrell) that orginially housed the 6 wheel Tyrrell race car team...I lost control of a situation, after I purchased it from a Caterham race team ( can't remember the team) but the restoration company took it from me, and I guess sold it to either Martin Stretton or the owners of the 6 wheeled Tyrrell... ( I still have the orginal title) I really hope it is restored and put to good use....( I paid 5,000 pounds for it after seeing it in a AutoTrader ad in England) ... :smoking:

#38 rdrcr

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 22:31

Interesting story Speedy, sorry to read that you lost control of that deal, but good to know that you played an important part in its resurrection. Is it still possible for you to keep tabs on the thing? It would be good to find out if it is a work-in-progress or still waiting in the wings.

Here are a few shots of the famed Ferrari hauler that made such a splash at the Pebble Beach / Monterey Historic meeting in 2001.

Posted Image

It was the "talk of the lawn" this 1957 Fiat Tip 682R Ferrari racing transporter. This incredibly restored carrier is one of only two left in the world and both reside in the Pacific Northwest. It was one hell of an appearance with no less than 3, TR 250s on board.

I failed to get the name of the owner of this magnificent rig, does anyone have a clue?

#39 David Beard

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 22:40

Originally posted by rdrcr

Here are a few shots of the famed Ferrari hauler that made such a splash at the Pebble Beach / Monterey Historic meeting in 2001.

[


I'm sure I can remember seeing a similar, if not the same, transporter, loaded with F1 Ferraris at Silverstone in the 60s. I remember I thought it looked very scruffy at the time...nothing like that shiny job.

At the Goodwood Revival this year, it was announced at the final prize giving that someone had won a prize for their restored transporter, finished in the nick of time. Who was that? It was a BMC one I think, and I wondered if it was the one I past on Monday afternoon going north on the M40 near Brum.

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#40 Frank S

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 04:27

From the sublime to the less-so: a man from an Arizona city brought his Frogeye Sprite to Holtville (29 KM NE of Mexicali, Baja California) in a high-side rental U-Haul one-axle trailer. Four feet by ten or twelve feet, an inch clearance on the sides. Quite a crowd watched him clamber in over the top, start it up, and back it off over the tailgate/disembarking ramp.

#41 Racers Edge

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 10:27

Richard...most unreal..I love it...this thread is turning out great, ( I have a passion for transporters)... Interesting: a few years ago, I thought that one day, people will start collecting the transporters, as well as the cars that they carried. ( it seems a good number have been found and are being restored)
In reference to the Tyrrell transporter, I heard a few years ago that Simon Bull ( owner of one of the 6 wheeled cars) has purchased it, and I'm sure it's being restored to it's former glory..I'll bet, you will see it at one of the Vintage events perhaps next season?

#42 David Force

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 11:02

As has been reported on prevous threads the Tyrrell Transporter is owned by John Delane and is absolutely glorious. Nice touches such as the wooden drawers inside labelled up with Nora Tyrrells name etc. At Monterey this year Jackie Stewart demonstrated Tyrrell 001, still owned by the family and raced by John Delane but it is true to say he was even more struck when he was given a tour of this fabulous time warp truck. Edsel Ford and others had to wait in line and all were awestruck.

We are hoping that John may be able to bring the transporter back to Europe next season to accommodate his Tyrrell F1 car collection as they take part in FORCE events, wouldn't that be something ?

On a Lotus theme that great Dutch enthusiast Olav Glasius has restored a Thames van to original Team Lotus specification and had driven it to events, it is reported to be a little slow and difficult with its forward cab driving position but looks just fabulous.

#43 rdrcr

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 17:29

Back in my mid-20's when I was involved with the Restoration Co., my partner found a 1929 Ford 1 ton flatbed truck with a 1932 Ford dirt track car all intact. IIRC, It had been sitting for at least 35 years in a barn in Placentia, CA.

Inside the cab of the truck, had old newspapers (circa 1948!), peanut bags and cigarette packs (the ones with no filters) and all sorts of other racing debris like used pennzoil cans... it appeared that whomever owned the pair, just put it away wet... only to be uncovered years and years later as a time-capsule to that day. It was, needless to say, an incredible find.

Never knew what happened to that one, we sold it to a collector of such things back east. He told us that he didn't know if he would restore the hauler and car at all, rather, just leave them in their original state. I think that was one of the reasons we sold it to him.

Some things are better left alone.

#44 jph

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 20:43

At the Goodwood Revival this year, it was announced at the final prize giving that someone had won a prize for their restored transporter, finished in the nick of time. Who was that? It was a BMC one I think, and I wondered if it was the one I past on Monday afternoon going north on the M40 near Brum.



There's a piece about this in January 2004 Classic & Sports Car. It's owned by a gentleman named Paul Stanworth and, in summary, he finished restoring it just in time for the Revival meeting this year. The truck was styled by Pininfarina and built by Marshalls - who also built the BRM transporter of course. I think I read somewhere that the BMC transporter started life as one of half-a-dozen vehicles built as mobile training vehicles when the Mini was introduced and was converted to being a racing car transporter later on.

#45 David Beard

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 21:01

Originally posted by jph


There's a piece about this in January 2004 Classic & Sports Car.


Tah...I will look out for it.

I think this thread has a lot of mileage left in it...

Can we include trailers?...Here we have a rather rustic little number, with David Piper in the same jumper that he was wearing two or three years before in the Justin Idleburger thread...

Posted Image
From Robin Read's Lotus book, I think.

#46 oldtimer

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 21:07

Originally posted by rdrcr
Interesting story Speedy, sorry to read that you lost control of that deal, but good to know that you played an important part in its resurrection. Is it still possible for you to keep tabs on the thing? It would be good to find out if it is a work-in-progress or still waiting in the wings.

Here are a few shots of the famed Ferrari hauler that made such a splash at the Pebble Beach / Monterey Historic meeting in 2001.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

It was the "talk of the lawn" this 1957 Fiat Tip 682R Ferrari racing transporter. This incredibly restored carrier is one of only two left in the world and both reside in the Pacific Northwest. It was one hell of an appearance with no less than 3, TR 250s on board.

I failed to get the name of the owner of this magnificent rig, does anyone have a clue?


My, how times have changed!

I was in the Silverstone paddock when the F1 Ferraris arrived for the 1958 Britsh GP. On very second hand 'lorries' - high flat-beds with drop boards on the sides and rear. I assumed they had been rented for the drive from Dover from Joe Whathisname, who happened by standing by with a cigarette hanging from his mouth.

Since the ramps were too short to get the cars off the 'transporters' without grounding, Hawthorn sent the Ferrari mechanics of to the Vanwall team to borrow a proper pair.

Finished 1st and 2nd in the race...

#47 Pedro 917

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 22:14

Those were the days ! Henri Pescarolo taking a nap in the Alfa transporter during the Spa 1000 kms race in 1971 :

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#48 Frank S

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 23:09

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Alfa-Romeo 6C 3000CM 1949 No. 22 3495cc
Chassis No. 00126
Phil Hill
Started, Finished 6

"Epifani
Restorations
Berkeley, CA"

#49 lanciaman

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Posted 05 December 2003 - 15:04

In the early 70s I purchased an ex-Holman&Moody Ford C600 cabover hauler that had been converted for carrying two Porsches to Sebring by a local dealer.

The Porsche dealer fabricated a high top deck that cleverly pivoted at the front, with the back end dropping down by cable and winch to align with long ramps that fastened to the lower level. Thus two cars, one top and bottom, could be carried. This top deck served as a great viewing platform when restored to the horizontal.

However...I was carrying an MGB and MGA and full tools and welding gear and spare rims and tires and the rest, and it was it clear the truck was underpowered and alarmingly top heavy. I suppose that is why the Porsche dealer unloaded it after one year of use. I had to get up a good head of steam going downhill on the Interstates in order to make it up the next one. But as we had a sleeper berth and 8-track sound system and the stupid optimism of youth, the hauler's actual safety margin was of remarkably little concern.

The rig was also very high. I had to back up more than once from urban overpasses.

And then there was the time at-- either Nelson Ledges or Elkhart Lake, I forget exactly-- where we drove up to registration and the top deck's high railing snagged the telephone lines, disconnecting all track communications. This spelt paid to the morning session and made us short-term pariahs amongst track workers. It was v. embarrassing.

This was largely before the 18-wheel haulers, mind you, excepting Group 44 and BRE, so some tracks simply didn't accomodate high rigs. In those days, a converted school bus was considered the berries as a custom hauler and was much envied.

#50 Frank S

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Posted 05 December 2003 - 18:14

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Now the Ridiculous:
In the old "All the money is in full view, sleep on the ground, eat? what's that?" days, this MG was a cargo trailer going and coming and a "race car" for a few moments every second weekend for two years or so.

The original 5.60x14 Dunlops on 4.5-inch rims traveled roads from San Diego to Santa Maria, to Willow Springs, Riverside, and Holtville. The Goodyear 8-point something racing tires (and later Gardner-Reynolds iron-tread recaps) on 5.5-inch rims would all fit under the closed tonneau cover, along with a 5-gallon plastic gas can strapped in the driver restraints, as well as sundry tools and spares.

A flat-tow worked good, and the MG filled the bubble behind the Dart so the combination got better highway miles-per-gallon (19) than the Dart alone (17). Only hassle was disconnecting and re-fixing the drive shaft, and that became a quick switch, with practice.

I drove this rig with confidence and flair, and with its electrical connections translating Dart input to MG lighting, it passed numerous extemporaneous California Highway patrol inspections. The balance between 195-14 Pirellis on the Dart and the skinny rubber on the MG seemed perfect. Returning from Holtville over the winding Highway 80, pre-Interstate, I would motor along with the left front Dart wheel at an apex and the right rear MG wheel kicking up gravel from the verge. Folly.

After the track was dismantled on one Holtville weekend, narrow tires back on the MG and the towbar secured and sticking up in front like a dowsing rod, I took a soft person for a demonstration ride. That was when I developed my plan for slow but exciting racing: bias-ply tires, tall, very narrow treads on high-speed carcasses. Even the near-stock MG engine could overpower the tires on slow corners, transitions were lengthy and well-telegraphed, and easily controllable, and the squalling rubber made it all seem so . . . fast!