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#2951 arttidesco

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 19:35

Posted on behalf of Bjørn Kjer

L9uruP.jpg

Anyone have other Pictures or know anything on Canley Deliveries or Carrimore Six-Wheelers ?

 

Allegedly great for delivering steam powered GPO Morris Minors fitted with ladder racks ;-)



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#2952 WOT

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 12:20

This is how we did it in Oz....

 

WFarm_68_Jim_Clark_Trailer_01.jpg



#2953 Mark A

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 12:38

Found a link to a 1958 article on Canley car Deliveries.

 

http://archive.comme...ewed-deliveries

 

 

Canley Car Deliveries, Ltd., Kenilworth, sought four transporters to add to 10 already on B licence, with the conditions: "Collection and delivery of new and completely assembled vehicles from the Standard Motor Co., Ltd., and Jaguar Cars, Ltd., for delivery as required." The addition of " uncased " satisfied the objectors.

Mr. Foley-Egginton, for the company, said in the first 10 months of 1458 1,380 Jaguar cars and 3,319 Standards were carried for export, plus 1,982 Standards for the home market—a total of 26 cars per day requiring nine vehicles. In the same period, 3,718 Standard cars were driven to ports for export, and 1,829 to destinations for the home market, a further 22 a day.

The first transporter was expected in March, with the remaining three in April and May.

Mr. James questioned Mr. E. A. Barber, a director, concerning drivers' hours offences for which the company were convicted on November 3. He said that if they could not control 10 vehicles, he could not see why 14 should be granted. After receiving an undertaking that positive action would be taken and offenders immediately dismissed, he granted the application.

Mr. S. Herd,. a representative of Jaguar Cars, Ltd., said their output was 12,000 cars per annum and they visualized a 10 per cent, increase in the next 12 months.

 

 

 

Additionally, a companies house search shows they were in existence until almost exactly 20 years ago (They were dissolved 12/12/1994)


Edited by Mark A, 05 December 2014 - 12:45.


#2954 Dipster

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 12:49

Found a link to a 1958 article on Canley car Deliveries.

 

http://archive.comme...ewed-deliveries

 

 

Canley Car Deliveries, Ltd., Kenilworth, sought four transporters to add to 10 already on B licence, with the conditions: "Collection and delivery of new and completely assembled vehicles from the Standard Motor Co., Ltd., and Jaguar Cars, Ltd., for delivery as required." The addition of " uncased " satisfied the objectors.

Mr. Foley-Egginton, for the company, said in the first 10 months of 1458 1,380 Jaguar cars and 3,319 Standards were carried for export, plus 1,982 Standards for the home market—a total of 26 cars per day requiring nine vehicles. In the same period, 3,718 Standard cars were driven to ports for export, and 1,829 to destinations for the home market, a further 22 a day.

The first transporter was expected in March, with the remaining three in April and May.

Mr. James questioned Mr. E. A. Barber, a director, concerning drivers' hours offences for which the company were convicted on November 3. He said that if they could not control 10 vehicles, he could not see why 14 should be granted. After receiving an undertaking that positive action would be taken and offenders immediately dismissed, he granted the application.

Mr. S. Herd,. a representative of Jaguar Cars, Ltd., said their output was 12,000 cars per annum and they visualized a 10 per cent, increase in the next 12 months.

Reading this takes me back!

 

The "B licence" referred to was the old system of the government controlling road transport. If I recall correctly an A licence (hard to get) would allow you to carry anything for anybody anywhere (unless restricted to regions I believe) in the UK.  A B licence (easier to get) allowed you to do that for named customers, thus the support of Jaguar in this application. A C licence only allowed you to carry goods for your own business. So I guess that is what race teams would have needed in the UK on their transporters.  



#2955 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 18:41

Thank you Mark A .



#2956 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 22:00

This is how we did it in Oz....

 

WFarm_68_Jim_Clark_Trailer_01.jpg

? That trailer plate is not Australian. The cars are though. Maybe NZ? 



#2957 WOT

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 07:32

? That trailer plate is not Australian. The cars are though. Maybe NZ? 

 

Didn't really notice it when I took that pic in '68, but as I was scanning photos many, many years later, it caught my attention but never really bothered me to follow it up. My guess is that you are correct - NZ. The New Zealand portion of the Tasman Series preceded the Australian segment, so I'm guessing they organised the trailer in NZ and flew the whole kit and caboodle out to Aus. But the pic is very definitely Warwick Farm Pits 1968.


#2958 Dipster

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 07:41

What is the van to the left of the photo? It looks a little like an old Bedford CA but as it has slam doors with wind up windows I doubt it. 

 

The plate looks like the rear one of a pair (the front would have had either a triangular or rectangular window  added wherein to stuck the licence) of old British trade plates!



#2959 nicanary

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 10:00

The registration letters "PW"  are applicable to the county of Norfolk in the UK. Could GLTL have flown out a trailer to transport the car during the Tasman season?



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#2960 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 10:03

Originally posted by Dipster
What is the van to the left of the photo? It looks a little like an old Bedford CA but as it has slam doors with wind up windows I doubt it.....


That's either a Dodge or a Fargo, 108" wheelbase, it looks like it has the factory windows (not real common). It's the old 'Pilot House' style as built from 1949 or so, sold here until 1961 in pretty much unchanged form. At least the bits we can see in this pic.

#2961 Dipster

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 10:52

The registration letters "PW"  are applicable to the county of Norfolk in the UK. Could GLTL have flown out a trailer to transport the car during the Tasman season?

Interesting thought. The trailer has orange indicator lamps. Were Oz indicators orange or red at that time? If red that would perhaps reinforce the theory. 



#2962 baz

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 10:52

Ok Ray, you,ve picked the truck but what about the movie camera the guy in the check shorts is holding?



#2963 WOT

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 12:56

You guys are amazing!!

 

Come on Ray, give us the specs on that movie camera....

 

 

Interesting thought. The trailer has orange indicator lamps. Were Oz indicators orange or red at that time? If red that would perhaps reinforce the theory. 

 

As far as I can recall, we have always had legal requirement for orange indicators in Oz. Maybe someone can go back further than I can?



#2964 D-Type

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 18:57

The movie camera looks extremely slim - is it a Fuji Single 8 camera?



#2965 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 20:52

I'm not at all sure about the movie camera, nor the brand of his checkered shorts...

But I can tell you that amber turn indicators became mandatory in Australia around 1959. Some FC Holdens had white reversing lights, late in the model run they were replaced by amber for the indicators and the red section of the light retained only brake and tail lights.

#2966 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 20:59

WOT, I suspect that photo would look good in our new Tasman book... e.mail me please...

Maybe Team Lotus flew out the numberplates and hired the trailer locally?

#2967 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 22:26

I'm not at all sure about the movie camera, nor the brand of his checkered shorts...

But I can tell you that amber turn indicators became mandatory in Australia around 1959. Some FC Holdens had white reversing lights, late in the model run they were replaced by amber for the indicators and the red section of the light retained only brake and tail lights.

FE Holdens had red turn signals, FC had yellow. On the FE the white lights were purely for the optional; reverse lights.

Then for over 50 years flashing brake lights were illegal. It is now legal again on cars produced thus, eg American imports.

 

The numberplate is still the conunderam though. I cant see any value paying freight to bring a simple trailer in from overseas. A little organisation would be to borrow or hire one. As the towcar appears to be. 

Actually another look the plate is tied on with rope. So probably a trade plate.

Where are you Seldo? You probably recognise a plate of the day.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 06 December 2014 - 22:28.


#2968 GMACKIE

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 22:39

Early FCs had had white [reversing] lenses, later ones were yellow.

 

I worked on them in the day, and remember the confusion at the time. There was also different lengths of the chrome moulds on the rear 1/4 panels. Good spare-parts operators would always ask the question, rather than have to swap them over later.



#2969 JtP2

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 00:09

Basically an A liceince allowed you to any goods anywhere. the vehicle tare weight was restricted and could be added to at something like 5cwt per year. A B licience allowed you the carry restricted goods over a restricted radius from your depot, this again could be increased progressively annually. A C licience allowed you to carry only your goods anywhere or in the case of a haulage contractor,  only a specific customers goods anywhere.



#2970 275 GTB-4

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 00:31

The numberplate is still the conunderam though. I cant see any value paying freight to bring a simple trailer in from overseas. A little organisation would be to borrow or hire one. As the towcar appears to be.


Lee, were all the Tasman Cars air freighted over to NZ and Australia in the period? If not, lashing a 49 to a basic trailer to protect its corners and to use as a transporter in-country might not be so far fetched.

#2971 WOT

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 03:59

The numberplate is still the conunderam though. I cant see any value paying freight to bring a simple trailer in from overseas. A little organisation would be to borrow or hire one. As the towcar appears to be. 

Actually another look the plate is tied on with rope. So probably a trade plate.

Where are you Seldo? You probably recognise a plate of the day.

 

The more I look at it, the more I'm convinced it's not an Aus plate. Didn't all Aus plates have the "State" embossed on the plate? And even if they were trade plates, I'm sure they were embossed appropriately as well?


#2972 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 07:43

It is NOT an Australian plate of any kind...

First, thanks for backing me up on the FC blinkers, Greg. It was only late in the FC run that changed.

Mick, and others, mostly the cars travelled by sea, certainly between NZ and Australia. Borrowed and hired trailers were the order of the day.

#2973 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 08:03

In the meantime, Dick Willis has sent this one... with the following explanation...

Elfin Bill Hemming bought an Elfin F Ford project in WA recently, the guys from WA brought it to Eastern Creek for him in their container but Bill then had to work out how to get it back to Melb, he was already carrying one car in the bus and another, his 5000, on the trailer behind so it seemed there was only one option---


1214frdickwilliscaronbus.jpg

#2974 seldo

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 21:08

.... 
The numberplate is still the conunderam though. I cant see any value paying freight to bring a simple trailer in from overseas. A little organisation would be to borrow or hire one. As the towcar appears to be. 
Actually another look the plate is tied on with rope. So probably a trade plate.
Where are you Seldo? You probably recognise a plate of the day.

It's not a plate that I recognise Lee. Certainly not an Australian trade plate, but it does have some NZishness (like that word ?) about it.



#2975 fbarrett

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 18:52

If you have not seen this excellent video of the ex-Porsche factory race-car transporter now owned by Brumos Porsche in Florida, check this: http://www.brumoscol...m/shop-1/buster (scroll down on the site).

 

Frank


Edited by fbarrett, 08 December 2014 - 18:53.


#2976 Levin68

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 21:38

It's not a New Zealand number plate. A trailer plate at that time (in fact since 1964) would have been silver on black, with three digits and two letters, with a warrant of fitness sticker on the right hand end of the plate. Nor is the number style familiar from any NZ number plates prior to the silver and black ones.



#2977 Dipster

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 22:14

Not Oz or NZ. So, as odd as it seems, I think we might be back to a UK trade plate that escaped from the factory! Are there any old Lotus hands of the time on TNF (or do any TNFers know of any who could be asked) who may be able to cast some light on this?



#2978 FrankCornell

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 23:00

 

On the Merc truck, didn't Dean Moon try to build a similar transporter, out of El Camino parts?
 

 

Yes. http://blog.hemmings...kely-el-camino/



#2979 cooper997

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 05:03

The Alec Mildren Dodge transporter at the Feb 69 Sandown Tasman meeting, if my suspicions are correct. KB Brabham-Alfa & FG Mildren-Alfa (below).

 

Mildren_transporter.jpg
upload pics

 

Stephen



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#2980 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 05:28

It's not a plate that I recognise Lee. Certainly not an Australian trade plate, but it does have some NZishness (like that word ?) about it.

I do like that word!



#2981 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 05:29

The Alec Mildren Dodge transporter at the Feb 69 Sandown Tasman meeting, if my suspicions are correct. KB Brabham-Alfa & FG Mildren-Alfa (below).

 

Mildren_transporter.jpg
upload pics

 

Stephen

I guess the workshop rat did the sign writing on the truck! Not a real good look.

Dodge 353 or 460 with either a long distance fuel tank [44 gall] or a neat way of carrying race fuel.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 09 December 2014 - 05:32.


#2982 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 18:54

353 or 460?

I don't recognise those numbers. Not for AT4s at least.

#2983 BRG

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 19:25

Not Oz or NZ. So, as odd as it seems, I think we might be back to a UK trade plate that escaped from the factory! Are there any old Lotus hands of the time on TNF (or do any TNFers know of any who could be asked) who may be able to cast some light on this?

It is certainly the correct font and style for the period for the UK.  But in the UK a trailer or caravan carries the registration number of the tow vehicle. It'a not a UK trade plate, I think, as they are red and have a triangular bit above the plate above the plate that carries some sort of documentary authority.

 

I think nicanary's theory in post #2959 as to why it would on a trailer in Aus/NZ could be right.  This is a Norfolk UK registration plate and perhaps belonged to the vehicle that towed the trailer from Hethel to the port.  Someone forgot to take it off and it had a nice trip to the other end of the earth!


Edited by BRG, 09 December 2014 - 19:25.


#2984 nicanary

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 21:18

Er - the plate background looks red to me. Just saying.



#2985 Dipster

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 21:37

It is certainly the correct font and style for the period for the UK.  But in the UK a trailer or caravan carries the registration number of the tow vehicle. It'a not a UK trade plate, I think, as they are red and have a triangular bit above the plate above the plate that carries some sort of documentary authority.

 

I think nicanary's theory in post #2959 as to why it would on a trailer in Aus/NZ could be right.  This is a Norfolk UK registration plate and perhaps belonged to the vehicle that towed the trailer from Hethel to the port.  Someone forgot to take it off and it had a nice trip to the other end of the earth!

I too see the plate as red.

 

Also only the front trade plate had either a rectangular or triangular attachment wherein the licence authorising their use would be displayed. This plate was attached to the front of the vehicle. The plain plate was attached to the rear obviously. The shape difference of the attachment actually indicated what use the plates were authorised for. I am taxing my memory here but I think the triangular attachment was fitted to plates for use on vehicles the plate holder owned (car deliveries from the factory for example) and the rectangular was for use on any vehicle the licence holder wished to fix them on (or it could be the other way round. It is a long time since I used them!....).

 

So I think that this plate may well have escaped from the factory.



#2986 seldo

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 22:50

Things were a bit more casual back then and I know of plenty who would grab any old plate to stick on their unregistered trailer to use for the weekend.... ;)



#2987 Piquet959

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 08:00

Speaking from experience!
It still happens take the plate off the boat trailer (registered) and put it on the trailer to take the rubbish to the tip.

#2988 Dipster

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 09:29

Ah, one of the few motoring luxuries that remain for us in the UK. Unlike (all of?)  the EU we do not register trailers as independent vehicles. We still simply tack the tow vehicles plate on the back and off we go!



#2989 GreenMachine

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 09:31

Speaking from experience!
It still happens take the plate off the boat trailer (registered) and put it on the trailer to take the rubbish to the tip.

Not recommended. The number plate recognition will tell the copper all about the vehicle it is attached to and that could result in much more than an unregistered trailer fine.

#2990 BRG

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 19:45

Er - the plate background looks red to me. Just saying.

Not on my screen, it doesn't.  Anyway UK trade plates are red script on a white background, with a red surround, so it ain't one of them..  



#2991 ernieb

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 20:09

In the late 60's there were different colours for trade plates, general plates as on the photo were white lettering on red with a square licence holder on the front plate only, limited plates were red on white with a triangular licence holder.

This all changed mid 70's? - to all plates being red on white.

It's an age thing!



#2992 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 21:02

353 or 460?

I don't recognise those numbers. Not for AT4s at least.

C"mon you should. 3, 3 ton 53 153" wheel base hence 353, 4ton 160" wheelbase 460. 3 ton came in 329 and 353 the most common, 460 and 475 etc. All those AT4s were literally numbered as such. Between the chrome mouldings on the front guards.

D5Ns were just 200 300 400 etc but still had the same wheel bases. Many of those models came with different wheel sizes too. 400 series AT4 or D5N had 16s [most common] a few with 17s and a few with 7 50 20 too

 In my time they were a cheap small truck to use as a transporter, I had several over the years as did several others I know.

Clem Smith still has his D5N 300 V8 bought new, The ex McCormack , Monterosso, Rosenberg 400 had 20" wheels, I had a couple 300s, couple  400s, 353 dual cab, An Inter 175" and last and best a 3 ton Acco, 14 foot tray 345V8. Most of my trucks were used a s transporters but too were used vehicle stock. I think the V8 dual cab is still around in the off road circuit.



#2993 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 21:12

Not recommended. The number plate recognition will tell the copper all about the vehicle it is attached to and that could result in much more than an unregistered trailer fine.

Big Brother is alive and well. Orson Welles was right, just a little early.

Though at least here trailers are registered as 2 wheels or 4 and the load capacity, eg a 2 tonne car trailer will be distinguished from a single axle 6x4. Though probably not the 1 tonne boat trailer.

As big a pain as it is you have to register the buggers in this world. Have an accident and you MAY be in the poo.

Luckily I only have one, the 2 tonne car trailer.Gave up on trucks, rego plus insurance costs became huge, I did not use them enough to warrant it. 

These days towcars are better and light truck radials largely have resolved the tyre problems as well as decent rocker, better rocker and roller suspensions. So towing them is now not very hard work on both towcar and driver. And ofcourse a Landcruiser is a very good tow vehicle too, though I still do use my 71 Galaxie too on occasion for local events or pickups. It has towed racecars since it was new,,, though in its heyday it towed 5000s or a Boral Sports.



#2994 JtP2

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 23:57

Possibly the trailer has the UK  trade plate attached for use instead of a carnet and might be simpler than actually doing the paper work for the trailer as an item.



#2995 275 GTB-4

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 05:12

Possibly the trailer has the UK  trade plate attached for use instead of a carnet and might be simpler than actually doing the paper work for the trailer as an item.


But Shirley, even so, you would still need a Carnet de Passages en Douane to bring it in temporarily? This means the trailer would have had to be returned home, possibly with a 49 on it...

#2996 GMACKIE

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 05:20

No Mick, you just flog the second-hand car and the trailer to some poor colonial, and take the plate home in your luggage.  ;)



#2997 JtP2

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 12:49

I was under the impression that a registered vehicle did not require a carnet as the registration documents sufficed.



#2998 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 21:52

I doubt the legality of a trade plate on a trailer, especially in another country!



#2999 JtP2

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 22:11

Lee, that might be the case, but do the local authorities in the other country know it?



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#3000 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 00:30

This was NSW...

They would have known it and pounced on it, even in the sixties.




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 12 December 2014 - 00:31.