114 replies to this topic

[GIGLEUX]

Of course, I'am continuing doing researches!
An "echo" just found in "L'Actualité Automobile" n°140 of 02/05/1934:
"The SEFAC car with which Raymond Sommer was to race is still notready. So by waiting, Sommer will race his Maserati single-seater, revised and modified as for at chassis level, modifications from which he is awaiting great amelioration of road holding."

[GIGLEUX]

At last I found a picture of it! 1935, course de côte (hillclimb) des Alpilles, Chambost with the ex-Sommer's Maserati.

[Egon Thurner]

Thank you very much, Jean-Maurice. Great!

Finally the puzzle (the picture in question; post 1 of this thread) is solved - at least the 'WHAT'. I'm nearly convinced about Chambost as 'WHO' too (but it's more a 'feeling' than 'knowledge', if you understand, what I mean. I cannot exclude Maleplane for sure, but that possibility seems not very likely.)

The 'WHERE' is not that important I think. And - maybe also to solve now.

Am I allowed to add another question in connection with De Maleplane? If he got his '2515' (with engine '43') in the middle of 1932, what kind of Maserati did he drive 1931 and the first half of 1932?

[robert dick]

De Maleplane on Maserati in the second half of the 1931 season (Dieppe, Grenoble, St. Gaudens, etc...) :
Seems that it was already chassis 2515 with engine 43, bought in July just after the GP de la Marne (where Dreyfus finished 2nd on the Maserati, and de Maleplane 5th on his Bugatti) from/via Dreyfus who had the French Maserati agency/representation at Nice.
In this case 2515 was not available anymore for Dreyfus so that we need a substitute.

Since, according to photos of the works cars, there is no apparent external difference between the second half of 1931 and 1932, a solution could be that 3001 and 3002 already appeared during the 1931 season and not at the beginning of 1932.
Originally, in 1931, 3001 and 3002 were powered by 8C2800 engines (69/94 mm) and, over the winter of 1931/32, received larger crankcases to displace full 3 litres (69/100 mm), to become the famous 8C3000 duo as it is commonly known today.
(just a theory)

[Michael Müller]

Unfortunately most of the photos are offline in the meantime.
Is there anybody around who archived the picture posted in #102?
If so, I would highly appreciate a copy of it by eMail (michael at axos dot nl).

[Marc Ceulemans]

Michael, have you receive my email ?

[Michael Müller]

Marc, yes, I just mailed back.
No, that's the picture opening the thread posted by Egon.

[Hans Etzrodt]

Originally posted by Michael Müller
...Is there anybody around who archived the picture posted in #102?...

Michael - check your mail.

[Michael Müller]

Most pictures in this thread unfortunately disappeared over the years, and I’m afraid the same happened to some competent posters. However, I would like to continue this highly interesting discussion.

This is the photo from the opening posting:



The original capture said it shows de Maleplane at a French hillclimb.

This is the picture posted by Jean Maurice in #102, said to be Chambost with the ex-Sommer Maserati, 1935 course de côte (hillclimb) des Alpilles:



Is this in fact the same car? Egon is convinced, any other opinions?
If so, the caption “de Maleplane” of the first photo is wrong, it should be Chambost at another hillclimb in 1935.

A lot of technical details – especially in photo #1 – may led to the conclusion that this is Sommer’s Special he drove in the 1934 season, which – if I follow the discussion here in this thread – could have been the 8CM #3006, with SEFAC (or SEFAC altered) frame, 2-seater bodywork, special shock absorbers, etc. So far so good, but Sommer’s Special had a different nose:





Could it be that Chambost changed this unique radiator cowl back to a standard Maserati one? Basically yes, but it would not make any real sense.

And here’s the reason I unearthed this old thread:



Helène Delangle, better known as Hellé-Nice, at the La Turbie hillclimb in April 1936! Photo and caption from the book “The Bugatti Queen” by Miranda Seymour.

[Michael Müller]

Nobody...?
For me this is clearly the Sommer Special, not with the radiator cowling he used at Spa, but with the slightly different one which could be seen at the Albi picture. Clearly visible the DeRam dampers and the oilcooler.

So if Chambost converted the nose to standard Maserati cowling in 1935, how is it possible that the special Sommer cowling is back again in 1936? Do we have 2 different cars? Or is the La Turbie photo not from 1936 but from 1934? And what is Hellé-Nice's relation to the car? Is she only having a chat with the driver / mechanic? Can anybody confirm the surroundings being La Turbie? Anybody having an entry list for La Turbie in 1934/35/36 in order to identify the r/n 20, and to confirm Hellé-Nice's attendance?

[David McKinney]

Can't help with anything specific, I fear.
De Maleplane had an earlier model Maserati, but I suppose he could have borrowed the Chambost car. More likely, as you suggest, it is a caption error and not de Maleplane at all.
I don't have any record of Sommer in his car at La Turbie at all - but do have Chambost in both 1935 and 1936. Surely Hellé-Nice is just having a look?
It's surely just one car, but I agree we need La Turbie numbers to sort out the confusion of the nose-changes

[Egon Thurner]

Originally posted by Michael Müller
... the Sommer Special, not with the radiator cowling he used at Spa, but with the slightly different one which could be seen at the Albi picture.

For me the same cowling at Spa and at Albi and in the new pic. Spa looks somehow different, but in my oppinion only not sharp because of the cars movement. I think, 1936 might be wrong for the latest pic.

[Marc Ceulemans]

La Turbie

1935, April 18
Chambost (Maserati 8CM), 4th and 3nd Racing car 3-litre.
"Hellé Nice" (Alfa Romeo), 6th and 2nd Sport car 3-litre.

1936, April 9
Chambost (Maserati 8CM), 3rd and 1st Racing car 3-litre.
"Hellé Nice" (Alfa Romeo), 1st Sport car 3-litres.

For me the picture was taken either in 1935 or 1936.

[Forgham]

Apologies for being so late in catching the revival of this thread.

Regarding the last photo which Michael Muller posted, the photo has unfortunately been mis-captioned in the Miranda Seymour book.

The car had already acquired the later, Maserati-like, nose by the time Sommer appeared at Nice in August 1934.
The car's front can be seen on grid photos of this race.

So the Helle-Nice photo must be in 1934 prior to the Nice event.
From the pits visible in the background the photo looks much more like a photo taken at a race rather than a hillclimb.
The only event at which Sommer was No.20 with this car was the GP du Maroc at Anfa on 20th May 1934, which seems to have been the car's first appearance.
Helle-Nice was indeed at this event, driving an Alfa 2300 Monza, and a photo of her on p675 of Simon Moore's wonderful book confirms that the Miranda Seymour photo is indeed taken at Anfa.

ADAM

Edited by Forgham, 15 February 2010 - 09:48.

[ERault]

As this thread has some interesting discussion on Maserati 2515, maybe this would be of interest to some :

http://www.christies...t...next&page=2

Sadly, the "as found" pictures mentioned in the text are gone.

Do you know of others (more or less) proven re-use of chassis by Maserati on the Tipo 26 serie ? That would be a factor in the relatively low surviving rate of the early cars (chassis 11 to 44, with 17 excluded, and a "second serie" numbering from 2010 to 2521, with 40 and 2519 as engines only, all according to Orsini & Zagari).