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1966 BRM - model request


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#1 911

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 15:15

Does anyone here know where I can buy a replica (it can be 1/43, 1/18th, etc) of this car? I know Replicarz (sp) has some of the early 60's BRM, but not 1965 or 1966. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

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#2 Vrba

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 15:45

There are kits of BRM P261 (1965 and 1966 versions) made by Tenariv and available at www.grandprixmodels.co.uk. But, as I wrote, they are kits, not built models.

Hrvoje

#3 911

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 15:47

Vrba,

That's a start. Thanks for the link. I may have to buy two because I know I'll mess the first one up! :)

911

#4 Vitesse2

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 15:48

Which 1966 BRM? For most of the season the works team used modified P261s: the P83 H16 didn't arrive until Italy - and only Stewart's got past the end of lap 1 :rolleyes:

Apart from a few minor detail changes, a 1965 or 1966 P261 would look pretty much the same as a 1964 one!

#5 911

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 15:58

Vrba,

I went to that sight, but I couldn't get any information on these cars (BRM '65 & '66). Perhaps I didn't put the correct information in the search engine. What did you do to get access to these models? Thanks.

Rich

#6 Vitesse2

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 16:08

http://www.grandprix...&t=None&c=

All apparently out of stock ....

#7 jph

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 16:16

I went to that sight, but I couldn't get any information on these cars (BRM '65 & '66). Perhaps I didn't put the correct information in the search engine. What did you do to get access to these models? Thanks.



Go to the 'on line model shop' page and enter BRM in the car type box and scroll down the list of manufacturers and click on Tenariv. They do a number of P261 variants, including the Chamaco Collect car as well as the works versions. Also, Scale Racing Cars do a 1967 H16 (Belgian GP version, available as kit or built) and there's anothe H16 due from a company called Modellisimo Leonardo. If you want to see the full range of BRM models, just leave the model manufacturer field blank.


All apparently out of stock ....



I've always found that Grand Prix Models do a very good back order service, and they are very helpful.

#8 panzani

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 16:21

There are always diecasts being sold on eBay, sometimes there are some F1 replicas available [ here ].

Unfortunately exoto does not have this car available, their replicas are outstanding, IMHO.

Hope this helps.

#9 911

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 16:24

Thanks, everyone, for your prompt replies. I did finally find the models on that website. I think the catalog numbers are TEN153 & TEN154. So, I've ordered the '65 & '66 models (1/43rd). I've always wanted a model of this car, so I'm quite pleased to have finally found it (through everyone's help here!). Santa came early this year! :)

#10 dretceterini

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 18:26

I'm sure Grand Prix models can have any kit built up for you, but in today's world, it generally runs around $100 to have a professional modeler build up a kit. MA scale models (Mike Arnesdorf) in Orange County, California alos builds 1/43rd models on a professional basis.

#11 Roger Clark

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 19:01

Originally posted by Vitesse2


Apart from a few minor detail changes, a 1965 or 1966 P261 would look pretty much the same as a 1964 one!

The 1964 car was quite different from the later ones.

#12 Alan Baker

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Posted 08 December 2003 - 19:30

Originally posted by Roger Clark

The 1964 car was quite different from the later ones.


Details or quite different? The 1964 P261 was powered by the centre inlet, side exhaust engine instead of the intended centre exhaust version, requiring slots to be cut in the rear monocoque horns for the low level exhausts. The new engine appeared on Hill's new 2616 at Monza that year. In 1965 the centre exhaust engine only was used in 2616 and Stewart's 2617, with 2615 and 2614 being the regular spares. Compared to '64, the cars now had slots on the top of the nose cone ( two semi circles on 2616, a trianglular shape on 2617) and, for the first part of the season, there were three slots on the lip of the radiator air intake, two above and one below. Both of these mods were due to the centre exhaust engine running hotter than the old centre inlet version. Later in '65 the slots disappeared as the turned in lip was cut away to give a larger intake. In 1966, the use of the 1.9 litre and, later, 2.1 litre V-8's made cooling more of a problem and the engine to radiator return pipe was mounted externally alongside the right hand side of the cockpit. It is quite easy to look at a photo of a P261 and determine which year it was taken, unsullied nose cone and low exhausts in '64 (and Ginther in one of the cars!), slotted nose and centre exhaust in '65 and outside water pipe in '66 (plus Hill's new Bell helmet with clip on peak which he adopted that year).

#13 Roger Clark

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Posted 09 December 2003 - 08:10

That's what I had in mind; significant differences by the standards of the time!

#14 911

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 02:29

Does anyone here have any good advice about putting together this 1/43rd scale model? I've never worked on cars that small. Do I need special tools, paint, glue, etc? Thanks.

#15 dretceterini

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 02:45

I use crazy glue for assembly of all parts that won't be seen, and white glue on most parts that will. The problem with crazy glue is if you miss putting the part exactly where you want it, it can make a mess of your paint job. What I have found works best for glue application is removing half of the paper off a baggie twist-tie and applying the glue with the thin wire end. I always use white glue for things like the photo-etched window surrounds. Work slow and carefully; make sure the paint is dry before buffing it out. An exact knife works for cutting the photo-etched parts from the tree they are on, and a small tweaser helps hold the parts

#16 Vrba

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 08:23

I have started with 1/43 kits 4 years ago and soon realized that working with metal is a real pleasure. I started with only basic tools (a pair of tweezers, an awl, two brushes, sandpaper, a nail file and superglue) and building models out of the box, and gradually progressed first with using spray lacquers and adding more and more tools in my toolbox: needle files, small drills (essential!), electric rotary tool, double action airbrush, polishing system consisting of several very fine grit sandpapers, etc. I also started using two-component epoxyde glue for certain purposes (as a filler, for adding up/modelling missing parts of bodywork, etc.). Beside that, I bought plenty of various aftermarket items for superdetailing like shock absorbers, gearshift levers, nuts (the most extreme ones are hex nuts 0,35mm in diameter :-)), turned exhaust pipes, rear lights, small diameter wires in various colors, etc. Due to the nature of white metal, I tried soldering and found limited use of soldering useful. There's virtually no limit in how far one can go with tools and detailing but I've noticed that it now takes three or four times more time for me to complete a model....I have to simplify things a bit :-)

Nevertheless, my principle is always the same:
- sand off all the seam lines and flush from body parts
- put all the body parts (or as much as possible) together, fill the seams and sand them flat
- drill all the holes (for suspension, etc.). It's quite easy to rectify all the mistakes while working with metal parts.
- put coats of primer, sand them
- paint the body white (if the final body colour is not a very dark one)
- put the final colour
- apply decals
- apply the clear coat (several thin ones, as with every colour). The body is more-less finished now.
- sand the tyre surfaces to make them look more realistic
- attach the suspension and wheels
- build and add wings (epoxy glue is useful here)
- add final details (aerials, cameras, etc.) and final paint touch-ups. If the windshield is flat, I glue it to the body using clear lacquer.
That's it!

Hrvoje

#17 D-Type

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 13:38

Originally posted by 911
Does anyone here have any good advice about putting together this 1/43rd scale model? I've never worked on cars that small. Do I need special tools, paint, glue, etc? Thanks.

Try Grand Prix Models website The notes are excellent. Explore the site and go to the 'Technique' pages in Four Small Wheels. the only trouble is that FSW is not indexed and you get sidetracked when browsing (a bit like TNF!)

Metal kits are not as easy as they look - they make you feel you have ten thumbs (it took me three tries to assemble the 8-part rear wing on one model). But the end result can be very satisfying.

Good luck!

#18 911

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 15:20

Wow, it sounds like a lot is involved here. It's a good thing that I bought 2 of them!!

Vrba - how would you advise painting the red nose of the BRM? I"m going to guess that you need to tape it off, but what's the best way to do that so the red stripe isn't crooked? Thanks!

#19 Vrba

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 18:32

Originally posted by 911
Wow, it sounds like a lot is involved here. It's a good thing that I bought 2 of them!!

Vrba - how would you advise painting the red nose of the BRM? I"m going to guess that you need to tape it off, but what's the best way to do that so the red stripe isn't crooked? Thanks!

It's a good question. I was faced with such problem three times: first with 1/43 SRC Lotus 72, then with 1/43 Tameo Williams FW18 and with 1/43 Tenariv Ferrari 312T. In all cases I used ordinary cello tape (is this a term for common transparent self-adhesive tape?) - the thinner, the better - and managed to do Lotus very well, Williams not so well and Ferrari so-so. That's a bit strange because the Lotus was the most difficult case. I even needed to cut the tape round for the Lotus's nose. I first painted the whole car white, then masked the white lower part and sprayed red on the car. After that, I masked the red part of the nose and applied gold over red on the nose - I applied the Humbrol gold paint with brush instead of spraying it and somehow it worked very well (in fact the gold part looked even better before applying the clear coat, the clear coat made gold look somehow more grainy). It is very important to let all the paints dry thorough before removing the tape because, if the paint is still elastic (acrylic ones especially), the paint layer will raise on the edges. Also, I think it's a good idea to run the knife or razor blade precisely down the edge of masking tape, just to separate the paint on the tape from the paint on the car. Also, the most often case is when there's a decal going over the border between the colours. That's good because the joint can be sanded and then covered by decal.
The problem is that I always end up with different number of coats giving the different thickness of paint - the joint is like a small stair....I haven't solved it yet because it looked too complicated to me to mask the other part of the car and paint it to get even thickness of paints....
All in all, use thin transparent tape, mask carefully and painstakingly, let the paint dry thoroughly, cut the paint on the joint and sand the joint! Then put a clear coat over all.
But...I'm just an amateur working as good as I can, I think that real masters could be much more helpful than me here. Try contacting some of Japanese wonder-builders like Akihiro Kamimura (http://members3.tsukaeru.net/ak-model).

Hrvoje

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#20 dretceterini

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 18:38

Baking soda with a drop of crazy glue actually works as an excellent filler on resin kits. There is a filler called Akemi that I've also had excellent luck with, as it is very fine and doesn't "pinhole". As for sqaring up decals, you can use grid paper. Line up the centerline of the car on on of the lines on the paper.. Solvset (available at most hobby shops) softens the decals so that they conform better.


Building a modern F1 kit with lots of photo-etched parts is VERY time consuming. If you don't have a lot of skill and a LOT of patience, you might be better off giving the kit to a professional builder.

#21 jph

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 19:43

Vrba - how would you advise painting the red nose of the BRM? I"m going to guess that you need to tape it off, but what's the best way to do that so the red stripe isn't crooked? Thanks!



Don't worry, the Tenariv BRM kits have a decal for the nose band. Also, for tips on technique, there used to be (maybe still is) a magazine-sized publication called 'World of 43rd', written by John Simons of Marsh Models - one of the acknowledged experts in the field. Once again, if it's still available, Grand Prix Models should be able to help.

#22 2F-001

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Posted 10 December 2003 - 23:15

I'm the very proud owner of a few John Simons-built 1/43s... the quality and finish is lovely...
three of them are Chaparrals, as you might imagine... all aquired in the days when I has disposable cash!

On a tangent, and of no real historic content, a friend of mine is doing some modelling as a sideline - mostly Lotus and Caterham at the moment and is super-detailing die-casts and kits into replicas of owners actual cars (no two Sevens are quite the same...). He's currently turning a pair of Tamiya 1/12th kits into a couple of racing R500s - not so much of the kit is useable beyond the chassis and panelling so there's a load of fabricating and fiddling and small-scale machining. If you fancy a look, go here

http://www.mycaterha...1102/15191.html

have a ogle there, and then go to ''part 2'' from his menu where it gets a little sillier still.
(I think he must actually make a loss on this job!)