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Dick Seaman TV programme - UK Channel 4


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#101 RTH

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Posted 14 January 2004 - 22:52

It was certainly just up my street, I was hoping it might at least become an annual event - and they do not need a high profile well paid celebrity guest - as you say just the chat about the films was fascinating, and something that can be watched over several times.

I'm sure a few people here could suggest a few topics and footage to be chewed over for a new edition.

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#102 MichaelJP

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 09:11

Originally posted by Tim Murray


Have a look at these old threads:

Paint stripping:

http://forums.atlasf...ifelrennen 1934


Yes, unfortunately that thread doesn't seem to reach a conclusion. Doug's comment seemed quite emphatic that the whole story was a fabrication by Neubauer...

Still, the best mysteries are the unsolved ones:)

- Michael

#103 Breadmaster

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 09:17

Originally posted by 2F-001
Breadmaster -


just for reference, the first one included:
Roman Polanski's "Weekend of a Champion" (following JYS through the weekend of the '71 Monaco GP).
"Nine days of Summer" (the story behind the DFV).
"Seig Rekord Meisterschaft" (1938-39 with Mercedes).
"Secret Lives: Colin Chapman" (a warts-and-all and then yet more warts documentary with lots of anecdotes)
Maybe another film I've forgotten about.
The films were interspersed with chat and reminiscences among, Alain de Cadanet, Nigel Roebuck, DCN, Richard Williams and filmmaker Brian Johnston.


the second one "An evening with Striling Moss", included:
"Being Stirling Moss".
"Masterclass" (a few laps of Donington with Moss).
"1958 GP season".
"A guide to 50s style".
"1955 TT at Dundrod".
"1953 Mille Miglia".
"Two laps of honour".
"The rear-engined revolution".
(some of those are my descriptions, rather than actual titles).
Interspersed with chat amongst Moss, Roebuck, DCN, Richard Williams and Peter Windsor.


Both were marvellously entertaining.


I believe Emlyn (Nigel Red 5) has the first one in his vast collection (which I will be purchasing of course!) can't wait!

#104 Darren Galpin

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 09:28

I have the first of those evenings on video tape. One day I'll buy a PC powerful enough to encode the lot and dump it to DVD.............. Or I hope so. I've got video's with a lot of old stuff (old to me - I wasn't even a teenager when I taped some of it!) on them that I'd like to ensure I can keep and use (remember the BTCC days with Sierra RS500s, or Martin Schanche in an RS200 at the Brands Hatch Rallycross GP? Or the days when the Formula Ford Festival made it to BBC Grandstand?), and it would be far easier to have it all in "digital".

#105 D-Type

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Posted 16 January 2004 - 13:38

Originally posted by D-Type
So we'll all watch it and thoroughly enjoy spotting and discussing the inaccuracies.;)

Well now, I enjoyed the programme; I cringed at the first 5 minutes; I smiled indulgently at Porsche founding Auto Union; etc.

I have also enjoyed the last 100 postings discussing it.

Channel 4, please repeat! Or better still repeat the petrolhead evenings.

#106 Breadmaster

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Posted 16 January 2004 - 13:46

i say they should do both and dedicate at least one evening a week to motorsport!

#107 karlcars

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Posted 16 January 2004 - 14:49

I had quite a few points of which to be critical --

-- When Porsche unrolls the drawings to show Hitler his P-Wagen, they show a Mercedes instead...
-- Porsche is said to have started Auto Union; the producers are changing this for later broadcasts...
-- Not enough is said about Seaman often driving well over his head...
-- indeed the Delage is shown but not explained...

But what I find most surprising is that apparently Seaman never spoke to camera. It's incredible that we have no sound footage of him. It must not exist, because the chaps certainly did a great job of finding other footage of the era.

#108 RTH

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Posted 16 January 2004 - 15:31

Originally posted by D-Type

Well now, I enjoyed the programme; I cringed at the first 5 minutes; I smiled indulgently at Porsche founding Auto Union; etc.

I have also enjoyed the last 100 postings discussing it.

Channel 4, please repeat! Or better still repeat the petrolhead evenings.


Well they have just lost all the WRC coverage to ITV, and Channel 4 's commissioning editor for this type of factual programme responsible for the Seaman documentary has been tipped to read this thread.

So lets hope we could see much more of these sort of programmes.

#109 Doug Nye

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Posted 16 January 2004 - 16:11

Originally posted by RTH
...and Channel 4 's commissioning editor for this type of factual programme responsible for the Seaman documentary has been tipped to read this thread....


Oh great - well that's totally stuffed-up any televisual ambitions I might have entertained then! :p

DCN

#110 Paul Parker

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Posted 16 January 2004 - 16:46

I too read the programme blurb for the Seaman feature and had to explain to an interested but unknowledgeable acquaintance about the 'Berlin' GP nonsense. Ditto the tripe about Seaman being forgotten. Not in my experience and this after two recent tomes.

However the thing that really irritated me apart from as Doug says the ridiculous blurred recreations of RJBS was the random use of inappropriate film clips. Whilst discussing Spa shots of Bern 1938, the Ring in 39 and associated other bits and pieces kept turning up. Also when discussing the Mercs the film kept switching between W25, the W154 and probably other things I cannot now remember. The editing was rubbish, probably because they either did not have access to enough film material or more likely that artistic licence and expedience took preference over accuracy and continuity.

I thought it was very disappointing as it told us very little that was not already known unless of course you were uninformed in the first place.

#111 Gav Astill

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Posted 16 January 2004 - 17:10

**** CALLING ALL WELSHMEN ****

The program is being repeated this Monday (19th) evening at half past midnight (which I supose makes it Tuesday 20th) on S4C, which is the Welsh Channel 4. So if anyone lives within transmitter distance of Wales, you could tape it for all TNFers who missed it ............

Also on Monday night at 8 on Channel Five is "The Crashes That Changes Racing", described in the Radio Times as 'In the 1950s Grand Prix drivers had a 1 in 7 chance of dying. Tiff Needell narrates the exploration into the work done by scientists and engineers to improve those odds. Fatal crashes such as Formula One driver Ayrton Senn'a horrific smash in San Marino i 1994 are revisited and experts explain the lessons learned'.

#112 ensign14

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Posted 16 January 2004 - 17:32

Originally posted by Paul Parker
I thought it was very disappointing as it told us very little that was not already known unless of course you were uninformed in the first place.

I suppose that's the point. A dissection of the 1939 European Championship points system may have provided excellent new information but would have had an audience of about 47. These programmes are not aimed at us, more at the general viewer. (Jeez, that sounds so condescending.)

#113 Doug Nye

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Posted 16 January 2004 - 18:59

I suppose this should be another thread under a fresh title really - but I hesitate to give it prominence - just received from the Wark Clements TV production company, this communication about a programme due next Monday on UK TV Channel 5 reads in part: '"...The channel liked the programme so much that they asked for it to be re-edited to fit a more prominent transmission slot and changed the title to “The Crashes That Changed Racing”. Transmission time is Monday 19th January on Five at 8pm....'

Holy mackerel! ):

DCN

#114 RTH

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Posted 16 January 2004 - 20:07

On the contrary Doug, what Television needs right now are people like yourself - with integrity, honesty, personality, unafraid to speak out , - a few more Jeremy Paxmans and less gormless sycophants.

In fact I understand the C4 execs were so pleased with the reaction to the Seaman programme that they have already put a most attractive offer in the post to.................John Peel !

#115 Gary C

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Posted 16 January 2004 - 21:52

aaaaaaaagghhhhhhhhhh !!

#116 LittleChris

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 00:25

The programme made me think someone had accidentally bought Nixon's 'Shooting Star', realised that events within occurred when Adolf & friends were coming to power and decided that a programme featuring various photos nicked from the book and odds & ends of film could make them a bit of dosh !! Incidentally didn't John Peel used to be a regular visitor to Oulton Park in the 70's or was that DCN :D Certainly wasn't Max Turner !!

#117 RTH

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 10:01

John Peel is something of an old car enthusiast himself in fact - you may remember a few years ago he did the voice overs for that C4 series "Classic Cars " and the follow up series "Classic Trucks" and even " Classic Plant " - you may recall a one hour programme on the Ruston Bucyrus cable drawn earth digger and JCB 's part in the huge companies downfall.

I see Nigel Roebuck devoted much of his weekly page in 'Autosport' this week to glowing praise of 'Motor Films Quarterly' and the effort involved by DCN and Weg. The amazing amateur 8mm results produced by Freddie Barratt and how in 2004 at Silverstone people who have paid to attend are banished only to the outfield no one will be allowed across the track to the inside of the circuit so there will be no more films like this ever made by anyone again, and what a stupid short sighted policy it is to alienate the motor racing spectator who has already been so grossly overcharged and mistreated in the last decade or more .

How right he is .

#118 karlcars

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 10:15

Here in Suffolk we did notice that DCN had a bit of a beard trim for the filming -- very neat, Doug! :D

#119 neville mackay

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 12:03

In the circumstances, I thought the programme was a pretty good effort. Yes the start was excruciating, yes the soft focus stuff was unecessary and yes some of the clips were a bit wonky in terms of their veracity and relevance. But when did you see any other mainstream terrestrial broadcaster deveote an hour to what is - lets face it - a fairly specialist subject?

Pity about having to see Doug's beard though - freshly trimmed or not! Quite turned my stomach!

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#120 Doug Nye

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 12:59

Aaaarrrgggh! Thank you Karl - very sweet of you to admire the beard.

OK, OK, so it could be inferred that I sold out...something our late, utterly incorruptible little mate DSJ would never ever have done with his whiskers...

But then he didn't have a wife to ensure he was packed 'off to school' all neatly shined and polished... See Monday night - if the footage these wretched 'Crash' people shot with me gets used on C5 it might be more umm 'luxuriant'... :stoned:

DCN

PS - Neville - aplogies for the culture shock - free contribution to TNF pre-empts purchase of razor blades

#121 humphries

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 14:45

If it is that the racing driver Max Turner and R.M.Turner are one and the same, which I think is quite likely, then this is his racing record that I can glean from my files.

His name first appears in the programme for the T.T. at Donington on 3/9/1938. He is nominated as the reserve driver for the two Bob Gerard Riley entries, #21 Bob himself and #22 Arthur Daunt-Bateman. He did not get to drive in the race but he probably put in some practice laps just in case he was required. As this could have been his first race, what a contrast with today! No piddling about acquiring signatures in clubbies.

In 1939 he raced regularly with either of Bob Gerard's ivory Rileys.

11.03.1939 #16 .. Brooklands, The First March Mountain Handicap - unplaced

10/04/1939 #7 ... Brooklands, The Second Easter Outer Circuit Handicap - 3rd

15/04/1939 Crystal Palace, Stanley Cup meeting, First Short Handicap - 3rd

29/05/1939 # 8 ...Brooklands, The Race for the Locke-King Trophy Hanndicap - 4th
...................# 6 ....Whitsun Outer circuit Handicap - unplaced

24/06/1939 Donington Park, Cambridge UAC. ( As Gerard was there then I am assuming that Max was there too. Unfortunately I do not have a copy of the necessary programme. )

07/08/1939 # 11 Brooklands, The First August Outer Circuit Handicap - unplaced
....................# 6..Brooklands, The Third August Outer Circuit Handicap - unplaced

Then like all young men of his generation, from all over Europe, he had to attend to more serious matters.

John

#122 David McKinney

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 16:24

Thanks John
How does that record qualify him to declaim on Seaman to millions? (He was labelled "racing driver" in the programme, after all)
And, anyway, didn't someone say that R M Turner was usually known as Reg?
Or are you saying that Max Turner must be R M Turner because there's no other candidate?
There is another possibility ;)

#123 humphries

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 18:23

David

I think Reg Turner was R.F.Turner. This Turner raced at Donington and Brooklands many times in his potent little Austin 7 between 1932-1935, and elsewhere. But the Max Turner on the telly did not look 90+, or did he?

Whether anybody ever earns the right to express an opinion on anything is a moot point. In the pubs I frequent everybody expresses an opinion on everything under the sun and would claim the right to do so on TV.

Perhaps "TV" Turner should be ordered to post on the forum of the TNF High Court and explain himself, both as to his racing credentials and his opinions!!

John

#124 David McKinney

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 19:33

'Austin Seven' Turner is one of those drivers whose first name I don't recall ever seeing. To me he's always just been R F. Maybe he was the Reg in question
I have no real quarrel with Max Turner's comments or opinions. Rather with the programme, for presenting him (subliminally perhaps) as a colleague, or at least a contemporary, of Seaman.
By the same taken I have every admiration for Tom Delaney, still racing in his 90s I believe, but equally wondered at his qualifications.
Viewers asked after the programme to name three pre-war British racing drivers could come up with the names of Seaman, Turner and Delaney - possibly not incorrect, but hardly representative either.
We already had Messrs Nye and Nixon as authorities on the period - did we really need Turner and Delaney? What would the producers do if they were making a programme on Naopleon?

#125 2F-001

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Posted 17 January 2004 - 20:50

I'm led to believe that Jonathan, one of the tortoises on St Helena, whom Napolean 'befriended' during his sojourn there, is - or was until quite recently - still alive. Maybe there is an interview in the can somewhere. :)

#126 Adam F

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 00:43

The Turner with connections to Bob Gerard pops up again post-war as his nominated reserve driver at the 1947 Jersey International. The "Black Books" refer to him as Reg Turner.
When I can refer to my copy of the 1947 programme I'll check if it shows his initials.

#127 MichaelJP

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 09:15

Originally posted by David McKinney
'Austin Seven' Turner is one of those drivers whose first name I don't recall ever seeing. To me he's always just been R F. Maybe he was the Reg in question
I have no real quarrel with Max Turner's comments or opinions. Rather with the programme, for presenting him (subliminally perhaps) as a colleague, or at least a contemporary, of Seaman.
By the same taken I have every admiration for Tom Delaney, still racing in his 90s I believe, but equally wondered at his qualifications.
Viewers asked after the programme to name three pre-war British racing drivers could come up with the names of Seaman, Turner and Delaney - possibly not incorrect, but hardly representative either.
We already had Messrs Nye and Nixon as authorities on the period - did we really need Turner and Delaney? What would the producers do if they were making a programme on Naopleon?


Obviously, they would struggle to find contemporaries for a programmer on Napoleon. That's the point though really, even if the likes of Max Turner were far from being on the same level as Dick Seaman, they *were* engaged in racing and around at the time, which is always attractive for a documentary like this.

I was surprised not to see Bill Boddy as he'd recently popped on on the "Speed Machines" programme on pre-war racing, and he was both around at the time and writing about it.

- Michael

#128 humphries

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 12:32

Adam's post about a Reg Turner appearing as a reserve at Jersey in 1947 made me have a re-think.

So I double checked through my old hand-written notes made years ago, which I do not rely on so much nowadays as there has been a vast amount of information unearthed since then. What I re-discovered was that the Austin driver R.F.Turner was not Reg but Rodney! Well, according to my records he was a "Rodders".

That means that Bob Gerard's pal R.M.Turner could have been a Reginald. The name Reg may have been used at Jersey because that was the first name on the entry form that was filled in. Some people, however, do prefer their second " Christian" ( Is that PC now?) name and maybe Reg preferred to be called Max, if this M stands for Maxwell.

As Doug was a co-star with Max he probably knows the truth! And is Doug really Doug? These celebs!

John, .....I think.

#129 Doug Nye

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 14:35

Dear Humph - never heard of the chap until I saw the transmitted programme. However, have just received this response re Max Turner from the Seaman programme producer: "Reg was the more successful and better known elder brother of Max! But whether at Brooklands of Donington Max was always his co-driver. On a few occasions Max also competed on his own at Donington. As I said..Max was small fry as a racer..but he did know everyone."

I'm prompted to think I would not have a driver called 'Rodders' revving my racing car 's engine...

DCN

#130 Darren Galpin

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 14:39

...even if it was a Bollee tricycle?

#131 RTH

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 14:50

Originally posted by Doug Nye


I'm prompted to think I would not have a driver called 'Rodders' revving my racing car 's engine...

DCN


:rotfl:

#132 humphries

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 18:47

Doug

You may be relieved to know that R.F. (Rodney) Turner's 750cc car was red, not yellow. It was also reliable rather than reliant! Mind you, Rodney did break the crankshaft of this car at Donington in 1935.

Seriously, if R.M.Turner was Reg (Adam's Jersey programme is needed!), and the associate of Bob Gerard, and the producer thinks Max is the younger brother of Reg, I think we have a problem.

I have copies of almost all the Donington/ Brooklands programmes. Two Turners sharing and racing a car? No record. Another M.Turner racing on his own. No record. How old is Max?

John

#133 Doug Nye

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 22:04

Certainly old enough to know.... - ...or possibly to know better....

DCN

#134 Adam F

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Posted 20 January 2004 - 01:08

I can now confirm that the 1947 Jersey International programme lists R.M. Turner as Bob Gerard's reserve driver. The programme notes state that he "ran before the war" but do not reveal his christian name.

#135 BRG

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Posted 21 January 2004 - 10:41

Oh dear, now Motorsport News (21 January edition) has made an editorial comment about the programme. Why "oh dear"? Well, although it says much the saem as TNF's consensus - a good enough programme, but that Seaman was never written out of history - it repeats as gospel the apocryphal tale of stripping the paint off the Mercedes to save weight. Now everyone will believe this story because it was on the telly, and from the mouth of a respected motor racing historian!

Time for a letter to MN, Doug? ;)

#136 Doug Nye

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Posted 21 January 2004 - 14:33

Hmm - not entirely convinced yet that the legend is wrong, though I very much suspect it to be - and said so to camera before the editor's scissors (magnet???) got in there... :cool:

Why are you apparently so convinced it's untrue????

DCN

#137 BRG

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Posted 21 January 2004 - 15:28

I thought that the view on TNF was that it was a legend (not least because it was a bit unlikely that the weight of the paint etc would have made enough of a difference to count)? Or at least that the story could not be substantiated. But there are many far more invidious and damaging myths than this one (if so it be) so maybe it can be left to circulate.

I woz onerly konsherned abaht yer repertachion, guv, honest! :cat:

#138 Doug Nye

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Posted 21 January 2004 - 15:30

Thanks mate - apparently rather more concerned than I.... :p

DCN

#139 RTH

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Posted 21 January 2004 - 19:07

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BRG
I thought that the view on TNF was that it was a legend (not least because it was a bit unlikely that the weight of the paint etc would have made enough of a difference to count)?

[/QUOTE)

If you have ever sprayed a car from bare metal to finish, particually in cellulose - which is what they would have used, - with aluminium you need first an etching primer then at least 2 or three coats of primer/filler coats then stopper then 3 or more coats of colour presumably white ? you might if you were Mercedes put on some clear laquer coats as well .

All of this might amount to at least as much as 15 litres of paint + an equal amount of cellulose thinners - well everyone knows what a 5 litre can of domestic gloss paint weighs - so its at least 3 of those - so its a significant amount of weight.

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#140 Paul Taylor

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Posted 21 January 2004 - 22:38

Sorry if this has been mentioned (it probably has, but deserves (another) mentioning! :D )

In this documentary, it said that Dick Seaman won the 1934 Grand Prix de Berne, but they said it was overshadowed by the death of another driver. Well, no, that's wrong, the driver (Hugh Charles Hamilton - whose name wasn't mentioned in the documentary), was in fact killed in the Großer Preis der Schweiz : :rolleyes:

#141 Catalina Park

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Posted 22 January 2004 - 09:31

Originally posted by RTH


If you have ever sprayed a car from bare metal to finish, particually in cellulose - which is what they would have used, - with aluminium you need first an etching primer then at least 2 or three coats of primer/filler coats then stopper then 3 or more coats of colour presumably white ? you might if you were Mercedes put on some clear laquer coats as well .

All of this might amount to at least as much as 15 litres of paint + an equal amount of cellulose thinners - well everyone knows what a 5 litre can of domestic gloss paint weighs - so its at least 3 of those - so its a significant amount of weight.

You have to remember that the paint dries and loses all the moisture and most of the weight.

What we have to do is weigh a piece of aluminum and the paint it and weigh it again! Any takers?

#142 Tim Murray

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 19:38

Originally posted by David McKinney
Meant to ask earlier - who the heck is Max Turner?

Originally posted by Doug Nye
. . . never heard of the chap until I saw the transmitted programme. However, have just received this response re Max Turner from the Seaman programme producer: "Reg was the more successful and better known elder brother of Max! But whether at Brooklands of Donington Max was always his co-driver. On a few occasions Max also competed on his own at Donington. As I said..Max was small fry as a racer..but he did know everyone."


Originally posted by humphries
Seriously, if R.M.Turner was Reg (Adam's Jersey programme is needed!), and the associate of Bob Gerard, and the producer thinks Max is the younger brother of Reg, I think we have a problem.

I have copies of almost all the Donington/ Brooklands programmes. Two Turners sharing and racing a car? No record. Another M.Turner racing on his own. No record. How old is Max?

According to Tom Wheatcroft in Thunder in the Park :

Meanwhile, on March 25th, 2003, two more old-timers, Tom Delaney and Max Turner, had been on hand to help us celebrate the 70th anniversary of the first car races at Donington. . .

. . . Max Turner, three years younger [than Tom] at eighty-nine, had actually taken part in the very first meeting in 1933 as co-driver in his brother's 750cc Austin, coming in 2nd in their race.



#143 Vitesse2

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 20:24

http://forums.autosp...797#post2198797

;)

#144 AlexB

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 18:24

Hi everyone,

After returning from Goodwood I have once again been bitten by the silver arrow bug. I would really like to see the programme 'Nazi Grand Prix' again but do not have a copy. If someone could point me in the direction to find a copy I would be grateful. Or if anyone would run me off a copy I would be over joyed and willing to pay.

Im sorry for bringing up an old thread but thought it better than starting a new one.

Many thanks to anyone that can help,

Alex

#145 seccotine

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 15:09

As I read the posts above, I have the unpleasant sensation that Seaman's attitude towards Germany and his (reluctant) nazi salute are irrelevant informations when it comes to analyzing his career.
Well, for what I know, in those months preceeding the war, when it was clear that Hitler and his pals weren't philanthropists, this young man didn't seem too disgusted by the Nazi regime and he was one of those people claiming their disgust for what England had become. I don't mean he was the equal of Oswald Mosley, or even of Mrs Simpson and her lovely husband, and we don't even know what Seaman whould have done during the war that could have modified our perception of his behaviours, but he clearly made a choice, that he still pays today.
He seems to have been a great driver. As a human being, I feel things are a little more complicated.
Interesting text there :
http://observer.guar...rticle_continue


#146 Gary C

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 19:35

aside ; do we think George Monkhouse was related to entertainer Bob Monkhouse? It's such an unusual name.................

#147 Geoff E

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 22:35

aside ; do we think George Monkhouse was related to entertainer Bob Monkhouse? It's such an unusual name.................


Bob Monkhouse was born in Kent in 1928. His father was born in Westminster in 1894 but his family had moved to Lewisham by 1901. Bob's paternal grandfather was a Jelly Manufacturer born in Cumberland. Great-grandfather was also from Cumberland.

George Monkhouse was born in Hampstead in 1907. His father Charles was born in Dartford in 1881. His paternal grandfather was born in London.

There was thus no close relationship between them.

Around 1920, there were about 15 Monkhouses born each year, suggesting a population of about 1,000 of them.

Edited by Geoff E, 02 August 2009 - 22:36.


#148 Vitesse2

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 23:03

As I read the posts above, I have the unpleasant sensation that Seaman's attitude towards Germany and his (reluctant) nazi salute are irrelevant informations when it comes to analyzing his career.
Well, for what I know, in those months preceeding the war, when it was clear that Hitler and his pals weren't philanthropists, this young man didn't seem too disgusted by the Nazi regime and he was one of those people claiming their disgust for what England had become. I don't mean he was the equal of Oswald Mosley, or even of Mrs Simpson and her lovely husband, and we don't even know what Seaman whould have done during the war that could have modified our perception of his behaviours, but he clearly made a choice, that he still pays today.
He seems to have been a great driver. As a human being, I feel things are a little more complicated.
Interesting text there :
http://observer.guar...rticle_continue

Seccotine: that article - published seven years ago - has been referenced here before, in another thread about that documentary. You should note the fact that the politics of The Observer are pretty much diametrically opposed to the Daily Telegraph, which may give a clue to how skewed the article is ....

http://forums.autosp...showtopic=76407

#149 seccotine

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 10:24

Seccotine: that article - published seven years ago - has been referenced here before, in another thread about that documentary. You should note the fact that the politics of The Observer are pretty much diametrically opposed to the Daily Telegraph, which may give a clue to how skewed the article is ....

http://forums.autosp...showtopic=76407



Are we really talking about "politics"? Isn't that more about the ambiguities in the life of a champion?


#150 Vitesse2

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 10:57

Not politics as such, but The Observer caters for a generally left-of-centre readership and the writer would have pitched his textual emphases with that in mind. He also chose to ignore the fact that The Times - then very much a "newspaper of record" - gave Seaman a fulsome obituary. And as I pointed out, it would be interesting to read what - if anything - the then Manchester Guardian, the leading left-wing quality newspaper, had to say about Dick. Not much, I suspect ....