441 replies to this topic

[MCS]

I travelled to Norwich for a business meeting on Friday – in all honesty something I had very much been looking forward to, quite simply because it afforded me the opportunity of turning off the A11 and having a look at Snetterton, last visited in the late eighties when Philippe Alliott was there to shake down the latest Formula One Lola.

Some fifteen years on though, things have changed somewhat.

Having passed Thetford, I was immediately aware that landmarks and familiar terrain were no more. The A11 has moved! It no longer runs by the old circuit, it’s now a dual carriageway with an elevated roundabout that takes you to the “circuit” or, rather, what’s left of it.

Dear God, what happened?!!!

I was absolutely bewildered by the sheer volume of Snetterton Sunday Market stall frames, containers and other market detritus – basically filling the triangle of what was once the old circuit. The remaining track and its entrance is basically a small, enclosed square with a couple of squiggly bits – i.e. the chicane (which it clearly isn’t anymore) and the so-called “bomb hole.”

I found the whole experience thoroughly depressing.

Snetterton wasn’t my home circuit and thus was never going to be one of my absolute real favourites with all due respect, but I can remember very fondly many a summer afternoon there enjoying excellent motor racing. I have some marvellous memories of great drivers and great cars, but it was difficult to put those memories together with where I was on Friday, difficult to re-imagine the big Sports Cars, the F5000 cars the Formula One cars testing and so on with such a place. Very sad. Very, very sad.

I guess it really lost its true identity in the mid-seventies when MCD – in panic mode with the oil crisis - decided to trim Oulton Park and Snetterton and to limit most Brands meetings to the club circuit. Or was it really – as mooted at the time simply a case of not wanting to pay to resurface Island Bend and Esso at Oulton and the Norfolk Straight at Snetterton? Oulton, of course, rediscovered its former glory and is now – despite its dreadful chicanes – a great track once again. There is a discernible atmosphere there, but Snetterton has lost something – for ever now, I believe.

Upon entering Norwich I was interested to see that it was twinned with Rouen, which certainly made me think of a great old circuit and its atmosphere. The disgraceful, wanton destruction of the buildings and structure at Rouen haven’t – to my mind – taken away the extraordinary atmosphere of that place (I did several “laps” last year), but Snetterton is lost as far as I am concerned now…

Who can remember the fabulous races and meetings that once graced this now (to my mind at least) virtually "defunct' Norfolk track?

Edited by MCS, 20 January 2011 - 22:01.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by MCS
I was absolutely bewildered by the sheer volume of Snetterton Sunday Market stall frames, containers and other market detritus – basically filling the triangle of what was once the old circuit. The remaining track and its entrance is basically a small, enclosed square with a couple of squiggly bits – i.e. the chicane (which it clearly isn’t anymore) and the so-called “bomb hole.”

Has it been modified again? I was there in Oct 2001 destroying a turbo charged single seater, and the bombhole was quite the hole in the road, and the chicane was such that I was going through it more like a WRC hairpin than a standard corner, and you could get all 4 wheels up on the apex kerbing.

Imo for a young driver Norfolk has it all. You have race winning teams at every level. Eurotek Formula Renualt in Hopton, P1(Lotus) Formula 3 in Wymondham, Lotus itself in Hethel, and Super Nova F3000 in Thetford. If AH and David Hunt could sort out their F1 team, you could spend your entire racing career in one county.

[snetterton esses]

I spent 1981 through 1991 standing on the grass bank at the esses. Tons of happy memories, including the frozen soggy clothes and wet sandwiches.
I never saw the "long ciruit used" but i definitely agree that the circuit was not helped one bit by the chicane below the pits. I remember the first F-3 meeting after the chicane went in, one driver wondered if he could get pit service there as well since they wee so slow.
Prior to the chicane that was a good area to watch at Russell. If i had the wife and daughter along, i would go there for the playground and toilets were quite convenient there. From the esses it was a hike to the loo, in either direction.
Snetterton then was fun to visit. The address system worked well, the races ran off quickly (unless the bombhole flooded ), spectators liked it. A lot of drivers bemoaned it as two dragstrips with 2 loops, coram on a negative camber to boot! I saw many an up and coming star get pulled back to the pits with a wrinkled car from those two straights. i can vividly recall Hakkinan's F3 car on a flatbed.
The market was where everyone went after practice. A young Mr. Da Silva and I would both enjoy fruit from the same stand. The paddock area was wide open. The teams didn't appreciate the lack of facilities, but as a fan i loved walking around the open paddock area.
After i left in 91, i noticed in stories that the circuit was lighted for the Willhire 24 hr. and even the BTCC ran a night race. Now i'm sorry to hear that the circuit is on the decline. It was a very popular for testing in those years. Snetterton played to all the heavy hitters, only on Tuesday mornings. I always kept in the back of my mind that those testing sessions were probably Snetterton's key role in the sport, and probably it's financial bread and butter.
It was a simple airfield circuit, right next to the A11. Silverstone was just an airfield circuit in the beginning.

[RTH]

Flat out down the Norwich straight in 1972 in a field of 48 Mini 7 850's.

[RTH]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld




Imo for a young driver Norfolk has it all. You have race winning teams at every level. Eurotek Formula Renualt in Hopton, P1(Lotus) Formula 3 in Wymondham, Lotus itself in Hethel, and Super Nova F3000 in Thetford. If AH and David Hunt could sort out their F1 team, you could spend your entire racing career in one county.

You even have Alan Partridge on Radio Norfolk !

[Andrew Fellowes]

the disgraceful, wanton destruction of the buildings and structure at Rouen haven’t – to my mind – taken away the extraordinary atmosphere of that place (I did several “laps” last year), but Snetterton is lost as far as I am concerned now…

Perhaps Snetterton never really had it in the first place?

Happy memories? Here are 2.

Being an old fart I can boast watching Moss & Clark etc there in ’62, and a feeling that it was remarkable to get the F1’s (except Ferrari) to Norfolk, and I have one memory that rates high on my all time greatest moments list.

Standing in the pits, feeling very unsafe watching Foulston in his M8 McLaren coming onto the pit straight. That car lurched across the track under fierce acceleration, at such speed that had he lost it ........ Terrifying but very compelling to watch.

[David Beard]

Some happier memories here perhaps.... taken in the late 50s early 60s (?). From the collection of L. J. Braithwaite, a friend of Keith Finney, who I think might be the driver of Cooper 111.



and another..

[MCS]

Marvellous stuff David!

Can't believe we're not getting more stuff here, but whatever..

Keep seeing your Northern TNF meetings being posted (hope to attend at some point).

I live in the south, but every time the "Laleham Lot" get together I'm somewhere else!

See you soon hopefully!!

MCS

[David Beard]

Originally posted by MCS
Marvellous stuff David!

Can't believe we're not getting more stuff here, but whatever..

Keep seeing your Northern TNF meetings being posted (hope to attend at some point).

I live in the south, but every time the "Laleham Lot" get together I'm somewhere else!

See you soon hopefully!!

MCS

Such appreciation means I can't resist posting another from the L.J.Braithwaite collection I am pleased to have on loan just now.....

Keith Finney's Cooper...ex Lance Reventlow I understand...

[Andrew Kitson]

Marvellous pictures!
We have discussed Snetterton and its demise many times over on 10/10ths.
http://www.ten-tenth...ght=john woolfe
Since Jonathan Palmer has taken over at least he seems to appreciate the history. At the reception to the Snetterton circuit office by the start line is a wonderful photograph he has put up, enlarged to about 6 feet across showing the grid to the 1962 Lombank Trophy F1 race with Moss, Clark, Hill & Surtees on the front row.

[Mallory Dan]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


Has it been modified again? I was there in Oct 2001 destroying a turbo charged single seater, and the bombhole was quite the hole in the road, and the chicane was such that I was going through it more like a WRC hairpin than a standard corner, and you could get all 4 wheels up on the apex kerbing.

Imo for a young driver Norfolk has it all. You have race winning teams at every level. Eurotek Formula Renualt in Hopton, P1(Lotus) Formula 3 in Wymondham, Lotus itself in Hethel, and Super Nova F3000 in Thetford. If AH and David Hunt could sort out their F1 team, you could spend your entire racing career in one county.

Thnigs don't look great for the mighty Canaries though do they ?

[LB]

I really wish I took my Camera to Ross' little foray with turbo charged single seaters.

That is the only time I have been to Snetterton so can't really comment about changes except to tell Ross that it hasn't changed again.

[Twin Window]

Like the old Silverstone pit lane, Snett was good for pics from the raised walkway...

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by LB
I really wish I took my Camera to Ross' little foray with turbo charged single seaters.

That is the only time I have been to Snetterton so can't really comment about changes except to tell Ross that it hasn't changed again.

Delight ye in the stupidity that is my driving career...

[RTH]

Going through the 'Bombhole'

in the Willhire 24hrs of Snetterton

in 1984

[BRG]

I think MCS's fears for Snetterton are a bit overstated. It may not host any major international meetings these days, but that is the way that the sport has developed. But Snetterton remains a very active club racing and testing track. And its continued existence is probably thanks in part to the Sunday market and the revenue it provides. I only visit occassionally, but there always seems to be something new at the circuit each time I go. Very far from 'virtually defunct' IMO.

[Andrew Kitson]

If we could at least have the old Russell back ( the 1967 - 1990 version), the place would be much better. Most drivers who raced on the old layout loved the old Russell - a deep breath every time before turn in. I remember watching Irvine testing his F3000 car there in '89 - awesome through Russell with barely a lift!

There is plenty of space on the infield at Snett to create the modern run-off required for this once great fast kink. Just move the assembly area to the other end of the pitlane by parc ferme - that would do it. While they are at it, build some pits with a 'spectator roof' we could spectate from as before.

I believe the land that the market occupies was sold off a while back. Therefore MSV receive no revenue from it. Recent work that has been undertaken and going on is the building of an earth spectator bank the length of the (new) Revett straight ( on the market side) and the re-grassing of the car park beyond. New fencing has already been put up to seperate the circuit / market areas.

The only tarmac still remaining from the old circuit is a short section through the old 'sear', the second half of the Norwich straight through the hairpin and halfway down the old home straight. This is where the market is.

There is also a new spectator bank between Russell and the pits within the paddock, for team personnel to spectate from. A good track for the weekend club racer and trackday driver but a shadow of what it once was and abysmal for the spectator when it rains! No cover and no grandstands. There were three covered and one open stand on the old layout.

[RTH]

The pre '75 layout with the Norwich straight and the home straight was wonderful, if this superb layout could not be restored, I really wish the circuit could be lengthened to 3 miles plus, with some more long straights ending in hairpins, it used to be just the best fun to drive, - best in the country, even better than the unmolested Silverstone GP circuit of the early seventies.

[Keir]

I won a GPL race at Snett in my Cooper and have also designed a neat and truly 67ish program cover.

Snett and GPL rock!!

[MCS]

Quote - Andrew Kitson: "a shadow of what it once was"


BRG,

Andrew is probably nearer the mark. When I said "virtually defunct" it was just after I had seen how much it had changed...still makes me very upset though

MCS

[Andrew Kitson]

Here is the picture that now adorns the wall of the Snetterton venue office/reception.
It is the grid for the 1962 Lombank Trophy F1 race. No idea who took it but a terrific photograph.
It looks splendid enlarged to about 6 feet across at Snett.



The grid as follows:

Moss
Clark
G.Hill
Surtees

Gregory
Ireland
Taylor

Bonnier
Parnell
Greene
Salvadori

Shelly
Siedel
Eden

Ashmore

[SEdward]

Are the Norwich Straight and the Home Straight still there? And if so, in what state? And what was the hairpin between them called?

I never saw a race on the old, full circuit and I've always regretted it.

Mind you, I always liked Snetters because it had such a homely and clubby atmosphere.

Edward.

[SEdward]

Brilliant photo. That must have been one of Moss' very last races.

Edward

[Andrew Kitson]

This race was Saturday April 14th '62. I believe Moss' accident was on Easter Monday 9 days later.

[MCS]

Originally posted by SEdward
Are the Norwich Straight and the Home Straight still there? And if so, in what state? And what was the hairpin between them called?

I never saw a race on the old, full circuit and I've always regretted it.

Mind you, I always liked Snetters because it had such a homely and clubby atmosphere.

Edward.

From what I recall from my wanderings earlier in the year a little remains of the Norwich Straight, the hairpin has all but disappeared - although you can guess where it was - and the Home Straight is in evidence, but years and years of the market seem to have taken their toll. The hairpin was called "The Hairpin" as I recall...

MCS

[Andrew Kitson]

I've got to pass there tomorrow. If I have time, I will stop and take some shots of the area around the market where some of the old track can be seen.

[MCS]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
I've got to pass there tomorrow. If I have time, I will stop and take some shots of the area around the market where some of the old track can be seen.

Thanks Andrew, that would be most interesting.

MCS

[RTH]

I think it was a huge mistake to reduce the circuit in the first place.

[Andrew Kitson]

Following the thread of some happy Snetterton memories and interest in the old layout, I stopped by to take some photos of the hairpin area and huge new market complex. As can be seen in the following photos, the old circuit is gone and there will be little chance of it ever being re-instated.
The new A11 dual carriageway, slip roads, roundabouts etc are built on the site of the hairpin.
Trying to be a clever dick here with this map I sketched out. Hope it is clear enough!

[Andrew Kitson]

Looking back down the remains of the Norwich straight towards Sear. Taken from the edge of the new slip road behind the derelict petrol station.

[Andrew Kitson]

The old petrol station taken from the old circuit side. Beyond is the A11.
Hard now to imagine the F5000s thundering past here.

[Andrew Kitson]

The scale of the market can be seen here, all on the infield of the old hairpin.
The dark area of tarmac in the foreground is part of the old Home Straight.

[Andrew Kitson]

Taken from the slip road on the embankment up to the new flyover.
The runway that formed the Home Straight can be seen. The remains of this straight can be seen to the right between the containers. The fence down the middle of the picture was where the spectator bank once stood. The new circuit entrance road can be seen to the left, the market access road in the middle.
In the distance to the left is the 8th airforce memorial by the circuit pay booths, with the advertising billboards at Coram beyond. The old Esses car park for the larger meetings was in the field to the left.

[Andrew Kitson]

The wonderful memorial to the 8th airforce 96th bomb group, showing a B-17 with vapour trails. Snetterton Heath saw the loss of over 900 airmen and 250 aircraft in the war. This stainless steel memorial was designed by a local school teacher and constructed locally. It is located near to the site of the old vehicle bridge at the Esses.

[Andrew Kitson]

The new fly-over over the A11. To the left out of shot is the old hangar and the small industrial estate where Van Diemen racing cars are built.
Note the light area of grass in the foreground. This is where the hairpin was dug up.
The only remains of the circuit would appear to be the abandoned vendors kiosk!
Note too the small brick hut infront of the fly-over - more of this in the next shot!

[Andrew Kitson]

The same small hut can be seen in this 1965 photo of Jack Sears in the Willment Cobra.
Next to this hut was the crossroads at the A11.
Sad now looking at this once great corner like this.

[Andrew Kitson]

I took some shots yesterday and have posted them here in this new thread:
http://forums.atlasf...&threadid=73588

[RTH]

Lovely piece of work Andrew , superb and most informative sketch (actually sketch is'nt a good enough term) and fascinating set of photographs.

Really most of this work has only happened in the last few years, prior to that it would actually have been possible to drive round the old circuit .

Now , clearly the new road network and buildings (reminds you a bit of what has happened at Brooklands) its all far too late .

I remember reading about 10 years ago, when plans had been drawn up to build a whole new town on the Snetterton site (Thankfully it all came to nothing) that the area owned by the circuit was about 500 acres so this must include a lot of presently farmed arable land.

I wonder if there is a possibility of extending the circuit length out again to 3 miles plus , with 2 more long straights and a hair pin to recreate the glory days - and make a track we could run a British 'Le Mans' 24hr sportscar race on ? I have very fond memories of the place in the 70's & 80's.

[SEdward]

Andrew,

Great work, sad news.

Edward.

[MCS]

Thanks Andrew. Your map is very useful and it at least confirms that my wanderings in January were thorough and I didn't miss anything.

The location of the new roundabout at the hairpin threw me a bit and I'm curious as to whether it was still under construction in January as I recall a number of JCBs and a fair amount of eearth still being moved - to the degree where there was a distinct mound where I expected the hairpin to be.

As I say, thanks again. Very sad though.

Mark

[Andrew Kitson]

Some photos here taken by Steve Bradley back in the 60s.

Prophet spins his Elva at the hairpin in the 1964 3 hour race.
Note the petrol station in the background with the A11 road running parallel to the Norwich Straight behind the hedge.


Bill Morris in his ERA also in '64.


Another Elva spinner. Paul loses it at Riches 1963.


The Minis of Hopkirk and Banks exit the Esses ( now known as 'Bombhole') 1965.


Same place also in '65, Bradley waves through Clark and Hill. In the background, another car can be seen turning into the Esses leaving the home straight, before the vehicle bailey bridge was built.


Coundley leads Amon at Russell in the 1966 Archie Scott-Brown trophy race.


Things often went wrong at Russell with the earth banks close to the track.
Blake's Anglia with Faller's Mini bank climbing. 1965.

[RTH]

The original layout was a great circuit, certainly from a drivers point of view. Now it's most definitely not.

We really do need some good news on the UK scene in 2005 .

[David Beard]

I believe this to be Snetterton circa 1960 . I know it's Keith Finney in the Lotus 16, but the race number doesn't match any events I know of. I would be interested if anyone can identify the Lola and Lotus 18 drivers.


Photo copyright L.J.Braithwaite.

[llmaurice]

My memories of "good old Snetterton" are - the first Snetterton 100 , the old cafe with permanently steamed up windows and the entire back wall covered in tea towels from "all over " , proper tea and coffee , and the old bar with built in cigarette fog . Most importantly car testing under the gaze of Brian Feltham for about £45 per day.
Motorsportvision MUST have drastically improved it if the prices are to be believed .
£200 per day for 6 sessions and £65 to be able to work under cover !
For all that we have CCTV (so far less marshals on station) oh , and NEW toilet blocks.
Bikes get off a "whole" lot lighter at ONLY £100 per day ! There's progress !

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by David Beard
I believe this to be Snetterton circa 1960 . I know it's Keith Finney in the Lotus 16, but the race number doesn't match any events I know of. I would be interested if anyone can identify the Lola and Lotus 18 drivers.
[/SIZE]

The mixture suggests it was a libre race - so Black Books would be no help
I think Finney only raced the car for the first half of 1960?
The Lola driver looks very much like Peter Ashdown - IIRC he always wore a dark peak and visor

[RTH]

Originally posted by llmaurice
My memories of "good old Snetterton" are ............. proper tea and coffee , and the old bar with built in cigarette fog . Most importantly car testing under the gaze of Brian Feltham for about £45 per day.
Motorsportvision MUST have drastically improved it if the prices are to be believed .
£200 per day for 6 sessions and £65 to be able to work under cover !
For all that we have CCTV (so far less marshals on station) oh , and NEW toilet blocks.
Bikes get off a "whole" lot lighter at ONLY £100 per day ! There's progress !

Clearly they don't want customers !

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by David McKinney

The mixture suggests it was a libre race - so Black Books would be no help
I think Finney only raced the car for the first half of 1960?
The Lola driver looks very much like Peter Ashdown - IIRC he always wore a dark peak and visor

Would Ashdown be driving in such a race in 1960? I think he was concentrating on Formula Junior.

[David McKinney]

Touché
I was confusing my 1959s with my 1960s

[Ted Walker]

The lotus 18 could be Bill Moss

[David Beard]

Originally posted by David McKinney

The mixture suggests it was a libre race - so Black Books would be no help
I think Finney only raced the car for the first half of 1960?
The Lola driver looks very much like Peter Ashdown - IIRC he always wore a dark peak and visor

I have Finney down as racing in F2 races at Snetterton
17-Sep-60
07-May-60
06-Aug-60
17-Sep-60
(I think from Black Book borrowed from Roger.)

I remember Ashdown being very modern on the helmet front. In fact I thought he was one of the first British drivers to wear one of the Bell "jet style" (I think they got called then) helmets. The one in this Lola looks more old fashioned...I don't think it's him. Would he have been in an unpainted car, anyway?

Ted, is that Bill Moss as in ERA?