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Case history: Lotus 19 Monte Carlo


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#501 Ol'_Motorhead

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 04:05

Originally posted by Ol'_Motorhead


'Tis so! :rolleyes:

... .The engine displacement is listed as 4996 (5 litres). I'm no Chevy expert but wasn't the Corvette base engine a 327 back in the day? ... .


Ya, no kidding! :lol: I get to answer my own question :stoned: I forgot about the 283 (the memory fades) - must have been bored and/or stroked. I don't think Corvette made their own blocks a la Pontiac.
Cheers.

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#502 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 06:25

Competition Press, October 24, 1970

"Lotus 19, Grade 8, aeroquip, zero time new engine, girling discs, very low maintenance cost, light, competitive. Some spares. Race ready. C. Abrams, 7540 High Ave., LaJolla, Calif. 92037; (714) 454-6272."

I found current contact info for a Clem Abrams in La Jolla (near Torrey Pines, Del Mar, San Diego, etc.), presumably the same Clem Abrams who didn't qualify for the '68 Riverside Can Am in a Lotus 30.

David, do you want this one too?

Vince H.

#503 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 07:25

Competition Press, November 7, 1970

"Abrams' Lotus 19 Tops Iribe's Camaro in Tijuana, Mexico

...Tijuana, Mex., Oct. 18 - Clem Abrams piloted his Lotus-Ford 19 to a win in the big-bore race at the Tijuana Auto Sport Club's Fall races here today. Abrams, who had suspension problems in practice and got in only three laps on a course he had never seen before, started at the back of the field and moved into the lead on the sixth lap. Tijuana's pride, Carlos Iribe, took the immediate lead from the pole in his TransAm Camaro, but the acceleration of the Lotus was too much. After Abrams took the lead, Iribe continue to charge until his clutch played up, and he dropped back to finish 15 seconds in arrears..."

Vince H.

#504 scags

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 14:16

Originally posted by Ol'_Motorhead


Ya, no kidding! :lol: I get to answer my own question :stoned: I forgot about the 283 (the memory fades) - must have been bored and/or stroked. I don't think Corvette made their own blocks a la Pontiac.
Cheers.

By 1967 Chevy had the 302 motor for Trans -Am racing, and the Z-28 Camaro.

#505 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 14:44

Ol'_Motorhead:

Thanks for that note on the spelling of Larry's last name. I'd thought that it was Reilly. Close, at least... :) Forty years will cloud the memory a tadge. As for Larry, I have no idea what became of him. The year of our photos, 1965, I do recall that I saw a Mosport programme for an event that year that showed a photo from 1964 of Larry's crashed front-engined sports racer. I was an eye witness to his prang down in T1. iirc, he got a cut lip from it.

As for the displacement of the Chevy mill, I have no idea what it was but I think that the lineage of this particular car has been pinned down as an ex-Dave Greenblatt car with Corvette power. Again, I have no idea what particular engine from a 'vette may have been installed but I do recall one thing about most vividly...it was fitted with six 2-bbl carbs! This induction configuration was not unknown back in those days but I don't recall whether it was available as a factory option...Corvette or otherwise...or whether it was strictly an after-market tuner's kit.

#506 Alan Cox

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 18:30

Originally posted by sharman
Does the name John Kennerly ring a bell?


I do recall him as being one of a bunch of people, including John Scott-Davies and Jim Charnock who were very active in the Aintree/Oulton Park region in the mid to late-sixties. IIRC Kennerley had a Mustang at one time.

#507 Mark Campbell

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 18:40

Originally posted by raceannouncer2003
From Competition Press, Feb. 25, 1967

"Lotus 19 (Original) - 2.5-liter Climax engine, 5-speed gearbox. Car brought from England by Moss to win Canadian Grand Prix. In excellent condition, completely rebuilt, including many extras. Best offer over $9800. Tom Spencer, 200 Queen Mary dr., #103, Oakville, Ontario, Canada; (416) 845-8584."

But Moss didn't win the Canadian Grand Prix, he won the Player's 200, right? Would this be 953?

Vince H.


Well it would seem that Spencer's advert in the CP 1967 had the CDN GP correct but not the reference to Moss. Bob Harrington on the CMSHG Forum contacted Jack Boxstrom the owner for many years of the Peter Ryan car (959) who passed on the following clarification,

Bob,
 
The ex-Ryan rolling chassis I bought from Spencer was MK 19-959  - not the Prototype. By the time I got it (in the 1970's) the powertrain was missing. I found the engine with Harry Woodford and bought it for the rebuild invoice that Spencer owed! The original "Queerbox" (transaxle) I bought from Jack Wheeler @ Autosport, this re-uniting these parts with the car . . . . . .
 
Best regards,
 
Jack

#508 cstlhn

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 03:31

Can anyone help identify this photo of what I believe is a Lotus 19? I believe it was taken in the Bahamas by Roland Rose?

Posted Image

Cheers, David

#509 Mark Campbell

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 04:04

Originally posted by cstlhn
Can anyone help identify this photo of what I believe is a Lotus 19? I believe it was taken in the Bahamas by Roland Rose?

Posted Image

Cheers, David


From the picture it looks to be Chassis 963 first delivered to Harry Olds and Bob Colombosian (62) and subsequently as shown on post218 driven by Norm Namerow (63-64). Someone can confirm, but I am pretty sure this is Namerow from the pic as he was a DNF at Nassau in 64. Great photo!

.

#510 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 06:10

David and Mark

I think it might be Lloyd Ruby in 954 in 1962 at Nassau. He set fastest lap, but:

"...he had to come in on lap 8 to have the crew tear away a big hunk of right-front fender. A tree won..." (December 22, 1962, Competition Press).

Vince H.

#511 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 10:53

Isn't it great?

Someone digs into the right report and the truth becomes clear...

#512 cstlhn

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 13:27

I don't know if this one will be of any assistance? It is from the same photographer but the labeling leads me to believe it was part of a Press kit for the race.

David

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#513 Michael Oliver

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 14:19

Originally posted by cstlhn
I don't know if this one will be of any assistance? It is from the same photographer but the labeling leads me to believe it was part of a Press kit for the race.

David

Posted Image


Great shot! Nassau 1961, l to r: Stirling Moss, Team Rosebud Lotus 19 #952; Jack Nethercutt, Lotus 19 #955; Dan Gurney, Arciero Bros Lotus 19 #951. I feel sure someone with an interest in Ferraris will be able to complete the rest...

Not really my area of expertise but I think Colotti boxes on the Rosebud and Arciero cars, whereas Nethercutt still has the original Lotus Queerbox, casing of which is just visible, plus when converted to Colotti the cars had to abandon the aluminium upswept cowling at the back of the car.

#514 Terry O'Neil

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 14:26

The picture of the Le Mans start was taken at Nassau in 1961.
#4 is Moss, #102 is Nethercutt. I think the next car in line would be #27 Schechter.
The picture of #9 was taken in 1962, driver Lloyd Ruby, dnf Lap 49.
Terry

#515 Terry O'Neil

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 14:31

Instant retake !!
The third car in line is #1, driven by Dan Gurney.
Terry

#516 Steve O'Brien

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 14:34

Quick question did all "19"s have the gear lever on the right as Im sure the 19 my dad (Harry O'Brien) owned (953) was a right hand gear change

Steve O'Brien

#517 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 17:41

Not knowing the slightest about this race let alone it's result, let me guess...

Sir Stirling retired with overheating, right?

:)

#518 Terry O'Neil

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 19:07

Manfred, this time you have guessed incorrectly. Moss retired the car with a broken rear wishbone on lap 27 of the Nassau Trophy race.
Terry

#519 Michael Oliver

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 21:59

Originally posted by Steve O'Brien
Quick question did all "19"s have the gear lever on the right as Im sure the 19 my dad (Harry O'Brien) owned (953) was a right hand gear change

Steve O'Brien


No, the original set-up was in the centre of the car, when they had a Queerbox. I *believe* that when the cars were converted to Colotti boxes (which would have included 953 during its ownership by UDT-Laystall) they went to right-hand shifting. Similarly, a lot of the V8-engined US and Canadian cars had a right-hand shift, I guess reflecting the boxes they used...

This is, incidentally, another indication that 950 was the car which stayed in the UK in 1961 and was sold to Matich, as Moss is reported as using a Colotti box in the North American races that year, IIRC, and the Colotti box is clearly visible on 952 in the Dec 1961 Nassau shots. If you look at John Ellacott's photos of the Matich car in early 1962, it still has the Queerbox and the centre shift.

Steve - have you checked your PMs?

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#520 cstlhn

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 23:50

The Ferrari is a TRI61 probably #0794 which was driven by Pedro Rodriguez. Thanks for the info on the other photos!

Grazie, David

#521 Steve O'Brien

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 05:06

Originally posted by Michael Oliver


Steve - have you checked your PMs?


I have not had any

Steve.

#522 Terry O'Neil

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 08:56

Hi David
The Ferrari in the picture is #7, a Ferrari Dino 246S, # 0784 driven by Ricardo Rodriguez. It was Pedro who drove the Ferrari 250 TRI/61 #0794 but used race number 2.
Terry

#523 m.tanney

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 22:17

Originally posted by Mark Campbell

The CMSHGroup here in Canada knocked it around today and also confirm that Comstock was only a sponsor for Ryan. However, Autosport Limited, the Lotus importer in Canada may have had an interest in the car as they were listed as the entrant for Ryan at the Players 200, Mosport 61. A few of the guys are trying to confirm this.


  It was generally assumed that Peter Ryan owned chassis 959. But then we're looking for more than just assumptions here, aren't we? Ryan, like Revson in later years, was often though to have been sitting on a big pile of money. In fact, his early season efforts in 1961 were run on a very tight budget. Ryan's car was entered in the 1961 Players 200 race by Autosport Ltd. It may have also entered him in the early Canadian races like St. Eugene (July 9). That raised the possibility that Autosport actually owned the car, rather than Ryan himself. I passed the question on to John R. Wright, a great Canadian racing historian. John wrote to Carl Moore, the present owner of chassis 959 (he bought it from Jack Boxtrom). Mr. Moore replied that, "I have copies of the bill of sale from the Lotus factory to Peter Ryan". So that settles that - verified in writing. As for Autosport Ltd. entering Ryan's car in the early races - sometimes what seems like a significant detail really isn't.

  I don't think anyone really knew what sort of arrangement Peter Ryan had with Comstock - whether it bought the car when he entered the team or merely sponsored it. The answer popped up on the Canadian Motorsport History Group this morning. Ted Smith, a researcher in the Canadian Motorsport Hall of Fame's archive posted a question about a short-lived Canadian periodical called Motor News Week. As an aside, he mentioned that, "....front page story in issue 24 is the announcement that R.M.Hollingshead Company had just purchased the Lotus 19 from Peter Ryan for Bradley to drive as #25 in 1962. It notes that Ryan wanted the car kept in Canada". Hollingshead ran the car as "Miss Whizz". So it seems that Ryan maintained ownership of the Lotus when he brought it into the Comstock team - which happened sometime between his victory at St. Eugene and his win at Mosport on August 19, when the car was painted in Comstock colours.

No surprises here, but now it's all backed up with documentation.

Mike

#524 Allen Brown

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 22:52

Well done Ted. He really is one of the Archives' stars.

#525 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 05:08

Mike

Further on the Peter Ryan Lotus 19...from Competition Press, November 25, 1961:

"Lotus Nineteen Monte Carlo, 2.5 Coventry Climax engine, only two races. Lotus transmission perfect shape. New paint, spare gears, wheels, tires and gas tank. A definite winner. Peter B. Ryan, Mont Tremblant, P.Q. Canada. Tel: St. Jovite 425-2711 day, 425-2450 night."

Vince H.

#526 Steve O'Brien

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 05:22

Morning all I have just been looking at an old race programme from 22/4/1961 at Aintree there are three 19's entered from UDT #93 Stirling Moss, #94 Henery Taylor #95 Cliff Allison while Taylor and Allison are using Climax engine's Moss is entered using a Masarati engine

#527 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 14:55

Over at the CMSHG, Denis Coad's name has come up recently so I thought I'd pop in here to post the images I mentioned previously in post # 440.

Just to confirm, the chap with the sleek dome is Denny. He saw me lining up the shot with my goofy little Kodak and took the time to look straight into the lens. :) He'd just won the 1963 Canadian Drivers' Championship with a good finish in the GP at Mosport.

Posted Image

Posted Image

I don't know who the fellow is in the 'Whiz' uniform but is for sure one of Denny's crew. From the hair of this chap, he looks suspiciously like he might be the same fellow appearing in the Peter Ryan ad that David Birchall threw up in post # 451. I wonder...

#528 oldtransamdriver

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Posted 29 January 2007 - 09:02

The guy to the right of Denny looks very much like Jack Jacynski who was a well known race mechanic at that time. He was also Frank Bradley's mechanic? Jack would later open a Datsun dealership and then a busy Honda dealership, if I remember correctly, on Ellesmere Ave. Scarborough?

I worked as a sales rep for him in 78/79 selling the Honda Civics - at one time there were over 300 back orders - couldn't get the product.

Robert Barg

#529 bradbury west

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 12:23

In view of the interest in, and knowledge of, the Lotus 19, as shown on this thread, some of you may be interested in this shot of ACBC testing the prototype. One from the archives, for the archives.

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

Roger Lund.

#530 Mark Campbell

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 14:37

Originally posted by bradbury west
In view of the interest in, and knowledge of, the Lotus 19, as shown on this thread, some of you may be interested in this shot of ACBC testing the prototype. One from the archives, for the archives.

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

Roger Lund.


Wonderful picture courtesy of ebay and a nice addition to the thread. I have placed a bid and will share it with the Forum members if successful. Good catch Roger. All the best.

#531 RA Historian

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 15:05

Originally posted by David McKinney
957
1961 Tom Carstens USA fitted Buick engine
1962-65 raced by Jerry Grant, with Chevy engine from 1964
1966 Jerry Hansen
1967-68 Dick Kantrud
1983 remains allegedly with amusement park musician
1985 Terry Buffum, California
1996 John Buddenbaum entered Laguna Seca (Buick engine) but Buffum for sale 10/10
1998 Fantasy Junction for sale Jan
2000 David Smith raced Laguna Seca

Add one more owner. From mid 1968 at least into 1969 the car was owned and raced by Minnesota driver Bob (?) Figenskau. He bought it from Kantrud when Kantrud bought one of Jerry Hansen's Lola T-70s. To whom it went from Figenskau I do not know.

#532 David McKinney

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 18:44

Thanks RA :up:

#533 jpgp79

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 13:41

Hi,

I have been reading with great amount of interest this thread, and it seems to me that a detail has never been brought to our attention about chassis 950.

I compiled all my documentation on the subject and found that in Nassau (december 1961), the car entered for Stirling Moss was allegedly chassis 950 (source : “the Bahamas Speed Weeks” by Terry O’Neil), but was entered by Team Rosebud, not UDT Laystall. :

In addition to this, a photo of the car published in march 1962 Sports Car Graphic reporting on the Bahamas Speed Week clearly shows the Rosebud colors and the side oil/water pipes typical from 950. (See picture – Copyright to SCG)

This might lead to think that Rosebud actually kept 19/950 and ran it through 1962, its first race being the Daytona 3 hours in February with Pedro Rodriguez. It seems that the car still had its side oil pipes for this race (which I am not sure of, but I do have a picture of the Rosebud car taken at Laguna Seca in august 62 which clearly shows the side pipes, open rear wheel arches, knock-off wire wheels, all of these being attributes of the 19/950 Nassau car).

To make things even worse, the Rosebud car has been entered in december 1962 in the Nassau Speed Week as… chassis 952 ! It then had lost its side pipes.

So what :confused: ?

Posted Image

#534 bradbury west

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 12:10

I have not re-read all the posts so this may have been covered, but it links to some of the much earlier, first page posts. Looking through some period practice/race sheets and programmes, plus MS Oct 64 for other things these emerged.

MS. John Coundley Racing Partnership , with Bill de Selincourt. p833, ran a 19 through the season. Mrs Pat Coundley won her class at the Brighton Speed Trials that year, page 800, in 19 with 2.75 Climax.

Senior Service ,Scott Brown trophy at Snetterton July 14 63 Ireland retd car 60, 2.5ltr 19, with suspension trouble at Esses, but with F/L.
Coundley was also there in 19 , mk11, it says, 2nd in class to the legendary Richard Wrottesley.

Maggs as RAP says was at Brands 5.8.63 in 2.5ltr car, and so was Coundley/de Selincourt in 2.75 ltr car

Brands 6.10.63 Pendleton in Lotus Climax in over 1200cc class in Guards Trophy, 3rd in class after 3rd in practice.

Oulton 11.4.64 JC in Pitt's car, also practised by Pitt, but practice sheets also show Coundley in Lotus Climax, no other details listed for it, 4th and 7th in 2 practice sessions

Race info sheet shows Coundley retired on 3rd lap with loss of oil pressure, but in 3rd place acording to lap sheets.
There was a Guards race at Snetterton the next day so he may have been entered there, but no details to hand.

hope it helps

Roger Lund

#535 Michael Oliver

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 15:32

Originally posted by jpgp79
Hi,

I have been reading with great amount of interest this thread, and it seems to me that a detail has never been brought to our attention about chassis 950.

I compiled all my documentation on the subject and found that in Nassau (december 1961), the car entered for Stirling Moss was allegedly chassis 950 (source : “the Bahamas Speed Weeks” by Terry O’Neil), but was entered by Team Rosebud, not UDT Laystall. :

In addition to this, a photo of the car published in march 1962 Sports Car Graphic reporting on the Bahamas Speed Week clearly shows the Rosebud colors and the side oil/water pipes typical from 950. (See picture – Copyright to SCG)

This might lead to think that Rosebud actually kept 19/950 and ran it through 1962, its first race being the Daytona 3 hours in February with Pedro Rodriguez. It seems that the car still had its side oil pipes for this race (which I am not sure of, but I do have a picture of the Rosebud car taken at Laguna Seca in august 62 which clearly shows the side pipes, open rear wheel arches, knock-off wire wheels, all of these being attributes of the 19/950 Nassau car).

To make things even worse, the Rosebud car has been entered in december 1962 in the Nassau Speed Week as… chassis 952 ! It then had lost its side pipes.

So what :confused: ?


http://img144.images...aumosjv7.th.jpg

Hi there

Just to confuse the issue, both 950 and 952 had side pipes, certainly as you point out the Rosebud car (952) had them as late as mid-1962.

I don't believe that it is correct that 950 was entered by Team Rosebud at Nassau in 1961, as I do not think from my research so far that 950 was in North America in the summer of 1961. Rosebud bought the car from UDT Laystall between the final Fall pro races in the US and the Nassau Speed Week.

The two UDT cars present in NA during summer 1961 were 952 and 953 (a car identifiable at that stage because it did not have the side pipes).

It is my understanding that 950 remained in the UK with UDT and was raced once (in August) by Henry Taylor, prior to being sold to Frank Matich, who had it by early Jan 1962.

Given shipping times from the UK to Australia, it is therefore unlikely that this was the car entered by Rosebud at Nassau in December, which I feel would have been 952 (as it had the pipes).

HTH!

Michael Oliver

#536 Michael Oliver

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 15:34

Originally posted by bradbury west
I have not re-read all the posts so this may have been covered, but it links to some of the much earlier, first page posts. Looking through some period practice/race sheets and programmes, plus MS Oct 64 for other things these emerged.

MS. John Coundley Racing Partnership , with Bill de Selincourt. p833, ran a 19 through the season. Mrs Pat Coundley won her class at the Brighton Speed Trials that year, page 800, in 19 with 2.75 Climax.

Senior Service ,Scott Brown trophy at Snetterton July 14 63 Ireland retd car 60, 2.5ltr 19, with suspension trouble at Esses, but with F/L.
Coundley was also there in 19 , mk11, it says, 2nd in class to the legendary Richard Wrottesley.

Maggs as RAP says was at Brands 5.8.63 in 2.5ltr car, and so was Coundley/de Selincourt in 2.75 ltr car

Brands 6.10.63 Pendleton in Lotus Climax in over 1200cc class in Guards Trophy, 3rd in class after 3rd in practice.

Oulton 11.4.64 JC in Pitt's car, also practised by Pitt, but practice sheets also show Coundley in Lotus Climax, no other details listed for it, 4th and 7th in 2 practice sessions

Race info sheet shows Coundley retired on 3rd lap with loss of oil pressure, but in 3rd place acording to lap sheets.
There was a Guards race at Snetterton the next day so he may have been entered there, but no details to hand.

hope it helps

Roger Lund


Roger

Many thanks for the extra info, will input into results sheet!

Michael

#537 Doug Nye

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 17:57

Just to reinvigorate interest in this wonderful Lotus 19 research thread, has there been any mention yet of John Riley's car which he campaigned in New Zealand c. 1966-67ish. He hurt himself in a violent crash with it during the sports car supporting race for one of the NZ GPs, I think, and then reappeared with it the following year with an Oldsmobile V8 installed. Amongst the cars he ran against were such interesting devices as Andy Buchanan's 6.5-litre Elfin 400 and Geoff Mardon's 5.3 Stanton Corvette...

Additionally, the Higgins brothers acquired their Lotus 19 frame - I believe - from a long-term Scottish owner, Charles Maxwell-Smart or Maxwell-Smith??? This was notionally the Innes Ireland Seattle crash car - the Rosebud Lotus-Ferrari V12 - made good.... Maxwell hyphen had - I am told on excellent authority - owned the frame for many years and my informant was (and is) certainly convinced it was right and proper, although it had obviously had "a hard life".

Thoughts?

DCN

#538 David McKinney

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 18:36

Riley's car was not a pukka 19, but a rebodied 18/21 open-wheeler.
The next owner rebodied it again, and as the Gemco-Oldmsobile the car had more success than in Riley's ownership.
It's now back in the UK, restored to the 18/21 state with which it first appeared in Tony Shelly's hands in 1962

#539 Michael Oliver

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 12:08

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Just to reinvigorate interest in this wonderful Lotus 19 research thread, has there been any mention yet of John Riley's car which he campaigned in New Zealand c. 1966-67ish. He hurt himself in a violent crash with it during the sports car supporting race for one of the NZ GPs, I think, and then reappeared with it the following year with an Oldsmobile V8 installed. Amongst the cars he ran against were such interesting devices as Andy Buchanan's 6.5-litre Elfin 400 and Geoff Mardon's 5.3 Stanton Corvette...

Additionally, the Higgins brothers acquired their Lotus 19 frame - I believe - from a long-term Scottish owner, Charles Maxwell-Smart or Maxwell-Smith??? This was notionally the Innes Ireland Seattle crash car - the Rosebud Lotus-Ferrari V12 - made good.... Maxwell hyphen had - I am told on excellent authority - owned the frame for many years and my informant was (and is) certainly convinced it was right and proper, although it had obviously had "a hard life".

Thoughts?

DCN


Doug

Thanks for re-invigorating the thread!

You mention the Higgins Bros 19: do you have any idea whether this was the discarded chassis after the Seattle crash, implying that Jock Ross rebuilt the car around a new chassis, or whether the Seattle chassis was repaired and therefore that this is the car which appeared the following year at Nassau etc., entered by Rosebud? Would be most interesting to find out more about this Maxwell-xxxx chap... I had no idea about him, I (mistakenly) thought that the Higgins bros bought their car at an auction in the US but it seems as if it would have been in the UK - any idea when?

Michael

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#540 CLR

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 17:21

I have a copy of a letter written by Charles Smith- Maxwell dated Dec 1977.
In it, he ask a friend to see if he can locate a FFPF for a Lotus 19 he is trying to buy from someone in Texas. He states in the letter that he had been seeking a 19 for 5 years, and had found one in Texas without an engine.

The Higgins brothers had a photo published in Lotus World of September 1986 showing the ex Team Rosebud, (painted with Victoria High on the drivers door), car as just purchased. It was said the car was imported into the UK in 1978.

The same car?


Kevin Whittle

#541 ovfi

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 17:57

Posted Image

I scanned this picture from an old SCG magazine. This is Dan Gurney in his so-called Lotus 19 'J' in its first race, Daytona 1965. This car had the 966 chassis, 325 C.I. Cobra engine, and was faster than Ferrari 330 P2 and the first Shelby GT40 version(one of them won the race). Gurney led 2/3 of the race, but broke engine (piston melt due to a too lean fuel mixture).
I am curious about the meaning of the 'J' .

#542 CLR

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 10:21

I think Ford entered the 19J as a hare to break the Ferraris, but it lasted and achieved rather more than they expected.
Not sure the J was significant, was this the same time as Ford was developing the J version of the GT40 ? If so it may have been just to confuse the opposition

KWhittle

#543 RA Historian

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 23:55

Was not Dan Gurney's Lotus 19 powered by a Ford V-8 factory built as the 19B referenced earlier in this thread?

#544 David Birchall

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 00:00

The car pictured certainly looks like the car owned by Garry Gimbel in california for many years-he got it from Wayne Linden and it looked very like the photo when Linden raced it in the seventies as the ex Gurney 19B.

#545 ovfi

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 01:40

Dan raced the #966 Lotus 19B with a factory built 289 CID throughout 1964. But, for 1965, he made some kind of agreement with Shelby (both were sponsored by Ford), and his Lotus has been highly modified with a new lower front end (the first sports car to use that configuration), and a new 325 CID Cobra-built experimental engine, besides minor improvements (I don't know where all these modifications were made, nor who was the brain behind). He made 2 races with this configuration and sold the car. In both races (Daytona & Sebring 1965) the car was entered as 'Lotus 19 J - Ford'.
I was wondering if someone here could enlighten about the meaning of the 'J'; maybe CLR is right, if Ford, or Shelby was 'the brain behind'.

#546 RA Historian

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 12:25

Same car, highly modified; perhaps they simply called it the "J" to differentiate from the "B".

#547 Ray Bell

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 13:48

Not for someone who did the mods whose name began with 'J' then?

#548 ovfi

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 19:25

Maybe 'J' is related to Ford J project, or is related to someone who did the mods whose name may began with 'J', or it only means 'Joker' (that was the role the car played for Shelby team). Must be one of these 3 hypothesis or there's more?

#549 bradbury west

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 20:57

Originally posted by David McKinney
Riley's car was not a pukka 19, but a rebodied 18/21 open-wheeler.
The next owner rebodied it again, and as the Gemco-Oldmsobile the car had more success than in Riley's ownership.
It's now back in the UK, restored to the 18/21 state with which it first appeared in Tony Shelly's hands in 1962


How widespread was this practice of making an 18/21 into a sports racer? My reason for asking is that when I was researching my Lotus 20, and tracing the owners in the US, (back to the day it left the factory) one of the guys said he also had an 18 which he cut down the middle and fitted with copied 19 bodywork, 1964/65-ish. He considered this a normal conversion, more races etc for an older car. This was in mid US. Were they all converted back, chassis plate specials, or are there still rogue cars out there?

Roger Lund

#550 CLR

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 08:02

I have never heard of any widened 18 or 18/21 running as 19's. Interesting thought.

I was in a race shop yesterday that had two original and one replica 19, must be first time three cars together since UDT days !
Kevin Whittle