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Case history: Lotus 19 Monte Carlo


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#751 Allen Brown

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 10:41

Apparently written by some bloke called Michael Oliver. Who's he?

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#752 Michael Oliver

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 09:37

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Apparently written by some bloke called Michael Oliver. Who's he?


Never heard of him :lol:

Meanwhile...there is a guy who has contacted me and also posted on this forum (Owen Gibson) who has an almost complete pair of T37 Colotti boxes which reportedly came off a Lotus 19. The T37 was a late-ish box for the Lotus 19 as it was introduced, I think, around the same time as the Ford GT40, e.g. late 1963/early 1964. Now I am no GT40 expert by ISTR that it first ran with a 289 engine, hence the T37 was a logical box to run with a 289 if you were fitting it to a 'big banger' sports car.

The only 19 I know to have been fitted new with a T37 was Gurney's 966 but the serial number does not match. This was collected from the works in October 1963.

Other 19s which had Ford engines that I can think of OTTOMH were

J. Frank Harrison - 954 (Sept 63 - Harrison Spl)
Norm Namerow - 963 (Oct 63)
Dean/Dave Causey - 958 (late 1964/early 1965)
Lew Florence - 955 (one outing in Oct 1965)

Can anyone help with information about the gearboxes/transaxles used on these cars?

When the Causey car was advertised in 1967 the ad said that it had a Huffaker transaxle but that could have been a later development maybe? I don't possess any photos of that car that give me a good view of the box as the bodywork flipped backwards and obscured the box...

Alternatively, can anyone think of any other 19s which ran T37 Colotti boxes in period? What did the Chev-engined cars like Jerry Grant run?

Owen has said that he would either like some assistance with set-up on the boxes (experts on early GT40s, anyone?) or he would be prepared to sell them to someone with a car that ran a T37 in period. It would be really nice if we could identify which 19 ran these boxes and re-unite them again after all these years.

#753 Jerry Entin

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 13:57

Michael:
Based on notes of a conversation with Jerry Grant in 2004, he told me the following:

His Lotus 19 was originally owned by Tom Carstens, acquired by trading a seaplane with Colin Chapman. Edelbrock built its aluminum Buick V8 but Tom had trouble finding a gearbox. After a fall-out with the SCCA Tom sold the incomplete, never-raced car to Jerry Grant. Phil Remington of RAI sold Jerry a Colotti gearbox, which was used throughout his ownership. Grant had to mortgage his house to race the car and used various engines and sponsors over the years: Bardahl, Green Chevy. His chief mechanic was Trevor Harris. According to Grant the main weaknesses of the 19 were its Lotus Elite-type spindles and the gearbox. He sold the car to Jerry Hansen.

As told by Willem Oosthoek

#754 S&M Minis

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 14:20

I posted this picture of the Ford-pwered Causey car (#958) earlier in this thread. It appears to have a BMC gearbox.

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#755 David Birchall

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 15:22

I wonder if the Colotti T37 I acquired on the weekend is from a Nineteen? It is number 1056 and is painted a billious shade of green. The Carsten/Grant car is known to me and has it's original gearbox as far as I know. Namerow's car lost it's Colotti long ago but that was in Montreal which is thousands of miles from Vancouver....

#756 Peter Morley

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Posted 31 March 2009 - 17:34

Originally posted by David Birchall
I wonder if the Colotti T37 I acquired on the weekend is from a Nineteen? It is number 1056 and is painted a billious shade of green. The Carsten/Grant car is known to me and has it's original gearbox as far as I know. Namerow's car lost it's Colotti long ago but that was in Montreal which is thousands of miles from Vancouver....


Apparently Colotti used some weird green paint for shipping the T37 gearboxes, the one I had was also green and had only ever been bench tested - when I collected it the previous owner said (in an authoritative manner!) that's Colotti shipping paint.

#757 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 03:55

Originally posted by Michael Oliver
Lew Florence - 955 (one outing in Oct 1965)

Can anyone help with information about the gearboxes/transaxles used on these cars?


Just on the phone with Ron Watts, Lew Florence's mechanic. They got Lotus 19 (955) minus engine, which apparently had gone to Gerry Bruihl. He confirms they ran the Ford engine (289) first and then the Chev (327). He said the Lotus 19 came with a Colotti 5-speed which they tried with the Ford, but it didn't work well. So with the Chev, they tried something else. He said the second gearbox was built in California, but couldn't remember the name of who built it. He described it as a 4-speed Borg-Warner T10 coupled with a Halibrand.

Ron said they are thinking about coming to our Westwood reunion in July. If he does, he will see the ex-Lew Florence Genie Mk 10 being restored by Adrian Ratcliff, and hopefully at least one more of Lew's old cars!

Vince H.

#758 Michael Oliver

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 08:44

Originally posted by David Birchall
I wonder if the Colotti T37 I acquired on the weekend is from a Nineteen? It is number 1056 and is painted a billious shade of green. The Carsten/Grant car is known to me and has it's original gearbox as far as I know. Namerow's car lost it's Colotti long ago but that was in Montreal which is thousands of miles from Vancouver....


The Carstens/Grant car Colotti would have been a T29 anyway, wouldn't it? I was going to say that it looks like your T37 is a later number. I don't know why, but I had assumed they started at 1001 (late 1963) but having realised that they were used on the Lotus 29 Indy car, which raced in May 1963 and was built considerably before that, I would seem to be way off...

On the subject of the Carstens/Grant car, I would be very interested to hear if anyone can add to the ownership history of this car, which I have only been able to confirm (e.g. by speaking to the owners) up to Bob Figenskau, who bought the car in 1968 and thinks he sold it to persons unknown in 1970/71. Big gap then until Terry Buffum-restored car appears (can anyone confirm when this was?) as owned and raced now by David Smith.

#759 Michael Oliver

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 08:53

Originally posted by raceannouncer2003


Just on the phone with Ron Watts, Lew Florence's mechanic. They got Lotus 19 (955) minus engine, which apparently had gone to Gerry Bruihl. He confirms they ran the Ford engine (289) first and then the Chev (327). He said the Lotus 19 came with a Colotti 5-speed which they tried with the Ford, but it didn't work well. So with the Chev, they tried something else. He said the second gearbox was built in California, but couldn't remember the name of who built it. He described it as a 4-speed Borg-Warner T10 coupled with a Halibrand.

Ron said they are thinking about coming to our Westwood reunion in July. If he does, he will see the ex-Lew Florence Genie Mk 10 being restored by Adrian Ratcliff, and hopefully at least one more of Lew's old cars!

Vince H.


Great info as always, Vince! So from that, it would appear that it was a Type 29 box, as that was a 5-speed, I believe? The Type 37 was a 4-speed box. Have just read up a bit more and, I should have remembered, the Type 37 was first used on the Type 29 Lotus Indy car in 1963, so appeared a little earlier than I had thought...

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#760 Michael Oliver

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 08:59

Originally posted by S&M Minis
I posted this picture of the Ford-pwered Causey car (#958) earlier in this thread. It appears to have a BMC gearbox.

Posted Image


Randy, thanks! Huffaker and BMC were linked in some way, weren't they? It was certainly advertised as having a Huffaker transaxle in 1967, anyway.

#761 Michael Oliver

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 09:01

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
Michael:
Based on notes of a conversation with Jerry Grant in 2004, he told me the following:

His Lotus 19 was originally owned by Tom Carstens, acquired by trading a seaplane with Colin Chapman. Edelbrock built its aluminum Buick V8 but Tom had trouble finding a gearbox. After a fall-out with the SCCA Tom sold the incomplete, never-raced car to Jerry Grant. Phil Remington of RAI sold Jerry a Colotti gearbox, which was used throughout his ownership. Grant had to mortgage his house to race the car and used various engines and sponsors over the years: Bardahl, Green Chevy. His chief mechanic was Trevor Harris. According to Grant the main weaknesses of the 19 were its Lotus Elite-type spindles and the gearbox. He sold the car to Jerry Hansen.

As told by Willem Oosthoek


Jerry/Willem, thanks for the info. So, looking at the timings, this would have been a 5-speed Type 29 box then?

#762 Michael Oliver

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 09:04

From these replies, it would seem to have narrowed it down to either the J. Frank Harrison Harrison Special or the Norm Namerow car - does anyone have any knowledge as to whether these cars ran 4- or 5-speed boxes?

The Colotti on the Namerow car presumably would have been removed when the McKee transaxle was fitted at the time it was rebuilt and rebodied for Peter Lerch by Bob McKee. I remember David Birchall saying that Bob had kept all the suspension and uprights he removed, don't suppose you remember anything about a Colotti box David?!

#763 S&M Minis

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 14:19

Michael,

BMC (actually BMCD, British Motor Car Distributors) was the parent company operated by Kjell Qvale in San Francisco that produced the transaxles, the Genie sportsracers, a series of F-Jr cars, etc. Joe Huffaker was the main man (for lack of finding an official title) within the BMCD racing department. At some point Huffaker transitioned to his own business. The transaxles are probably more commonly referred to as Huffaker's nowadays. For anyone interested there are two very good articles on Qvale and BMCD in the February 1964 R&T. Also very good articles on the BMC transaxle and the McKee transaxle in SCG's of the same period. But that's neither Lotus 19 or Colotti specific . . .

Regards,

#764 David Birchall

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Posted 01 April 2009 - 15:14

Originally posted by Michael Oliver
From these replies, it would seem to have narrowed it down to either the J. Frank Harrison Harrison Special or the Norm Namerow car - does anyone have any knowledge as to whether these cars ran 4- or 5-speed boxes?

The Colotti on the Namerow car presumably would have been removed when the McKee transaxle was fitted at the time it was rebuilt and rebodied for Peter Lerch by Bob McKee. I remember David Birchall saying that Bob had kept all the suspension and uprights he removed, don't suppose you remember anything about a Colotti box David?!


John Maycock retrieved all the suspension parts that McKee had replaced with his own design-McKee had 'put them under the bench". John obtained most of a Colotti from somewhere but I am pretty sure it wasn't the original. I will email him and ask.

#765 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 06:22

Originally posted by Michael Oliver
From these replies, it would seem to have narrowed it down to either the J. Frank Harrison Harrison Special or the Norm Namerow car - does anyone have any knowledge as to whether these cars ran 4- or 5-speed boxes?


You probably have this info, but apparently 963 NOW runs a Hewland FT200 5-speed.

Vince H.

#766 Michael Oliver

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:39

Originally posted by raceannouncer2003


You probably have this info, but apparently 963 NOW runs a Hewland FT200 5-speed.

Vince H.


Yes, it seems that the regulations in North America are somewhat more relaxed than over here - that car would not be able to compete in Europe in its current spec...

#767 David Birchall

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 15:21

John Maycock replied to say he did not know if the Colotti in 963 had been 4 or 5 speed and did not know what happened to the original. He also said that he believed that the car was fitted with a 289 Ford when still owned by Colombosian--did we know that?
We had a response from someone involved in the early history of this car at one point didn't we?

#768 Michael Oliver

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Posted 05 April 2009 - 17:49

Originally posted by David Birchall
John Maycock replied to say he did not know if the Colotti in 963 had been 4 or 5 speed and did not know what happened to the original. He also said that he believed that the car was fitted with a 289 Ford when still owned by Colombosian--did we know that?
We had a response from someone involved in the early history of this car at one point didn't we?


Interesting, thank you David. I interviewed Colombosian a few years back but he did not mention this only that they fitted a Buick engine and that the car had what he described as 'a motorcycle gearbox'! I have always understood that the 289 and Colotti box were fitted by Namerow, after he bought the car. I think this is partly based on the Competition Press report in the October 12th 1963 edition p5 where it states "...and a second Lotus 19, powered by a Cobra engine, assembled only the week before for Norm Namerow."

Since the car had clearly not been assembled the week before, I took this to mean that the engine had been but of course it is open to interpretation...

#769 Sisyphus

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 03:50

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Michael Oliver
[B]From these replies, it would seem to have narrowed it down to either the J. Frank Harrison Harrison Special or the Norm Namerow car - does anyone have any knowledge as to whether these cars ran 4- or 5-speed boxes?

According to the Jerry Titus Sports Car Graphic Dec, 1963 article, the J. Frank Harrison car used a Colotti Type 37, 4 speed.

I believe the Harrison car is currently being restored by Scuderia Rampante--maybe Dave can comment further.

#770 S&M Minis

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 04:55

It wasn't in the discussion, but just to rule it out, the Rosebud Racing Lotus-Ferrari was equipped with a "five-speed Type 34 Colotti gearbox" - according to the February 1964 SCG.

#771 lotus19

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 02:59

Well, the dream is finally starting to take shape! :) I ordered the 19 body from Curtis a few months back and it should be here soon...

I really wanted to get Wobbly look-a-likes, but unfortunately there are none. And since the car will be driven on the street, magnesium wheels just won't work. Anyway, I bought some 15x7 Minilite-style wheels (I know, the originals were 5" front and 6.5" rear, but they weren't available).

I really want to keep the vintage look of a taller sidewall, so that's why I didn't opt for a bigger wheel with a low profile tire... Does anyone know what the original diameter was on both front and rear tires? I want to go with a 195 for the front, but not sure of a 60 or 55 series tire. The 60 would give a diameter of 24.21" and the 55 a diameter of 23.44" Haven't decided on the rear yet--either a 215 or 225. What do you guys think?

Joe

Edited by lotus19, 16 May 2009 - 03:02.


#772 CLR

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Posted 16 June 2009 - 18:01

Lee Chapman, (USA), will be pleased to sell you a set of Lotus 19 sized w/webs, available pretty much off the shelf.

My 15 x 6.5 w webs fitted with correct 6.500L section Dunlops measure 27",
Fronts 15 x 5, 500L measure 24.75"

Hope that helps.
Kevin

#773 RJE

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 09:04

John Maycock replied to say he did not know if the Colotti in 963 had been 4 or 5 speed and did not know what happened to the original. He also said that he believed that the car was fitted with a 289 Ford when still owned by Colombosian--did we know that?
We had a response from someone involved in the early history of this car at one point didn't we?


I cannot be 100% sure but at the back of my mind I seem to think 963 had a 4 speed in it when I worked on it in the mid 60's when Norm Namerow owned it. In that type of racing in those days it was considered that the extra torque that the V8's had did not require a 5 speed and I think I would have remembered if it had.

Bear in mind that during that period the rear engine Sadler run by Danny Shaw in Canada had only one speed and that went quickly enough to win races. The Chaparrals too had only two speeds then, although I accept that these had a fluid torque converter, however once underway that was pretty well locked up.

I am pretty sure that had Namerow considered he required a 5 speed gearbox he would have had one. I think he looked on the 19 as his ultimate and possible final punt at big time racing, which sadly it turned out to be before he reached the car's full potential, as such he would have given it what was needed.

#774 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 11:08

A Norm Namerow anecdote.

I was spectating from Corner #1 at what must have been the Indian Summer Trophy Races at Mosport in September, 1964. (Why this event was so named since 'Indian Summer' typically doesn't occur until much later in the year, I do not know.)

Norm was there in his Lotus 19 with the Ford V-8 making lovely sounds. At one point in the feature, he appeared late and was trailing about 15-20 metres of black cable from the rear of the car. ??? Just dragging on the road behind him. Evidently, he'd gotten off course somewhere and must have snagged a communications link cable, tearing it from the ground. He disappeared from my view over the crest of Corner #2 and almost immediately, yellow flags started waving. He didn't come round again.



#775 David Birchall

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 15:37

I cannot be 100% sure but at the back of my mind I seem to think 963 had a 4 speed in it when I worked on it in the mid 60's when Norm Namerow owned it. In that type of racing in those days it was considered that the extra torque that the V8's had did not require a 5 speed and I think I would have remembered if it had.

Bear in mind that during that period the rear engine Sadler run by Danny Shaw in Canada had only one speed and that went quickly enough to win races. The Chaparrals too had only two speeds then, although I accept that these had a fluid torque converter, however once underway that was pretty well locked up.

I am pretty sure that had Namerow considered he required a 5 speed gearbox he would have had one. I think he looked on the 19 as his ultimate and possible final punt at big time racing, which sadly it turned out to be before he reached the car's full potential, as such he would have given it what was needed.



Right! I have a NOS Colotti T37 4 speed for sale so it really should go into 963 shouldn't it? :) :yawnface:

#776 Ted Walker

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 14:32

Just been talking with my old friend Peter Bloor who told me that he has finally dug out from storage his 19 (Chassis 961 )and sent it down to Dick Crosthwaite to be restored. Peter bought the car in Switzerland a long time ago and its fitted with an alluminium body. By co-incidence in the samr room were owners and drivers of at least 2 other 19s.

#777 Ted Walker

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 07:14

I thought my post re Peter Bloores 19 might have brought forward a response,as its been hidden away for a long time.How many cars had an alluminium body fitted ???

#778 bradbury west

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 08:46

I have not checked the posts for chassis nos, but was it ex Vogele?
Roger Lund

#779 Ted Walker

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 06:41

I beleive it was.

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#780 bradbury west

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 08:02

Ted, thanks. The reason I asked is because I have copies of a race entry and stuff with Vogele in period. Happy to find and scan and send to the owner if he wants it for the car's file
Roger Lund

#781 lotus19

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:27

A bit off topic, but very cool, nonetheless... Got to chat a bit with Stirling Moss yesterday at Laguna Seca. Here's the story:

I was hoping that Dan Gurney would be at Laguna. I can't remember the last time he was there, so I figured it would be a long shot. Anyway, I brought a 1961 Car and Driver mag that featured a road test of the Lotus 19, with Gurney giving rides to the author, as well as an extra plexi headlamp cover from my 19 build. The Porsche usuals were there--Redman and Bell, but no Gurney. No big deal....

But my luck changed when I found out that Moss was driving a Lola Mk1 in the 5th race! I went to his trailer about half an hour before his race and saw him sitting at a lunch table, giving some sort of interview to a guy with a small tape recorder. I didn't want to bug him and thought there was no way in hell I'd even be able yo get close enough to ask. I saw an older lady sitting at the table talking with Moss. She got up and I went over and asked if she was Mrs. Moss. She said yes, and I opened up the Car and Driver mag. It just so happened that there was a spoof story, written by Brock Yates, about Moss being a robot, built as the ultimate driver. I showed her a picture of a very young Moss and asked if she recognized that young fellow. She smiled and said, "Oh my!". I asked her if she thought he would autograph it for me and she said, "Not a problem". After his interview was done we walked over and she told him I had something for him to sign. He laughed when I showed him the article, saying, "That was such a crazy story". After he signed it I pulled out the headlight cover and told him I was building a Lotus 19. He signed that for me, as well. He probably thought I was building a REAL one, because he said, "Your a brave man. I hope the wheels don't fall off!" I laughed, patted him on the back and thanked him.

I was shaking for the next ten minutes or so--I mean, he is STIRLING MOSS!!

Joe

#782 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 11:12

:rotfl:

#783 GuyA.FWI

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 21:16

I thought my post re Peter Bloores 19 might have brought forward a response,as its been hidden away for a long time.How many cars had an alluminium body fitted ???


Hello everybody.

Very interesting topic.

I can tell you #961 was'nt Vögele's car.
It was Harry Zweifel's Lotus 19.

I thought there were only one 19 with aluminium body.
I asked Albert Eggs two weeks ago, but he did not answer.


#784 GuyA.FWI

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 21:24

Something else about this car (#961):

Somebody on this topic wrote that Albert Eggs crashed the car in a non-championship event (Verbois hill climb 1966). It is wrong. Albert told me he sold the car to Edmond Luyet, who crashed the Lotus.

Here are all the results I know about #961

Dr. Harry Zweifel (Switzerland)

2.0 Climax

1961.06.04 … Col de la Faucille hill climb – Harry Zweifel Lotus 19 / Result: 5th
1961.06.18 … Rossfeld hill clmib – Harry Zweifel Lotus 19 / Result: 3rd
1961.06.25 … Mont Ventoux hill climb – Harry Zweifel Lotus 19 Climax / Result: 5th
1961.07.30 … Freiburg hill climb – Harry Zweifel Lotus 19 / Result: 2nd
1961.09.10 … Gaisberg hill climb – Harry Zweifel Lotus 19 / Result: 6th
1961.09.17 … Pontedecimo-Giovi hill climb – Harry Zweifel Lotus 19 / Result: 4th

2.0 & 2.9 Maserati

1962.06.03 … Col de la Faucille hill climb – Harry Zweifel Lotus Maserati / Result: 2nd
1962.06.10 … Fornova Monte Cassio hill climb – Harry Zweifel Lotus Maserati / Result: ?
1962.06.17 … Mont Ventoux hill climb – Harry Zweifel Lotus Maserati / Result: 6th
1962.07.22 … Freiburg hill climb – Harry Zweifel Lotus Maserati / Result: ?
1962.08.25 … Ollon Villars hill climb – Harry Zweifel Lotus Maserati / Result: ?
1963.06.09 … Rossfeld hill climb #22 – Harry Zweifel Lotus Maserati / Result: DNS
1963.08.25 … Ollon Villars hill climb #157 – Harry Zweifel Lotus Maserati / Result: DNS
1963.10.06 … Preis von Tirol – Innsbruck – Harry Zweifel Lotus 19 Maserati / Result: 5th
1964.04.12 … Preis von Wien – Aspen – Harry Zweifel Lotus 19 Maserati / Result: 6th
1964.06.07 … Rossfeld hill climb #6 – Harry Zweifel Lotus 19 Maserati / Result: DNS
1964.10.04 … Preis von Tirol – Innsbruck – Harry Zweifel Lotus 19 Maserati / Result: 4th

1965 winter ----------Albert Eggs (Switzerland) / 2.9 Maserati
……………………… Change engine: 2.0 Maserati
……………………… 2.9 Maserati engine sold to Gachnang. Became 2.5 Maserati
1966 … Verbois hill climb – Albert Eggs
1966 … Monthoux circuit – Albert Eggs
1966 … Lignères circuit – Albert Eggs
1966 … Rochefort-Latourne hill climb – Albert Eggs
1966 … Bôle-Rochefort hill climb – Albert Eggs
1966 … Mitholz-Kandersteg hill climb – Albert Eggs
1966 … Le Châble-Bruson hill climb – Albert Eggs
1966 … Le col du Marchairuz hill climb – Albert Eggs
1966 … St Ursanne-Les Rangiers hill climb – Albert Eggs
1966 … Ollon-Villars hill climb – Albert Eggs
1966 … Payerne slalom – Albert Eggs

1966 autumn --------Sold to Edmond Luyet (Switzerland)
1966 … Verbois hill climb – Edmond Luyet – car crashed

?? -------- Sold to Frank Sbarro

?? -------- England?


#785 Giraffe

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 22:59

:clap: Regarding the UDT Cars, 950 was sold to Terry Buffum USA/ This car is owned by R Brooks./
952 was sold to Team Rosebud, it is owned buy Otto Reidz. 953 was retained buy UTD and raced mainley buy Innes Ireland useing a Colitti box not the Lotus box. This car was sold to George Pitt in sep 1963 he sold the car to Entwistle and walker who sold the car to Harry O`brien. The car was then sold to myself .


Here is a photo of Harry O'Brien in his Lotus 11 at Aintree recently unearthed by his son, Steve and given to me to post today.

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2010-01-20

This 19 that Harry later owned is I believe now owned by Paul Matty. However Steve tells me that Harry had a huge accident in it at Silverstone and it caught fire burning out. Furthermore he tells me that he stood in the wreck when it returned home and deemed it completely unsalvageable...........................

(Post edited on corrective advice received).

Edited by Giraffe, 21 January 2010 - 23:08.


#786 RWB

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 23:07

That Lotus 19 looks more like a Lotus 11?

#787 RogerFrench

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 05:14

Here is a photo of Harry O'Brien in the Lotus 19 at Aintree recently unearthed by his son, Steve and given to me to post today.


Sorry, that isn't a 19! Eleven, maybe.

Edited by RogerFrench, 21 January 2010 - 05:16.


#788 Giraffe

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 08:07

Sorry, that isn't a 19! Eleven, maybe.


I will refer back to Steve O'Brien and amend/delete as necessary. :blush:


#789 Ted Walker

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 08:30

I always thought that the car was burnt to a crisp in a garage fire, and all that remained was the "chassis plate "

#790 Giraffe

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 08:44

I always thought that the car was burnt to a crisp in a garage fire, and all that remained was the "chassis plate "


That's essentially the story that Steve relates Ted, but I appear to have posted a pic of the wrong car! :blush:

#791 Michael Oliver

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 13:57

I always thought that the car was burnt to a crisp in a garage fire, and all that remained was the "chassis plate "

I think you are quite correct in your assessment - it is my belief that whatever exists today has no record of continuous existence as an entity, it can only be a facsimile of the original. I have tried to contact the person who 'rebuilt' it but they have never returned my calls. All it would take would be photos of the car as they acquired it, before they commenced the 'restoration', which I would have thought is standard practice for the avoidance of doubt these days. I note that the same person offers newly built Lotus 19s on his website (or certainly has in the past). I have spoken to several people who recall the fire and there would have been nothing left worth salvaging from it. I seem to remember that the original steering wheel may have survived...not sure where I heard this from though.

Michael

#792 Steve O'Brien

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 16:41

Hi all yes that is an eleven as you all know that was taken sometime in 1960 at Aintree my dad sometimes took me to school in it, should have seen the face's on the kids in school, by the way Micheal the story of the steering wheel came from me as dad had changed the wheel sometime earler
Steve.

Edited by Steve O'Brien, 21 January 2010 - 16:42.


#793 RA Historian

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 16:44

I have tried to contact the person who 'rebuilt' it but they have never returned my calls.
Michael

Should we be surprised?
Tom

#794 Steve O'Brien

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 17:04

As regards to only the chassis plate remaining I very much doubt that it did, if the fire could melt brake calipers can not see how a bit of alloy could
Steve.

Edited by Steve O'Brien, 21 January 2010 - 17:05.


#795 Alan Cox

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 17:31

As an aside, Michael, is a Lotus 19 book in the offing?

#796 Ted Walker

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 08:13

Yes do come on Michael !!!!! Youve had those photos for months now

#797 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 04:55

There are a couple of good colour photos of Peter Lerch's Lotus 19 (McKee?) at Harewood Acres, 1965, in the latest edition of the Vintage Automobile Racing Association of Canada bulletin. Here is the link (see pp. 17 and 20):

http://www.varac.ca/...anuary_2010.pdf

Vince H.

#798 RA Historian

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 15:52

There are a couple of good colour photos of Peter Lerch's Lotus 19 (McKee?) at Harewood Acres, 1965, in the latest edition of the Vintage Automobile Racing Association of Canada bulletin. Here is the link (see pp. 17 and 20):

http://www.varac.ca/...anuary_2010.pdf

Vince H.

OT, but interesting to see that the first Chaparral 1 is now going to be in the Canadian Heritage Racing Museum. Where exactly is this located? I may have skipped over the article too quickly to get a location. I wonder if Boxstrom is going to bring the car out every now and then to exercise it?

Re the Lotus 19 pictured in the article. This is the same car that was at the Road America Historics in 2004 and 2005, then owned by the late Frank Jellinek. The car by now is very much a "gearshift" job, i.e., a car built around the surviving gearshift knob of the original car but claiming to be the original car. When I inquired as to the history of this car I was told by them that it was the "Dan Gurney" car. I immediately pointed out to them that this is not possible, that the Gurney 19 is still owned by Frank Arciero and is in California. They insisted that it was the Gurney car and after a minute or so of escalating conversation I beat a retreat before it came to blows. I guess that one cannot argue with ignorance, arrogance, or the outright fraudulent.
Tom

#799 David Birchall

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 16:08

Surprising given that the history went with the car and was well documented-the car does have a continuous history even though most of it has been replaced as Tom says.

The cover picture used in the VARAC bulletin was originally a cover photo on "Track and Traffic" - sometimes known as "Trash and Tragic"- Canada's own motorsport magazine starting in the late fifties. The second car from the front-the light blue sports racer is my first race car, The Lucas Whitehead Climax Special. It was very competitive with Lotus Elevens and now lives in a collection in the New York area. I bought it through a friend from Don Whitehead, the builder of the car, and who I subsequently worked for.

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#800 bradbury west

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Posted 01 February 2010 - 16:18

my first race car, The Lucas Whitehead Climax Special.


David, didn't we have a photograph of that car on here many moons ago?
Roger Lund